/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16448593]

Why don't people on the Left read old books?

[Anonymous No.16448607]

Why would you want to read a book with outdated, marginalising views about race, women, LGBTQI issues, etc.?

[Anonymous No.16448628]

>>16448593
Well they do, but a big thing with them is their concept of progress, they think things are getting better in all sorts of ways, so it is natural that they focus on more recent writers. Marx is the closest thing they have to an archaic text they admire I guess.

[Anonymous No.16448673]

They do but with a different set of eyes. They try to interpret many grand stories as excerpts of class struggle and other forms of historical materialism. Leftist interpretations of Pic Related are good example of this.

[Anonymous No.16448694]

>>16448593
Another
>Why doesn't X read/do X
Stop

[Anonymous No.16448696]

>>16448673
Leftist interpretations are so boring

[Anonymous No.16448711]

>>16448673
Inexplicably, ledditors love this book.

[Anonymous No.16448722]

>>16448673
So basically taking out the wonder, spirit, and beauty of a work

[Anonymous No.16448773]

>>16448607
just fuck off

[Anonymous No.16448789]

>>16448607
I know it's bait but you do so in order to understand history.

[Anonymous No.16448798]

>>16448673
>>16448696
>>16448722
It's all so tiresome.

[Anonymous No.16448983]

>>16448628
Modern leftists believe in individual will, representation, a measure of bourgeois markers of equality regulated by that representative government... There is nothing Marxist about it. If anything this obsessive focus on individual choice, self-definition and fairness comes from 19th century philosophers of the Will like fucking Nietzsche and Schopenhauer distorted through a type of pop Rawlsian deliberative democracy advocated by fucking twitter/comedy central democrats.

[Anonymous No.16448996]

>>16448983
You've never heard of cultural marxism then.

[Anonymous No.16449004]

>>16448593
>Why don't people on the Left read old books
Why do retards say stupid shit like this unironically?

[Anonymous No.16449011]

>>16449004

Have you ever seen a left-winger read something written before the year 1800 for pleasure or edification?

[Anonymous No.16449016]

They unironically think this >>16448607

And even if they do read old books, they try to read it not to learn their content but in order to pass their "superior moral judgment" on them.

[Anonymous No.16449029]

>>16449011
>>16449016
Take your meds and stay off Twitter

[Anonymous No.16449031]

is there a coherent argument against being progressive anywhere?

[Anonymous No.16449049]

>>16449031
Thomas Sowell

[Anonymous No.16449051]

>>16448593
they don't fucko. They read more oldies than the right.

[Anonymous No.16449055]

>>16449029
>Take your meds
Why do guys say this so much, what is your obsession with politicizing mental illness. Lefties used to criticize that

[Anonymous No.16449060]

>>16449051
>fucko
t. reddit

[Anonymous No.16449064]

>>16449029
https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2020/09/david-humes-name-removed-from-university-building-as-new-term-begins/

And I don't even like Hume.

[Anonymous No.16449070]

>>16449031

Hayek's evolutionary argument for tradition is persuasive. Time melts away beliefs are practices that are unsuited for man's continued survival. Progressivism risks doing away with useful traditions whose import isn't obvious. Similarly, they might introduce too many new things too fast for the unsuitable to fall away with minimal suffering.

[Anonymous No.16449076]

>>16449031
What do you mean by "progressive"?

[Anonymous No.16449082]

>>16449070
i can understand that, but how do you reconcile that with hanging on to practices that people perceive to be harmful to them?

[Anonymous No.16449097]

>>16449051
>They read more oldies than the right.
Then why do they push so hard for hedonism?

[Anonymous No.16449098]

>>16449070
le fat catholic man's fence

[Anonymous No.16449100]

>>16449082

Patience is key. If the practices are truly harmful, they'll almost certainly disappear within a century or two. Of course, that's assuming exposure to reality. Those who persist in their folly shouldn't be shielded from its consequences. Negative outcomes are the school-mistress of history.

[Anonymous No.16449111]

>>16449100
but that's asking people to put up with shit they don't like for some higher abstract reason. is it then the role of government to be staunchly conservative in all matters?

[Anonymous No.16449112]

>>16449082
I'm not him.
Lately, progressives have been arguing against monogamy and traditional marriage. Why should we believe them?

[Anonymous No.16449133]

>>16449111
>is it then the role of government to be staunchly conservative in all matters?

The conservative approach I favor is the "live and let live (or die)" one. Government should not intrude on matters of tradition. Let them stand, or fall, on their own merits.

