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/lit/ - Literature

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1644254 No.1644254 [Reply] [Original]

Why do you think so many great writers kill themselves, become alcoholics, or become prone to depression?

>> No.1644262

Personal reasons maybe. Or it's just one of those things. It happens to a lot of people, not just writers but there's a significance in them being writers and killing themselves, becoming depressed etc.

>> No.1644259

>>1644254
Because they're idiots

>> No.1644277
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1644277

Higher incidence of mental illness in those with artistic leanings.

Read Touched With Fire by Kay Redfield Jamison.

The downside of this knowledge is that quite a few people who will never do anything and aren't artistic will fancy themselves as artists because they have a mental illness or thing they have a mental illness.

>> No.1644279
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1644279

>>1644277
My apologies, "think they have a mental illness."

>> No.1644280

It generally takes a bit of intelligence to be a good writer. Intelligence is negatively correlated with happiness. Also, also of people want to read about depressing shit for whatever reason, and it takes a depressed person to write about depressing shit.

>> No.1644283

>>1644279
And quite a few sane people will fancy themselves artists as well. And some will be right. And some will like cheese. And some won't. And some will fit everything into narrow categories. And some won't need to.

>> No.1644284

>>1644277
> The downside of this knowledge is that quite a few people who will never do anything and aren't artistic will fancy themselves as artists because they have a mental illness or thing they have a mental illness.

wat. Are you suggesting that someone will think they have a mental illness, and then go out and call themselves a painter or something without ever painting anything? I'm that could happen to someone, but I don't see it as being a widespread problem.

>> No.1644287

>>1644284
My apologies, "I'm sure that could happen to someone . . ."

>> No.1644291

>>1644284
No, I'm suggesting what happens on livejournal.

>> No.1644294

>>1644291
I have never been to that website. please explain to me what happens there.

>> No.1644296
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1644296

>Why do you think so many great writers

is there really more than the general populace?

try to find some hard evidence instead of anecdotal musings

pic related: why couldn't this bitch have killed herself before writing those awful books?

>> No.1644301

>Why do you think so many suicidal depressives, alcoholics, etc. become great writers

surely

>> No.1644304

>>1644296
You're correct, I'm sure a lot of business men kill themselves too. It just seems like a lot of them develop depression or alcoholism.
>>1644277
So... it's because they're right brained people? Kind of?

>> No.1644312
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1644312

I think with any art there's a certain amount of self-torture that goes into the creation process. Writers have to wring images and concepts from their minds on a constant basis and string these together to form complex narratives and personalities, which can obviously take a huge toll on the mind. Writing is also a very solitary art form, unlike performance arts, meaning writers will cast themselves into utter seclusion, sacrificing other aspects of their lives to take a great risk. Let's face it, writing is one of the riskiest occupations there is, with very little security if things fall through. Self-criticism eats away at writers all the time. They rarely feel appreciated, since the market is saturated with (1) amateurs who don't think the craft is all that hard to learn, and who thus fail to appreciate the writer's minor conquests, and (2) superior writers who make lesser writers feel as though their efforts are worthless. Consider also that writers flit through countless imagined minds (and psychological states) to create characters, and this might lead to mental disorientation without the continued validation that, say, actors receive (since writers, again, are solitary animals). What's more, writers are often poor and prone to great sensitivity (they /feel/ more than most people), which is of course a lethal combination.

They are a species doomed from the start to misery, yet capable of the greatest triumphs.

>> No.1644318

>>1644301
OP here, you prove a very good point, methinks.

>> No.1644320

I think it comes from the nature of writing itself, especially literary writing.

You basically sit around mulling over the vagaries of existence as your job. You also don't get anywhere or make any money for beating your heart against reality on a daily basis.

I think it's easy to get into the habit of over-thinking things, until you can't really be happy anymore, as a writer.

>> No.1644423

Writers are a pathetic lot, aren't they?

>> No.1644426

>>1644423
not as bad as the typical 4chan poster

>> No.1644450

>>1644312
Most coherent post in this whole thread. 5/5

>> No.1644498

Because the real world usually requires you work for a living and they can't handle that.

>> No.1644505

They're not depressed alcoholics because they are great authors. They're great authors because they are depressed alcoholics.

>> No.1644510

Because writing is such personally unsatisfying work
umad?

>> No.1644520

Because they didn't take economics/business/law in college and now they're financially fucked.

>> No.1644533

>>1644312

Indeed.

Writers tend to see the world in a whole different way. They tend to see it in the dirty way it is, so how can you ever be happy while you know you can't change it? Besides that, as lonely as writers are, they still need someone. And their loneliness is actually the point: they can't easily be comfortable with someone who will ignore most of their inner questions and problems. And I'd also think getting high and then at the higher point of sadness killing myself would be a good option.

Also, many other artists are like that, such as the most talented musicians.

>> No.1644537

>>1644505
>>1644533
Angsty undergrads actually believe this.

>> No.1644613

>>1644537
Please explain, then.

>> No.1644621
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1644621

They are sad.

You have to think about how many great writers do not kill themselves. The suicide stats are still probably higher than the general population.

>> No.1644764

Not all writers do, only a significant number of famous ones do.
Why?
Well I'll tell you.
1) People tend to enjoy literature which they can identify with. It doesn't matter if it takes place in the year 3000 or on a road trip to the West Coast, popularly enjoyed literature always features a protagonist who people can look at and say, "Yeah, I get what's going on with him.".
2) People in a state of joy/positive affect/what have you tend not to perform sedentary activities. People who are happy like to move around. They play games, they have sex, they go for brisk jogs. They don't sit down and have a nice long read.
3) Although not always, authors tend to write their best when embodying things they feel themselves. Things they've observed in their world, their feelings, and the feelings of those around them.
4) People who ARE reading, therefore, tend to be feeling indifferent or sad. They identify with books about people who are also feeling indiferent or sad, and so they tend to laud authors who effectively bring across indiference and sadness. Those authors generally tend to be depressed themselves.

