Towards a New Socialism

[Anonymous No.16537012]

Ok, this two motherfuckers are literally the new Marx and Engels of the 21th century. How anybody is not talking about it? They solved the fucking economic calculation problem and eternally BTFOd Austrian economics just in a book and a few papers.

[Anonymous No.16537018]

Based and Cockshott pilled

[Anonymous No.16537053]

>>16537012
Capitalism vs socialism is so 19th century, try technological society vs atechnological society

[Anonymous No.16537071]

>>16537053
Ellulpill me

[Anonymous No.16537112]

>>16537071
I'm a little drunk, start with Technological Society it's really easy to get into once you comprehend his definition of technique which includes stuff like managerial organization among more obvious things like machines

[Anonymous No.16537115]

>>16537012
Nigga shut up who gives a fuck about economics

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16537157]

>>16537012
Yes, but you underestimate the power of the purposefully ignorant.

>>16537053
Low tech capitalism is just as destructive. End state-capitalism and the ecological disaster can be addressed. End technology and it won’t

>>16537071
Someone was telling me it isn’t exactly Liddite-ism, but he still retreats to Catholicism

>>16537115
Your lords and masters care a great deal

[Anonymous No.16537177]

>>16537157
>low tech capitalism
Who said anything about capitalism lmao? We're building a low tech anarchist society and BTW there probably won't be enough resources for your hormonal therapy so you better learn some useful survival skill if you want to remain alive butterfag

[Anonymous No.16537206]

>>16537177
BASED

[Anonymous No.16537210]

>>16537157
I don't like you, Butterfly. Why do you pose as an insufferable anarkiddie if you supposedly have read Cockshott and Cottrell?

[Anonymous No.16537245]

>>16537012
>They solved the fucking economic calculation problem
Doubt, but TLDR?

[Anonymous No.16537359]

Blessed thread, read cockshott

>>16537115
Imagine being so deluded to not care about our socio-economic reality where 6 people own the same amount of wealth of the bottom 4 billion. Capitalism is working fine, it's a system that divides the world into two broad classes.

>>16537157
Please read Lenin butterfly, you're too naive and scared about the 'authoritarian communist' boogeyman. You're based, but you could be a little more based if you would understand that capitalists aren't gonna let you build your socialism without interfering.

>>16537177
Clearly you haven't analyzed the material reality enough.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16537400]

>>16537177
>Still threatened at the thought a woman posts here

>>16537210
You saying anarchists can’t use non accumulative currency? You don’t need a state to write up an app. And besides, it’s a training wheel system for a moneyless economy.

>>16537359
The boogeyman that set the movement back over a hundred years. Now we’re at the end of the line and we have to have it all pretty much now, and you still wanna take the US into a China like state centralized capitalist system so we can promise communism in another couple of generation’s time THAT WE DONT HAVE

[Anonymous No.16537408]

>>16537245
https://mises.org/library/review-oftowards-new-socialism-w-paul-cockshott-and-allin-f-cottrell

[Anonymous No.16537424]

>>16537400
>woman

[Anonymous No.16537433]

>>16537400
I am thinking you might still be full of anti-communist propaganda butterfly. Tbh, I'm not a Dengist and I do think china should be doing better.
But seriously what is your path towards socialism?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16537451]

>>16537359
But I don’t want to dismiss you so casually. Hope you’re having a nice day.
>if you would understand that capitalists aren't gonna let you build your socialism without interfering.
We need a mass movement that convinces a majority to get on board. Establishing an authoritarian government and forcing people is only going to make them angry. Do gut the State Department, Pentagon etc. Do put the wealthy in small home house arrest to await trials, but do not slaughter the socialists. Allow them their freedoms.

[Anonymous No.16537495]

>>16537400
>You saying anarchists can’t use non accumulative currency?
What I'm saying is that you didn't understand a single word of the book you are advoting for. Read Marx.

[Anonymous No.16537514]

>>16537012
>They solved the fucking economic calculation problem and eternally BTFOd Austrian economics just in a book and a few papers.
how will the austrian economists running the world ever recover?

[Anonymous No.16537522]

Do you think Butterfly will ever become a good thinker? Is it even possible? That is actually a terrifying thought. Imagine being stuck in that neurobiology. No escape.

[Anonymous No.16537523]

>>16537451
>do not slaughter the socialists
why would we do that?
Look killing is way too charitable, I agree put people into jails or gulags by a fair trial. What did the USSR do wrong? It wasn't that authoritarian, pic related.

[Anonymous No.16537531]

>>16537053
Baste.

[Anonymous No.16537532]

>>16537523
Explain this diagram

[Anonymous No.16537535]

>>16537532
Democracy in the USSR

[Anonymous No.16537569]

>>16537535
better or worse?

[Anonymous No.16537582]

>>16537569
Better than bourgeoisie electoralism

[Anonymous No.16537601]

>>16537582
ok now explain how purges and secret police fit into this

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16537611]

>>16537495
You’ve read it most recently, yes? Tell me what concerns you about my understanding of it.

