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/lit/ - Literature

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16535406 No.16535406 [Reply] [Original]

Just finished this kino. What is /lit/'s interpretation of the ending, Judge Holden and the themes of the book?

>> No.16535576

>>16535406
why dont you think about it for a while and come up with your own ideas about the book first rather than just parroting what /lit/ says

>> No.16535582

Lits interpretations of this book are often garbage anyway.

>> No.16535583

>>16535406
>LeRedditMeme.bmp

No idea what the fuck you are on about Anon but I can tell you I already hate it

>> No.16535585

>>16535406
One fella here a few weeks back had a pretty interesting interpretation of the characters in relation to the tarot according to Waite. See if you can find it in the archive.

>> No.16535624

>>16535406
who knows what it means. all I know is that I really want to burn indian village and rape mexican lolis now

>> No.16535657

>>16535585
With what name could I find this thread?

>> No.16535715

>>16535657
This is the only BM thread in the current archive.
>>16504072

>> No.16536461

will i have a worse time reading this if i watched No Country for Old Men?

>> No.16536466

>>16536461
...?

I don't understand what you're asking, anon

>> No.16536468

>>16536466
No country for old men is based off the book, so im asking if the plotline is mostly spoiled for me.

>> No.16536493

>>16536468
uh, the picture in the OP is a scene from Blood Meridian, not No Country For Old Men.

Yes, the film and the book are pretty damn similar, but honestly the book is still worth reading in my opinion: there are a couple scenes that go differently from the movie (including the final scene at the hotel between Bell and Chigurh), and near the end, some stuff that was cut out of the movie (like Moss and the hitchhiker)

>> No.16536505

>>16535406
>the ending
the man is killed in some horrifying way left undescribed. rape is not even implied, but a jewish critic brought it up out of nowhere (as they will) and now retards parrot it
>Judge Holden
gnostic archon, kicking against his ultimate ignorance by fastidiously learning about everything in the world, and ignorantly supposing himself to be immortal and beyond all law
>the themes of the book
the possibility of meaning when set against the darkest and most depraved aspects of experience, language as a way of setting order to chaos, the question of free will or determinism.
it has nothing to do with "regeneration through violence," much like the rape theory this is another random piece of random jewish critique that has nothing to do with the text in the book.

>> No.16536515

>>16536493
i know. that is why i am here, in your thread, asking. Thanks for the response.

>> No.16536551

>>16535406
Judge Holden is McCarthy's interpretation of Allah

>> No.16536570

>>16536551
>the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, neither sleep
>to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth
>Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave?
>He knows what lies before them and what is after them
> and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills

>> No.16536627

>>16536551
nah that's utterly random

>> No.16538127

Bro just shoot Judge Holden. Like, just pull the trigger. He's rapes and murders little kids, so he's a bad guy. So shoot him and you're a good guy. Simple stuff.

>> No.16538166

>>16538127

he sat on the fence until the end

>> No.16538177

>He quoted Coke and Blackstone, Anaximander, Thales.

interesting, since there's no Thales or Anaximander to quote

>> No.16538850

Why are boots and shoes so important?

>> No.16538925

I think the kid raped and killed the bear girl with the judge and the judge is dancing because he’s triumphant in winning the kid over to his side. I also think it’s intentionally ambiguous as I believe McCarthy thinks this is a necessary trait of all great works and he knew this was going to be his

>> No.16538943

>>16536505
>muh joos!

can you please fuck off already

>> No.16538973

>>16535624
lmao

>> No.16538980

>>16535406
It's about American industrial capitalism forcing everyone to be in competition with each other. Judge Holden is the hypothetical "winner" the one who is the best at everything, who is so good that he even beats the ultimate master death. Responsibility for wrongdoing is passed along at every turn until it ultimately lies at the feet of the judge, the ultimate evil which every other character uses to justify their own evil by comparison. The kid resists the judge's influence for the longest time by taking responsibility for his own actions, but when he treats his murder of the child in the epilogue as an inevitability, he is finally caught by the judge. It's cowboys because cowboys are the archetype of American masculinity that the bourgeoisie look up to, and it's Indians and the west to represent the victims of capitalist oppression (women and coloreds).
Not saying I agree with the book, but that's the only reasonable explanation.

