/wg/ writing general +/crit/ criticism general:

[Anonymous No.16543543]

Friday Breakfast Edition
Last thread: >>16522301
Suggested books on story telling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Save the Cat
>Romance the Beat

Suggested books on getting your fucking work done you lazy piece of shit:
>Deep Work
>Atomic Habits
> Other Resources
> General grammar/syntax/editing help
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
> When/where/how should I write?
https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
> What software should I write with?
https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
> Be like Charles Dickens and write serially
https://www.royalroad.com/

When asking for criticism please detail and articulate what feedback you are looking for. Simply posting your content without any engagement in the thread or specifics as to what you are looking for isn't helpful for improving.

[Anonymous No.16543637]

I don't usually write free verse, but seeing that it is the thing that wins literary prizes nowadays I decided to come back to writing it for a while, any feedback is appreciated.


The afternoon wind licked our hair
Like a loyal dog
As we ran in circles
around the house
Our voices
And laughter
Combined in a sort of ambiance
To protect our house from bad omens.

In August we moved
And the house burned down.

We didn't laugh enough.


MARCH 1ST
The icicle I held
In my fist
Melted into a tear
Of indescernible emotion
Was it greeting the coming of life
Or mourning the demise of its kin?


The moon fell from the sky
I swallowed it whole
And made a promise
To keep it safe and dark
In my stomach,
Protect it from
Ruthless tides
Of summer morning

[Anonymous No.16543687]

>>16543637
I don't write free verse so I don't feel like I can give you a proper critique, but I really like it, I read it a few times and think it's great.

[Anonymous No.16543695]

>>16543687
Thanks!

[Anonymous No.16543760]

What is everyone working on today?

[Anonymous No.16543791]

>>16543760
I'm working on a post apocalyptic western book, I'm trying to infuse Metro 2033 and The Road, into a True Grit setting. Looks a bit like Blood Meridian, right now.

[Anonymous No.16543805]

>>16543791
That actually sounds pretty interesting. I'd read it

[Anonymous No.16543886]

>>16543805
The difficult part right now is building a sense of home, despite it being nomadic in nature. I want that feeling of comfort, wanderers that make a cruel environment into a place where they can still find a place to rest, have relationships, laying down besides a fire, as they look up at a full moon that is still, after all this time, enchanting. At the same time, while the world is still incredibly brutal and unforgiving, and so balancing that natural character progression of someone who is exposed to this violence, while keeping the personal dynamics.. is taking me a while. Right now, the group has just been confronted by a gang, modeled after John Joel Glanton / the Glanton Gang

[Anonymous No.16543907]

>>16543886
Metro did what I'm trying to really well.

[Anonymous No.16543933]

>>16543637
I like it! I like the short lines but some of them felt needless, like "around the house", or "and laughter", like am I supposed to ponder on the general concepts of "house" and "laughter" independently because of the line break? The March 1st stanza is phenomenal.

[Anonymous No.16543955]

POPPY FIELD
CHARACTERS: MAN WITH THE FEATHER,
NEXT MAN WITH THE FEATHER, WOMAN
WITH THE FEATHER, JIMI HENDRIX
GHOST, 80 YEAR OLD WOMAN, NEW
MEMBER, STARRY EYED MYSTIC, BOB
DYLAN, GRACE SLICK

There sits a group of 10 people on the lawn of a commune in
south west montana. A large house with 40 people living in
it stands three stories 15,000 square feet up in the
background.
EXT. IN THE GROUP CIRCLE

Man holding a discussion feather
MAN WITH THE FEATHER
I really appreciate the good work
each of us are sharing. I'd propose
we visit the local hot spring to
celebrate the completion of the Boat/
dragon/art/refrigerator we built for
burning man!
Man with the feather passes the feather

NEXT MAN WITH THE FEATHER
we have a problem.. the funds we used
for making the burning man vessel
doesn't allow all of us to get
tickets for the occasion.
Woman raises hand, followed by a brief pause and the feather
arriving.

WOMAN WITH THE FEATHER
i suggest none of us go this year if
one of us cannot.
Woman passes feather
JIMI HENDRIX'S GHOST

[Anonymous No.16543959]

>>16543955
JIMI HENDRIX'S GHOST (cont'd)
I swear I love watching beauty burn, but I give up my ticket for you
all. Im invisible anyways, I cant
physically hold tickets or feathers.
Someone grabs the falling feather

POV SHIFTS
Sits an old Indian woman, already having feathers in her
headdress pulls one out

80 YEAR OLD INDIAN WOMAN
My old bones cant go on for so long.
I don't want to occupy a space when
another will occupy a rich spread of
youthful joy!
Puts feather back into headdress
POV MOVES TO THE LEFT
man with pleated pants and a polo starts across the lawn
sounding annoying and loud

NEW MEMBER
Hi guys! Mind if I join in!?
Looks of sympathy and pity, (Indian woman nods)
the new member starts to talk but is grunted by the circle
to stop.
Feather passes to the new member
NEW MEMBER (cont'd)

Yeah I was told about burning man and
I think I would like to go. I have
enough to buy for a few of us if
that's an issue.
looks of moral conflict, (Indian woman shakes head no)
the new member keeps on talking while in the background
approaches a light purple shimmering light.

[Anonymous No.16543964]

pretending all the strength protected
the pensive ways of your chattering lips,
sideways, I could see how you do,
and performing the eternal ritual.

make way to the back of the row, standing
at the center of a revolution, watching
the men putt around, drink in hand
shaking, glaring at her open shoulders.

I am lawless in the presence of them,
and the banished seed becomes darkness
at the thought of the way the sun could look.

[Anonymous No.16544022]

>>16543933
You're right. I haven't yet mastered the art of proper line free verse line breaks. I'm also very flattered by your prais. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.16544056]

>>16543959
MAN WITH THE FEATHER
you have contributed to us enough
resources, we appreciate you!
No one notices the approaching mysterious space object for
the longest time. As people from the house start rushing out
to the yard.

CLOSE UP ON THE STARRY EYED MYSTIC
STARRY EYED MYSTIC
This isn't the acid or a mugwort
dream. This is a messenger. Whew! I I
knew we'd all make it to burning
man!!
In a strong wind and a bright flash appears a floating
triangle about 300 feet in the air. Paul McCartney, Bob
Dylan and Grace Slick from Jefferson Airplane descend from a
conveyer belt. Bob Dylan walks over to the mystic.

BOB DYLAN
I saw as it seems, in a dream next to
a telephone.. you shown, me, you need
three tickets. And I say oh wow like
we have enough trees too please them
all.. then I notice a sprawl bigger
than the mall so I turn off breaking
good, to investigate..
Bob then hands over 7 tickets
All the while the crowd of people cheer and start dancing.

4 MONTHS LATER
INT. TRIANGLE SPACE CRAFT
Grace Slick stands at the helm. Hoards of hippies buckled in
theater style seats
GRACE
W-a-a-rp SSppe-e-e-e-e-ddd!!!!
FADE OUT

How is the pacing?

[Anonymous No.16544109]

>>16543760
Working on my web serial but I'm so damn tired.

[Anonymous No.16544240]

>>16544109
I've felt the same all week. I have maybe 3 hours of work left on my next chapter, but I haven't been able to sit down and write yet

[Anonymous No.16544263]

Does anyone struggle with having too many filters that stop them from writing 99% of what's in their head? Everyone who I've described this to gets it, but their response is always something like "just let go". I haven't been in a writing flow state for what feels like years.

[Anonymous No.16544279]

>>16544240
My insomnia is the #1 killer of all things productive in my life.
I've been trying to write in 3 minute sprints but even that is a struggle.

[Anonymous No.16544293]

>>16544279
Yeah I completely understand that. I have pretty bad restless leg syndrome, and the meds I take for it don't work well anymore, so going to sleep every night is a fight against my own body

[Anonymous No.16544315]

>>16544293
>restless leg syndrome
That sucks to hear. I didn't know that was a thing.

[Anonymous No.16544337]

>>16544315
Yep. Having an incurable condition really sucks, but there are worse things that I could have, so it's not too bad I guess. It also doesn't help that I'm violently allergic to some of the best meds for it

[Anonymous No.16544364]

>>16544337
Embrace the dark broody author vibe.

[Anonymous No.16544513]

If anyone has any critique or suggestions for burgerpunk: pizza time let me know.

[Anonymous No.16544959]

Is there a point of writing novels if you're just starting out? Why not just do short stories? They're read much more often (willing to take a chance on you) and you can actually send them in to be published to websites.

[Anonymous No.16545141]

>>16543760
Wheel of Time abridgement. Input that last three books into Scrivener, which has been immensely helpful in terms of moving PoVs around more fluidly than my previous excel sheet had permitted. Sanderson wrote many short PoVs in chapters as opposed to the longer stretches of single-PoV that Jordan preferred. So I've had to shift a lot more than usual.

Just finished chopping a scene down from 6,918 --> 1,607 words. Pretty good.

[Anonymous No.16545187]

>>16545141
You're not worried about pacing issues? Was there that much fat on it?

[Anonymous No.16545257]

Does the common reader actually give a fuck about minor inconsistencies? I find that I spend 30% of my time making everything logical, and I feel like I'm the only person who this actually effects.

[Anonymous No.16545264]

>>16544263
Everyone has this problem. The solution isn't to just let go, it's just indicative of a lack of experience. If you can't easily express your feelings it means you're lacking experience in both reading and writing. You'll also just need to accept that this isn't poetry, it's just prose. The bulk of your effort should revolve around setting, plot, and characters.

[Anonymous No.16545273]

>>16545141
Was the original scene that bloated? Cutting it down to 20% of what it was seems to be a bit extreme, unless you just write 3000 words an hour, and just separate the fat from the muscle.

[Anonymous No.16545330]

>>16544959
>Is there a point of writing novels if you're just starting out? Why not just do short stories?
They're both going to be shit, and they're both equivalent in that they will both give you experience. That's the point. I'm tired of people thinking, "You can't do this until you're good" and "You can't do that until you're good." Just fucking do it dude. If you think whatever you did is worth sending in, fucking send it in. You're only going to kneecap yourself by overthinking this shit as an absolute beginner.

It's like people on /ic/ trying to sketch still lives and hammer in anatomy as absolute beginners because someone told them it's the correct way to do it, except they forgot the crucial part that if you're not fucking enjoying it, you're not going to stick with it. No human being has enough willpower to force themselves to consistently do things they don't enjoy.

[Anonymous No.16545368]

>>16545257
No, but I do, and that's enough for me

[Anonymous No.16545693]

>>16545273
This particular scene was yes, but it varies by scene f'sure.

[Anonymous No.16545743]

>>16543543
Could I get some feedback on the outline for my story? It's only 2.5 pages.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tbDrWH3HiUaebeAYaladnV1O8f7ZFvUk3r20pxT97lY/edit

How does it feel to you structurally?
Notice any flaws?
Areas you feel might need more clarity when I go over the screenplay again?

It's for a comic/manga. This would be the 4th draft more or less. I've redone the script a few times. If you want to read the screenplay, maybe done this Sunday. The comic manuscript... probably Sunday too. About 50% of it is done from previous edits.

[Anonymous No.16545749]

>>16544056
>>16543959
>>16543955
Could you post this in a doc file or something?

[Anonymous No.16545767]

When creating a fantasy/science fiction story, is it best to build the world and then figure out the best plot that could take place in it, or would it be better to decide on a plot you wanna tell and create the world that would best support it?

[Anonymous No.16545797]

I deemed it right,
To chase my sorrow,
To twist my fate,
To test my might.

To shun all reason,
(my careless slight)
To see my end,
To taste my blight.

