/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16467334]

How is the educational quality of college classes in any way superior or even equivalent to learning on your own? I don't want to complete YOUR assignment. I don't care about YOUR rules, or YOUR schedule or syllabus. I'm not paying the $75-$250 for the subpar book you want me to use instead of this highly rated free PDF. How is this beneficial to any reasonably intelligent person; someone who actually reads on their own?

I'm being paid to go with zero debt and I still don't see value. All of this garbage just to network and for *potentially* a job you don't want anyway. Why can't we just learn on our own and take an exam to prove our knowledge? I'd have a bachelors degree in 1 year instead of 4-5.

[Anonymous No.16467363]

You don't go to college to learn. You go there for a piece of paper. All high IQ people know this.

[Anonymous No.16467403]

As the first anon said, you go to uni to get the degree, not to learn. This system is designed to fleece you of your cash and to burden you with debt. There's a ton of jobs that don't require higher education but companies won't hire unless you have a paper that certifies you're not retarded.
Incredibly jewish scheme

[Anonymous No.16467440]

>>16467334
>How is the educational quality of college classes in any way superior or even equivalent to learning on your own?
It's not, but sadly you have to be granted one of their meme papers to be taken seriously in any field. Which is bullshit, as many great philosophers and thinkers were self-taught or learned in a much less formal academic environment than modern bureaucratic universities, but good luck ever getting your paper published unless you have the letters "phd" after your name.
t. financially ruining myself to get a PhD. in philosophy so people will take my ideas seriously.

[Anonymous No.16467443]

>>16467334
Poverty mindset.

[Anonymous No.16467451]

>>16467363
This. You go to college to help land you a job, you don't actually go there to learn

[Anonymous No.16467503]

>>16467363
>>16467451
To add, debt is also a spook and there are means of indefinitely postponing your student loans. To date I've repaid less than $300 after 10 years. I own a house now (100%) and have a good bit of savings from coming from absolutley nothing. I also plan to rack up more debt if I ever lose my job and go to medical school. I'll never pay back even a fraction of it and if they ever come after me, I'll produce children and transfer everything to them and in any case, by the time I'm 40 I'm going for SSDI and will seek a medical discharge anyways. I don't owe anyone shit. Society owes me for gracing them with my presence.

[Anonymous No.16468159]

>>16467503
Based and Deadbeatpilled

[Anonymous No.16468168]

I think that having peers to discuss the same material with is useful, as is having a professor who is well versed in it to be able to answer questions and challenge you in the areas you aren't even aware of that you lack. I think it's over priced and the quality has dropped over the years, but I think there's value in it.

[Anonymous No.16468192]

>>16468168
>I think that having peers to discuss the same material with is useful
Its detrimental because they are midwits.

[Anonymous No.16468196]

>>16468192
Right, and I admitted that later in the post when I said the quality has dropped over the years. Other people being stupid is only because they haven't been taught how to not be retarded.

[Anonymous No.16468208]

>>16467440
Good luck Anon.

[Anonymous No.16468374]

>>16467334
Seriously, read books and learn about subjects your interested, and take up a trade. You'll thank me later.

[Anonymous No.16468427]

>>16468374
What is the point when you are unable to contribute in any way professionally? You will never reach the level you would have if you majored in it and then attended graduate school for it, not even close.

[Anonymous No.16468458]

>>16468427
Grad students are almost exclusively mouthbreathers, independent study is the only condition for actual growth.

[Anonymous No.16468477]

Having access to professors who you can visit and have one hour long conversations with is invaluable.

[Anonymous No.16468490]

>>16468477
It's valuable-ish. I've spoken to anons who are more knowledgeable than most professors.

[Anonymous No.16468498]

>>16468458
>independent study
University beyond the first semester is independent study.

[Anonymous No.16468531]

>>16468498
You're wrong, because no one studies and everyone bullshits their way through instead.

[Anonymous No.16468550]

>>16468531
>>16468490
>>16468458
Speak for yourself.

[Anonymous No.16468554]

University isn't a place to learn, its just a gatekeeper to the wagecage in 2020. All these literal fucking wageslave debt serf hylics spouting woke shit on campus would have been toiling the field a mere one hundred or so years ago.

