/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16541029]

What is the best expose of the sham that is psychiatry?

[Anonymous No.16541089]

unrelated but econ majors are a meme
pseuds prancing around, breathing air, thinking they are studying something worthwhile

[Anonymous No.16541094]

>>16541029
Yes, mental health is defined by your ability to not act like a retard around other people. But I understand why incels don't get this, they are mentally ill after all.

[Anonymous No.16541113]

>>16541029
Isn't that quote just common sense

[Anonymous No.16541117]

>>16541029
the fact that psychiatry has never cured one single person

[Anonymous No.16541135]

>>16541089

did some econ major steal your girlfriend lol?

[Anonymous No.16541142]

>>16541029
Thomas Szasz is based on the topic, in spite of being a Jew.
The Myth of Mental Illness (1961) and The Manufacture of Madness (1970) are the references.

[Anonymous No.16541158]

>>16541135
what an econ major has been normally tasked with has been automated since the 80s (forecasting) with the technology making leaps
their math skills are laughable at best, every other discipline supposedly crammed into this crossroads of a major is half assed and doesn't make itself known unless it's on brochure
econ majors will always be a joke desu

[Anonymous No.16541172]

http://www.coherencetherapy.org/files/dodo-bibliography.pdf

[Anonymous No.16541179]

>>16541142
I should add that he's still a subversive yid trying to normalize obesity. You see the result in contemporary America.
In fact his own theorezation is shit, partly because of a Freudian basis, partly because he wasn't updated on neurology.
However he btfo many usual practices of psychiatry.

[Anonymous No.16541903]

>>16541029
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esPRsT-lmw8

[Anonymous No.16542112]

>>16541029
Medicine is the practice of organized writing down and sharing whatever works in the treatment of your patients. To do that, you need to outline some specific goals, have some candidate treatments in pursuing those goals, and document what occurs with patients undergoing those treatments. You share that information with the rest of your profession. When Plato was in vogue, and knowledge thought of as something which presents itself fully formed into the minds of nobility, it was the school of Hippocrates which preserved the tradition of assuming nothing is known until experienced.
Psychiatry is a part of medicine because it is practiced as medicine. If you have an issue with it, you have an issue with the practice of defining clear goals of treatment and pursuing whichever goal of treatment the profession as a whole has found is safest and most effective over time.
Some examples of goals of psychiatric treatment:
1) Decreasing the chance of patient suicide
2) Improving patient "function in daily life," which can mean ability to hold a job, ability to socially interact, ability to go longer amounts of time without a panic attack, ability to raise children.
3) Decreasing symptoms of schizophrenia including positive and negative hallucinations, inappropriate affect or mood (as compared to average population), or preventing such actions as are harmful to the patient or others.
The drugs used in psychiatry have been shown to work (in the documented experience of psychiatrists and psychiatric researchers) in reaching these goals as safely as possible, always weighed against the negative consequences of those drugs. The pain of debilitating schizophrenia is extreme, so the profession allows a higher degree of side effect and negative consequence from the aggressive management of that schizophrenia. Including holding patients against their will and the weight gain or sexual side effects of some antipsychotic medications.
Many psychiatrists dabble in psychology, often CBT has been shown to work in management of certain conditions, but psychiatry does not attempt to understand the mind as a whole. It doesn't attempt to hash out every miniscule detail of the mechanism of drugs, as what's important about these drugs are their ability to prevent or cause certain outcomes balanced against side effects on a population level.
It's brutal and shitty and it sucks to be averaged in with all of a study population, it conflicts with our inherent self-importance and sense of uniqueness as people, but the project of psychiatry is still meaningful and useful.
I think you have a problem with psychology, which is a lot less useful and a lot more harmful when used to justify actions on individuals or groups. They're interconnected, but it's good to pay attention to these differences as psychiatry is a practical and pragmatic project whereas psychology is theoretical.

[Anonymous No.16542191]

>>16542112
has psychiatry ever cured 1 (one) person?

[Anonymous No.16542198]

>>16542191
"cure" means nothing, psychiatry accomplishes the goals it sets for itself at high rates.

[Anonymous No.16542221]

>>16542191
me

[Anonymous No.16542227]

>>16542191
dumb canned response, did you even read the effortpost?

[Anonymous No.16542249]

>>16541158
*gets a prestigious bulge bracket ibd job out of college because boomers think econ is finance for big brains*

[Anonymous No.16542283]

>>16542249
nope
i'm an econ major
it was a massive waste of time
you need to go to grad school for literally anything else to make this degree worthwhile

[Anonymous No.16542288]

>>16542249
boomers are dying like crazy that shit is sinking
also
>wishful thinking
lmao
good job remembering those 9-20 definitions

[Anonymous No.16542293]

>>16542249
Probably dude you will land just a regular job, major choice matters a lot less then colleges would have you believe.

[Anonymous No.16542307]

>>16541029
>What is the best expose of the sham that is psychiatry?