To what I saw,
I can recall,
Summer snows,
And sprouts in fall.

Mountains blowing,
In the breeze.
Anything,
If you please.

Sleepless nights,
Countless tears,
Plagued was I,
By nasty fears.

Yet what was had,
Was not unrest,
But love for you,
And all things best.

How do I improve this? I don't usually write but I was inspired to write something about embracing your feelings even though it hurts.

[Anonymous No.16545830]

>>16544056
Do you want me to be brutally honest?

I had a hard time following it, partially cause of formatting, which I hate to be a stickler about, but also because you introduce too many characters at once it’s hard to keep track of what’s happening. You asked about pacing though, so lets focus on that... ok, what’s the story ACTUALLY about? From what I gathered, a group of people sit around in a corcle and talk about how they don’t have tickets for burning man, and then a bunch of musicians show up in a space ship and give them the tickets? I’m confused overall, as I don’t have a main character to anchor me into the story, there’s just a bunch of stuff happening everywhere, it feels almost like a lucid dream and it struggles to effectively capture me. It’s hard to comment on the pacing, in short, I’d say it’s not good, because I don’t have a clear idea of what’s going on, or what anyone wants. People talk in a circle, there’s no conflict, and then something weird happens, and we cut.

My advice would be to try and think of a POV character with a distinct want, and start from there. It’s difficult to give any other advice though, as I find it hard to follow this story. Unknown people I don’t care about talk about unrelatable things for a while, and then something happens. This isn’t exactly a story, but it feels more like a weird dream.

[Anonymous No.16545858]

>>16543760
I'm just finishing the final draft of a satirical novel about a 19th century industrialist who reads Plato's Republic and decides to start a colony in the Brazilian rainforest organized according to his superficial understanding of Plato's ideal society.

[Anonymous No.16545859]

>>16545767
No. Write the story first with a vague idea for what the world is supposed to be, as you write you’ll run into areas where you’ll realize you’ll need to do more worldbuilding to effectively progress. That’s when you worldbuild, but make sure you stay FOCUSED on what you need, and don’t waste time on stuff unrelated to your story. Keep doing this over and over, accumulating more of this world through the needs of your story, and once you’ve got a sizeable chunk done, that’s when you step back and can flesh out more things within itself. Just make sure you don’t let it distract you.

Worldbuilding can be a massive trap that can prevent you from actually writing the story. Be wary of this. The readers don’t actually give a fuck about how unique your world is. This isn’t DnD or a videogame. They care about how the world relates to and interacts with your characters. So start with your characters and story. World is the last of the 4 pillars you construct.

[Anonymous No.16545919]

>>16545743
>she gets sent in a carriage
why, is she rich?
>but she came of her own accord
how did she know to come, did she intercept the letter and not give it to OZ? why? Bernhardt would be pissed I'd imagine.
>treats her well because of his daughter
how about he treats her like a in over her head moron and you cut the dead daughter angle. 15 yr old girl should be sympathetic enough to an older man w/o a dead daughter gumming up the pages
>Bernhardt lives
how about you kill him off, and she still ends up winning, and the point of the whole episode is that Alice let someone die because she thought she was better than she was. she gets 'promoted' but still feels the need to prove herself afterward
>fufu
not sure the angle you're going with this. spirit in thrall? I assume it has motivations other than being a cute sidekick

[Anonymous No.16545990]

Im new to writing. I know that as with anything most of it comes down to practice but as far as theory goes, which storytelling principles should I learn about?

[Anonymous No.16546013]

>>16543543
Cigarettes and coffee isn't breakfast

[Anonymous No.16546023]

>>16546013
Fuck you. It’s what I eat every morning.

[Anonymous No.16546026]

>>16545990
Writting is 80% talent, the only thing you should do is read what you write and make sure it reads well

[Anonymous No.16546033]

Sucking dick is fucking gay
But you fags do it every day
Getting on your shitty site
Making posts full of trite
You've got your heads up your ass
Dilate trannies, you'll never pass

[Anonymous No.16546067]

>>16545919
>why, is she rich?
Friend of Oz’s. Coach has known Alice since she was a young girl too. It’s too dangerous generally to travel around on foot. Since there’s horrific monsters everywhere.
> how did she know to come
She’s been on hunts with Oz together before.
>did she intercept the letter and not give it to OZ?
Yep.
>why?
Because she wants to prove to Oz (and herself) she’s ready to become a witch.
>Bernhardt would be pissed I'd imagine.
He is incredibly pissed.
> how about he treats her like a in over her head moron
He does. And he’s incredibly dismissive of her too. His core want for the story though is still to just get her back to Oz and get Oz to come hunt with him instead.
> 15 yr old girl should be sympathetic enough to an older man
I don’t think so, not in medieval times. But the issue isn’t that, both Alice and BH learn a lesson of sorts by the end. You mentioned killing BH, and I have considered that, but BH acts as the barometer of sorts to measure whether or not Alice truly gained the approval she seeks. He has the most dramatic change in the story. I’ll still keep that in the back of my head, but letting BH die gives the story a different feel. Part of why BH has a dead daughter is cause it justifies his attitude and treatment toward Alice. It’s supposed to be like a parent being overprotective of their child, and not letting them do what they need to. He’s projecting that onto her cause of his personal loss. Additionally, it also works with the mechanics of the monster, since they feed off negative emotions. During the fight Alice believes that perhaps it’s his grief and desire for revenge that power the monster, but in truth, because she’s a witch, her own emotions are amplified, and her own feelings of ineptitude and inadequacy are what’s actually feeding the monster, and why she’s unable to land a single hit. It’s reading her like an open book. It’s Alice’s feelings of not being good enough, that drove her to want to prove herself and do this, and it’s the horror killing BH’s daughter, why he decided to hire Oz to kill it for revenge, rather than just run away like any sane person would.
>fufu
He’s her familiar and general comic relief. He’s a sadistic little shit, and a smartmouth though. He’s also Alice’s means of sensing black mist. There will be other characters eventually, but this is the pilot.

Thanks for the feedback, I’ll keep what you said in mind as I work through the screenplay and manuscript.

[Anonymous No.16546078]

>>16546026
>Writting is 80% talent
Blatantly false.

[Anonymous No.16546085]

>>16546078
Then how much do you think it is?

[Anonymous No.16546093]

>>16546085
Depends on how you choose to define talent.

[Anonymous No.16546106]

STOP recommending people to publish online on isekai SHITHOLES. This is a TRADPUBLISHING threads and posters should be working toward getting an AGENT and then a PUBLISHER.

[Anonymous No.16546145]

>>16546106
What are you referring to exactly?

[Anonymous No.16546236]

>>16543543
is this just for poetry? I've been writing a book and I want to get people's thoughts on it. Kind of on everything. character dynamics, the power system, the pacing and tone(s).

[Anonymous No.16546243]

>>16546078
>>16546085
talent and skill fill the same role. someone can use 80% talent and 20% skill and someone else can use 100% skill and be just as good.

[Anonymous No.16546304]

>>16546106
Why?

>>16546236
No, we have people doing similar stuff too

[Anonymous No.16546356]

>>16546243
Writing is 90% experience. Both in the actual craft and life experience. The other 10% is inspiration.

[Anonymous No.16546371]

>>16546236
>>16546304
then here's a book I'm working on https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xmB1A6P7sVuTQxrKC8wfw53yooHZzqo5M_aU4juRnA4/edit?usp=sharing
it's not finished it's a WIP but still. I worry that the tone is TOO all over the place. But as someone who hardly reads I worry that it's all a mess and I just don't know enough to know it.

[Anonymous No.16546386]

>>16546371
TL;DR pitch: near-future scifi, a meteor hits the earth and unlocks magical powers within the population of a city, three villain factions arise; a gang, an anti-paranormal government agency, and a supernatural race once hidden to humanity. The main character is a normal teenager trying to enjoy his summer while juggling all this crazy shit, and out of all the crazy powerful superpowers, he got the ability to summon a fucking camera.

[Anonymous No.16546387]

>>16543760
A yuri visual novel

[Anonymous No.16546393]

>>16546386
>a meteor hits the earth and unlocks magical powers within the population of a city
Nope. You can't use an earth-like setting and introduce "magical powers" without having a compelling rationale to why they exist. It's shlock.

[Anonymous No.16546415]

>>16546386
also the first two chapters are trash and I need to go back and fix them.

>>16546393
they've always existed in-universe. they were just exceedingly rare. Normally you have to realize your true purpose in the world, or achieve inner peace. Everyone has and always has had a power locked within their soul. this meteor is made of a magical mineral that artificially unlocks this ability within you.

what's the problem with magic in an earth setting though? Like, there's people IRL who claim to be psychic mediums, is having magic in a modern setting really THAT outlandish that it cant be a good story?

[Anonymous No.16546492]

>>16546145
That anon is furious that a few of us have the audacity to post stuff we're working on to sites like Royal Road

[Anonymous No.16546718]

Publishing is a meme. You either copy by hand your book and distribute them to the few worthy people or let it slumber in a industry grade safe for people to discover thousands of years later and hail it as a classic of all time

[Anonymous No.16546759]

How does one write a story with a "philosophical" message without being accused of ripping off a philosopher you've never heard of?
Or am I wasting my time worrying about things like that?

[Anonymous No.16546788]

>>16546759
wasting your time.

[Anonymous No.16546871]

Where can I find an exhaustive list of character functions/roles? Stuff like protagonist, rival, sidekick, antagonist, shadow, love interest, threshold guardian, mentor, tempter, trickster, etc

I don't mind redundancy and overlap, the more the merrier, no need to stick to the few vague ones omnipresent in all stories.

[Anonymous No.16546921]

>>16546871
Tvtropes I guess?

[Anonymous No.16547844]

I'm going to write for nine hours, I'll report back with how much I've written.

[Anonymous No.16548000]

>>16543543
What do you think is a more compelling character arc?
>a coward who finds his courage
>an arrogant who gets put in his place

[Anonymous No.16548011]

>>16548000
Both are perfectly fine as long as they're executed well enough.

[Anonymous No.16548020]

>>16546106
Why is there so much hate for isekai or lirpg? Seems like two random sub-genres

[Anonymous No.16548151]

>>16548011
Sure, but I'm afraid of writing either a passive character or an insufferable asshole, so I guess which of these is better?

[Anonymous No.16548178]

>>16545749
This. Can't stand people clogging up these threads with pages of poetry and weird formats. Just post links. This is why /crit/ died.

[Anonymous No.16548191]

>>16546078
spotted the no talent hack

[Anonymous No.16548235]

>>16548151
Neither is better. Just write whichever one you want to write or makes more sense in your story. We have no context.

[Anonymous No.16548267]

Gimmie the 411 on royalroad. Anybody posting there and to what success?

[Anonymous No.16548271]

>>16548191
I’m not saying talent doesn’t exist. I’m saying talent isn’t necessarily to tell a good story. And sitting around musing over talent isn’t going to help you write better, whether you have talent or not. I’ll say it again, storycraft is like 90% experience.

[Anonymous No.16548304]

>>16543543
>Voluntarily inhaling ash - burned paper, plastic and plant matter into lungs
you are a degenerate.

[Anonymous No.16548459]

>>16548267
Yeah.
I randomly got a patron without really advertising it.
I have gotten 15,000 views over 10 weeks, but my daily averages are increasing every single day. I should be at around 26,000 at the end of this month.
I am posting up the first draft of a series, but I post daily.

[Anonymous No.16548479]

>>16548459
not the first anon but I'm thinking about starting one up today. I started writing up a sci fi novel but I kinda want to go through that route instead, doing a whole piece after doing nothing but short stories and prompts feels a little too jarring. Did you just start posting and get readers? I'm more looking for feedback than following, at least in the short term

[Anonymous No.16548715]

Where is the line drawn between nonsense and art?

