Defend yourselves Sumerian fags

[Anonymous No.16400477]

This thing was a bunch of fragments of garbage stories. Greek myths destroy these and it is clear to me why they are talked about and these aren't

Start with the Greeks isn't a meme, starting with the bronze age Sumerians is

[Anonymous No.16400511]

>Sumer
>4500 - 1900 BC
>Greece
>800 - 323 BC

[Anonymous No.16400526]

>>16400511
>it's older so its ok that they suck
No. Age is no excuse. Iliad is still awesome after all this time. These myths are trash

[Anonymous No.16400560]

>>16400477
Mesopotamians have had far more influence on Western civilisation than you will ever understand. It is more difficult to get into them because the lineage is older and murkier, and the fragmented literature we possess challenges the reader more than what we have preserved of Greece and Rome. All this thread says is that you got filtered.

[Anonymous No.16400581]

>Didn't enjoy Gilgamesh
pleb filtered

[Anonymous No.16400610]

>>16400560
If mesopotamians have had so much influence, why are most governments in the western world based on that of Rome and some of the Greek cities?
Even sayings we have like
>beware of Greeks baring gifts
>all roads lead to Rome
>that's his Achillies heel
Show their influence. I see very little from Mesopotamia. There is no filtering occurring, Mesopotamia just ain that influential

>>16400581
Gilgamesh is the only one that was halfway decent and I wish we had the full thing

[Anonymous No.16400684]

Starting with the Sumerians is a meme. Start with the Greeks is promoted because so much of western thought has its roots in Greek philosophy, Greek myths are a cultural touchstone referenced as often as the Bible, etc. To the extent that, if you want to appreciate the western canon, you're doing yourself a disservice by not building a solid foundation.
Start with the Sumerians became a meme because, as the oldest surviving examples of writing we have come from Sumer, it's funny to say "oh, starting with the Greeks? well why not start at the real start?"
Most people are not stupid enough to take this seriously - especially when, iirc, the Sumer charts that get passed around include anthropology textbooks and compilations of translated fragments.
That's not to say there's no value in Sumer's myths and poems. If nothing else, they're a glimpse into the thought process of the first people to develop a written language. More than that, though, you can see how even the Greeks' culture had its foundations here. Take the parallels between the myth of Hades and Persephone and the myth of Ereshkigal and Inanna.
Iliad still slaps, Gilgamesh still slaps.

[Anonymous No.16401634]

>>16400477
they weren't even conscious, anon. pick on someone your own size.

[Anonymous No.16401649]

>>16400610
Sumer was 3000 years before ancient Greece, you dumb mongoloid.

The Greeks are closer to us, timeline-wise, then they are to the Sumerians.

[Anonymous No.16401654]

>>16400477
Brainlet

[Anonymous No.16401663]

>>16400477
OP is right, Sumerians fail the lindy test

[Anonymous No.16401801]

>>16400477
I think if people are told to start with the Greeks, and only the Greeks, they're more likely to misrepresent their influence--exactly like is happening in this thread. Western civilisation began in the Fertile Crescent, not the Aegean. You're supposed to read the Mesopotamian's (and desu the Egyptians) so you understand this. Also, Gilgamesh fucks desu

[Anonymous No.16403127]

>>16401634
>people were schizos because works didn't describe introspection in depth

I guess people also didn't breathe.

[Anonymous No.16403289]

>>16400526
>these stories that originated literally thousands of years ago at the dawn of the modern man do not appeal to my modern literary sensibilities
Wow, what a fucking shock. There is a different kind of appreciation that people have for stories like these that goes beyond just trying to equate real life with fantasy novels, which so often seems to be the case with people who have only a basic understanding of mythology. Obviously you are not cultured enough to handle that yet.

[Anonymous No.16403773]

>>16401649
Again
>they're older so its ok so that their stuff sucks
No

[Anonymous No.16403783]

>>16401801
I am well aware "civilization" in the fertile crescent is older than elsewhere. My point is that their stories suck and the meme "dude they're older" is no excuse.
And if you think the Greeks haven't had a bigger influence you're high.
That said Egyptians definitely influenced Greeks and vice versa

[Anonymous No.16403794]

>>16403289
>There is a different kind of appreciation that people have for stories like these that goes beyond just trying to equate real life with fantasy novels, which so often seems to be the case with people who have only a basic understanding of mythology.
Anon I have read plenty of mythology. Most of it is good. But this outside of gilgamesh was garbage.
I'm aware it's not a fantasy novel, if it was I wouldn't read it

[Anonymous No.16404905]

>>16403783
No, anon. No one is arguing that these texts are more impactful. But the greeks wouldn't be the effing greeks without the cultural influence of those earlier societies. The influence, to take just one example, of Gilgamesh on Homer is really significant. If you can't see the value of comparing, and so contextualising, these texts in this way then that's a problem with you, not their legacy.