[Anonymous No.16468557]

>>16468550
Cope.

[Anonymous No.16468564]

>>16467334
This is a fair criticism, and some early level college lit courses are how you describe but they get better and more useful. I think the best thing they do is guide your reading and help you to become better at reading. Also doing assignments is cringe but it truly does help you understand the work better

[Anonymous No.16468571]

>>16468557
You are, clearly. Have fun with your trade and pretending you're some equal to a PhD because you read a book while mocking them when you know nothing in comparison.

[Anonymous No.16468572]

>>16468498
this would be true if there weren't professors that demand their students agree (at least on paper) to the prerogative of internationalization, postmodern relativism, eating the bug and living in the pod.
>>16468531
also this

[Anonymous No.16468581]

>>16468571
lol go do a ted talk or something einstein

[Anonymous No.16468582]

>>16468572
See a psychiatrist.

[Anonymous No.16468587]

>>16468582
>(((psychiatrist)))

[Anonymous No.16468591]

>>16468571
I'm not the anon with the trade, I fell for the academia meme and now have to tolerate vapid student and professors for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous No.16468594]

>>16468490
What professors have you talked to and what subject did they teach?

[Anonymous No.16468607]

>>16467334
I've had professors provide insight and focused directions that were worthwhile. I don't speak ancient Greek, my classics prof does.He's also spent a lifetime teaching the subject and has distilled the process into something very effective. That being said 4 of my 5 classes are totally worthless and exist solely to steal my time, money, and hope. It's a socialization process I guess, breaking you to fit into a mold of sorts by assailing you with arbitrary bullshit that the world insists is very important.

[Anonymous No.16468612]

>>16468591
You're just an idiot blaming the world for his inadequecy, then. It's not everyone else.

[Anonymous No.16468614]

>>16468591
I'm the anon that suggested he study a trade. I graduated with an IR degree a couple of months ago, but having seen the meme first hand, I wouldn't recommend anybody spend too much time at a university. If I could go back I definitely would take up a trade, and study topics and literature that interest me on my own time.

[Anonymous No.16468629]

>>16467503
Unquestionably based
any other advice, king?

[Anonymous No.16468673]

The only reason to go to university in the modern era is to be a better wagie. The only reason to be a better wagie is to finance tyrone, leshawnda, jesus and juanita.
Fuck university and fuck contributing to this society. Make enough money to provide for a modest lifestyle while contributing as little as possible.

[Anonymous No.16468724]

>>16468594
History and philosophy.
>>16468612
Cope.
>>16468614
One of my Gen X friends went back to university to take an IR degree, absolute disaster. He was a normal person before, but he's an intolerable NPC now. The shit they teach them, man.

[Anonymous No.16468731]

>>16468724
Cope.

[Anonymous No.16468742]

>>16468724
its indoctrination plain and simple

[Anonymous No.16468842]

>>16467334
The only reason university exists is to get that piece of paper that supposedly helps you get good jobs and a good life, but even then that's only good for STEM virgins, and even then it's not guaranteed to get you anything.
It's a waste of fucking time, that's all it is, what you should do is focus little in university and work on your own projects and learn what you want on your own time. University is something you do to keep your parents or family off your back and not have assholes say you're a lazy neet with no future for not studying anything.
I think connections and skills do a lot more than a degree, most people who get good jobs get them out of connections or skills or nepotism. Do degrees help? Sure, but so do the things I mentioned before

[Anonymous No.16469749]

>>16468629
Savings in designated retirement accounts are exempt from lawsuits and bankruptcy surrenderment and can be withdrawn from early without penalty upon obtaining disability at any age instead of waiting till 59 and 1/2. If you are self employed or work remotely, consider non physical residency in states without income tax. If you list your address as from a state without sales tax, you can pay online and tell them you've made private shipping arrangements and just go and pick it up. Purchase a diesel vehicle (may I suggest a 2014 Porsche Cayenne Diesel) and get home heating oil number 2 delivered to your house to never pay fuel taxes again.

[Anonymous No.16469767]

>>16467440
Have you tried submitting papers to journals before starting your PhD.? I'm very curious to hear more about how that went.