[Anonymous No.16548868]

>>16545858
Sounds fun. Do you have an excerpt?

[Anonymous No.16548991]

>>16546386
Reads like a reddit writing prompt, sorry.

[Anonymous No.16549124]

>>16548479
I would say post up and then write in the description that you are looking for feedback. The best thing for feedback is to create or join a writing group.

I posted up on Royal Road because I wanted to write something everyday, and now that I'm 10 weeks in I feel like I don't want to miss even a single day of posting.

[Anonymous No.16549175]

>>16548267
>>16548459
>>16548479
My postmodernist garbage has about 720 total views on it. It's forced me to actually write more consistently. It's only been 15 days since I first posted. I think it scares the little children on the website to read something that isn't a litRPG or very trad scifi/fantasy. Or maybe I'm just cope'n.

[Anonymous No.16549223]

>>16549175
How many chapters have you posted up and how frequently do you post?

[Anonymous No.16549232]

>>16549223
11 chapters. Each about 1k words. Was posting every day but then I kinda had to take the bar exam. Now I'm trying to be back to more normal.

[Anonymous No.16549245]

>>16549232
That's pretty much spot on what I had 15 days in.
The start is always slow. I'm getting about 200 average views per chapter now, but back then it was 50 average views per chapter.

[Anonymous No.16549301]

>>16549175
>>16549232
>>16549124
Thanks anons, I'm gonna go for it, I'll try to do 2k words a pop, I write about twice that a day but it's not very good

[Anonymous No.16549315]

>>16549301
My writing is absolute garbage. I write my first draft and then post it up. Right now I just want to go into the routine of it. As much as I am embarrassed by my writing, it's nothing compared to feeling so useless when I didn't write.

[Anonymous No.16549378]

I'm going to use "sore" as a past participle and there's nothing you can do to stop me

[Anonymous No.16549429]

>>16549378
Absolute mad man!

[Anonymous No.16549510]

>>16548178
Yeah if /crit/ was limited to just prose it would have been better off.

[Anonymous No.16549788]

>>16549378
Past participle of what nigga

[Anonymous No.16549840]

>>16549245
Are you the wushu or logh guy? What genre are you writing on there?

[Anonymous No.16549870]

>>16549840
I don't know who any of those are, sorry. I'm writing a city building isekai.

[Anonymous No.16549883]

>>16549840
Empire building isekai.*

[Anonymous No.16550145]

>>16549870
>>16549883
Gas yourself isekaifag.

[Anonymous No.16550156]

>>16549870
>city building isekai
What does that even mean. Is this what they meant by post post post modernism? I'm confused.

[Anonymous No.16550176]

>>16550156
>>16550145
>>16549883
>>16549870
I just googled this. The only one I'm familiar with is the comic where a young boy becomes Yamcha.

[Anonymous No.16550184]

>>16550156
Guy appears in a new world randomly. He makes a deal with someone and in exchange for helping their people he gets a bunch of powers and gear.

He realises eventually that building an empire is probably the best way of doing that.

So then he goes and tries to do just that whilst trying to deal with a bunch of different cultures, peoples, and also facing other gods and empires in the process of it.

[Anonymous No.16550265]

>>16550156
It's basically video games in written form (of which litRPG is an extreme form) or to look at it another way, fanfiction for video games. In this case, I'd guess a strategy game like Crusader Kings II.

[Anonymous No.16550288]

>>16550265
Not exactly what I'm writing, but that is a fairly accurate way of describing things.

[Anonymous No.16550294]

The years have fled like eagles
To a dozen different climes,
But we still hear the ringing
Of the unforgotten chimes.

On the hills through campus, faintly
In the town and on the lake,
Like the footbells of a fairy
Would their dying echoes break.

In all the depths and valleys
From the ocean to the shore,
They have run their tunes often
As they have never rung before.

And beyond the high Sierras
Where the patient burros climb,
We have heard the distant ringing.
We have heard the Cornell chimes.

I stop sometimes and listen
To the ponderous, lofty bell,
My thoughts and soul are stirring
Awakened by its spell.

And its minor tones ring sadly
For another's vanished life,
For she remembers those who gave
In painful times of strife.

But their warm hearts speak forever
In a flood of mellow times,
Their voices, small but constant
In the aria of their chimes.

We have passed sometimes quite closely
To the reaper and his scythe,
We have faced the storm and darkness.
We have saved alone the tithe.

And we may have sown the grain with vigor
But we reap with weary hands,
Knotted in our wilting lilies
Tending to infertile lands.

Yet the sun need not be hidden
Nor the stars in trying times,
There is a courage in its music.
There is magic in the chimes.

They uplift the misty curtains
From the wide expanse of years,
They are hands outstretched to help us.
They are eyes that fill with tears.

From the colored fields of summer
To the darkened wintertimes,
Let our hearts be strong and brave.
We have heard the Cornell chimes.

[Anonymous No.16550526]

>1 year ago
>write like 2000 words
>6 months ago
>write another 500
>3 months ago
>write 20 more
I'm never going to be a writer.

[Anonymous No.16550625]

>>16550526
true, why don't you cry about it on a mongolian basket weaving forum instead of actually putting in the effort and writing

[Anonymous No.16550689]

>>16545858
Love this premise. Sounds like a better thought out version of something I tried to write once. Good luck in your publishing!

[Anonymous No.16550746]

>>16547844
How much, neufheures?

[Anonymous No.16550771]

>>16550526
Well, yeah...you can't expect to become something if you don't put in the work required.

[Anonymous No.16550787]

>>16550156
It's a very dumb genre. Theoretically, it could be cool; but people that write it don't put in the work required to learn what went into building a city in whatever time period they're writing in

[Anonymous No.16550819]

>>16550746
I started a little late. I wrote a little over 11,000 words, but it wasn't 9 hours of focused writing.

I feel like I can probably write for another few hours, though my eyes kind of hurt.

[Anonymous No.16550827]

>>16548267
I'm posting my Wuxia novel there. It has been a good experience so far. I haven't been wildly successful yet because my chapters have been kinda infrequent due to being very busy, but I'm almost up to 10 followers now which is a nice feel. I also get some feedback on every chapter, which helps me figure out what I'm doing well or not well

[Anonymous No.16550859]

>haven't felt the rush of enjoying crafting a story or fictional world in years
>progress has slowed to a crawl
>the writing group I started is a struggle to organize weekly meetings for
>bad reactions to my romantic fantasies that slipped into my writing have left me censoring myself out of shame, paranoia and fear of being outed

im not sure how much longer i can keep this up

[Anonymous No.16550983]

>>16550827
I don't really get any feedback. Do you ask for it or do they give it to you without prompting?

[Anonymous No.16551065]

>>16543760
my shitty isekai novel.
I am about 2 chapters away from finishing the first volume.

[Anonymous No.16551067]

>>16550983
I usually get it without asking. Though I did ask for some in my latest chapter, since I was a lot more verbose than usual

[Anonymous No.16551099]

>>16551065
Congrats, man. That's a big achievement regardless of what you're writing. Keep at it

[Anonymous No.16551132]

>>16551065
How many words is it at?

[Anonymous No.16551166]

>>16551067
The current chapter I'm working on is pretty intense, so I might ask it when I post it up in a few days.

[Anonymous No.16551187]

>>16550859
Bad reactions because its poorly written or because of a difference in taste? Honestly I think the real critic are your readers not other writers. That's who you're ultimately writing for right (i.e other than yourself)?

[Anonymous No.16551208]

>>16551067
Not the anon that asked but that's pretty neat. Also I appreciate your comments on my work, anon. Keep up the good work. I'll try to shit out more burger punk soon. I wonder if the way I'm writing too sporadic to get proper feedback. As if I'm just a wild animal people watch to see what it does.

[Anonymous No.16551237]

>>16551132
About 47 k at the moment

[Anonymous No.16551277]

>>16551237
>google docs
What do you about the lag?

[Anonymous No.16551284]

>>16551237
Congratulations.
My chapter averages are way lower. Any tips on managing to average 3000 words per chapter?

[Anonymous No.16551286]

>>16551187
bad reactions because it's nearly exposed parts of myself that don't feel safe showing to anyone. not even a therapist. parts of myself that I would have killed myself over years ago if I didn't think it would hurt people

[Anonymous No.16551310]

>>16551286
What are your romantic fantasies?

[Anonymous No.16551323]

>>16551286
You want to shag kids then?

[Anonymous No.16551339]

>>16551323
I want to never even think about that again for the rest of my fucking life

[Anonymous No.16551371]

>>16551286
I used to torture animals when I was a kid and I put that shit in my writing all the time. How bad can it be?

[Anonymous No.16551384]

>>16551277
Lag? what do you mean I have not noticed any.

[Anonymous No.16551412]

>>16551284
How do you determine when to end a chapter?

[Anonymous No.16551435]

>>16551412
If I get tired and finish it up, or when a scene comes to a fairly natural close, or if I have a really impactful last line.

[Anonymous No.16551438]

>>16543543

Do you give info about the world, or characters, when you need it or introduce it in advance? (Not talking about hinting.)

[Anonymous No.16551451]

>>16551208i
I can start giving some feedback, if you want. I've noticed some misspellings and stuff in your last few chapters

[Anonymous No.16551459]

>>16551438
Infodumps are bad, m'kay?

[Anonymous No.16551488]

>>16551459
I don't understand, I already have made up my mind about it, but I am interested how others handle it

[Anonymous No.16551495]

>>16551435
That's pretty similar to me. It all just depends on how long the scene becomes. I don't think how many words a chapter has is that important, but if you want them longer you could just go more into detail.

[Anonymous No.16551515]

>>16551451
I really should go back and edit these more than a once over.

[Anonymous No.16551520]

>>16551488
If you have to explain the world I would stay away from narrator info dumps. Having the character figure it out naturally is almost always better. If you really have to info dump something, have a side character do it. At least that is how I handle it

[Anonymous No.16551597]

>>16551371
nothing I could say would sound bad to you if you don't have a conscience.

[Anonymous No.16551598]

I'm in a writing class, a portion of the mark is peer feedback and till now it's been all short stories. We have poetry for two weeks and I did not submit anything but still have to give feedback to those who did. I haven't got an idea of what to do with it, never read or wrote poetry. Maybe I can just give a reading impression, but that will also be shallow.

[Anonymous No.16551628]

>>16551597
I'm a megalomaniac, not a psychopath, dickweed. I understand what I'm doing is wrong, I just don't care because it gives me a chemical high.

[Anonymous No.16551637]

>>16551628
the fact that you don't care makes you a psychopath

[Anonymous No.16551640]

>>16551488
Have it be natural. Dialogue is a really good way of doing it, or using another's actions.
A man cuts his palm and shakes another's hand. That's just how people do contracts in this world, coming from the old tradition of creating a blood bond with the other person.
Or perhaps there's a mass of people around a flower field drinking tea, and rather it being a bunch of people chilling out, they are paying their respects to the first emperor who liked to have tea at a flower field, but was the first emperor who united the country against the invaders hundreds of years ago.

[Anonymous No.16551641]

I hate it, I always get excited thinking about writing future scenes from where I'm at. Always like 2-3 or more chapters from where I'm at, too. I mean, its great for getting the plot to move in the direction you want, but I always end up distracted from where I'm currently at.

[Anonymous No.16551646]

>>16551637
You ever jerk off to some really fucked up shit and then close the browser in shame right after you blow your load? It's the same thing.