[Anonymous No.16404963]

>>16400610
Kinda weird that time is base 60 though.

[Anonymous No.16406488]

I have never seen anyone say Sumerian literature is the equal of Ancient Greek literature

[Anonymous No.16406507]

>>16400477
>read a shitty translation
>therefore all bad
try again monolingual faggot

[Anonymous No.16406526]

>>16400477
BASED

SUMER FAGS SEETHE.

[Anonymous No.16406583]

>>16406507
Is the George translation the best?

[Anonymous No.16406590]

>>16401634
The bicameral theory is stupid.

[Anonymous No.16407055]

>>16403773
It's a window to the past you mong. It's interesting for historical reasons rather than just shiny plot-points and shit.

Maybe you'd prefer Brandon Sanderson?

[Anonymous No.16407425]

>was a bunch of fragments of garbage stories.

they weren't meant to be stories for pleasure, they were mythological stories from shamans meant for worship

shamans tripping on balls or having mental episodes aren't likely to deliver compelling stories; that's what made the Greeks stand out in the first place

[Anonymous No.16407452]

>>16400477
no shit greek myths are better, they built off of stories from places like mesopatamia
this is like saying a train is better than a wagon and trying to use that to own middle ages society

[Anonymous No.16407461]

>>16407452
disagree, greeks were good because they specifically encouraged an oral tradition by letting poets compete with each other; in other words, they allowed their religion to become partly entertainment/art

[Anonymous No.16407473]

>>16407461
Im pretty sure thats most every place and time though. cant really think of a culture that doesnt do that. except maybe uberpuritans in the 1600s. but even then it was esoteric lived experience.

[Anonymous No.16407519]

>>16407473
>Im pretty sure thats most every place and time though.

that's mere assumption, we don't know what the oral tradition was like or what secularizing effects it had on religion.

if you think ancient peoples didn't accept paradoxes or contradictory religious stories, you're giving humanity too much credit

[Anonymous No.16407564]

>>16407519
>if you think ancient peoples didn't accept paradoxes or contradictory religious stories, you're giving humanity too much credit
i dont think you said that. I was refer to
>they allowed their religion to become partly entertainment/art
which is seen in other religions like nativity scenes in christianity, or shinto rituals.

[Anonymous No.16407582]

>>16407564
that's emulation, the greek oral tradition (going by the Iliad and the Odyssey) encouraged poets to take multiple traditions and allow them to preen out whichever ones they like

nativity scenes are (usually) meant to be direct emulations. in other words, poets had free reign to mess with the guts of the religion. this is something Plato/St. Augustine talk about, Plato thought it was a scandal and St. Augustine called (Greek/Roman) paganism the concoction of poets.

[Anonymous No.16407612]

>>16407582
OK i can understand that then. THough I would say most ancient western pagan religion were rather flexible in their performative interpretation (outside the highly ritualized particulars of course like sacrific). so I dont know if its particularly greek. seeing as how the romans tended to synthesis their own with the greeks and also somewhat (but never to the same degree, except for later imperial mandates) molded it to their liking. And although im not as familiar with phonician and egyptian religion, I think it was likewise moldable as they would adopt hercules or the like.

If i were to venture a guess, I would maybe even say the Greeks (through Plato mostly and onto augustine as you mentioned) were the ones to first try to take away this wishy washy religion at your own mortal whim stuff and replace it with something more firm.

(Though I also think Juedaic scholars were also likewise leglistic and strict with different interpretations)

[Anonymous No.16407668]

>>16407452
What a disgrace. The Greeks ripped off near eastern esoteric myths and made artsy fartsy faggot trash. What was once reserved for the educated priestly caste of past civilizations became cartoon shows for the everyday ancient Greek pleb. Those Sumerians and Egyptians knew better than to give plebs access to divine knowledge by keeping them illiterate lest you get people like faggot OP.

[Anonymous No.16408190]

>>16404963
the days of the week are named after germanic gods though

[Anonymous No.16408229]

>>16407582
>Plato thought it was a scandal
Plato literally advocates for the idea in Laws

[Anonymous No.16409261]

>>16400610
Governments of the Western world are based on Christianity, they have nothing to do with the ancient world

[Anonymous No.16409272]

>>16400477
Oof, Mesopotamian history has always interested me. I'll still give it a go, I'll probably touch it first since I feel Greek literature is too mainstream and worth reading second.

Is this foolish?

[Anonymous No.16409293]

>>16409261
>>16400610
illiterate retards, the Mesopotamians invented written language and private property

[Anonymous No.16409676]

>>16409272
Passing things by because they are mainstream is foolish, yes.
That said,
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/edition2/etcslbycat.php