>> No.16538983

>>16538943
>anytime anybody ever says anything mildly critical of jews
>da jooos!
It's the not the first category who are retards that contribute nothing, it's you.

>> No.16539247

Why was the name of the last chapter in German? "Sie muss schlafen, aber ich muss tanzen" or something like that. Is it a reference to something?

>> No.16539253

>>16538943
>joos
Excuse me? Try writing like an adult? I'm not going to stop noticing patterns just because you babble about it childishly.
>>16539247
Good question. "Sie mussen schlafen aber Ich muss tranzen." I dunno if it's a reference, Google Translate says it means "You have to sleep but I have to drink," I guess signifying the man dying and the Judge dancing and partying.

>> No.16539314

>>16539247
Faust

>> No.16539341

>>16536505
It also doesn’t say that he’s killed

>> No.16539363

>>16539247
>Sie muss schlafen, aber ich muss tanzen
Likely a variation on a line in this
https://www.deutschelyrik.de/hyazinthen.html

>> No.16539364

>>16539341
The text tells us at least that the two observers are horrified at something. What else? The "rape theory" people would have us believe, what, cum everywhere? That's not too plausible, but a murder certainly is. The judge directly threatens him right beforehand saying his soul will be required of him, and the German in the chapter title referring to "you have to sleep," make me feel confident saying he's somehow, some way, killed.

>> No.16539381

>>16539253
>I dunno if it's a reference, Google Translate says it means "You have to sleep but I have to drink"
Nah, it's definitely "dance" and not "drink".

>> No.16540100

>>16538925
based af take anon

>And the answer, said the judge. If God meant to interfere in the degeneracy of mankind
would he not have done so by now? Wolves cull themselves, man. What other creature
could? And is the race of man not more predacious yet? The way of the world is to
bloom and to flower and die but in the affairs of men there is no waning and the noon
of his expression signals the onset of night. His spirit is exhausted at the peak of its
achievement. His meridian is at once his darkening and the evening of his day. He loves
games? Let him play for stakes. This you see here, these ruins wondered at by tribes of
savages, do you not think that this will be again? Aye. And again. With other people,
with other sons.
>The judge looked about him. He was sat before the fire naked save for his breeches and
his hands rested palm down upon his knees. His eyes were empty slots. None among
the company harbored any notion as to what this attitude implied, yet so like an icon
was he in his sitting that they grew cautious and spoke with circumspection among
themselves as if they would not waken something that had better been left sleeping.

>> No.16540223

>>16535406
Check this out, its a good read.
https://www.academia.edu/28684283/Heraclitus_and_the_Metaphysics_of_War_in_Blood_Meridian

>> No.16540233

>>16538177
yes, it illustrates that a lot of what he says is made up bullshit

>> No.16540238

>>16538850
i'm gonna hafta kill some sunofabitch if e done took my boots

>> No.16540247

>>16539364
>both men are gone
>all that's left behind is the foulest, raunchiest shit anyone west of the Rio ever took
>the next day the outhouse had to be burned down and the town was abandoned

>> No.16540292

>>16538850

Y sus botas ..

>> No.16540485
File: 80 KB, 653x1024, holden_rite_thur.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16540485

>>16538925
I came to this same conclusion
the detail that proves it lies in the the men looking for the girl to purchase the bear hide. Once they look in the jake they simply go back inside and take the bear hide without any further attempts in finding the girl in order to barter for the bear hide.

>> No.16540881

>>16535406
Judge Holden is obviously an avatar of Shiva.

>> No.16540915

Judge Holden vs the man is supposed to be analogous to David vs Goliath. Except this time, Goliath wins.