[Anonymous No.16551651]

>>16545767
Classically it is plot that should come first but do what you want

[Anonymous No.16551677]

>>16551641

This happens to me all the time. I just let it go where it takes me. I had two chapters with I had written a line for to remind me what I wanted to do. I did the first chapter and a bunch of stuff happened. I ended up writing six chapters and still have yet to get to that second chapter that I had outlined. In fact, it's still the second chapter outline since I have another chapter outline to do when I get to writing tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.16551695]

>>16551646
yes I've done that! that's what all this shame and fear and self-hatred are about! you're the one who said you don't care and hurt animals anyway! Fuck, at least with me I never fucking acted on it. Your crimes were your own choice, mine I never even got to choose

[Anonymous No.16551785]

>>16548267
125k words, 12k views over 3-5 month period, and 275 average views that goes up and down at times, and ballooned to over 80 followers recently and a little under 20 favorites. That alone is success in my eyes, especially since the beginning period was rough and I barely had 5k views and scant followers/favorites early on.

[Anonymous No.16551796]

>>16551695
Jacking off to people being hurt still involves people being hurt and promotes the production of porn in which people are hurt. Go and cry about it somewhere else. No sympathy.

[Anonymous No.16551813]

>>16551785
I have 115K words, 15K views over 2.5 months, with 205 average views. 48 followers, 20 favourites and 15 ratings. I started about 10 weeks ago, but I've been posting daily.


I'm doing isekai empire building. What's your genre/what are you writing?

[Anonymous No.16551872]

>>16551813
I'm writing a sci-fi space opera with cute anime girls. Here's a link to it but don't click if you're a schizo spook https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/31062/saga-of-the-cosmic-heroes if that sounds like its a ripoff of LotGH, then that's because it drew inspiration from it (along with Gundam 0079). But I think it has a unique enough identity of its own.

[Anonymous No.16551926]

>>16551384
google docs always lags for me beyond 50+ pages. Or at least takes a long time to load. If it's not lagging for you maybe they fixed it.

[Anonymous No.16551933]

>>16551412
4500-6000 words based on the model of human attention

[Anonymous No.16552066]

>>16551677
>>16551641
You should jot those scene ideas off to the side should the prove useful, but continue forward and let the story goes where it needs to. Often you’ll find that tge story will wanna turn in a different direction than what you may have intended building toward a specific scene. Let it. The ideas you jot down however could either become useful in the future, or can help flesh put similar interactions when you run into them.

[Anonymous No.16552152]

Don't say I never warned you when this thread turns to shit. Isekaifags and Royal Retards don't actually read literature. It's the fate of all modern writing communities to be swarmed by these types, because young writers nowadays just want to write an anime. They have no respect for the art of writing and are just using it as an alternative for what they really want to do.

If you fuckers had any sense you'd tell them to fuck off each time they showed their faces.

[Anonymous No.16552189]

The last two weeks spelled me a massive stimulant-fueled productivity binge. ~30,000 words, extensive rewrites, electrifying new ideas. Now I'm burnt out. I'm staring at the same thing and it's just not happening. It's dead matter, an inert and forsaken thing. I suppose that's the price you have to pay for juicing, but for this project to be feasible in a timely fashion I have to sustain similar output levels in a baseline state. I've had a fair share of dry spells but this one is especially rotten and mean-spirited. I feel robbed.

[Anonymous No.16552200]

>>16552152
speak the speech I pray you.

[Anonymous No.16552260]

>>16552152
>Royal Retards don't actually read literature
I have Finnegans Wake open in one tab right now, and The Remains of the Day in another. Stop projecting.

[Anonymous No.16552406]

>>16552152
They’re the only people actually writing instead of crying about writing being hard. Tough shit.

[Anonymous No.16552442]

>>16552152
What the hell is “isekaifags?”

[Anonymous No.16552471]

>>16543543
Do you follow any process to come up with names for characters? Such as looking for one that hold some sort of etiological significance in accordance to their role or personality, or naming them after another literary character, etc? I find it very hard to find names that feel memorable or clever.

[Anonymous No.16552494]

>>16552471
I use fantasy sounding gibberish.

[Anonymous No.16552507]

>>16552494
I've done that before. My process for naming fantasy characters was
>come up with a term in a fake language
>join it with other fake terms
>think of something we already have in our own languages and have it translate to that.
My issue comes when using real names.

[Anonymous No.16552513]

>>16552260
>Finnegans Wake
Will I ever feel ready to read that? Should I ever want to read it?

[Anonymous No.16552578]

>>16552471
Depends on the story I’m writing. I like to use puns, or make references to other things with names.

For example, in the Alice story, Alice and Oz are named as they are due to Wonderland and the Wizard of Oz. Fufu is named like that cause he always goes Fufufu when he laughs. Edgar is a reference to Edgar Alan Poe. The scarecrows character is called Mr. Hemsworth because “Jack” is overdone, and it’s a joke that cropped up between me and my friend.

For the Martial Arts manga I was writing, the MC was called Onigiri as it was a pun. Oni means demon, and the MC was a demon, and Giri in this particular spelling means duty or obligation, but the joke is that his name is the Japanese word for Rice ball. Nin-Nin was called Nin-Nin cause she’s a ninja catgirl, and always ends her phrases with an enthusiastic “nin-nin!” Neon Knight and Trooper are both references to Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden songs respectively.

In a separate story, Rosenrot was named as such because of the Rammstein song, but it’s also german for “Red Rose.” Which wound up working well thematically with a dark fantasy take on the Little Red Riding Hood tale.

Basically I take something, roll with it, and see what I can extrapolate from it for extra punch.

[Anonymous No.16552582]

>>16552578
Also, if you wanna read Rosenrot to see how that plays out, here:

https://medibang.com/book/dr2008302038161350004309649/view/

[Anonymous No.16552596]

>>16552578
>For the Martial Arts manga I was writing, the MC was called Onigiri as it was a pun. Oni means demon, and the MC was a demon, and Giri in this particular spelling means duty or obligation, but the joke is that his name is the Japanese word for Rice ball. Nin-Nin was called Nin-Nin cause she’s a ninja catgirl, and always ends her phrases with an enthusiastic “nin-nin!” Neon Knight and Trooper are both references to Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden songs respectively.
I think I am too stupid to think of this.

[Anonymous No.16552619]

>>16552471
personally, I'm one of those losers who builds characters around a set of themes or motifs and then chooses names/wordplay related to them (e.g. naming a flying carpet merchant Matt Earhart)

[Anonymous No.16552623]

>>16552152
On one hand I want to encourage people to write, but on the other hand, people who have no ambitions greater than the bottom of the rusted out barrel leading straight to the center of the Earth are fucking cringe.

[Anonymous No.16552644]

>>16552152
I'm starting the short story a week challenge and will be posting my stuff soon.

[Anonymous No.16552664]

>>16552471
I just wait until another character talks to them and whatever comes out of their mouths is generally the name that feels right.

[Anonymous No.16552680]

What differentiates a "substantial" piece of writing from something more superficial that you typically find sold in the stand of an airport? Is it technique, description or a thematic element that differentiates "high brow" from "low brow"?

[Anonymous No.16552686]

>tfw you tried to write a story that takes an extremely controversial stance on a social issue because it affects you directly but chickened out the minute you realized other people would read you and judge you for it

[Anonymous No.16552792]

>>16552680
If you’re concerned with this, then you’re literally never going to make anything of value.

People who wrote good stories never concerned themselves with this petty garbage. They used writing as an outlet for self-expression.

[Anonymous No.16552925]

>>16552513
>'I don't think that the difficulties in reading it are so insurmountable. Certainly any intelligent reader can read and understand it, if he returns to the text again and again. He is setting out on an adventure with words. 'Work in Progress' can satisfy more readers than any other book because it gives them the opportunity to use their own ideas in the reading. Some readers will be interested in the exploration of words, the play of technique, the philological experiment in each poetic unit. Each word has the charm of a living thing and each living thing is plastic.
Joyce himself certainly thinks that you're capable. You don't need to get everything he's going for to enjoy the prose and wordplay. A lot of times I just open the book to a random page and have fun with it

[Anonymous No.16552934]

>>16552680
The line blurs with good writers. Take a classic like Great Expectations. At some points it reads like a thriller. And Dickens is not beneath using all the standard tricks of genre fiction. I think what ultimately elevates it from the dime store rack is a certain sensitivity and care given to every element. Compare the opening of GE:

----

My father’s family name being Pirrip, and my Christian name Philip, my infant tongue could make of both names nothing longer or more explicit than Pip. So, I called myself Pip, and came to be called Pip.

I give Pirrip as my father’s family name, on the authority of his tombstone and my sister — Mrs. Joe Gargery, who married the blacksmith. As I never saw my father or my mother, and never saw any likeness of either of them (for their days were long before the days of photographs), my first fancies regarding what they were like, were unreasonably derived from their tombstones. The shape of the letters on my father’s, gave me an odd idea that he was a square, stout, dark man, with curly black hair. From the character and turn of the inscription, “Also Georgiana Wife of the Above,” I drew a childish conclusion that my mother was freckled and sickly. To five little stone lozenges, each about a foot and a half long, which were arranged in a neat row beside their grave, and were sacred to the memory of five little brothers of mine — who gave up trying to get a living, exceedingly early in that universal struggle — I am indebted for a belief I religiously entertained that they had all been born on their backs with their hands in their trousers—pockets, and had never taken them out in this state of existence.

----

To a Sanderson novel (chosen because a lot of the people in this thread are writing similar fiction):

---

Kalak rounded a rocky stone ridge and stumbled to a stop before the body of a dying thunderclast. The enormous stone beast lay on its side, riblike protrusions from its chest broken and cracked. The monstrosity was vaguely skeletal in shape, with unnaturally long limbs that sprouted from granite shoulders. The eyes were deep red spots on the arrowhead face, as if created by a fire burning deep within the stone. They faded.

Even after all these centuries, seeing a thunderclast up close made Kalak shiver. The beast’s hand was as long as a man was tall. He’d been killed by hands like those before, and it hadn’t been pleasant.

Of course, dying rarely was.

---

Both are bits of description. What jumps out most is the selection of words and images. Sanderson sounds like he phoned it in. Dickens calls baby tombstones "lozenges" and imagines the dead babies as never having taken their hands out of their pockets. There's a real sense of creation with Dicken's passage, like he made something fresh--an image, a sequence of words, an idea--which had never existed before. With Sanderson, everything is stale. Dying was rarely pleasant? Yeah, tell me about it.

[Anonymous No.16552956]

>>16552934
Alright, now let's take a look at a character description from the chad Mervyn Peake to see what really separates highbrow lit from the stuff you posted.
>If ever he had harboured a conscience in his tough narrow breast he had by now dug out and flung away the awkward thing - flung it so far away that were he ever to need it again he could never find it. High-shouldered to a degree little short of malformation, slender and adroit of limb and frame, his eyes close-set and the colour of dried blood, he is climbing the spiral staircase of the soul of Gormenghast, bound for some pinnacle of the itching fancy - some wild, invulnerable eyrie best known to himself; where he can watch the world spread out below him, and shake exultantly his clotted wings

[Anonymous No.16552985]

>>16552623
So far I’ve been using royalroad as a fun excuse to write some silly shit. My actual authorial heart is set on a different project which I would never post on a website like that.

[Anonymous No.16553001]

>>16552956
I won't get into the "my author could beat up your author" pissing match, but you see the same thing I was talking about--the sense of creation or freshness--in that excerpt as well. The clotted wings, the color of dried blood. And of course there's a lot of attention paid to rhythm--"If ever he had harbored", "High shouldered to a degree little short of", "climbing the spiral staircase of the soul of Gormenghast"--compared to Sanderson's clumsy constructions ("rounded a rocky stone ridge and stumbled to a stop", using "stone" twice in one paragraph, etc.).

