/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:03:49 2020 No.16393706 [Reply] [Original]

>refutes all other major world religions and is superior to them in every way imaginable, at the same time carrying far greater spiritual and philosophical wisdom that is at the same time consistent with modern science 500-1000 years before all other major world religions come into existence and 2500 years before the advent of modern science
how did they do it bros?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:06:37 2020 No.16393716 >>16393706 Pic related isnt of a Quaker and Quakerism though?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:11:50 2020 No.16393732 >>16393716 Buddhism is based, and Quakerism is also based. Pretty much any religion that has comprehensive metaphysical beliefs yet at the same time respects the beliefs of others and acknowledges them as valid avenues to divine truth is pretty based.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:15:53 2020 No.16393745

>>16393732
sounds gay and wishy washy without being honest in its wishy washyness like Hegelianism or something.

Sounds like perennialism that forgets the essential qualities that makings absolute answers in some paradigms absolutely (Ie, relativism).

Astrolomous !86ZqrHsqpc Sat Sep 19 00:21:50 2020 No.16393766

>>16393706
They integrated Left hand and Right hand path worldviews in a way that benefits both extremely well.

People who want to nope the fuck out of Samsara can go if they can manage the path. And people who want to use dharma to better life for everyone within Samsara for the time being can do so. People who want to do both are bodhisattvas, who agree to reincarnate several times until the end of the universe to spiritually guide those to various better forms of dharma.

Only thing I disagree with is the Vegetarianism premises. If killing animals causes suffering then it is necessary for our nutrition and the quest of Buddhism for humans should take primacy over the animals, but neither should of course be neglected. vegetarians are emaciated retards unless they are extremely high caste spiritually initiated people since birth. I think it's definitely up in the air.

There's even Vedic scriptures which hold meat in high esteem. I think the real debate over animal flesh can be summed up with Animal flesh containing a much higher karma than plants for obvious reasons, but it's not necessarily bad karma. You just need to use the karma properly, hence why meat makes people strong and horny and all plant diets destroy fertility and libido. It's just a higher vibration you need to be strong enough to work with. Karma is neutral, the strength to wield it makes it good karma, the lack of strength to wield it causes suffering and bad karma.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:23:55 2020 No.16393774

>>16393745
I don't see it that way. Each of these traditions answers the "essential questions", but insofar as they claim to worship an infinitely incomprehensible divinity they must admit that their tradition doesn't have absolute authority over knowledge of that divinity or how it reveals itself to the world.
They also admire other traditions that bear similar good fruits and have arrived at similar moral conclusions.
I see no problem with this at all.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:25:21 2020 No.16393779

>>16393732
>Pretty much any religion that has comprehensive metaphysical beliefs yet at the same time respects the beliefs of others and acknowledges them as valid avenues to divine truth is pretty based.
this is opposite to buddhism. You have a female yuppie understanding of it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:27:12 2020 No.16393790 >>16393779 Shut the fuck up you dipshit. I live in a Buddhist country.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:42:14 2020 No.16393840 File: 197 KB, 1024x768, quote PB rationalism.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16393706 This. Buddhism helps you to step back from everything rather than being caught up in it.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:43:45 2020 No.16393847

>>16393766
>Only thing I disagree with is the Vegetarianism premises. If killing animals causes suffering then it is necessary for our nutrition
Meat eating isn't necessary though

>for humans should take primacy over the animals, but neither should of course be neglected. vegetarians are emaciated retards unless they are extremely high caste spiritually initiated people since birth. I think it's definitely up in the air.
Ironically this is the type of behavior the Buddha taught to shy away. An obvious example of you clinging to meat

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:45:47 2020 No.16393853 >>16393847 He's lost bro. He's already left vulture peak.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:52:36 2020 No.16393875 >>16393847 So you dont cling to meat just to cling to something else

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:54:33 2020 No.16393882 Westerners who practice Buddhism are typically miserable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:54:52 2020 No.16393883 >>16393875 The Buddha taught to end suffering is partially through ending clinging

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:55:54 2020 No.16393892 >>16393882 Buddhism has nothing to do with life improvement

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 00:59:29 2020 No.16393903 >>16393892 I don't study Buddhism, so I wouldn't know. I do know that most Buddhists I come in to contact with are deeply broken individuals.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 01:00:25 2020 No.16393907 >>16393903 sounds like a you problem

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 01:06:38 2020 No.16393928

>>16393903
I am all for Westerners studying Zen, which is not Buddhism. I am all for Westerners studying Pure Land. Hell even Neo-Advaita.

I would not advise any of my Western friends study Buddhism. You know this to be true. Buddhism is Nothing. You know this, you study this. This philosophy is so difficult for Westerners to grasp, they become shells. They think too much. They are not being of the body. Other philosophies are much better suited for the Westerner's foundation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 01:09:03 2020 No.16393936 >>16393928 >Zen, which is not Buddhism is there a bigger tip off for a LARPer than this?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 01:09:50 2020 No.16393939 >>16393936 Zen is not Buddhism. Dogen is a phony. He ripped off the Chan masters. DYOR.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 01:17:10 2020 No.16393954

>>16393939
Oh boy, it's you.
'Zen' just refers to the Chan transmission in Japan. Soto Zen is just one of three main Zen sects in Japan. So whatever autism you have against Dogen fall flat towards the other two. I doubt you have even heard of Obaku, as not many people in the west have.
Despite what you think of Chan as a collection of raving lunatics like yourself going around and sawing cats in half to own the normies, Chan has always had a disciplined monastic tradition. Monasteries in both China and Japan use the monastic rules of Baizhang, you know, the master of Rinzai who you jerk off so much.
By degrading the legitimacy of the monastic rules you are also indirectly degrading the legitimacy of the one patriarch you cling to so much, but you have no idea you are even doing so. You're really pitiful to watch in these threads.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 01:29:56 2020 No.16393985

>>16393847
Fuck off vegan tranny. Meat is absolutely essential for human health.