Jordan Peterson’s public and private life

[Anonymous No.16542626]

>>16542198
>"cure" means nothing
lmao, so you are saying psychiatry is just rhetorical garbage, it doesn't actually do anything that can be tested empirically

[Anonymous No.16542638]

>>16542626
Quite the opposite. Read the post.

[Anonymous No.16542646]

>>16541029
Karl Jaspers disproves all of modern psychiatry in his lectures.

[Anonymous No.16542677]

>>16541029
>be a social mammal that has lived in a close interconnected community for hundreds of thousands of years
>spend most of time outdoors chewing on prebiotic twigs, exposing self to beneficial acute immune stressors in dirt, sleeping in utter darkness and exercising in sunlight, always around other people

>one century decide “fuck this”
>stay inside all day looking at blue light
>never see anyone
>never exposed to acute pathogens nor prebiotics
>limited exercise and sunlight
>no close belonging
>no natural sounds or smells or senses

Gee, I can’t begin to figure out why 21st century humans are extremely biologically stressed. Whatever can it be? Is it our extraordinarily unhealthy lifestyle? No, no, it’s the genetics that are wrong.

[Anonymous No.16542683]

>>16542112
>>16542638
>1) Decreasing the chance of patient suicide
by turning them into literal useless zombies
>2) Improving patient "function in daily life," which can mean ability to hold a job, ability to socially interact, ability to go longer amounts of time without a panic attack, ability to raise children.
make them docile
>3) Decreasing symptoms of schizophrenia including positive and negative hallucinations, inappropriate affect or mood (as compared to average population), or preventing such actions as are harmful to the patient or others.
schizophrenics are touched by the gods, and not dangerous in a healthy culture, they are just reacting in a healthy way to a sick culture

[Anonymous No.16542697]

>>16542646
>In both instances the act of
understanding presupposes and implies something that cannot be understood;
this baffling element, however, is twofold and heterogeneous. Without the
one aspect (the `givenness' of causality) the understandable would cease to
exist and without the other (Existence being itself) there would be no content.

In uniting these two one will in the end always run up against Gödel's incompleteness theorem. More precisely, Tarski's generalization of that accursed theorem. This means that psychiatrists must face up to the fact that they are de facto ethicists. The last 50-60 years of psychiatric tradition (since Jung's death) were therefore meaningless.

[Anonymous No.16542729]

>The Last Psychiatrist

Before he started getting into critiques of society in general, he would write articles that offered an insider view of the psychiatryic industry .

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/clinical

It's all juicy stuff.

[Anonymous No.16542750]

>>16542683
Why would you ever pretend to argue against psychiatry on some kind of logical level when your real reasons for disagreeing are much more cool and idiosyncratic? Skip the first whole section of your act and jump right into the touched by god thing in the future.
From what you're saying here it sounds like your problem is way more of an anarchist anti-establishment thing than psychiatry in general which is definitely a self enforcing part of the establishment, in that it tries to keep people alive and functioning within industrial society as it exists right now instead of how it could exist in the future or past. You dont believe in "alive and functioning within society" as a worthy goal, so what were you even talking about earlier trying to argue with me?

[Anonymous No.16543013]

>>16542750
the whole point is that you aren't curing anybody, just making things worse

[Anonymous No.16543027]

>>16542646
Karl Jaspers aka Wal-Mart Jung? Pass

[Anonymous No.16543073]

>>16543027
Both are valuable.

[Anonymous No.16543096]

>>16542112
All this sounds well and good when you put it down like this but let me give a good example of something I've seen quite often that has convinced me of the excesses of psychiatry. First of all, school is compulsive; most kids who are mentally ill begin their treatment while still in high school, this means that the treatment of 'spending time with one's family, enjoying the leisure of youth, studying on one's own time with a personal curriculum' is completely pushed off the table in favor of pills and therapy. So not only does the hypothetical kid, not only does he have the stresses of high school but also the stresses of psychiatric treatment, and no leisure or self-development except in whether this or that drug gives him these or those side effects, whether he got better grades during this or that semester and why. Let's look at another kid, we know that teenagers aren't legally emancipated until they turn 18 (emancipations prior to that are rare and unlikely enough that they shouldn't be considered) -- he's 15 or 16, and he feels by all accounts mature enough to begin his adulthood. Of course his parents reject this idea as absurd, and over time he develops a grudge in his idleness; his rebellion is interpreted as coming from nowhere (from 'mental illness') and he's put in treatment where he hides his anger because of it's expected misunderstanding by others, who've up to now only infantilized him and treated his understanding of himself with contempt. So he enters adulthood not with a head held high but already thwarted at every turn and treated as an alien from society, with a mind undoubtedly changed by treatment and pills. Do you see nothing wrong with this?

[Anonymous No.16543141]

>>16543013
The information the psychiatrists compulsively collect about the effect of their treatment strategies shows otherwise.