I don't know, I often feel you can tell if something has substance within the first 2-3 pages. Often within the first paragraph.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.16553014]

Two poems, the first one is a love poem to god the second one is an experiment in trying to induce certain things through aesthetics.

I wish to get drunk with my friend

“ You are the secret fire in my broken heart
Your tender secrets and love to me impart
Whether as Aleph or omega thou art
My intoxication and the star of my chart

This world can’t keep me from you my dearest Love
Come therefore and rest in my heart like a dove
my soul aches my friend, my soul seeks to go above

to the firmament of intoxication
where dwell my lover in annihilation

come drink wine and sing with me my only true friend”


Figments

My son look upon this world
The Colored Gossamer lights
My son do not cry I am with you
Phanes and Phoebus declare
my son, i am absolute, I am anger of tigers
Silk worms eating mulberry
I am the first, I was there,
Cry not, my son I am you
I am the secret of eternity, obscured
The Ancient shadows, hidden sights
This world is born of my care
My skin shines and is so fair
I am the illuminating chromatic cacophony
Flame and iron kill the fairy
My son, cry you with I am
Bow and give to me my share
I am a ghost and my eyes are pearls of great price
For The phantoms make their absence known
Into my eyes none may stare
Cryogen within Mahamay-am
I am the scorned and the adored, I am hated
Seek my honor if you dare
The still lake contains hidden darkness
I glorify they who dare
the dark lake contains hidden treasures
Ma had been merrier than I
ash covers them, in the shadows they moan
they Who endeavor to stare
the dying tree is filled with such hardness
in the valley she anoints her skin with blood
and glory and takes their share
Of my holy face so fair
at once regret and terror shout “remember”
and I return to my children
They earn my love and my care
Marry the Son of Mary; I am
Even in hell I am there”
the valley is full of space and doesn’t change
the heavens are eternal and elixir cures but
the dying tree is filled with such hardness
Phanes and Phoebus declare
Ere Aima’s devouring become I am i
the Mirror shatters and I am freed of i

[Anonymous No.16553023]

>>16553001
The clotted wings line gets me every time. But yeah, you're right. It doesn't take too many paragraphs to figure out what kind of writing you're getting into.

IIRC Sanderson himself has said that he writes like that because people just don't care. Most people reading fantasy aren't looking for quality prose or originality, which is kinda sad, but it is what it is. It annoys me a little bit that he can get away with such elementary writing, but he knows what the market wants

[Anonymous No.16553039]

>be me.
>Essentially write erotica every day.
>Like really write, dumb coomer brain hammering out thousands of words a day, every day, for close to the last 14 years.
>Can type close to 90 wpm one-handed.
>Can't even get past the first page when I try to write non-smut.
Truly I am cursed.

[Anonymous No.16553100]

>>16552686
nobody is interested in /pol/tard discourse anon

[Anonymous No.16553132]

I am drunk and I just want to say these generals have been great and I fucking believe in all of you. Every motherfucker that reads this post. You’re gonna make it. You’re gonna wire shit that’s good. You’re gonna write shit that brings joy and passion to the world.

GAMBATTE, ANONS. I LOVE YOU ALL. KEEP IT UP. DO GREAT THINGS. USE YOUR WORDS.

[Anonymous No.16553137]

>>16552686
>have a character who depicts the struggles of being a disenfranchised, anti-social "incel" male
>counteract the negative responses such a character would garner by having a "strong" female protagonist
Checkmate feminists

[Anonymous No.16553140]

>>16553100
On the contrary, there's a shortage of /pol/core books and an opening market.

[Anonymous No.16553148]

>>16553023
Yeah, I think part of the reason fantasy and sci-fi will remain low brow is because the audience never exposes themselves to actual literature (other than whatever they touch on in their high school literature class). Sanderson, by his own admission, reads nothing but genre fiction. The same is probably true of guys like King, Clancy, Grisham etc. King famously said that he reads a book a week. You think he's reading Tolstoy and Joyce? You write close to what you read.

On the other hand, modern literary writers have a tendency to play around too much with form and write stories that are just boring, meandering and pretentious. So the charge goes both ways. But as you said, it is what it is.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16553355]

>>16553132
:)

[Anonymous No.16553443]

What do you guys think of r/nosleep for aspiring horror writers? Any less soi places to post your work?

[Anonymous No.16553452]

/wg/ has two types of people.

The people that post on royal road.

The people that complain about those that post on royal road.

One of them trains their writing.

One of them trains their criticism.

Is this not why /wg/ and /crit/ has joined together?

[Anonymous No.16553584]

>>16553452
>One of them trains their criticism
People who don’t write don’t give good criticism. Anyone can be a “critic,“ not everyone can be a GOOD critic.

[Anonymous No.16553603]

>>16553584
You can look to any field and know that this is wrong.

[Anonymous No.16553686]

>>16553603
It’s not. I’m an artfag too. People who don’t draw give the worst advice. And I can assure you it’s the same for other technical and creative fields like architecture, film, medicine, engineering, and so on...

Feel free to provide me examples of this not being the case. No, Youtube “film critics” and “anime critics” who failed at building a proper career picking at low hanging fruit, are not valid examples. None of them are actually useful for people trying to build stories. Constructing something is infinitely easier than breaking it down, and if you’d actually create, you’d realize that more often than not, creators are acutely aware of the flaws in their works. Knowing how to fix it is where they key lies. Something critics don’t know how to do.

[Anonymous No.16553808]

>>16553686
There are film critics that do not make films, yet they critique films all the same.
This happens in every field.
There are those that study and critique. Sometimes studying does include creating something, but it's not necessary to critique.
Anyone can watch the latest Star Wars movie and critique it for its horrible pacing, terrible characterization, and whatever other flaws without having made a movie before.

[Anonymous No.16553822]

>>16553686
In reality, performers doubling as critics are a rarity. Which is where the old saw, every critic is a failed artist, comes form. Most criticism is useless anyway. As I see it there are only two ways to improve, or rather two perspectives.

[Anonymous No.16554004]

>>16553808
>yet they critique films all the same
Yes, and most of their criticism os blatantly useless toward anyone making films. Which is why many directors are on record stating their dislike for film critics.
>This happens in every field.
Yes, most fields are full of pseudo-intellectuals who like to pretend they know more than they actually do. Also, provide examples. Don’t just lazily throw out a comment like that.
>There are those that study and critique.
No, there are those that make, and those that don’t. Feedback from people who don’t make is useless for the creative as they lack a fundamental intimate understanding for how something operates.
> Anyone can watch the latest Star Wars movie and critique it for its horrible pacing, terrible characterization, and whatever other flaws without having made a movie before.
Yes, I already cited this example when I mentioned low hanging fruit. Unfortunately, none of the criticism aimed toward it actually states clear examples pf how to properly fix them. And additionally, when the Prequels got the same backlash, all the fanmade treatments were significantly worse than what Lucas made, giving you a clear example of how critics actually know very little about how to tell a good story. It doesn’t take a brilliant or particular mind to recognize something bad or to have an opinion. Additionally, critics often lean too heavily on their subjective tastes to back up why they did or didn’t like something, again, something utterly useless for a creative.

>>16553822
> In reality, performers doubling as critics are a rarity.
Completely the opposite in fact, any creative with experience or actively honing their craft is more often than not, happy to give feedback to other creatives. This is why writer and artist circles exist, and in fact is particularly common among writers, as a common adage among writers is the necessity for GOOD criticism. Notice however, that whenever this is brought up by experts, you’re always told to seek other writers, otherwise the feedback you’ll get won’t actually address the objective flaws in your work.

> Most criticism is useless anyway.
No. It’s actually very important of you actually seek to improve your work and I stated previously why that is. If you don’t believe me, I’ll cite numerous examples of various artists and writers specifying just how important critique is if you actually seek to improve.
>As I see it there are only two ways to improve, or rather two perspectives.
No, there’s only one way to improve, and this goes for all crafts. Make something, find the flaws. Learn from those mistakes. And apply those learned lessons to your next work. Repeat again and again until you’re no longer making rudimentary mistakes.

[Anonymous No.16554007]

>>16554004
tl;dr- critique is actually incredibly important if you want to improve, but feedback from career “critics” and people who don’t create is utterly useless, and the idiots ITT who like to pretentiously jerk themselves off at the idea of being valuable for their input despite lacking experience, should realize they’re not, shut the fuck up, and start creating.

[Anonymous No.16554035]

>>16554007
In short, top paraphrase a quote, when the readers tell you there is something wrong with your story, they are almost always right, and almost always wrong when they tell you what exactly is wrong with it.

[Anonymous No.16554080]

>>16554035
Basically. Anyone can spot when something is wrong, and untrained critics sometimes can’t even do that as they’re too driven by subjective opinion. But more often than not, the creator themselves might also be aware of those problems, however, only someone else with experience in (in this case for example) writing, will be able to tell you how to fix it.

[Anonymous No.16554081]

>>16554004
How about you prove your assertion by giving examples from film critics who have improved a film whilst also making films that made many more times their budget or shall I make another arbritraty number so that when you do come with examples I can say that it doesn't fit my arbritrary whilst also engaging in the same non-specific rhetoric as you?

[Anonymous No.16554094]

>>16554080
Except other writers will complain about the subject you are writing, or the style that you use because it isn't the style that they like, or that your prose is weird because it's not like how they write prose.

Wow, the same criticisms can be given to writers too.

As a chef you probably want a guy with tastebuds that doesn't know how to cook to give you feedback, not a chef that has no tastebud because you can generally figure out yourself from the former what to do to fix your shit.

[Anonymous No.16554098]

I woke up too early :(

I guess today I'll write for more than nine hours. I'll aim for 12 and see how much I concentrate and how much I write.

What are your goals today?

[Anonymous No.16554113]

"ANIME is nOW REAL!" ejaculated God. And at God's ejaculation, His angels descended upon His throne, and gathered in His leftmost palm. From thence He dispatched His angels, to bring forth the best Japanese animators from Hell and from the earth below. With the animators brought forth, their souls joined with that of the universe, a thunderous rushing æther-wind overswept His creation and, coincidentally, Anon's sincerest prayer was answered.
"Anime is real?" squealed Anon, "N-NANI!?"
"YES!" God boomed in answer; the voice of perishing galaxies struggled to sear the words into Anon's battered cumbrain, "I'm tired of the internet atheists criticizing me. Making anime real should finally shut them up."
"But God!" the ever-captious Anon raising a finger, "If anime is real now, how am I still 3D? Hm? How does this room look unchanged?"
God quietened.
"Ha!" Anon giggled cloyingly, "Just as I thought! You can't make anime real, God! You can't even make women without making them traitorous, coal-burning whores! or- or tattooed BVLL dykes!"
Then, soft knocking came at Anon's bedroom door. Swiveling from the ironically-hung Shrek 2 poster through which God had spoken, Anon faced the door, sweatily.
"Anon-kun!" opening the door with a blushing smile was Anon's Mom. And, as Anon's dropped jaw could attest, she had become 2D, hand-drawn, and pant-leakingly gorgeous. "I'm back from Costco with your pepperoni Hot Pockets! :D"
"N-N-NANI!?" Anon squeaked, confusion and arousal marks clashing over his head.
Two hour earlier, Anon's Mom was an average suburban mom, with baggy skin, a slight paunch, regrettable posture; but now that she was an anime character, all those flaws had been left undrawn.
"Also, Anon-kun," Mom with a suggestive tone, "I struck up a conversation with the register girl at Costco.… She's pretty, just out of a relationship and, well, long story short, I gave her your number! ;D"