[Anonymous No.16470032]

>>16467334
A room with no windows to sit there for hours. I hate modern universities. I already feel uncomfortable looking at that picture.
College is rarely better for most people. Most of my classes are a waste of time. Lecturers don't want to invest time, so they let students hold mediocre presentations instead. The discussions are rarely better than Facebook discussions, usually worse.
There was one occasion where a professor liked me a lot and shared very valuable knowledge with me that I haven't heard anywhere else. Not that it will be of use for me in the future and still not worth years of my best time for that bit of information.
I went to university for
- the degree to please my family
- the degree to get a job
- the degree to emigrate easier
- the degree to homeschool my own children (some states require an academic background for that)
- meeting young people for friendship and romance.
I'm almost done, just a few more months. Sadly Corona ruined and delayed my plans.

[Anonymous No.16470062]

>>16470032
> meeting young people for friendship and romance.
this is the only non-materialistic reason I go to uni and I made a handful of friends and found zero women to my liking. thanks for nothing.

[Anonymous No.16470103]

>>16467334
>I don't want to complete YOUR assignment. I don't care about YOUR rules, or YOUR schedule or syllabus.
I guess thats the point. You are forced to do things outside of your comfort zone and initiated into the field by people who know their shit. Because people who learn things on themselves without their opinions and level of knowledge being tested by society, are rarely capable of developing into worthwhile experts.

Altough I guess you are coming from muttistan. With education being just another paid product to consume and a culture of everyone being a special snowflake entitled to their own opinion, I can understand why would one choose position against higher education.

[Anonymous No.16470179]

>>16467334
I was a bright (GATE program) kid who did shit in school because a mix of alienation and and muh nihilism.
Went to community college for a month. Stopped because it was worse quality than my specialized public schools.

Was getting taught in 101s what was expected to be known to us in middle school.
I had holocaust class and there are people who legitimately only had a vague idea of what it was. Were comparing truml to nazis etc
In English 101 classes we were learning how to use microft word, reading about toxic masculinity, gay peopls and shiet.
Media Communications prof was old "liberal" Jew woman who hated Trump and made that clear in every class. I liked her though, had some charm and it was nice getting taught by the experts.
Had two philosophy classes which were pretty ok, people would be sleeping sometimes. Some kid was snoring loudly once for a bit longer than he should have.

Student body was a mix raced, lower class body with some immigrants too. It's what you can expect out of the future demographics of this country.
They're certainly more down to earth than the petite bourgeoisie mass of people in normal colleges but they're not the kind of people you'd really like to learn them.
A far cry from the masses of chinks I went to public school with.

Anyway I couldn't take it for a month so now I'm a NEET.
The only jobs I can do are service industry(good luck finding a job kek) or working in some amazon warehouse.
Searching and applying for jobs is more effort than the jobs require, competing with thousands of other people, 3 interviews to secure a retail job, 100 word online questionnaires, unpaid internships.
Overall I really dislike life and want to kms desu. I didn't sign up for this shit. Also kizzless virgin (but its ok)
Maybe I'm just entitled desu

[Anonymous No.16470194]

>>16467334
The truth is that no classroom environment can do for you what you can do for yourself IF the thing driving your education is personal obsession. If you wake up in the morning and all you want to get done is more reading, then school will certainly slow you down. BUT this lacks the critical environment of the classroom and the guidance around certain pitfalls that you would otherwise not see.

[Anonymous No.16470230]

>>16467334
I was a bright (GATE program) kid who did terrible in school because of a mix of alienation and and muh nihilism.
Went to community college for a month. Stopped because it was worse in quality than my specialized public schools.

Was getting taught in 101s what was expected to be known to us in middle school.
I had holocaust class and there are people who legitimately didn't know what it was, were comparing trump to nazis etc
In English 101 classes we were learning how to use micosoft word, reading about toxic masculinity, feminism, gay peoples and shiet.
Media Communications prof was old "liberal" Jew woman who hated Trump and made that clear in every class. I liked her though, she had some chutzpah and it was nice getting taught by the experts.
Had two philosophy classes which were pretty ok, people would be sleeping sometimes. Some kid was snoring loudly once for a bit longer than he should have.

Student body was a mix raced, lower class body with some immigrants too. It's what you can expect out of the future demographics of this country.
They're certainly more down to earth than the petite bourgeoisie mass of people in normal colleges but they're not the kind of people you'd really like to learn with.
A far cry from the sea of chinks I went to muh special public school with.

