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/lit/ - Literature

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16516168 No.16516168 [Reply] [Original]

>conflict is resolved
>107 pages remaining
what the FUCK was he thinking? good thing they cut this shit out in the movies..

>> No.16516170

>>16516168
The Scouring of the Shire is amazing.

>> No.16516249

>>16516168
The entire point of the scouring of the shire was to illustrate that the true conflict hadn't and never would truly be resolved. Evil will always need to be fought and you can't just go home and resume normal life after a war. Even the movies managed to just barely grasp this with Frodo's "there is no going back" monologue just before the Grey Havens.

>> No.16516303
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16516303

https://youtu.be/gDu0Q_MECwI

>> No.16516478

>>16516168
You got filtered.

>> No.16516498

>>16516168
Filtered.
Books that challenge the standard plot structure are based and redpilled

>> No.16516667
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16516667

>>16516249
One of the absolute best things about Lord of the Rings is that it does a really good job demonstrating the fact that combat with evil always leaves scars on the combatants. Metaphorically, for most people; literally, in Frodo's case. You don't battle demons, of any kind, without incurring some damage. This is extremely realistic and it's depicted in LOTR with great power.

I also love the message that's repeated over and over: that in defeating evil, much that is good and fair and beautiful might be lost forever, but evil should still be defeated anyway. This is something the Elves have come to terms with by the time of LOTR. Without the One Ring, the power of the Three Rings will go away, and so their ability to preserve and hold on to the grandeur and beauty of the Elvish ages of Middle-Earth will go away, too. But the Elves are willing to defeat Sauron anyway, because they've learned, by now, that no beauty, no elegance, no grandeur and loveliness, is worth a deal with the Devil. This is a lesson the Elves as a whole demonstrate, and it's very particularly driven home by the scenes where Galadriel is tempted by the Ring.

>> No.16517403

>>16516667
too bad none of this has any relevence to reality when it is not clear who is good and who is evil and it is a bunch of make believe cartoonish people

>> No.16517408

>>16517403
>when it is not clear who is good and who is evil

Yeah there is.

>> No.16517420

>>16517403
you fell for the "shades of grey" meme. all good-natured people are closet egoists and the debased just need a hug. fucking kill me lol

>> No.16517428

>>16516249
not to mention the idea of coming home from war finally only to find your home obliterated or changed in some way

>> No.16517449

>>16517408
look at modern day narratives. you can't tell who is lying. who is telling the truth. who is evil. both sides of the spectrum consider each other sauron.

>> No.16517468
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16517468

>>16517403

>> No.16517489

>>16517468
Is the baby girl transsexual?

>> No.16517498

>>16517428
I found the movie ending to be much more poignant. The idea of having achieved your goal only to find out you don't really have a home to return to since you've been outside of the cave and you carry the scars of what you've seen and done and you can't even relate to your people anymore so much so that you have to leave forever the very thing you set out to save to hit much harder than "Ahah I'm back you chumps to teach you about the evils of industrialization!"
Just a preference I guess

>> No.16517511

>>16517498
I think that is more jackson capturing the modern genx/y/zoomer mindset of never being satisfied. tolkien has them earning happiness and retiring

>> No.16517512
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16517512

>>16517489
The battlefield is within.
Against the ugly and unjust and immoral.

>> No.16517519

>>16516168
The whole book is garbage.

>> No.16517527

>>16517449
Why are you applying conventions of modern realist narratives to the Lord of the Rings?

>> No.16517528

>>16517511
Sounds an awful lot like projection but sure

>> No.16517530

>>16517498
>"Ahah I'm back you chumps to teach you about the evils of industrialization!"
That's your take on what Tolkien was doing? Wow, supremely shit take.

>> No.16517725

>>16517498
You need to be 18 to post here

>> No.16517734

>>16517530
Explain.

>> No.16517772

>>16517725
Will I be able to make such good arguments as you then?