[Anonymous No.16554120]

>>16554113
Immediately, Anon's vision-tunnel darted toward his smartphone, which displayed a single notification.
The next afternoon, at 23-going-on-24, Anon shaved for his first-ever date. He'd never felt such motivation in his life. Never had potentially dating or fucking a 2D girl excited him. An anime-consumer, and gamer, he basically never left his room as would most other males around the time of their sexual awakening; but, now that anime was real, Anon indulged in the mirror, maybe his day in the sun had arrived.
He would meet the Costco girl, whose name purportedly was Emma, at an Applebee's fifteen minutes by car from Mom's house in the suburbs. Anon HATED Applebee's though. Despised the place. But for once in his life, he swallowed his persnickety revulsion and put on a smile. It was for anime titties after all.…
Mom dropped him off at 6:50 P.M., around ten minutes before Emma said she'd get there.
"I'm LITERALLY sHAKING!" Anon half-ironically posted from his smartphone and with Applebee's Wi-Fi, updating his favorite Inuit throat singing forum, his only friends.
"Nobody cares about your first date you faggot phoneposting virgin. Kill yourself."
The nasty replies raised Anon's already stratospheric heart rate; he was a wreck and he knew it. Sweat all over. Sweaty palms, underarms.
Emma pulled up in her Costco-employee-tier vehicle and stepped out onto the parking lot.
And Anon couldn't believe it. Emma was beautiful. Redheaded, just like Asuka Langley Soryu from Neon Genesis Evangelion, but with an unassuming demeanor, just like Lain from Serial Experiments Lain. Anime eyes, light caucasain skin, barely a nose.
"God," Anon prayed, "Let her be a gamer."
It was 7:05 P.M. when Anon and Emma sat in their Applebee's booth.
"So," the shakiest-ever Anon stuttering and red, "D-Do you like playing v-video gaems?"
Just then God interrupted, freezing time everywhere in the universe outside Anon's mind. "I made anime real for you losers and it wasn't enough? They have to be gamer girls too, huh? Well, forget it. Forget I ever tried pacifying you toddlers, because as soon as I make them gamer grills then next they'll have to be lavender-scented, or trannies."
And God quietened.
For the first time since he'd left Mom's house, Anon looked around. He saw that the Applebee's was filled with bored-looking internet virgins, across from their flawless and sparkling anime dates.
Then a second æther-wind overswept creation, and the internet atheists' dates, along with Emma, reverted to single mothers with niglets hanging off them and tattooed, thousand-cock-stare-havers; and all the virgins vomited at once: punishment from the God of the Universe and Anime, who is also the one true Christian God, fuck Kikes and fuck Mudslimes forever and ever, Amen.

[Anonymous No.16554133]

>>16554098
Yesterday's nine hour word count was 12,300 words.

Today I'm aiming for about 18,000 over twelve hours. If I buckled down pretty hard with little to no distractions, I could probably hit 24,000. My chapter averages are about 1,500 words so about twelve to sixteen chapters.

[Anonymous No.16554139]

>>16554035
Also I should point out, non-writer critics can also often mislead you, again, due to their lack of intimate understanding of story.

They might tell you “this scene is bad, it doesn’t work.” Or “the pacing feels off” not being able to deduce the fact that the reason those are off, for example is because your character motivations simply aren’t clear enough, or you’re lacking conflict in your scenes because your characters don’t have a clear want that moves the story forward and gets challenged, etc... you might have a lot of funny and entertaining scenes that string together, but the story doesn’t move forward because it lacks drama, and adding IN drama just feels forced and melodramatic, because the problem lies significantly deeper than just “the pacing” “the structure” or “the scene.”

You see this a lot if you watch film critics and analysts, review films. They’ll be all like “muh three act structure,” or “muh pacing.” But they’ll miss the point of what actually wrong entirely, and won’t actually think about the structure of the story more critically than what their narrow understanding of film critique allows them too. Additionally too, because they’re amateurs, they’ll often lean TOO HEAVILY on those conventions to judge whether a story is good or not, not understanding structure is merely a narrative tool.

Someone with actual writing experience on the other hand will have already wrestled with those exact problems before, and in the process of untangling the mess of a story web they created, will have learned the true root of those flaws in the past, through experience. Thus, they’ll be able to more easily look at the objective flaws in something, structurally and fundamentally.

It’s not unlike how on /ic/ for example, you’ll see an intermediate artist post for feedback, and all the rookies will jump in with useless advice citing “muh anatomy” or “Loomis” whereas a more experienced artist can point out and say, no your perspective is off, do this, try this, and the way you’re reflecting shadows off of this is creating this weird tangent, try changing this instead.

Inexperienced creatives can only reach for surface-level feedback due to their narrow understanding, and more often than not it can do more harm than good, and just lead to a lot of frustration.

[Anonymous No.16554173]

>>16554081
I don’t know what you’re trying to argue here. It sounds like you just wanna argue for the sake of argument. My point is simple. Feedback from career critics is useless to creatives as they don’t actually tell them how to properly fix things. And this is clear for any creative who’s ever turned to inexperienced critics for feedback before. If you don’t agree, then it’s clear you don’t have much experience, and thus, we’ve got nothing to argue here. You’re merely seeking to satisfy your ego.

>>16554094
Writing isn’t cooking. Please don’t make food analogies, nor resort to that overplayed comparison. You’re not being clever.

You’re also not an expert chef. You're an amateur writer with very little professional experience, and likely no training. Chefs go through years of rigorous training under master chefs in order to hone their skills before they turn to the masses. Someone with “good taste buds” has no means of telling an amateur cook how to make chef-level cooking. So my point still stands, and your shitty analogy did nothing but waste both our time since you failed to address the years of career training people go through as apprentices in order to become chefs.

[Anonymous No.16554185]

>>16554173
>as apprentices in order to become chefs.
Not critics? Yes, that's my point.

[Anonymous No.16554201]

>>16554185
>that’s my point
What’s your point? You’re being very obtuse.

[Anonymous No.16554209]

>>16554201
>obtuse

[Anonymous No.16554213]

>>16554209
Yes, obtuse.

Annoyingly difficult and slow to understand.

[Anonymous No.16554214]

>>16543543
>https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
aside from this how do you guys plan your writing routines to stay consistent?

[Anonymous No.16554222]

>>16554214
I co-write it with my friend, and we schedule skype meetings the same days every week at the same time.

[Anonymous No.16554232]

>>16554222
oh that's not a bad idea.
My friends don't write however haha, but I like a dedicated time slot. I find that when I tried that and you hit a wall, it feels like wasting time and guilt builds over not being able to produce for the allotted time

[Anonymous No.16554240]

poem i make

[Anonymous No.16554246]

>>16554214
I have a word goal in mind. We'll say 2,000 words. I can write that in about 40 minutes if I'm in the flow. I don't get into the flow often because I have really bad ADHD and there's so many things I want to do. So I put a timer on for 5 minutes and then write as much as I possibly can, usually about 300-400 words. I may take a break after. I do this about 5-8 times and then I'm done for the day.

If I do manage to get a flow, I put the timer on for longer and try to get back to work as quickly as I can and then after a couple of minutes I'm back into the flow. I try and keep nothing up but the writing program, which covers the timer so I don't get distracted by it.

[Anonymous No.16554255]

>>16554246
>if I'm in the flow. I don't get into the flow often because I have really bad ADHD and there's so many things I want to do
Ah the flow is a great feeling when you're in it, but I relate to the distraction from so many things. That's a tricky devil to beat

[Anonymous No.16554278]

>>16554213
Why is the pot calling the kettle black?

[Anonymous No.16554341]

>>16554278
You’re not stating a clear argument. You’re just arguing for the sake of argument. As evidenced by this post. Something tells me you don’t write and what I wrote hit a little close to home. The fact that you can only rely on tired analogies and overused idioms to string together some sort of snarky “gotcha” response, only serves to prove that point.

Your investment in this whole thing feels emotional. Like you have something to prove by winning some internet battle. I merely stated things as it is, as I see it and understand it. This thread isn’t my only source of feedback, I simply said what I said for the benefit of other writers. If you want me to clap and pat you in the back and say “yes, don’t worry. Career critics actually hold a lot of value for creatives” in order to make you feel better, I could lie and do just that, but I won’t, because that’d be neither helping you nor anyone else here. Find better ways to find value in yourself than your opinions. You’re not as clever as you think you are.

[Anonymous No.16554357]

>>16552152
They're the only people actually writing.

[Anonymous No.16554401]

>>16546106
Holy Based

[Anonymous No.16554429]

>>16546371
Well it’s terribly amateur but there’s some breadth to your practice at least. I’d definitely suggest reading more to get an idea of the standard to which readers might be holding you, it reads like fanfic.

Don’t stop though you have clearly put the effort in.

[Anonymous No.16554539]

>>16546371
I really hate the tonality of it. Your prose reaches for the image of a very specific kind of "eccentricity" that isn't actually genuinely eccentric. It reads manic, but not in a compelling way. It's like the prosaic form of a s*y wojak.

[Anonymous No.16554591]

I always question best integrate my writing into my schedule, and if I'm doing enough.
I also have to study for college, exercise daily and read, which aside from being fun, is a necessity for anyone who wishes to become an author. I'm always in doubt as to how to handle all this stuff at once. How do you guys manage?

[Anonymous No.16554593]

>>16554539
>It's like the prosaic form of a s*y wojak.
Jesus Christ

[Anonymous No.16554633]

>>16554591
How long do you spend exercising, and how long on reading?

[Anonymous No.16554672]

>>16554633
I tend to work out for a minimum of 45 minutes, and a maximum of 1 and a half hours, depending on that day's routine.
For reading I try to spend at the very least 1 daily hour, sometimes more, some times less.

[Anonymous No.16554694]

>>16554672
If you reduce your working out to an hour daily, then you'll have about half an hour to write. Half an hour of daily writing is pretty solid.
Have a sentence planned out for the scene, put a timer on and then write until the timer ends. Then write a sentence down for tomorrow's scene and you're done for the day.

[Anonymous No.16554707]

>>16554694
I guess that every little bit of writing helps. I tend to see people talking about spending from 2 to 9 hours writing and I feel that I'm never gonna make it. But if 30 minutes a day is pretty solid, then I'll take some solace in that.

[Anonymous No.16554737]

>>16554707
Depending on how much you write, 30 minutes a day is a lot of writing. If you get into the flow of things, that could be upwards of 1000 words a day.

Even if you wrote 500 words a day. If you took a day off for every week, and then a few more for holidays throughout the year, you could still write 150,000 words a year.

[Anonymous No.16554783]

I dont write but i paint and im stuck. It seems im only capable of completely hiding whatever im interested in and making boring shit.
What should i do?

[Anonymous No.16554802]

>>16552934
I think there needs to be more explanation than "Sanderson looks like he's phoned it in."
Nothing is learned fromt hat statement.
To my eyes, Sanderson's bit is neccisaeily workmanlike. In all honesty, he's put more effort into that descriptiont han he does on average. You are not meant to linger on the prose of Brandy. You're are to be smoothly transported to that Dean Koontz like hook at the end- "Dying rarely is".

In seconds, you have absorbed that there is a spooky scary fell creature, and the man looking at it is some zombie thing. Hooks! I don't think he's phoned it in, I think the man has done just as he set out to.

The real test, the real bit of knowledge to be derived here, is what specifically about Dicken's seperates it from Sanderson. It has to be more than creative imagery. I'm sure Sanderson has described a common thing in simile.


>Butterfly is in this thread
Jesus christ please just leave us alone.