>>16537523
Historical precedent. And the fact that federal spooks will infiltrate and attempt to divide and conquer till they’re the new state with your yellow star mask.

[Anonymous No.16537614]

>You read Cockshott too?

[Anonymous No.16537620]

>>16537601
Paranoia about counter revolutionaries

[Anonymous No.16537624]

Anon, how did you find out about this book? I'd never seen it posted here before I posted it a few months back...

[Anonymous No.16537626]

>>16537400
>You saying anarchists can’t use non accumulative currency?
>Anarchism
>Money
Lol the state of leftoids

[Anonymous No.16537631]

>>16537624
/leftypol/ loves cockshott and discuss him all the time

[Anonymous No.16537632]

>>16537624
We shill it on Bunkerchan in every thread

[Anonymous No.16537639]

>>16537611
Please come back to /leftypol/ butterfly.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16537651]

>>16537626
It plainly says currency. Cockshott isn’t making a case for money. It’s more of a coupon. It earned for time worked, spent in a timely manner or it expires, can’t be stolen because it’s just for you, gets canceled out at the establishment accepting it. No banks, no debts. It isn’t money.

[Anonymous No.16537663]

>>16537611
You're just an idealist butterfly.

[Anonymous No.16537667]

>>16537620
If this system was so beneficial for the everyman, why were there so many counter revolutionaries?

[Anonymous No.16537670]

>>16537651
Ok so you're talking about a labor voucher

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16537684]

>>16537663
I’m thinking realistically. The establishment of a “socialist” will be infiltrated by reactionary elements. And there’s no way to root it out.
A series of direct democratic neighborhoods will have to have a super-majority of reactionaries in every neighborhood in order to have the same effect.
Which makes impossible a reactionary takeover

[Anonymous No.16537685]

>>16537667
Kulaks were large landowners and they didn't like that they couldn't exploit poorer farmers anymore

[Anonymous No.16537694]

>>16537685
Their grandparents worked the hardest and bought up all the land though ): fucking Stalin hated hard workers

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16537695]

>>16537684
>The establishment of a “socialist” STATE will be infiltrated by reactionary elements

>>16537670
Yes. Exactly

[Anonymous No.16537700]

>>16537685
Surely there weren't enough kulaks post 1945 to justify purging something like 1 in 10 Soviet citizens.

[Anonymous No.16537702]

>>16537700
>1 in 10
Holy shit is this your brain on American 'education'?

[Anonymous No.16537708]

>>16537702
Okay, 1 in 20. We don't have exact numbers.

[Anonymous No.16537743]

>>16537611
>Tell me what concerns you about my understanding of it.
They're materialists in the Marxian sense and explicitly advocate for a new system of central planning in Marxist-Leninistterms. Again, read Marx, Engels, Lenin and Luxemburg.

[Anonymous No.16537802]

>>16537012
I did and I discussed with my friend the work but he didn't explain to me something and the books skips on this topic. What's going to happen to self-employed people price on whose works is determined by their popularity? Wouldn't Patreon basically create a loophole in the socialist economy and allow the future Picassos and Tolstoys (I am looking at Sakimichan right now) to accumulate enormous assets and become the new labour aristocracy with ability to bribe his way into anything due to the fact they have infinite purchasing power and non-limited access to consumer goods? They don't need to accumulate capital when the people are basically willing to give them ANY goods, essentially turning the whole art trade into barter, be it jewelry, golden ingots or even political favors. Does it not wreck the system when 20 000 people decide to donate X amount of goods each to some famous person?

[Anonymous No.16537850]

>>16537695
you’re an old woman and I have an AR-15. your fantasy is going to stay as one.

[Anonymous No.16537902]

>>16537695
Butterfly what makes you think that you'll be a useful component of le communist reboultoon? Also what makes you think that you'll still be allowed to sling your dusty snatch at young cuties after [THE STATE] outlaws faggotry like they ALWAYS do. You, a middle-aged, childless, homosexual woman who wastes her time making baitposts on the Internet's autism corral, are allowed to exist because we live in the most decadent and tolerant social system in human history. You should be savouring this while it lasts, not larping about how you're going to help overthrow it.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16537927]

>>16537850
My “fantasy” is that a last minute attempt will fail and we will go extinct in about a hundred years.
Again, I cannot this enough, you attempt to establish a vanguardist state and the reactionary and straggling imperialists (neoliberals w/e) will infiltrate it like they always do. DO NOT CENTRALIZE STATE POWER

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16537934]

>>16537902
That is the cutest bait

[Anonymous No.16537954]

>>16537927
>DO NOT CENTRALIZE STATE POWER
Shut up, baizuo.

[Anonymous No.16537967]

>>16537934
>>16537927

[Anonymous No.16537973]

Nobody is interested in your opinions about how we should structure society.

[Anonymous No.16538045]

>>16537632
stay in your containment chan please
economics is for fags