>> No.16517971

>>16517498
agreed, not only is frodo scarred from his journey, he loses the ability to relate to most of "his people" who've never experienced the outside cruelty of the world surrounding the shire (at least in the movie since his home doesn't get wrecked), hobbits are content to be lazy care-free and ignorant of the events in the outside world as long as it doesn't effect them, but frodo has experienced the hardships he had to on his journey which his friends and family will never be able to know.
if he went back to the shire he wouldn't be able to view it in the same light as he did before the journey and as a result he would just probably feel more lonely living that existence separate from his peers than he would with the elves who HAVE experienced the pain of losing their way of life, friends or family to the evil in the world.

>> No.16518101

Yeah, I never liked the scouring of the shire, even having read the books before the movie, it just feels anticlimactic and kind of shits on Saruman a little too, imagine a maia (or former maia) being such a fuckup he cant even do a right job of taking the Shire and mostly just irrelevant to the whole story.

On rereads I tend to just skip it.

>> No.16518111

>>16516170
>superduper Angel on Earth wizardman runs off after trying to conquer the continent and takes over a couple of midget villages
>calls himself Sharky
>loses anyway

It's garbage even by the low standards of the book

>> No.16518146

>>16518111
How could one misunderstand Saruman this badly?

>> No.16518155

>>16517449
>applying modern narratives to myth
>being unable to tell who’s lying currently
Filtered by Tolkien and real life

>> No.16518180

>>16518101
Remember that Saruman has been broken at this point. The Maia are not unchanging or invulnerable - just as Sauron is destroyed because he became too "of this world" by imbuing his power into a physical object, Saruman also becomes too worldly, and then everything connecting him to his worldly power is taken from him (Orthanc) or broken (his staff).

Sharkey is a pale shadow of who Saruman was, and he can never go back.

>> No.16518264

>>16518180
This was clear even when we met him again as a beggar on the way back from gondor. I really don't see any need to have him come back as a mini boss in the end. Beside being anti climactic what does it achieve? Show us how far the hobbits have come? We should know that already. Learn how evil persists? We already know that with sauron. If anything I ended up thinking wow they really should have killed him back then even though sparing Gollum was a big deal
I don't get it

>> No.16518270
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16518270

>>16516667
Well said.

>> No.16518273

>>16518180
Thats part of what makes it irrelevant though, Saruman is already defeated and broken at this point.

>> No.16518322

>Steward of Gondor
>named Stuart

>Saurons minion
>named sauronman

really Tolkien?

>> No.16518432

>>16518322
>villain name his Hitler
>his sidekick is Himmler
Fucking really?

>> No.16518473

Nothing is as bad as Drogon the dragon.

>> No.16519160

>>16516168
these covers were so fucking beautiful

>> No.16519185

He was autistic about world building.

>> No.16519192

>>16516249
Great that he had to hamfist in some kind of morality lesson but it makes for terrible story telling

>> No.16519257

Not related to the OP but how did Gimli and Gandalf not know about Moria? Sounds like it was overrun for centuries before they went in

>> No.16519274

>>16516168
He took after a lot of Norse and Old English mythologies. Think of how Beowulf defeats Grendals mum and then it goes into that thing about the Dragon where Beowulf is killed. A lot of those old tales don't have a traditional climax, end of story thing

>> No.16519307

>>16517403
>it is not clear who is good and who is evil
We are talking about LOTR here, anon.

>> No.16519339

>>16518146
What did I not understand?

>> No.16519349

>>16518155
>le myth meme

It's still garbage

>> No.16519385

>>16519307
He's saying that LotR has no resemblance to reality. In LotR there's a clear division of good and evil and in reality there usually isn't.

>> No.16519391

>>16518322
Honestly this always bothered me. Can some autist tell me why tolkien named the villains minion after the villain?

>> No.16519403

>>16519391
Because he was a massive hack.

>> No.16519416

>>16519391
Sauron doesn't sound anything like Saruman