Anyway I couldn't take it for a month so now I'm a dropout NEET.
The only jobs I can do are service industry(good luck finding a job kek) or working in some amazon warehouse.
Searching and applying for jobs is more effort than the jobs themselves require, competing with tens of thousands of other people for a single job, 100 word online questionnaires, 3 interviews to secure a retail job, and unpaid internships.

Overall I really dislike life and want to kms desu. I didn't sign up for this. Also kizzless virgin (but its ok) and have no frens (don't meet new people) kinda hard when you're a NEET who stopped talking to old friends and has. no social footing to step on.
Maybe I'm just entitled desu

[Anonymous No.16470257]

>>16467334
It isn't. Autodidactism is the way IQ gods learn.

[Anonymous No.16470357]

>>16470257
Formal education will always be at the very lest more efficient because you have someone who at the very least is alleged to be an expert in your field challenging and evaluating your work. In most cases, this often stops individuals from going down bad paths and allow for quicker improvement.
Autodidacticism just requires time and a sense of humility most people don't have.

[Anonymous No.16470365]

>>16467334
Imagine needing to be taught by midwits on what a genius thought instead of reading them for yourself

[Anonymous No.16470378]

>>16468554
whats the point stemfags heavily outnumber open positions. Where I live electromechanicians and electro-mechanical technicians start with higher wages than EE.

[Anonymous No.16470385]

>>16468673
but having a stable and simple life with a simple job is nearly impossible because the landjew.

[Anonymous No.16470398]

>>16467334
It's worse than learning on your own. When you learn on your own, you actually learn. When you "learn" in class, you only care about what's needed to get a good grade. You can get a 4.0 in most degrees by just highlighting every word that's in bold in the textbook.

All the intelligent people will study the subject in their own time, beyond what's needed for class. So they're still teaching themselves. The only reason these people bother with the degree in the first place is because they want to embed themselves into the institutional structure of their field of choice, or they want a nice teaching job.

[Anonymous No.16470484]

>>16470230
Just go to a proper uni and get a proper degree if you’re not actually just a brainlet

[Anonymous No.16470520]

>>16467334
>I don't want to complete YOUR assignment. I don't care about YOUR rules, or YOUR schedule or syllabus
K. Don't.
/thread

[Anonymous No.16470538]

>>16467334
I learned more of thermodynamics and fluid mechanics during quarantine. Though this is more of a /sci/ thing, it made me think if going back to college and sitting through boring lectures would be worth it.

[Anonymous No.16470548]

You get good material that will help you learn faster. You also stay focused better.

[Anonymous No.16470577]

>>16470484
my sat score was shiet (1100) and my highschool gpa was lower than 2.0
i dropped out of community college

i wont be accepted.
besides I already wasted two years, not a STEM fag and only into humanities shit historyphilosophy/politics/arts
want to do trade job but even apprenticeships require prior experience in trade school, so that's my other option besides going back to college (people still think i'm attending)

all i want to do is live my life frugally with a decent wage but low hours so i can have enough free time to exercise creativity and perhaps one day make a breakthrough

it's not going to happen

[Anonymous No.16470600]

studying is free in my cunt, I'm going there for paper. it'd be nice to live somewhere close, because I live 70 minutes away by two buses and it's unreliable
so the only "debt" I can get into is by renting an apartment

[Anonymous No.16470622]

>>16467363
In addition, you go to college to NETWORK. Meet that trust fund babby whose dad will give you a job after college. Find that frat brother in the industry you want to pursue and ask 'em for an opportunity. Fuck, just find people with the same passions as you and start a project together. There's a lot more to college than just a slip of paper. Network well, and your whole world opens up.

[Anonymous No.16470670]

>>16470577
Go to vocational school and learn a trade. You sound like a lazy, unmotivated bum who makes excuses and blames others for his own failure.

[Anonymous No.16470681]

[Anonymous No.16470704]

>>16470670
i am a lazy unmotivated bum that does not blame others for his failures

[Anonymous No.16470719]

>>16467363
And you go there to prove to employers that you're a good boy will pliably jump through hoops for four years in a simulation of office work.
That said you can still learn stuff in college if you actively pursue that goal. You can still learn stuff in any situation if you're driven to it, but a good college has all the resources to do so.

