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/lit/ - Literature

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16536643 No.16536643 [Reply] [Original]

So I just read Nietzsche for the first time and wtf why is his ideology literally better than every other philosophical/religious ideology in existence? How the fuck did we get memed into postmodernism or Christianity when his work exists?

>> No.16536647

>>16536643
Nietzsche is postmodernism

>> No.16536658

>>16536643
Read 'Nietzsche and Philosophy' by Deleuze. He was basically used as a base for what you call 'postmodernism'

>> No.16536668

>>16536647
No, postmodernism is max stirner egoist bullshit

>> No.16536670

>>16536647
>>16536658
These. Nietzsche wasn't a postmodernist, but he gave birth to it, indirectly.

>> No.16536675

>>16536658
>>16536647
But isn't that a misintepretation of his works? I've read Beyond Good and Evil and it felt like the message "there is only interpretation" was meant more for thinkers and philosophers than every individual.

>> No.16536677

>>16536668
Ok midwit

>> No.16536679

>>16536643
To say that his philosophy is 'better' than others misses the point of philosophy entirely.

>> No.16536689

>>16536675
>it felt like the message "there is only interpretation" was meant more for thinkers and philosophers than every individual.
That's what Deleuze says on his book. It's a more complicated usage of Nietzsche.

>> No.16536690

>>16536658
The worst aspects of his work, sure.

>> No.16536722

>>16536643
>How the fuck did we get memed into postmodernism
Did you actually read him? Nietzsche is one of the biggest influences in Post Modernism.

>> No.16536738

The entirety of pomo ironically got retroactively refuted by their "mentor" in BGE. He quite literally predicted the philosophers of the future would defend the doctrine of equality. Guess what concept pomos never protested against...

>> No.16536744

>>16536643
Cos hitler

>> No.16536763

>>16536722
“Life has no meaning so Ubermensch/Last Man” =/= “Life has no meaning and reality is subjective”

>> No.16536775

>>16536763
>Life has no meaning and reality is subjective
literally the worst plebian interpretation of any "postrmodern" take

>> No.16536782

>>16536658
Read “Based Deleuze” by Justin Murphy, Deleuze wasn’t a “postmodernist” and liked Nietzsche for his work on resentment, not his so-called relativism

>> No.16536786

>>16536775
That’s what postmodernism is in practice though. It’s straight up egoism

>> No.16536789
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16536789

>>16536643
Ehehem...

I see someone got into philosophy a month ago

>> No.16536790

>>16536763
Something tells me you didn't read the Genealogy of Morals. How could you claim that Nietzsche was heavily influential in post modernist thought? Also
>Life has no meaning and reality is subjective
You don't know what post modernism is.

>> No.16536802

>>16536782
>“Based Deleuze” by Justin Murphy
even if you are right, and the "postmodernists" are a diferent breed than Deleuze that one could say used him, your reference to Murphy is shit, and thus you are shit.

>> No.16536884

>>16536802
Read his ebook bro it aint bad, dont be a snob. You could find it on libgen and read it in 2 hours

>> No.16536887

>>16536647
Explain.

>> No.16536968

Why people relate nihilism with Nietzsche, he was very blunt about being against nihilism, see The Last Man.

>> No.16537077

every other post in this shitty thread is just a zoomer that has only listened to Peterson

>> No.16537085

>>16536968
The average person engaging in online discussion doesn't read, and on top of this, the average person thinks Nietzsche's ideas are basic enough that a Wikipedia skim is good enough, because the average person does watch a lot of garbage television and Nietzsche is often portrayed on television as being basic.

>> No.16537168

>>16536643
Nietzsche isn’t trying to teach any ideology, he is teaching the opposite. To figure things out individually

>> No.16537200

>>16536679
No it doesn't retard lmao

>> No.16537376

>>16536643
Nigga you figure out why. Jesus christ...

>> No.16538415

>>16537168
No, he directly teaches an ideology that has value judgement. His only use of """"nihilism""" was an active nihilism to destroy the old value system which he found utterly repulsive.

His magnum opus is him literally him making a new christ figure that preaches a new gospel of the overman. It is a complete rejection of libreal/christian/jewish value system that rules us today in favor of he called the true meaning of the earth. Objective Truth.

The reason that everyone does not understand Nietzsche is the fact they put no effort in, and the fact that the jew who translated Nietzsche deliberately butchered Nietzsche's ideas in order to fit in the liberal world order. Every American "intellectual" followed along. The jewish translator even has the gall to say that Nietzsche was a philosemite! You can point to many of his quotes - humorous ones at that - that are incredibly antisemtic! Every one of his many attacks on Christianity was an attack on Jews - "A Christian is merely a jew of freer confesion". The only people to realize anything close to his vision of a righteous world were the Nazi's - and that is why dumb, brainwashed Americans will never be capable of understanding the very basics of Nietzsche.

