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16423232 No.16423232 [Reply] [Original]

Which translation of this should I get between Avsey (Oxford World's Classics) or Macandrew (Bantam) for Karamazov Brothers? Opinions seem to settle on these 2 as the best ones

>> No.16423285

I am currently reading the Magarshack translation and it's pretty good desu.

>> No.16423323

McDuff

>> No.16423512

>>16423232
I have the Oxford World Classic Edition, would highly recommend

>> No.16423813

>>16423232
anything but the McDuff translation is nothing short of dumb.

>> No.16423869
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16423869

I'm a pleb, but I read this one and enjoyed it.

>> No.16423875

P&V

>> No.16423903

>>16423232
Not P&V
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/gary-morson/the-pevearsion-of-russian-literature/

>> No.16423911

>>16423232
Garnett. Shocking but true

>> No.16424058

>>16423232
I read the Avsey translation and I definitely recommend it, although it’s the only one I’ve read I can say that I didn’t have any problems understanding the phrasing, themes, events etc, and it made the book my favourite of all time.

>> No.16424067

>>16423911
there seems to be a lot of praise as well for the Norton 2nd edition of the Garnett translation

>> No.16424169

>>16423903
That article is retarded, like when he says they miss the meaning of Dostoevsky’s “intention” without ever bothering to explain how or what that even means. The author clearly just has an ax to grind with P/V’s popularity, though he gives a bunch of blind praise to Garnett despite there being plenty of valid criticism towards her, such as those by Nabokov.

Yes, P/V is the best. They’re the most faithful and are generally the academic standard. One contrarian article by a pseud won’t change that, not to mention most people who hate on them haven’t actually read their translations and are just parroting that article.

>> No.16424195

>>16424067
oh yeah, I remember Hemingway appreciated it in 'A Moveable Feast'

>> No.16424260

>>16424169
Who told you they are th academic standard? For starters, their translations are relatively recent.

Joseph Frank himself often referred to Garnett on the basis that is was the most widely accessible to English Speakers, and McDuff, Avsey, Wilks, Meyers, etc all produced translations either before or contemporaneously with P&V, and frankly are more stilted.

I have two books at hand here, a Bantam Classic "Eternal Husband and other stories" by Pevear and Volokhonsky and "Gambler and other stories" by Ronald Meyer. Let's compare:

A Nasty Anecdote (P&V)

>This nasty anecdote occurred precisely at the time when, with such irrepressible force and such touchingly naive enthusiasm, the regeneration of our dear fatherland began, and its valiant sons were all striving toward new destinies and hopes.

A Nasty Business (Meyer)

>This nasty business took place just at the time when the renaissance of our beloved fatherland was beginning with such irrepressible force and with such touchingly naive fervour, when all its valiant sons were seeking new destinies and hopes.

Now at least, this should highlight that in translation, there is actually little substance lost, and it is largely a matter of form. But as you should be able to see, P&V have a weird grammatical syntax that comes across as stilted to the natural English speaker, without being any more elucidating.

I have read some of their other works and they are clearly clouded by some kind of mission for accuracy, yet fail to render some sentences in a comprehensible manner in English (The Adolescent was a big one for this - EveryMan's Library), where I found myself laughing at the poor chose of words that take you right out of the text.

>> No.16424267

>>16424260
frankly P&V are more stilted*

>> No.16424277

>>16424260
I’m sure you can also find snippets where P&V have the better rendition. I don’t speak Russian so I don’t have much of an opinion, but I find P&V very readable generally.

>> No.16424308

>>16424277
What you have to remember, is that every translator can speak Russian. Pevear and Meyer have both taught at Columbia University, for example. It's not a matter of who knows Russian, clearly. Since they all do, and largely most translators are back up by years of rigorous scholarship.

But P&V, I think largely swayed by the less scholarly Volokhonsky, seem to take a contempt for rendering the prose or a phrase in an English readability as some kind of mission statement that detracts from their own work.

>> No.16424360

>>16424308

Let us try again with another book added for comparison (yes I am sad enough to have the same story in multiple translations):

The Meek One - chapter II (P&V)
>The 'innermost secrets' I found out about her can be explained in a word: her father and mother had died, already long ago, three years before, and she was left with some disorderly aunts.
The Meek Girl - chapter II (McDuff)
>The 'details' I found out about her can be summed up quite briefly: her father and mother died quite a long time ago, three years earlier, and she had been left in the care of some disreputable aunts.
The Meek One - chapter II (Meyer)
>The 'particulars' I learned about her I can set forth in a few words: her father and mother had died a long time ago, three years previously, and she had been left with her disreputable aunts.

>> No.16424371

>>16424360
Look at P&V,
>explained in a word
That's not a word is it. Both of the other translators pluralise or rephrase this.

As you can tell, you won't lose much with any translation (compared with one another), but P&V are weird and dry as hell.

>> No.16424402

>>16424371
not that guy but
>explained in a word
makes total sense. i like it better even https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/in-a-word
although if i had to pick one of the 3 based on that i would go for mcduff

>> No.16424414

tis book is exhausting to read. I feel like a lot of the humor is lost in translation

>> No.16424540

What's the best crime and punishment translation?
Katz?

>> No.16424882

>>16424414
Have you read Crime & Punishment? How do they compare is exhastingness? I found C&P to be a breeze. If anything, my lack of religious instruction is what makes me apprehensive. I've skimmed the Bible a few times but besides that my knowledge of Christianity comes from 4chan.

>> No.16424927

>>16423232
Read McDuff translation. If you're intimidated by the size of the book read his short stories first.

Also, check out Tolstoy's short stories and novels. Maude translation is the best for Tolstoy.

>> No.16424954

>>16424882
nope, it's hard for me cause I stopped reading for many years. There isn't really anything you need to know about Christianity so far in the book.

>> No.16425064

>>16423232
Ill hold on to my fantasy that ill read all these books in Russian once i free up some time to learn it.

>> No.16425408

>>16424540
I read the Coulson translation from Oxford a long while ago, and I remember enjoying it and that the important moments came across to me vividly. I've read that the Oliver Ready (Penguin) translation of C&P is really good so I want to try that for a reread

>> No.16425472

>>16423232
You should get 'i am the most interesting book in the world' diary of the woman who actually painted your picrel

>> No.16426551

Ignat Avsey is the best one

>> No.16426835

>>16424260
Except Joseph Frank said that the Pevear translation was the most faithful to the original Russian and that he “heartedly recommended it.” If you don’t like their word choice or syntax, blame it on Dosto. Garnett once even called Dosto a “careless and indifferent stylist,” partly because he was always writing under pressure.

>>
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