[Anonymous No.16470743]

>>16470719
>but a good college has all the resources to do so
So does the internet, I might add. The thing is taking a class in something and having the reinforcer of a grade on it hanging over your head and a teacher who knows how to teach it, you can potentially learn more.

[Anonymous No.16470978]

>>16467503
Holy based you should start loan counseling for high school students

[Anonymous No.16471772]

>>16468531
u r mentally handicapped to think this. how tf am I gonna bullshit a thesis. even if I you read my thesis and determined it b.s. like, I wrote that shit on my own

[Anonymous No.16471786]

>>16468490
like when I need help I'm just gonna keep rolling the dice with anons until someone smart comes up.

[Anonymous No.16471984]

>>16467334
Put it this way, if there were a qualification that could certify that you had a servile personality that enjoyed not only following orders but acclimatising to a set of impressions that an intellectual authority gave you, and that you enjoyed having a large social organisation control almost all of your life, that you were willing to financially commit years of loyalty to an institution and so on, don’t you think employers would be more willing to hire you if they could be certain you were willing to play the game like that? That is a lot of the value of a university education, it also signifies intelligence and knowledge too but the average Ivy League IQ is literally only 110 and the knowledge isn’t nearly worth what you pay for it.
It’s a signifier of a hyper socialised servile personality, that’s it’s real value.

[Anonymous No.16472437]

>>16470230
>>16467334
The first semester /quarter is always terrible. College is great after that.

[Anonymous No.16472575]

>>16467334
Well, not that you'll believe me, but as a decent prof, I know many things you don't about the subject area. I can answer questions you have and ones you might not think to ask. I can challenge you with assignments you won't see the point of until later, and readings you would never do without a grade depending on a later exam. Most 18 year-olds don't know much yet, though they often feel they're a shining exception to that rule. But given your attitude, I beseech you not to go to any college. You might end up in one of my classes, and life is irritating enough for both of us without that. You keep your precious textbook money, and we'll keep our degree.

[𒂊𒊑𒀁𒌅 !!ph+3gMFUUxd No.16472603]

>>16467363
This. All that said, I don't think I'd recommend that Americans go to uni. Better off doing some kind of trades program that costs one fiftieth of an undergrad degree.

[Anonymous No.16472644]

>>16470230
Join the resistance. Kill journalists. Vote with a bullet. Don't kill yourself, kill others. Fuck this shit-ass country.

[Anonymous No.16472656]

>>16467334
The value of the education doesn't come from the classes alone, it comes from someone with credentials validating that you demonstrate competence. When you're teaching yourself there's no one to tell you you're wrong. There's no way to find out. The professor is supposed to be able to evaluate this and sign off that you understand it.

[Anonymous No.16472768]

>Professors and lecturers put up the materials for free
>The more you print the less it costs per page
My textbooks and the literature that I didn't already own costed like 80 bucks at the local printshop.ú
It's a Yank problem, yet again.

[Anonymous No.16473392]

>>16472644
journalists are only useful idiots and killing individuals is useless

[Anonymous No.16473468]

>>16467334
It's more efficient as well as one on one time with knowledgeable profs and established professionals

[Anonymous No.16473586]

>>16473468
>more efficient
Not for someone motivated. Most people aren't motivated though.
>one on one time
You can get that for free if you live near a university. Just look up their office hours and start talking to them. Lie and say that you're a student and a friend said you should talk to them. As long as you have something interesting to talk about they won't care.

University (in the US) is a scam necessitated by rampant credentialism. Anyone with a brain goes for whatever is most likely to pay well and learns what they want in their free time.

[Anonymous No.16474169]

Bump

[Anonymous No.16474204]

>>16473468
Reading textbooks and solving challenges or participating in online discussions is all of the benefits of college and none of their penalizations or inconveniences of it.
Taking Humanities courses only trained me in coming up with extremely convoluted non-explanations for questions and bullshitting my way into stuffing the references section of research papers and essays so as to seem like I had a serious and totally-not-generic opinion to express.