[Anonymous No.16449163]

>>16449133
well can you give an example of where you think government is intruding on matters of tradition right now? i want to say that very often, doing "nothing" is a defense of the status quo.

[Anonymous No.16449205]

>>16449163

Governments intrude on matters of tradition when they prevent or interfere with people trying to do things their own way. Take homeschooling for example. In Germany, you can be imprisoned for attempting it. In America and Canada, it is strictly constrained. A more neutral approach would allow alternative education schemes to bloom. In time, many of these would wither, but we'd all be better off for having had so many historical lessons on what works, and what doesn't.

[Anonymous No.16449211]

>>16449163
Not him:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8745357/Ofsted-officials-mark-schools-dont-teach-pupils-LGBT-relationships.html

And progressives don't use only the government to brute force take away traditions. They use their power in other ways, as well.

[Anonymous No.16449220]

>>16449205
What do krauts have against homeschooling? Are they afraid of some parents being secret nazis or some shit?

[Anonymous No.16449223]

Stop replying to the limp-wristed bugman LARPing as Socrates

[Anonymous No.16449231]

>>16449220
Liberals usually oppose homeschooling since they view it as a way for conservative parents to not have their children be taught progressive views.

[Anonymous No.16449253]

>>16448607
>LGBTQI issues
lost

[Anonymous No.16449280]

>>16449205
homeschooling is practically unheard of in my country, but i don't know the exact law on the subject. you can easily turn that around and make the argument you are throwing kids under bus for the sake of the parents. at what point is the kids right to a good education more important than the parents rights to control their kid?

>>16449211
so you would argue sex education in schools should not mention that homo relationships exist out in the real world? would that be doing good by the kids?

>>16449231
but you can easily flip that around again and say that libs oppose homeschooling, because it is a way for conservatives to indoctrinate their children, and not prepare them for the real world. this is the issue.

[Anonymous No.16449301]

>>16449280
You asked for examples of "the government intruding on matters of tradition". Those were examples of this, regardless of you agreeing with the governments or not.
You didn't ask for examples of "the government intruding on matters of tradition in ways that you don't agree with"

[Anonymous No.16449309]

>>16449301
allright

[Anonymous No.16449390]

>>16448593
Some do, but typically they try to fit it into the lens of
>How does this represent the struggles of the minority against the majority?
This is also a method of interpretation pushed by modern academia, primarily public schools at least in America.

Other times they'll just disregard the work as being written by an author who had outdated, racist, sexists, etc. views of society and people and shouldn't be taken seriously. Leftists just LOVE attacking the author rather than the writings, typically because they either,
A) Didn't bother reading it.
or
B) Don't have a good counterargument against it.
Nothing infuriates me more than recommending a book to one of my leftist co-workers and having them do a quick Google search on the author and telling me they won't read it because the author said, "Nigger" at one point in his life.

[Anonymous No.16449434]

>>16448593
>>16449011
A lot of leftist have read Voltaire in France.

[Anonymous No.16449620]

>>16449098
i like using the mumu wonder's fence. its a great question to ask people. and i find two things happen. firstly, they will justify traditions as only being methods of oppression. it is easy enough to argue most traditions from a positive position. Secondly, i ask what their alternative is. i will then argue that it will cause the same problems they saw in the original tradition. le cape and swordstick man's fence is an excellent mechanism for critical thinking and discussion.

[Anonymous No.16449667]

>>16448593
They think they are superior to anyone from before current year because of "progress"

[Anonymous No.16450911]

>>16448593
I wish Carlyle's work was edited and widely available

[Anonymous No.16450919]

>>16448607
This is the thought process

[Anonymous No.16450987]

In approximately 1700 years the west has been socially held back by the judeo-christian yoke, and as such the brave minds which rejected its dogmatic bullshit are few and far between. A lot have been victims of their age and can't be expected to comply with our social standards, but since rightoids are squalidly illiterate they will honestly believe everyone was on their side back then. Milton would have been an atheist had he been bord in our age.

[Anonymous No.16451018]

>>16449280
Children are always going to be indoctrinated. The question is who will be doing the indoctrinating. And that is always going to be a fight between the state and the parents.

[Anonymous No.16451031]

>>16448593
Not sure I buy you're thesis OP. Support it.

[Anonymous No.16451053]

>>16448628
Not really. Consider the contemporary critical response to for example Euripides.

[Anonymous No.16451122]

>>16450987
>In approximately 1700 years the west has been socially held back

[Anonymous No.16451133]

>>16451053
You're going to have to tell me because I don't know what the response is.