Q.E.D.

>> No.1644828

>>1644613
Drinking or letting yourself fall into "depression" (if you were really depressed, you probably wouldn't have the will to write, so most writer's "depression" is an affected condition.) has nothing to do with your output, at least, not the quality of it, and in most cases it'll just hinder you from having a steady output and sitting down to write regularly, which is what is important.

There are writers that were depressed and substance abusers, yes, but how do we know if it really "helped" their writing? Suffering begets art is a mostly romanticized and baseless notion, and lots of the authors and artists that are canonized had quite comfy lives. There seems to be an emphasis on it, though, because people love a scandalous story to attach the book to.

There are good writers that have personal problems, there are good writers that have fairly fortunate and normal lives. There are also unsuccessful writers that you've never heard that are happy working towards their goals despite, and others that are burnouts that thought drinking and pursuing "life experience" instead of just writing would make their work better.

Source: I live in a house with a shitton of writing undergrads.

>> No.1644853

My Popular Music and Literature teacher two quarters ago had a theory that, at least for writers, it's just because it's so demanding. If they're truly dedicated and actually spending time writing ideas down for characters and plot-lines and take the time to develop them and get into the mindset of the story/stories they're writing, it's got to get exhausting, especially on the mind. Therefore, the majority of them turn to alcohol as a way to unwind, but before they know it, they'll become addicted because it's what they think keeps them able and willing to write stories.

>> No.1644887

to put it bluntly, us literary giants despise the embodied state, and so we work on an intellectual landscape whilst destroying our corporeal selves

>> No.1644892

Al Gore is still alive dude, quit trollin

>> No.1644897

>>1644621
This.

>> No.1644899
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1644899

All this shit about a touch of mental illness actually benefitting creative intellect is just nonsensical speculation with no statical evidence.

Schizophrenia erodes grey matter and disrupts your thought processes, leaving you barely able to read let alone write great fiction.

Being highly intelligent and perceptive may cause you to acutely analyse ideas or things which most would perceive as insignificant, or may inadvertently lead to people seeing you as eccentric, strange or even signs of illness, both which can of course lead to stress and depression.

>> No.1644901

>Why do you think so many great writers kill themselves, become alcoholics, or become prone to depression
>become prone to depression
>become prone

I can't let you do that, Starfox.

>> No.1644903

>Why do you think so many great writers kill themselves, become alcoholics, or become prone to depression?
Perhaps because they were less than great Human beings

>> No.1644909

The depressed artist is a purely modern stereotype. It was original in the early 1800s. Not so much anymore.

Please delete this thread, OP. It's extra lame.

>> No.1644919

>>1644899

Saying that schizophrenia erodes grey matter is just nonsensical speculation with no statical evidence.

But indeed I don't think it benifits to creative thinking. I'm a schizophreniac writer wannabe, and it's way more an handicap than an asset for a writer.

But man, about any schizophreniac is able to read and write, even with a disturbed thought process...

>> No.1644930

>Why do you think so many great writers kill themselves, become alcoholics, or become prone to depression?

Because I bullied them in high school. Shit. Who cares, OP?

>> No.1644932

What fucking writers are you guys talking about?

>> No.1644936
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1644936

Does alcohol help at all when writing?

I've never tried it before.

>> No.1644937

>>1644932

Wikipedia told him Hemingway committed suicide.

>> No.1644938
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1644938

>>1644919

I'm sorry but you're wrong. There is a significant degradation in IQ which correlates with the reduction of grey and white matter.

>about any schizophreniac is able to read and write

This also isn't true, especially for significant cases of schizophrenia.

Reduction of grey matter:

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20633666
>http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/191/51/s111
>http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/191/4/325
>http://www.springerlink.com/content/7457ca17n11524yv/

Impairment of reading:
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2901807/
>http://psycnet.apa.org/?fa=main.doiLanding&uid=1998-04145-008

>> No.1644956

>>1644938

I am well aware of structural brain abnormalities occuring in schizophrenia, which you describe as reduction of grey matter. To oversimplify it, some part of the brain will be smaller than usual in a schizophreniac patient, while some other will be bigger. It isn't grey matter eroding. You're mistaking it with alzheimer man.

I didn't even bother to read the link about reading impairment, hey, I'm writing in my second langage right now, seems good enough to me.

But we're off subject right now, i'll end it here.

>> No.1644985

> It isn't grey matter eroding. You're mistaking it with alzheimer man.

Grey matter erodes for everyone, it's just faster if you have chronic schizophrenic.

>> No.1645004

>>1644985

Yeah well, after a bit of reading, it seems you're right!

Congratulation for learning me this fact and permitting me to dive toward despair a little bit faster! I really needed that.

>> No.1645054

>>1645004

You seem like an intelligent guy and schizophrenia, like all psychosis, is a spectrum so maybe you don't have such an acute case.

My brother has severe schizophrenia so I know how horrific the illness can be, but I think the pain is expounded by the misconceptions and prejudice about the illness, eg it makes you violent or that its not so bad and it has some artistic benefit.

You seem like a really nice person though, which I have found to be the case for every schizophrenic I have met. Please don't despair, that wasn't the intention of my post.

>> No.1645100

bump