Now, I expect the "intelligent" poster that read the jewish introduction of "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" to refute and say the Nazi's completely misunderstood German philosophy man! Like they do every fucking Neitszche thread. Intellectual board my ass.

>> No.16538434

What work of his directly talks about systematization?

>> No.16538453

>>16538415
Cope

>> No.16538455

>>16536968
because his description of the problem of nihilism is about 20 times as convincing as the memery he presents as a solution

>> No.16538466

>>16536802
>new philosopher bad

>> No.16538480

>>16536658
No, just read Nietzsche.

>> No.16538507

>>16538415
So youre proNeetch and antiNeetch?

>> No.16538525

>>16538466
Hi Justin, you aren't a philosopher

>> No.16538551
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16538551

>>16538507
Nietzsche thinks the Jews started the esklavenmoral, but he also thinks antisemites are retarded and has respect for the Jewish intellect. He had at least one Jewish female friend whom he somewhat respected.

He did not use nihilism at all to destroy the judeo-christean esklavenmoral you absolute retard. He just showed how it's another symptom of the will to power of the weak.

>> No.16538556

>>16536643
Nietzsche doesn't really address any of the big questions. He's just piggybacking off the Skeptics like Hume. Like Hume or Rousseau he is a poet rather than a philosopher, a sophist who says much and reveals little. Little wonder that his mentor, Schopenhauer, is probably more retarded than him. Many philosophers have a part in their books, often the weakest part, where they say it is obvious that something. Schopenhauer commits this sin more than any other philosopher. Nietzsche is a bipolar faggot.

>> No.16538560

>>16538551
Shit wrong tag, this was for you:
>>16538415

>> No.16538578

>>16538551
He thought anti-semites were retarded because they were resentful. If someone just murdered the Jews because they thought they had bad hats idk how he could object given his retarded philosophy of forcing your perspective on others because you feel like it.

>> No.16538582

Nietzsche is modernity writ large.

He's very much got his hands in the pie in terms of the damage done to the West.

>> No.16538618

alright gonna ask here. never read nietzsche directly. what is the best english translation of his works to read?

>> No.16538690

>>16538455
This desu. "Bro just create your own morality" is one of the shittiest things I've ever heard of in my life.

>> No.16538697

>>16536643
I feel like it's because "postmodern" ideologies enable people's narcissistic and materialistic tendencies, and gives them a worldview and a sense of group identity to latch onto, despite many of those bonds being shallow and fragile among purity obsessed ideologues. Christian belief is largely inherited via family, and many American families today are broken and irreligious, and religion is seen as outdated and replaced by "science". Nietzsche is probably seen as outdated too. But I dont really know tbqh.

>> No.16538710

>>16538618
Walter Kaufman, there is literally no other English translation worth reading.

>> No.16538719

>>16538582
He's both the "damage" and the "cure" because they're one and the same.

>> No.16538764

>>16538578
forcing your will on others is not something you do because you feel like it

It happens involuntarily if you are the better man, it's why nietzsche is the moste bastest

>> No.16538772

>>16538710
are there ways to read them free online. i really dont feel like plopping money to read philosophy from the 19th century. and yet whenever i search kaufman its something i have to pay for

>> No.16538775

>>16538772
http://libgen.rs/search.php?req=nietzsche&open=0&res=25&view=simple&phrase=1&column=def
You can find any book for free on libgen.rs

>> No.16538825

>>16538578

pretty simplistic take desu

Nietzsche hated ressentment because he identified self-deception and dishonesty within the foundations of western philosophy. He also saw the will-to-power as the basic urge behind all life. These are orthogonal concepts. ofc someone can be resentful and impose their will on another, but that doesn't mean anything.

>> No.16538910

>>16538825
I have always find interesting how Nietszche "destroyed" Christianity/Judaism, but in reality his own morals and values are alligned with the ones found on such religions, not all of them of course but a good chunk of them.

>> No.16538946

>>16538910

maybe give examples?

to be totally divorced from the moral standard of your time requires superhuman ability, and is personified in the ubermensch. Nietzsche doesn't consider himself to be an ubermensch, so pointing out that some of this beliefs are based on Christianity/Judaism doesn't really mean anything.

But I disagree when you say when you claim a "good chunk" of his beliefs are aligned w/ those religions... much of his value system is based on the will to power and is a flat rejection of egalitarianism/liberalism. So what chunk are you referring to?

>> No.16539048

alrght can someone recommend me the best Nietzsche reader

>> No.16539060

>>16538772
>i really dont feel like plopping money to read philosophy from the 19th century.