>> No.16541053

>>16535406
Holden rapes his sister phoebe

>> No.16541095

I thought the kid was the man beside the outhouse telling the others not to look. There is a sentence about pulling up his trousers just as the kid did previous with the hooker. Judge ”winnning” by killing the kid feels cheap.

>> No.16541207

I think the judge in the end is not real but just in kid's mind. the kid embraces the judge at the end to means he embraces his ideas. the judge tells that there are many non yet born who will hate the "dauphin". that word was used to designate the heir of the french king, so i take that as meaning that the kid became the judge's heir, the man.
that's literally what the very 1st page said:
"the child the father of the man". in the child already then was present a taste for mindless violence and by the end of the book the kid embraces it

>> No.16542716

Bumping this thread

>> No.16544104

>>16539247
It’s something like,
“While they must sleep, I must dance.”

>> No.16544462

>>16544104
We know what it translates to, but why is it in German?

>> No.16544569
File: 365 KB, 828x745, 0010B7A2-BD5F-4931-AB79-9D17A6EAECB6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16544569

>> No.16545939

>>16535406
Should I read this?

>> No.16546103

>>16535406
I believe the judge shitted on the kid causing him to be unconscious. Which is he was naked during his dance.
>>16544462
Maybe because of the Prussian jew?

>> No.16547476

>>16545939
Yeah, it's a good read

>> No.16547490

>>16545939
what is currently your favorite novel?

>> No.16547494

>>16536505
No. The Kid is the Man that says don’t go in there. Because he already has gone in there and faced it for us. Same theme as No Country, and Lonesome Dove for that matter.

>> No.16547501

>>16538925
Zero reading Comprehension and zero discernment of theme.

>> No.16547502

>>16547494
>same theme as No Country, and Lonesome Dove
can you elaborate, this is intriguing

>> No.16547526

>>16541207
Doesn’t fit the theme. The Man accepts that there will always be violence, but that doesn’t mean he is a disciple. The Kid already won when he had his Jedi moment, his shots blessed by the priest in the gunfight. Like every Christian, we aren’t really powerful enough to destroy Lucifer. We can only resist him and thereby get salvation.

>> No.16547560

>>16547502
McCarthy writes about the same thing over and over. Meridian, Road, and No Country all share it. Its a fatherhood thing. You see it in Road when the father dies delivering his son to the future, and earlier when he gets emotional about the sextant. And in No Country when he’s talking about the new level of violence. Like the more civilized we are, the more cold and evil and violent we truly are. I think these all owe a lot to Lonesome Dove, the primary theme being today we fantasize about cowboys shooting things up, while the cowboy fantasized about the luxurious life even the poorest American has today. I know people get obsessed about BM being a treatise on violence, but it’s really just the same theme. The Kid is us, the everyman. He is absolute shit that transcends, becomes chosen by the enemy as an avatar of goodness, is blessed by the priest in the desert, his every shot is true, but he faces evil itself, an evil that man cannot personally destroy. He wins. He lives. He faces his own shadow, younger, stronger than himself, and beats it back. He walks STRAIGHT INTO CIVILIZATION in the end, sees, bizarrely, the same cruelties he experienced in the desert and worse. He sees evil itself waiting for him like a naked great white shark in an aquarium and closes the door on it, advising the modern folks in town not to look.

>> No.16547654

>>16547494
What was in the outhouse that was so shocking to the other two men then? If it was the Man advising the other two not to look in there, and the Judge was alive, who was in the toilet?

>> No.16547683

>>16541053
Holden rapes just about anything smaller than shetland pony he can get his hands on

>> No.16547832

he rapes his sister, pheobe

>> No.16547842

I thought about the ending for days and didnt care to search out what anyone has said.
Theres no answer OP, just the grip of the Judge so feel it lol

>> No.16547848

>>16536505
>rape is not even implied
the judge is a rapist tho

>> No.16547868

>>16541207
exceptionally wrong opinion

>> No.16548177
File: 13 KB, 588x409, 1598606352681.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16548177

>>16535624

>> No.16548619

>>16547868
we should probably fistfight to determine who is right. it's what judge would have wanted