[Anonymous No.16554806]

>>16546371
Keep at it bossman.This is clearly a first effort, no shame in that. Finish it, read more, go back to it if you want. In all honesty your mechanics are lacking, your syntax is quite r3ddit, the opening reads like the spiel of some edgy video game character. You'll improve

[Anonymous No.16554831]

>>16554783
What are you interested in? What do you normally paint?

[Anonymous No.16554835]

>>16554783
Paint frogs.

[Anonymous No.16554885]

>>16554707
Adding to what the other anon said, write after you exercise and think about what you'll write during your workout. Prepare. That way you'll have ideas and things to put to page by the time you get around to writing rather than trying to think of it in the moment and wasting your assigned half an hour on thinking of what'll go down and how to execute it.

[Anonymous No.16554919]

>>16554831
Im interested in things surrounding death, both cultural and biological. I like insignificant broken objects, not to be sad about them but to show them as new 'orginals'. Im also interested in memory and perception. What i dont like is to use fotos.
I also witnessed chanculture for the last 15 years and i think it fucked up my relation to images a bit.
Normally i paint portraits and those broken objects.
As i write this i notice how my interests sound too general and vague.

[Anonymous No.16554960]

>>16554919
Is it similar to the concept of "kintsugi" from Japan?

[Anonymous No.16554970]

I just finished a big school project 16 days before the deadline and I'm free as a bird to write anything I want.
The freedom leaves me overwhelmed and unable to decide what I actually want to spend that time writing.

[Anonymous No.16554993]

>>16554970
Do you have a list of ideas?

[Anonymous No.16555003]

>>16554960
A bit. The things i paint are absolutely useless though.

[Anonymous No.16555023]

>>16555003
Can you give an example?

[Anonymous No.16555048]

>>16554993
I have two I've been thinking about.
>writing about long-distance running
>writing about helping tadpoles during a dry summer

[Anonymous No.16555074]

>>16551872
It immediately reminded me of legends of galactic heroes

[Anonymous No.16555077]

>>16555048
Both sound good. I'm sure you could write about both in a similar manner, a philosophy of both?

[Anonymous No.16555093]

>>16555023
Broken tools that became unrecognizable with only the handle and some undefined metal part on top, used staples, detached zipper parts...

[Anonymous No.16555096]

>>16552596
They’re just nicknames using a foreign language, it’s quite literally the same as naming one of your characters ‘rice ball’ in English

I would not read his work lol

[Anonymous No.16555134]

>>16553686
If someone doesn’t like your art they’re not wrong

If they critique your technique that’s different, but you can’t fault someone over their taste in aesthetics

[Anonymous No.16555148]

>>16551872
Where did you get your images from?

[Anonymous No.16555157]

>>16555096
It's not literally naming his character Rice Ball. We'd have to find another pun in English to make it work. In Japanese it works because that's the joke.

It would be like Richard Big. Literally Dick Big.

[Anonymous No.16555165]

>>16555093
That's pretty cool.
You said you hide that kind of thing and then make something else normally. What do you normally make?

[Anonymous No.16555208]

>>16555096
No, it'd be like naming your character "Hot Dog" in English. And don't worry my work is aimed at kids, not hipsters.

[Anonymous No.16555222]

>>16555208
If his main character is a dog named Hot Dog, yeah that would be a fairly apt comparison.

[Anonymous No.16555224]

>>16555134
>If someone doesn’t like your art they’re not wrong
If someone doesn't like your art, that means they don't like your art. There's no objectivity to it. Liking something is purely a subjective thing. Your opinion isn't critique though, don't make the mistake of conflating the two. Critique SHOULD be aimed specifically at the mechanics and techinque, the OBJECTIVE traits, as objectivity is the only way to accurately qualify something in order to improve. It's the same for writing. And I never argued for faulting someone over their taste in aesthetics or what have you. I argued against people who believe passing off their tastes and opinions as valid criticism for someone seeking to improve.

[Anonymous No.16555242]

>>16555222
Dog, canine, werewolf, what have you. In some manga that's meant to be more comedic and light-hearted and aimed at kids. The joke works for children. Japanese kids think it's the funniest thing ever. Japanese adults have told me it's a clever pun. That's all that really matters. You should write for your target audience. Silly as he might find it, some of the most popular characters in modern culture are called Karrot, Vegetable, Broccoli, and Bloomers. Also, Pikachu is LITERALLY a Japanese pun.

Have fun with your work. If you're enjoying it, then so will your readers. Just be mindful of your target audience. Who is this for? Don't be a selfish writer. That would be my advice.

[Anonymous No.16555251]

Art is simply that which is created. Ever taken a look at a “folk art” piece and noticed that it lacks the perspective one might have gotten from attending a fancy French school. Yet it’s still “art” isn’t it. In fact, some people collect “folk art” exclusively.
There’s no right or wrong way to create art (and creative writing is art). A professional critic/instructor/internet douchebag/fucko from new York publishing can offer their opinion in critique, but it’s up to the artist to assess the validity of that input. Maybe he goes, “yeah, I can see how that would better convey what I was intending,” but WHAT IF he hears it and says, “no, no, that’s not what I was going for at all.”
The only judge of art is the artist: what was intended. The rest is just input to apply or discard as the case may be. Maybe nobody will like his work, maybe they will. Maybe he’ll be a darling of the critic set and not sell a single book, or maybe he’ll sell millions and the critics can just cope.

[Anonymous No.16555262]

>>16555251
>There’s no right or wrong way to create art
Yeah but it is wrong to use a period to end a question. Proofread your shit.

[Anonymous No.16555266]

>>16555262
Opinion discarded. I decided to go with an unhinged internet vibe for that post.

[Anonymous No.16555286]

Glad to see these threads have devolved into criticizing criticism and unabashedly discussing writing isekai. Could you all please do the world a favor and commit suicide immediately?

[Anonymous No.16555297]

>>16555251
Yes and no.

There are objective qualities to art based on the fundamentals. These were created during the Renaissance: Perspective, Composition, Lighting, Color Theory, Anatomy, Gesture, etc....


The artist should always be striving to improve their craft. As art is a means of self-expression, and better technical skill, which comes from a thorough understanding of the craft THROUGH experience, well be able to accurately assess whether a piece of art is OBJECTIVELY god or not. Whether certain elements of a piece were intentionally stylization, or a result of a lack of skill. The spirit of the artist lives on in a constant striving for self-improvement.

Writing is no different, it too has its fundamental structures: prose, meter, scene, character, theme, dialogue, pacing, etc...

Professional “critics” cannot help the artist nor the writer if they have not actively developed their skills at the craft. The creative themselves should asses the feedback given to them, but more often than not, those who are inexperienced will be of no use to the artist. That is not say that only the artist can know for themselves if their work is good. Absolutely not, and such a statement is so narrow-minded it borders on arrogance. Seek out other writers, other artists. Ignore the amateurs “critics” or not, who lack hands on experience. As an amateur, you take your story to an experiencen and professional AUTHOR, and I guarantee they’ll be able to pinpoint where your story fails OBJECTIVELY. Because you’re disregarding the core fundamentals of storytelling, as any amateur would. It’s not inherent. It’s not innate. It’s not loosy-goosey post-modernist nonsense, where the bar is lowered to absolute dirt. It’s a creative skill with objective standards. Once you’ve gained mastery over the basic fundamentals of story, then you can experiment with how to “stylize” your work by doing unconventional things to better express how you want to convey your ideas. Talented painters like Picasso and Dali knew all about the core fundamentals of painting before delving into more unconventional abstract work. They weren’t complete amateurs who picked up a brush for first time and created a masterpiece. It’s arrogant to believe that you’re above that, and that your first story will be great despite being a total amateur. Accept that your first FEW stories will totally suck until you get better, and actively seek constructive feedback in order to improve.

[Anonymous No.16555304]

>>16555286
Sure. You should go first though, as well as all the professional “critics” who lurk these threads but have never sat down to write anything more than a shitpost.

[Anonymous No.16555314]

>>16555165
No this is what i make and show.but i feel i should make bigger things and expand my subjects.

[Anonymous No.16555323]

>>16555286
You could have spent the minute writing this post on working on actually writing. It takes about as long to commit suicide. Since you aren't going to write, you may as well.

[Anonymous No.16555328]

>>16555314
Do whatever you feel like. There may be some days where you want to make something boring to rest. There may be some days where you feel much more lively and want to do something with the concept of death. Do whichever your mood calls for.

[Anonymous No.16555331]

>>16555266
Ah, you're one of those

[Anonymous No.16555367]

>>16555297
>Absolutely not, and such a statement is so narrow-minded it borders on arrogance
Do you think it's possible that your post is so narrow-minded that it could be said to border on arrogance?

[Anonymous No.16555405]

>>16555297
>The artist should always be striving to improve their craft. As art is a means of self-expression,
I really like this part. The rest is superfluous.

Art is creative, but it is also a form of communication. But to whom? If my art were intended for you I would necessarily value what you value to ensure my message is received. But what if it's not for you? What if there's another reason for the decisions I make regarding "fundamental structures"?

The best art is art that is intended and, like you say, artist are always striving (and I'll add, "should strive" to this) to improve. It is the nature of your idea of improvement that I take issue with.

All that matters is, who's the artist? What is the art? And who is it for?

[Anonymous No.16555415]

>>16555323
If that's the best you could come up with, I'm afraid you have no talent.

[Anonymous No.16555423]

>>16555331
I'm also one of these >>16555405
And you forgot your period. Or are you on it? ;)

[Anonymous No.16555426]

>>16555405
Art is just what science hasn't cheapened yet. Why do you have to write like such a twat?

[Anonymous No.16555429]

>>16555415
>no talent
If that's the best you could come up with, I'm afraid you should neck yourself.

[Anonymous No.16555443]

>>16555423
Don't give me your fucking f*cebook winky face, you colossal nigger. Your fucking imperious tone didn't match the way you presented it. If you want to write authoritatively and with that really fucking hackneyed assumed gravitas like your favorite philosophizing man, at least fucking pay attention to basic shit.

[Anonymous No.16555453]

>>16555443
>write authoritatively
triggered!

Have a corn pop!

[Anonymous No.16555460]

>>16555453
You're not half as clever as you think you are.

[Anonymous No.16555462]

>>16555077
Combine the two? I guess that's doable.

[Anonymous No.16555468]

>>16555429
>I'll repeat what he said, that'll show him that my mind is just bursting with original ideas!

[Anonymous No.16555478]

>>16555405
>but to whom
Your target audience. I already said ITT not to be a selfish writer and always have your target audience in mind. Ultimately, write whatever you like, but don't expect people to think that you're as brilliant as you like to pretend you are. Art is communication. If you're unskilled at properly communicating due to a lack of experience, pretending you we intentionally trying to be bad to be difficult doesn't change the fact that your work is bad. Again, the artist should always strive to polish their craft.

>>16555367
No, because it's not. You're also not presenting any form of counter-argument. Just a weak attempt at "clever" snark.

[Anonymous No.16555483]

>>16554357
Why do you assume this?

[Anonymous No.16555490]

>>16555483
Because they're the only ones posting work asking for feedback. The rest are debating over stupid crap, and trying to cope with the fact that their opions are irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.16555492]

>>16555478
>No, because it's not
You sound pretty set on what you believe, and you state it all pretty definitively. Isn't that closed-minded? Isn't that summary and complete denial a little arrogant?

[Anonymous No.16555516]

>>16555462
Yeah. I assume that the two things hold some similarities in the way they make you feel as well as some differences. You can contrast them with one another pretty well.