[Anonymous No.16543180]

>>16541029
i think the scientologists are big into that

[Anonymous No.16543190]

>>16542112
As for Psychology, there was a time when theoretical psychology didn't exist as the meaningless accouterments to a fully-functional psychiatric bureaucracy; in Goethe's time, for example, psychology was used by artists and philosophers as a way of deepening our understandings of ourselves; psychology had a real place in the heart of the novel. It was the study of the Psyche, the Soul, and had a real spiritual meaning that we've completely lost. If people feel dehumanized and stripped of their 'uniqueness' by the psychiatric system it isn't because of their personal narcissism it's because humans aren't meant to be treated like nodes in a network, statistics to be shifted around on game board. A thousand over-medicated children is just a statistic, did someone say that?

[Anonymous No.16543193]

>>16541135
Dam you got him

[Anonymous No.16543203]

>>16542249
Ye if your going to a prestigious school you are fine people will love that degree

[Anonymous No.16543264]

>>16543096
that absolutely sucks, you're right.
Again, I think what we're arguing over here are not the same terms. The status quo is preserved by psychiatry because it smooths out the rough parts, and helps many people who otherwise would not be able to function within the rigid limitations and expectations of our shitty culture begin to align themselves with the margins. This preserves the shitty culture, no doubt.
But it's good at it. They've figured out how to minimize the negative consequences and maximize the response to their treatment strategies, like I outlined in >>16542112, and they're continuing to improve within the paradigm of scientific medicine. The status quo would likely be destroyed if psychiatrists all suddenly disappeared and no new ones were created, but we would lose a lot of loved ones, and a lot of human misery would transpire in the process. Practically nobody is willing to let themselves or a loved one be a part of that mass casualty.
To illustrate my point, I ask you in what reality does "spending time with one's family, enjoying the leisure of youth, studying on one's own time with a personal curriculum" sound like a realistic option? Maybe some trust fund kid or someone who has the disposition to withstand material poverty. Obviously that should be an option, but that's not a problem with psychiatry, that's a problem with the fabric of culture and industry. Psychiatry, civil engineers, anyone who deals with real outcomes is concerned with conditions now, not conditions as they could be. That's why it's so easy to find an anti-psychiatry circlejerk on /lit/, among people who mostly don't have families, careers, or any kind of meaningful skin in the game of the system at large. It's a self selecting group obviously, but it's growing.
I also say this pretty frequently, and people disagree without any experience with psychiatric patients or non-autodidactic review of psychiatric research, but addicts, suicidally depressed, debilitatingly anxious, schizophrenics on track to kill themselves and live miserable lives caked in their own shit and scabies, all would exist in whatever future utopia we create. We would be better at accommodating them and helping them to live full and satisfactory lives, but part of that would have to involve some sort of pharmacological and behavioral therapy. There's a biological basis to these illnesses, however it is worsened by cultural environment, that can never be eliminated until we are able to program people's genes or upload onto computers or some other inconceivable and unlikely change to the fundamental nature of human beings as biological organisms.

[Anonymous No.16543306]

>>16542112
>>16543141
it's not working dude

[Anonymous No.16543323]

>>16543306
How does an increase in documenting psych patients imply an increase in suicides?

[Anonymous No.16543327]

>>16541029
a lit user talking about pseuds...

[Anonymous No.16543339]

>>16543323
cope

[Anonymous No.16543354]

>>16541089
are you autistic?

[Anonymous No.16543355]

>>16542677
Yes, good work. Now take your medications, they will make you happy.

[Anonymous No.16543515]

>>16543264
>They've figured out how to minimize the negative consequences and maximize the response to their treatment strategies, like I outlined in >>16542112, and they're continuing to improve within the paradigm of scientific medicine. The status quo would likely be destroyed if psychiatrists all suddenly disappeared and no new ones were created, but we would lose a lot of loved ones, and a lot of human misery would transpire in the process. Practically nobody is willing to let themselves or a loved one be a part of that mass casualty.

I mean to me this just sounds like rationalization; what does 'minimize negatives and maximize positives' even mean, are humans just chips on a game board to you? I think even the most impoverished can spend time with their families and be autodidacts, they can learn their parents' trades, that's a personal curriculum if I've ever heard one. Emily Dickinson said of books "This Traverse may the poorest take / Without oppress of Toll – / How frugal is the Chariot / That bears the Human Soul –." We don't need layers of bureaucratic bandage to aid the human soul.

I don't want to create a future utopia, in fact I fear that's the problem with psychiatry; that it attempts to create a utopia. If it trained itself at only the most devastatingly disordered people in society I wouldn't have such an issue, but so many clearly normal people I know have been brought under the bat-like wings of psychiatric care; like a cult it convinces people of their inadequacy, and feeds them on it's lifeless food. In your ideology, addiction and depression must be biological, must be chemical, because otherwise human strength alone could overcome them. The schizophrenics and the utterly debilitated, the shell-shocked madmen, sure, let's have psychiatry for them, but psychiatry doesn't just want them. It's power-hungry. And it blots out our understanding of ourselves in it's need for total Benthamist happiness maximization of the human node.

[Anonymous No.16543556]

>>16542198
cope lol