This means it is contemporary philosophy. Philosophy moves really slowly. Things from 500 BC are still relevant today.

>> No.16539082

>>16538946
>hated ressentment because he identified self-deception and dishonesty within the foundations of western philosophy.
This quote of yours made me make my inital comment.
He was traditional on the role of man and woman. He was against nihilism and materialism. This are the major ones IMO and that the western faith also promotes.
I have to say he was more ruthless and this is where his main critique of the faith was, since it repressed almost all negative emotions from an individual instead of teaching them how to redirect that energy, making passive individuals and so "weak men".
Christ was a very interesting individual in this regard (and Nietzsche complimented him saying that he was the last True Christian), because although he followed most of the Law he wasn't shy of doing and expressing his own interpretations of the Law (making his own morals in a way).

>> No.16539095

>>16536643
Nietzsche is just vague ramblings, right wing post-modernism if you will. It's not a serious attempt at psychology or sociology or religion, he just pretends to all of them.

>> No.16539139

>>16539082
>making passive individuals and so "weak men".
Forgot to add to this idea, this same repression of negative emotion still leaks out, resulting in envy and resentment, making it pretty much a cycle. Creating in the end grumpy and weak men who cannot deal with it's existence.

>> No.16539181

>>16539082

I think western faith was invented to escape nihilism, but I don't think it posits nihilism as a problem to the extent that Nietzsche does.

Not sure what you mean about traditional man/woman roles. He was definitely traditional (by that, I simply mean a misogynist), but look at BGE 231. He says that the "problem ... about man and women" is a "sign-post to the problem we are ... to the great stupidity we are". I think he knew that his opinions on men and women were shaped strongly by his personal experiences w/ women. which is to say he was a stone cold loser and that informed his ideas on men and women. my point being that Nietzsche's actual opinion on men/women is much less interesting than its relation to his meta philosophy about self-deception and ulterior political/philosophical motives.

>> No.16539185

>>16539181

I forgot to mention, but for context BGE 231 precedes a long rant about how awful women are

>> No.16539193

convert to Islam

t. nietzsche

>> No.16539355

>About halfway through Beyond Good and Evil right now
Holy shit, is there any actual philosophy in here or is it just 200 pages of Nietzsche screeching about things doesn't like? Also lmao at the chapter with just maxims, Nietzsche literally calling himself a professional quote maker

>> No.16539529

Daily reminder that Deleuze is Catholic creationist, as this book explains http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=35F18F9D14D99AFAB5FFF7EADF6DCA06

>> No.16539616
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16539616

>>16536643
>Neetshee
Spooked. I do not need to create a moral system, especially if I am to be obligated to it. I do not need an ideal self in the Übermensch, for I am already perfect. I do not need to even care about others, I care only because I do.
All Things are Nothing to me and I base my affairs on Nothing

>> No.16539620

>>16539616
Nothing, a mere spook

>> No.16539627

>>16539620
To you, maybe, but spook as used by Stirner is an alien idea that the Ego (aka You, literally Chaos incarnate) views as superior to itself. The Ego is Nothing, but a Chaotic and Creative Nothing. Nothing as in undefinable and ever-changing, defined as Nothing as no thing can define it. But I'm also ramblt and sleepy

>> No.16539665

>>16536884
Fuck off Justin you owl faced ADHD cunt

>> No.16539683

>>16539355
Filtered hard, you hate to see it

>> No.16539695

>>16536679
this, logic of refutation is the biggest angl* fetish

>> No.16539710
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16539710

>>16539683

>> No.16539755

where do I start with Nietzsche lads

>> No.16539768

>>16539755
genealogy

>> No.16539772

>>16536738
that's not what retroactively means retard

>> No.16539927

>>16539772
Neetcha is etern

>> No.16540496
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16540496

>>16536643
>his ideology

>> No.16540631

>>16536782
more like Cringe Deleuze

>> No.16540697

>>16539082
>how can he be against Christianity if Christianity thinks man and woman roles exists and thinks nihilism and materialism is wrong??!?! don't he see he is christian??? xDDD
Nietzsche was absolutely right in saying Christians are subhuman filth.

Only the depravity that comes with being a slave moralizing dogmatic would ever even consider this to be a good take.

>> No.16540743

>>16539772
the conventional definition of retroactively was retroactively(retroactively) refuted by Guenonfag in 2018

>> No.16541209

>>16540697
who are you quoting?

>> No.16541496

>>16536643
Right filtered. Based

>> No.16541811

>>16538690
>Bro just create your own morality
Well.... can you?

>> No.16542184
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16542184

>>16539772
This is becoming my favorite meme