[Anonymous No.16555524]

>>16555492
He’s gonna lose his shit when agent’s refuse his manuscript.
>Buh, buh, you have to publish me. I checked all the boxes. My fundamentals are flawless! I honed my skill set, dammit! I’ve improved my craft!

[Anonymous No.16555550]

>>16555297
pyw

[Anonymous No.16555560]

>>16555550

[Anonymous No.16555581]

>>16555524
On the contrary. You turn to editors for feedback, as they have experience in storycraft.

I'm saying ignore professional "critics" not, ignore people whose career it is to write good stories. Editors are probably the very best people to consult on how to improve your craft.

I'm saying "expect to fail on your first attempts" the people arguing against me are saying either "that doesn't matter it's all inate, I don't need critique" or "people who don't write can offer valuable feedback to writers." Both of these statements are wrong.

>inb4 but editors don't write

[Anonymous No.16555647]

>>16555328
Its more that i start with something and become inflexible which results in shitty work and in frustration. I keep ovethinking meaning and composition and it kills all spontanity.
Then afterwards i think wtf am i doing.
Painting teacher told me to take risks but idk how.

[Anonymous No.16555657]

>>16555647
Do you complete the painting though?

[Anonymous No.16555720]

>>16555657
yeah...
and then afterwards it feels im back at square one.

[Anonymous No.16555738]

>>16555720
You are far passed square one. Finishing the painting is great.

What are your canvas sizes? Do you paint with traditional paints, or are you digital?

[Anonymous No.16555755]

>>16555738
Oil paint.
Portraits 50x60.
Still lifes from 18x24 to 50x40
Now busy with bigger sizes. 140x180
, 100x90and 100x120..

[Anonymous No.16555756]

>>16549175
Link? I'm genuuinely curious

[Anonymous No.16555762]

>>16555755
Have you thought about doing many smaller pieces and trying to find the feeling?

[Anonymous No.16555773]

>>16555755
I felt similar with writing, but I found that writing a few short stories, maybe 2-6000 words a piece, has helped me find which one I want to write more.

[Anonymous No.16556004]

>>16555762
Yeah it helped with the broken tools, other times it becomes aimless

[Anonymous No.16556012]

>>16543543
an excerpt from the end of a chapter for a book i'll never release because its just more "white man sad and lonely, world evil" into the endless ocean of shite, please feel free to read though.

He could not even go through with this act, the one attempt he had made to add variety to his life was shelfed “for another day” as were the other ideas from when he was younger. Inside he knew that what he was searching for was not simply sex, but a deeper feeling of contentment with himself, though such complexities had to be cultivated, something that would not happen with a quick pump and sigh. He peered through the condensation laden glass to his right and observed the people passing on the street below him. In that moment he hated them. Especially those walking hand in hand or laughing, he wished for nothing but despair on them, regardless of their merits as individuals he could feel nothing but anger, eventually washed away by a dulled sadness.

[Anonymous No.16556015]

>>16553355
Love u butterfly. No homo.

[Anonymous No.16556042]

>>16556004
How many small pieces can you pain in a day? Have you thought about doing a project where you make X amount of something following a theme?

[Anonymous No.16556096]

>>16556012
also a extract from another chapter.

He loved his father but couldn’t stand to be near the man for more than a few days at a time, in a lot of ways he found himself mirrored in him, which of course was entirely off putting. He was hard working but sad, divorced when Simon was just eight years old, he’d never managed to settle after that, he drifted from job to job and remained alone unlike his mother. Both his parents were dead so ultimately his son was his only remaining family, a fact he was sure to remind Simon of at every opportunity.

[Anonymous No.16556134]

Why are we talking about painting? There's literally a whole board for that.

[Anonymous No.16556172]

Someone really should deconstruct the entire incel brooding genre. Not as a satire or in the condescending view of a woman. But it would be fun to see those kind of stories getting a bit of a twist from the usual "and he lived the rest of his bitter days all alone"

[Anonymous No.16556184]

>>16546415
>>16546386
I could never get into urban fantasy set in a very similar world with the magic always existed explanation. In your case, why didn't the cultures that highly valued 'achieving inner peace' have a very large population of true mages or whatever you call them? why did they not change world history? I would also add a lot more mystery around the resurfacing of magic.
Everything else about the premise sounds good. The setting sounds like a mix of Heartstrikers Series and Worm. Both had their faults, I hope your story turns out great anon.

[Anonymous No.16556191]

>>16556172
What are some books in this genre? Do you mean stuff like Notes from the Underground and A Catcher in the Rye?

[Anonymous No.16556206]

>>16556172
What twist do you have in mind? He finally finds an anime wife? Some hot chick breaks down his door and finds his broken self-loathing super attractive?

[Anonymous No.16556230]

>>16556172
it's not really a genre that lends itself to twists though is it ?
not if it's trying to be somewhat realistic, the vast majority of "those" people DO lead those lives and die alone.
it's counterproductive to write within a genre that's rigid and realistic and think about adding a twist, just choose a different genre for that.

[Anonymous No.16556233]

>>16556134
/ic/ and is shit

[Anonymous No.16556254]

>>16551813
What's your story called? I've been looking for a good empire-building story after Wandering Inn author decided to no longer write about the [Emperor] side-story and castle kingside went into hiatus due to a few bad reviews.

[Anonymous No.16556271]

>>16556206
Obviously some monster girl waifu finds him.

[Anonymous No.16556277]

>>16556271
This is fine.

[Anonymous No.16556281]

>>16556233
And? Why shit up this board with irrelevant content just because you don't like /ic/? Dumb fuck

[Anonymous No.16556285]

>>16556254
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/34456/king-of-beasts

It's a first draft and I'm going through the process of creating a habit through writing. It's my first really big project, though I welcome criticism.

[Anonymous No.16556292]

>>16556277
I guess I'll write one soon. Any reccommendations of something similar so I can research it?

[Anonymous No.16556306]

>>16556292
What, men fucking monster girls? Pretty sure that's a doujin tag.

[Anonymous No.16556307]

>>16556281
stop being butthurt

[Anonymous No.16556323]

>>16556307
you are the reason this board is shit, go back to /ic/ you selfish fag

[Anonymous No.16556327]

>>16556230
Idk. Maybe by some miracle the incel escapes his state and becomes a Chad, only to find the chad life disgusting or ultimately is not meant for someone like him. For he is broken, so he abandons the Chad life and lives the rest of his bitter incel life all alone, but being content with it?

[Anonymous No.16556370]

>>16556306
No, sorry for not being clear, I meant the incel fiction.

[Anonymous No.16556393]

>>16556370
Oh, well I was also asking about that previously.

[Anonymous No.16556403]

>>16556393
Two carts and no horse :(

[Anonymous No.16556406]

>>16556254
>went into hiatus due to a few bad reviews.
Wait seriously? Since when? And isn't that one of the highest rated webnovels? How bad were the reviews that it was enough to put the author on hiatus?

[Anonymous No.16556425]

>tfw only 25 single guy
>tfw have vague ideas involving things I won't know for at least another decade or so
Seriously, oldfags who have lived their lives have it so much easier.

[Anonymous No.16556453]

>>16556425
27 here, got to admit it feels great to look down my nose at whippersnappers like you.

[Anonymous No.16556469]

>>16556453
26. I don't know what to think.

[Anonymous No.16556511]

>>16556206
>>16556172
Just rule 63 aka femcel brooding genre.

[Anonymous No.16556529]

>>16556425
>oldfags who have lived their lives have it so much easier
There was an old /lit/ meme that if you're not published by 25 you won't make it. That made me very depressed at 25 when I just realized I actually wanted to be a writer.
32 loser trying not to suicide

[Anonymous No.16556570]

>>16552934
>Dickens
Dickens wrote phenomenal prose. One of the best opening chapters I've ever read was Bleak House. The problem with him is that what he wrote was serialized, and he dragged out everything far, far too long. Those descriptions and plot become ponderous, and ultimately end up dragging down the rest of the novel as it keeps going (nowhere).

[Anonymous No.16556716]

>>16556285
>formatting your dialogue tags incorrectly

This is what I mean when I say isekaifags don't actually read. This would have been avoided if they read one actual book besides webfiction.

[Anonymous No.16556730]

>>16556716
I hate the way I should do dialogue tags, so I do what's easiest. I'll edit it later. I wasn't kidding when I said it was a first draft.

[Anonymous No.16556743]

>>16556716
one day, an isekai writer will save your life and you'll regret shitting on them on the chans

[Anonymous No.16556750]

>>16556716
I don't actually read webfiction. I'm currently reading Elric and I'm starting Conan soon. Do you have any recommendations?

[Anonymous No.16556751]

>>16556743
More likely they'll let him die so he can get isekaied into a fantasy world.

[Anonymous No.16556777]

>>16556750
Peake (which was posted earlier in the thread). Melville. Tolkien. Dumas. Stevenson. Read short story collections to expose yourself to a wide array of authors and styles in an efficient manner.

[Anonymous No.16556798]

>>16556751
10/10
>>16556777
I recently acquired Titus Groan, no wonder his name was so familiar.
Pretty much everyone there was on my list so I'll get started on that.
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.16556824]

>>16556285
>Traumatizing Content
Unless it's something like "Guts" by Chuck Pahlaniuk, I really can't imagine this tag being used properly. Does Royal Retard require you to tag something as traumatizing when you splatter some dude's skull in prose?

[Anonymous No.16556830]

>>16556824
I think so? There's a lot of dark stuff that happens early, and even darker stuff later.

[Anonymous No.16556843]

>>16556777
>No Lord Dunsany

[Anonymous No.16556849]

someone please make a new thread. I don't have any relevant OP images

[Anonymous No.16556876]

>>16556849
Here, use this

[Anonymous No.16556880]

>>16556849
Please call it "no professional critics allowed edition"

[Anonymous No.16556901]

How about this? You can call it "you'll never be as successful as her" edition

[Anonymous No.16556929]

>>16556901
Seconded.

[Anonymous No.16557026]

>>16556406
He was speaking about how much he regretted how the story's first arc was written. Resulting in the new people coming in to read it after hearing about it from friends being disappointed and leaving behind 1/2 star reviews. Which meant his story only kept on dropping in rankings.
Fairly common issues for long-running Web novels. The author just lost his inspiration after seeing no potential for growth.

[Anonymous No.16557140]

any german speakers here?

[Anonymous No.16557165]

>>16557140
Nein

[Anonymous No.16557175]

>>16557026
One of the biggest disadvantages of writing by the seat of your pants, and then permanently publishing it

[Anonymous No.16557241]

>>16557175
I hope to avoid this pitfall by at least planning all three installments of my trilogy and drafting the first book before I publish the first chapter.

[Anonymous No.16557246]

new thread

>>16557242
>>16557242
>>16557242

[Anonymous No.16557324]

>>16556730
>I wasn't kidding when I said it was a first draft.
Why the fuck do people from /lit/ of all places publicise shitty first drafts? I thought you guys were better than this. It doesn't matter if you'll "edit it later". You've lost me already. You've lost readers. They're never coming back. You've been posting for months and have fuckall readers. All you've achieved is continue to give the website a bad name.

[Anonymous No.16557348]

>>16557324

[Anonymous No.16557454]

>>16557348
Sorry, hope you don't feel too bad about that. But this wasn't the first time I've seen someone link to their half-assed, unedited, whatever fiction. And from the reader's perspective, that complete lack of respect just pisses me off, and I'm pissed off on behalf of all the other readers too. I mean, everybody makes mistakes, nobody here is a master, but if you want someone to read your story, you should at least try to give the fucking best you can. If the writer doesn't respect my time and standards, then how can I have respect for him either? It's harsh, but that's just how it is.