[Anonymous No.16451138]

>>16451122
Good thing judeo-christianity is nearly a dead religion except in non-1st world shit holes

[Anonymous No.16451151]

>>16451138
the west is dead retard

[Anonymous No.16451156]

>>16448593
I mean have you tried bringing up nietzsche or any western philosopher for that matter around your local lgbtqia marxist cattle? In no time you will see their little stupid cowlike eyes light up in panic. Soon enough they will start with the usual subhuman bleating "wasnt he sexist? Arent you being dangerously eurocentric? Why read books by dead white men when you could have been streaming the latest diverse and inclusive workplace comedies at netflix hulu and disneygo? Didnt you know reading is ableist towards people who are too retarded to read? Have you been taking your SSRIs and HRT? it is very important that you take the medication dr goldstein prescribed otherwise we will have to report you to corporate for mandatory sensitivity training".

[Anonymous No.16451166]

>>16451151
it's more alive than ever

[Anonymous No.16451185]

>>16449280
I mean l by this point its obvious the lgbtsjwtfnpc are purpose engineered biopolitical clientele for globalism, their very existence is a product of social engineering and cultural marxism. As a white man its become clear that these people want me dead broke our children raped and they think its all pretty funny.

[Anonymous No.16451186]

>>16448593
Leftists are pretty much the only ones who read old books. Right wingers don't really read anything, old or new.

[Anonymous No.16451198]

>>16449064
Haha ha they named it after george floyd and mass qanon protests in germany we trully all live in america

[Anonymous No.16451221]

>>16451156
>Soon enough they will start with the usual subhuman bleating "wasnt he sexist?
Yes, dykes and trannies are retarded beyond salvation, but they're convenient useful idiots. When the right wing will be utterly crushed and every church burned at the hands of the LGBTQ cattle we will establish a brand new homofascist ethnostate based on the ancient roman religion where women will become merely machines to churn out babies and be treated with the contempt that inferior creatures like them deserve. Then we will mass genocide niggers, and solve every issue related to HIV.

[Anonymous No.16451256]

>>16451185
You lot are like a broken record. Get a fucking job and try being useful to yourself and to your peers you waste of organic matter.

[Anonymous No.16451268]

>>16451185
>As a white man its become clear that these people want me dead broke our children raped and they think its all pretty funny.
It's actually pretty funny watching you chimp out in your impotence.

[Anonymous No.16451272]

>>16451256
>You lot are like a broken record. Get a fucking job and try being useful to yourself and to your peers you waste of organic matter.
>a liberal saying 'get a job'

[Anonymous No.16451275]

>>16451156

Nietzche is the philosopher of the straights. Very bad man.

[Anonymous No.16451277]

>>16451268
yes he just said he knows you think it's funny retard

[Anonymous No.16451294]

>>16451277
Comprehending the reinforcement of one's statement takes at least two braincells

[Anonymous No.16451345]

I've never met a conservative who reads

[Anonymous No.16451441]

>>16451345
There is no left v right anymore, literally no difference between so called communists and the major corporations and universities, there us only the totalitarian ideology of cultural marxism and those who dare to disagree even on the slightest.

[Anonymous No.16451447]

>>16451441
and that's good, know your place subhuman contrarian

[Anonymous No.16451458]

>>16449280
sexual enjoyment out of the sodomy anymore, these people dont have sex they virtue signal and engage in shrill politically correct activities at the behest of george soros the dnc and their marxist professors. A means to pick up gullible leftist women. Sodomy being a purely bureaucratic formality an affirmation of their corporate assigned biopolitical identity.

[Anonymous No.16451577]

>>16451133
He is widely regarded as a proto-humanist with an unusually sympathetic view of women and other less fortunate groups in Greek society.

[Anonymous No.16451600]

>>16451156
Post your ancestry dna results

[Anonymous No.16451602]

>>16448593
read any reviews of a classic on goodreads. most of it is written by leftist roasties. they're incapable of appreciating literature unless it's interpreted through some leftist/marxist bullshit. perhaps it's for the best if they dont read old books

[Anonymous No.16451604]

>>16448593
When will they find the time to do that when they have so much YA to read and Netflix to binge?

[Anonymous No.16451611]

>>16451272
Lost for words lad? Might be you're the target audience, don't you think you've disappointed your mother enough?

[Anonymous No.16451616]

>>16451447
Why do leftists call to dissent and to be critical but when you are critical towards their order they call you "contrarian"?

[Anonymous No.16451674]

>>16451186
How many right-wingers do you know?