[Anonymous No.16474276]

>>16472575
Good post.
t. Undergrad who spends as much time as possible talking to grad students and professors. Hopefully one day I will be as good as then. My greatest fear is that I will end up a pseud like Alan Mikhail (see https://oajournals.fupress.net/index.php/cromohs/debate))

[Anonymous No.16474296]

>>16467334
It's only ever you educating yourself. Pre-internet having centralized libraries and guides through them was more important -- the priest class' gatekeeping now has to hand the reigns back over to true sages (provided they're publishing/producing content). Mostly it's for blue bloods to find blue blood mates and debt enslave the remainder.

[Anonymous No.16474336]

>>16474296
Nock has a good passage about educating yourself:

When I was eight years old I began to study Latin and Greek under—what shall I say? Should I say under my father's teaching, instruction, direction, supervision, tutorship? No, I have precisely the right word in mind, but unfortunately the dictionaries say it is not a good word; that is, they say so by implication, for they do not mention it at all. My able and distinguished friend Mr. Charles A. Beard long ago remarked to me how sorry he was that the word l'arn, so well and truly seasoned by hard service in New England, should have gone completely out of currency as a transitive verb. "You can't teach a person anything," he said, "and certainly you can't learn him anything, but maybe you can l'arn him something." There is a nice distinction here, and one so highly valuable as to seem especially well worth preserving for the sake of those whose concern with pedagogy is professional; and yet I suppose it is a dynasty of doctrinaire schoolmarms of both sexes which has done most to wipe it out.
I do not recall that my father ever taught me anything, but in the course of two years, no question, he l'arned me a huge deal of Greek and Latin. It was all done informally and briefly;
he never tried to do more than keep my chin above water. We had no schedule, no fixed daily tasks, no regular hours. When he had time, he would ask me what I had been up to, try me
out on the knotty bits to make sure I had got them properly straightened up, throw in a word or two here and there which usually anticipated something lying ahead, and that was all there was to it. In the first instance, my interest in these studies, or rather my curiosity about them, was sprung by noticing that the dictionary gave so many of our words as coming from these sources. Naturally, however, it was not long before I became interested in the languages on their own account and rather keen to know what the people who spoke them were like and what they did with themselves. For these reasons, I suppose, pottering about with the languages never seemed like work to me, and I can take no credit whatever to myself for any proficiency which may have come of it; no more than for my proficiency, or lack of proficiency, at billiards, baseball, tennis,
teaching, writing, editing, or any one of the many pursuits to which I have set a 'prentice hand in the course of my life. Certainly no one ever pointed my nose towards Rome and Athens; in fact, I had puzzled out the Greek alphabet correctly and
memorised it before my father took hold, or, (I think), even before he noticed what I was about. I took up the job on my own, kept at it as I pleased, and was fully prepared to drop it if it failed to pan out. Apparently it is in the constitution of man that nothing done under these conditions seems like work.

[Anonymous No.16474340]

>>16467334
Someone just got a bad grade. Learning you're retarded is hard but c'mon, you're here so you must have already had some suspicions?

[Anonymous No.16474362]

>>16474336
This is what university is supposed to be like.

[Anonymous No.16474414]

>>16474362
He has a whole book about education in the US, writing right around the time where they scrapped the classical curriculum and replaced it with basically what we have now. If you're interested:
https://mises.org/library/theory-education-united-states-0

[Anonymous No.16474456]

>>16472575
Ideally I want to be you but I hope by then I'm not still on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.16474462]

>>16472603
Trades are all gonna disappear to automation. America is going to a full thinky pain and waiter service based economy within my lifetime. Icecream will be produced inside down and you milk them for soft serve. They will be abundant and free like the ducks at the park. Utopia.

[Anonymous No.16474545]

>>16472575
This post is a perfect example of whats wrong with academia
>I don't like you
>I don't agree with your ideas
>polemics and controversy are bad
>you don't get my special paper
Professors are gatekeepers, the most successful people in academia are midwits at best, sellouts at worst.

[Anonymous No.16474602]

>>16470681
this

[Anonymous No.16474642]

>>16474462
I'm necking myself at 65 so they'd better hurry up with that soft serve icecream milking machine doohickey

[Anonymous No.16474992]

This thread was moved to >>>/b/836927159