/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16427882]

Finished Xenophons Anabaesis
Where do I go from here?
Also why is it only on the lesser used meme chart and not the main one? It's pretty good

[Anonymous No.16427890]

>>16427882
I heard it's good too. Keep going with the chart anon

[Anonymous No.16427901]

Read the Hellenika next. After the end of the Peloponnesean war it picks up where the Anabassis ends

[Anonymous No.16427925]

>>16427882
It's my favourite book. Where to go from there? Depends on what you're looking for.

>more glorious non-fiction accounts of heroism in war?
Storm of Steel, Jünger
>what else did these guys do?
A History of My Times, Xenophon (but read The Peloponessian War first)
>additional works about war by Xenophon?
The technical treatises: on horsemanship, cavalry commander, on hunting. I haven't read Agesilaus or the Cyropaedia yet, but those are probably even more relevant
>any other Greek generals that did this?
Yes, guess who? Read the other Anabasis (and the Indica), by Arrian.

[Anonymous No.16428004]

>>16427890
>>16427901
>>16427925
Sounds like xenophons book finishing up the Peloponesian war is the way to go.
Thanks

[Anonymous No.16428033]

>>16427882
Watch this

[Anonymous No.16428049]

>>16427882
Have you read Herodotus and Thucydides? If yes, read Xenophon's The Hellenica. If you've read that read Arrian, and then wait for The Landmark Polybius that just keeps getting postponed...

[Anonymous No.16428116]

>>16428049
I have read Herodotus and Thucydides. Honestly, enjoyed the anabaesis more than Thucydides. Is Hellenica better as well or no?

[Anonymous No.16428188]

>tfw still stuck at Herodotus's made up stories about egyptian kings

[Anonymous No.16428193]

>>16428116
Hellenica is not soulful like Anabasis. It's just a recounting of history and a lot of people find it boring.

>>16428033
Play the video game from the golden age of Rockstar.

[Anonymous No.16428290]

>>16428188
>made up stories about egyptian kings
Actually Manetho (an Egyptian historian) has some of the same stuff in his book. Old Testament does as well (pharoh whose name I can't remember being over thrown by a former general)
Modern Historians criticise Herodotus, too much imo. They wind up looking like fools when he is proven right (see black tablet proving ziguret in Babylon was very real)

[Anonymous No.16428327]

>>16428116
>Is Hellenica better as well or no?
No, it isn't. It's a pale imitation of Thucydides (and actually picks up exactly where Thucydides leaves off). Xenophon was trying to write in the same way that Thucydides did and just isn't really able to capture it in the same way. It is still absolutely worth reading, but just try to temper your expectations - it's not like the Anabasis.

[Anonymous No.16428343]

>>16428290
Wait till Rhampsinitos raises up from Hades and puninshes all the historians

[Anonymous No.16428386]

>>16428290
>Modern Historians criticise Herodotus, too much imo
This hasn't been true for a while, Herodotus is for the most part considered reliable on the events aside from his retarded details (bro only 12 Spartans and 30 Athenians died while 60,000 Persians perished... trust me man). And even the meem that Plutarch hated him is dubious, because Plutarch cites him extensively without questioning his reliability.

>>16428327
>There is a tradition that [Xenophon] made Thucydides famous by publishing his history, which was unknown, and which he might have appropriated to his own use.
From Diogenes Laertius

[Anonymous No.16428434]

>>16428386
>There is a tradition that [Xenophon] made Thucydides famous by publishing his history, which was unknown, and which he might have appropriated to his own use.
>From Diogenes Laertius
It's funny how relatively ignored Xenophon is these days. We read Anabasis, and some people read Hellenica, but very few these days read his Memorabilia or Symposium or Apology. He was one of the great early moral philosophers; in many ways it's a pity he isn't more widely read or widely known.

[Anonymous No.16428577]

>>16428386
>rich athenian aristocrat and general from an affluent thracian family
>needing a Sp*rtan cock-sucker aid to publish the first political theory book in the world

[Anonymous No.16428721]

>>16428434
>It's funny how relatively ignored Xenophon is these days.
In the introduction to my Anabasis it is said that the book was a mandatory reading for schoolboys at one point.

>one of the great early moral philosophers
He's not a great thinker but there is a certain beauty to his simple but unrelenting adherence to virtuous and pious values. I like this passage

>>16428577
I doubt it's true but it's interesting to think about, especially with the knowledge that Xenophon is actually not considered that reliable as a historian, but relied on extensively because competing sources have perished. Xenophon must have been extremely popular given how all of his works have survived, so who knows? Maybe Thucy wouldn't even be on our shitty infographics if not for Xenophon.

[Anonymous No.16428747]

>>16428434
Anabasis was pretty popular for the most of history after its writing.

[Anonymous No.16428767]

>>16428721
Wasn't he an aristocrat anti-democracy? He's acting so holier than thou and like a man of the people

[Anonymous No.16428806]

>>16428767
Anybody sensible was (and is) anti-democracy.

[Anonymous No.16428856]

>>16428577
Less implausible than you think
Thucydides died very abruptly so it could have just kind of stayed in his house for a long time
Same thing happened to Strabo because he died in bumfuck nowhere
>>16428721
>He's not a great thinker
He was only copied relentlessly by every political thinker up to Machiavelli who sneakily copied him by pretending to disagree and strawmaning him

[Anonymous No.16428858]

>>16428767
He's not acting like a man of the people. He's saying that the simplicity of his language is no reason to attack him, because his ideas are virtuous and that is what ultimately matters. He criticizes sophists for preferring style over substance, using style to deceive others for their own gain (compare Plato's Gorgias) while praising Socrates for doing the opposite.

[Anonymous No.16429029]

>>16428747
>Anabasis was pretty popular for the most of history after its writing.
I suppose I should have been more clear; yes, Anabasis is still widely read (to the extent classical works are widely read); my point was more that his philosophical works are almost entirely ignored today, whereas in the past they were more widely read.

[Anonymous No.16429053]

>>16429029
>my point was more that his philosophical works are almost entirely ignored today, whereas in the past they were more widely read.
Because they're not as good as the actually good political theory works.

[Anonymous No.16429064]

>>16429029
desu he was not just very good at that, and besides nobody reads anyone outside of pluto and aristotle

[Anonymous No.16429073]

>>16429053
>what endures is therefore right
About half of those books are garbage.

[Anonymous No.16429078]

>>16429073
still obviously superior to the stuff that didn't endure or hasn't yet been subjected to the test of time

[Anonymous No.16429083]

>>16429078
Sure thing materialist faggot.

[Anonymous No.16429088]

>>16429083
I'll see you in a millenia, oh wait..

[Anonymous No.16429122]

>>16429053
>>16429064
I'd argue that you're making unfair comparisons, as Xenophon's philosophical works were not works of epistemological or political philosophy, but works of *moral* philosophy. The closest on your list would be Cicero's De Officiis, but that one is a bit more narrowly tailored than Xenophon.

I think this all makes sense - Xenophon was not writing philosophy that calls for an academic approach, and outside of the academy philosophy of any kind is rarely read today.

[Anonymous No.16429161]

>>16429073
You just don't understand philosophy anon that's ok don't be so mad about it

[Anonymous No.16429169]

>>16428806
>pericles was not sensible

[Anonymous No.16429184]

>>16429169
>deliberately brought on war to protect his political position

[Anonymous No.16429235]

>>16429184
he didn't need to protect it, people kept electing him every year