[Anonymous No.16451744]

>>16451186
>Leftists are pretty much the only ones who read old books. Right wingers don't really read anything, old or new.

[Anonymous No.16451839]

>>16448983
You're describing liberals, not leftists.

[Anonymous No.16451893]

>>16451674
they dont read, they pretend like they've read. there is a substantial difference.
>>16451744
cope

[Anonymous No.16451900]

>>16451616
because so we can detect the contrarian and cancel them from the face of earth

[Anonymous No.16451901]

>>16451674
I'm not from a big city so most of the people I know are right-wingers. The few people who read around here tend to be left-leaning, at least economically.

[Anonymous No.16451910]

>>16451186
are you kidding me dude? the dissident right is the ONLY group of people who actually read old books. Every leftist is caught up in critical race theory intersectionality progressive garbage like >>16448607 says .

[Anonymous No.16451920]

>>16451616
Because we care about empathy an basic human decency. The mild discomfort you feel at "political correctness gone mad" is not even one millionth of what poc or queer people go through every instant of their conscious existance from living in a white supremacist christian patriarchy.

[Anonymous No.16451937]

>>16451920
And yes i would gladlly burn every last book in the western cannon if that meant getting rid of white supremacy sexism and transphobia. I dont believe this is a radical or political statement at all but the bare minimum that should be expected of a decent human being.

[Anonymous No.16451942]

>>16451920
>>16451937
I've seen this bait before anon, word for word. What do you get out of posting it

[Anonymous No.16451946]

>>16448593
**Why don’t people on the left read

[Anonymous No.16452030]

>>16449055
Look up sluggish schizophrenia. Leftists use mental illness diagnoses as a political weapon to stifle dissent.

[Anonymous No.16452066]

>>16451577
wouldn't it be nice if plays and books were analyzed for their literary and aesthetic qualities instead of how feminist the authors are? I swear to god the whole "Marxist analysis" thing is the most arbitrary brainlet, cult-like, retarded, and baffling thing in modern existence. What if I base my critique of all books on whether or not they have green things in them? I genuinely can't fathom the mindset that it takes to analyze anything in such a way

[Anonymous No.16452152]

I exclusively read older books. There's no way in which any of my beliefs can be instituted in this century, let alone practiced by more than a slight margin of people in the world, so I am content to read and nothing else. Why concern myself further?

[Anonymous No.16452189]

>>16451577
Alright, that isn't exactly what I meant though. You have far right types quoting everyone from Ancient Greece to Rome to Medieval and early Modern Europe about their political designs because the whole nature of reactionaries is they think things were better in the past in some way. The far Left basically start in earnest with Marx, Liberals with Locke. It's a lot more recent

I know it's basically LARP for anyone to claim they want to institute Plato's philosopher king or even just bring back Louis XIV, just that it's a fundamentally different mindset towards the past and the present.

[Anonymous No.16452229]

>>16448673
>Leftist interpretations of Pic Related
Pls share, i could use a laff

[Anonymous No.16452465]

I'm a communist and I read the classical poets (in greek and latin), the german romantics, and shakespeare/milton, almost exclusively

[Anonymous No.16452520]

>>16451893
>cope

[Anonymous No.16453115]

>>16448711
I'm a leftist redditor and that book looks boring as shit. I will probably finish in search of lost time before I waste time on that one.

[Anonymous No.16453134]

>>16449097
hedonism is ancient though?

[Anonymous No.16453152]

>>16449112
Why bother with monogamy and trad marriage when you could imitate the ancients with a 21st century harem via polyamory? also why bother being married when around half of marriages fail anyway?

[Anonymous No.16453179]

>>16451156
I am a bisexual leftist and a Nietzschean

[Anonymous No.16453218]

>>16449004
most lefties read ideological books and non-fiction, if they read classics it's for the purposes of proffering an ideological critique

this is an issue because one of the old techniques of the left (going back to the commie days) was offering perspectives through ideologically approved critique. to the lefty /lit/ reader they might disingenuously throw up their hands in exasperation with "wuz wrong with dat", but many of the new generation of lit. theory are just there to push idpol.

[Anonymous No.16453870]

>>16451893
>they dont read, they pretend like they've read. there is a substantial difference.
This is severe projection.

[Anonymous No.16454485]

>>16453115
>I'm a leftist redditor

[Anonymous No.16454496]

>>16451186
This

[Anonymous No.16454537]

>>16451186
Show library and the 10 oldest books you own. Do it faggot.

[Anonymous No.16456031]

>>16453179
You are a consumer first and foremost. Your "identity" is a product.