Japan eats the most red meat and has an average life expectancy of 80 something and India eats the least and has an average life expectancy of 60 something.

It will be impossible for us to evolve past it in any considerable amount of time, and anyway, there's always been ethical and ritualistic ways to kill animals.

Can we also talk in general about how for the bulk of the population and for the next million years none of Buddhas final goals are feasibly attainable. People who ignore the Buddhists integral right hand path aspects of getting along with reality for the time being as opposed to only trying to escape it are what makes this harder than it has to be. Samsara is not meant to be escaped but rather conquered to begin with. Samsara is also beyond time and space and conquers both infinitely and leaving it would just erase you from existence, there's no true permanence ever anywhere. For the sake of the Buddhist perspectives which are still inherently valid considerations and fine with this conclusion we need a lengthy and thoughtful approach to such achievements which Buddhism is better at than most faiths but still not immune to the chaoses in deep philosophy or of politics and foolish masses and the wills of nature.

Point being if humans are evolved to be powerful hunters who live off of meat then we have to eat meat, that's just our level in the game right now.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 01:31:32 2020 No.16393987

>>16393954
I don't believe there to be any distinct lineage between Zen Buddhism and Zen. The Zen you speak of, Obaku, accepts and align with Dogen and Haikun. What horsehit! Nearly a century after Huangbo.

I have never discussed zen on /lit/. I was merely saying that I have witnessed Westerners become miserable after. studying Buddhism. I don't care if you think Zen Buddhism is Zen or not. It's your own delusion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 01:34:13 2020 No.16393999 >>16393706 There are religions that have a scientific core like spiritism. Buddhism isnt one of them

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 01:39:13 2020 No.16394012

>>16393987
Well I have to disagree with you on your first point.
However as to your second point, I will say that most people in the West study Zen as some sort of existential philosophy, because that is how it was 'marketed' (more or less) as it first was transmitted to America. It was stripped of most of its religious contexts by intellectuals and essayists who were searching for an Asian philosophy to show that Japan was on par with other nations in terms of modernity and sophistication. They don't understand the basic tenets of the religion.
Practicing Zen without a legitimate Zen teacher will most certainly lead to failure because of this. That's why Dogen just recommended zazen with no expectations for laypeople. Much easier for westerners to practice Jodo Shinsu.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 02:07:07 2020 No.16394098

>>16394012
Yeah, I am going to say again that Westerners who practice Buddhism are typically miserable. Prescribing Buddhism to Western audiences is silly.

Westerners who are attracted to Buddhism are like teenagers who want a Microbus to be their first vehicle. They are attracted to the idea of it. A good car for some, wholly impractical for others.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 02:08:24 2020 No.16394101 taoism is better imo, less denial

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 02:27:15 2020 No.16394143 >>16393766 >>There's even Vedic scriptures which hold meat in high esteem. which ones and what do they say

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 02:42:17 2020 No.16394193 >>16393985 The way Muslims kill animals is very ethical

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 02:50:14 2020 No.16394219

>>16393706
They didn't and the westernized version of it you consume is specifically tailored to suit your materialistic views. Even the most materialistic, "science-y" versions of Buddhism (I'm guessing Thai buddhism is the most famous one here) are full of word juggling to try and surround obvious unscientific concepts such as "rebirth", "karma", "nirvana" and the likes.

>So you're telling me a guy sat under a tree for 7 weeks without eating or breathing?
"W-well not exactly it's just a metaph.."
>Oh ok so the same cope as other religions. Ok so is rebirth literal?
"W-well not exactly it's just that every second you're constantly dying and being reborn when you notice yourself, the cycle of samsara is actually the several moments of your life"
>So to attain nirvana is to stop suffering with these cycles of life, and after death there is nothing?
"Yeah, now you're getting it!"
>So if I killed myself right now I'd obtain the same peace as with Nirvana? If every human killed himself there would be total peace for all?
"Ye-.. wait n-nooo!!"

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 03:04:47 2020 No.16394271 >>16393790 Yeah and? I live in a supposedly christian country that allows abortion and gay marriage

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 04:20:47 2020 No.16394540 >>16393706 >Buddhism >lol you don't exist >lol your self isn't real >lol you should care though >lol we are atheists but spiritual No im not guenonfag

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 04:31:25 2020 No.16394577 >>16393706 >judging spiritual wisdom based on how much it conforms to material science Truly pleb tier.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 04:32:39 2020 No.16394580 >>16394540 Guenon didn't like Buddhism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 05:40:41 2020 No.16394762 >>16394540 More like you are impermanent, your self is impermanent, and you should care because there is suffering. Most Buddhist believe in gods, but they can't reach the enlightenment for you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 05:45:55 2020 No.16394776 >>16394193 What? It's cruel. Halal is the cruelest way to kill animals.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 06:15:51 2020 No.16394873 >>16393706 Is it based to ritual suicide in the process of eating a tree to achieve self mummification? or cringe?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 07:00:36 2020 No.16395035 >>16393766 >quest of Buddhism thats an oxymoron

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 07:26:18 2020 No.16395135

>>16393732
>any religion that has comprehensive metaphysical beliefs yet at the same time respects the beliefs of others and acknowledges them as valid avenues to divine truth is pretty based
That is the opposite of based though. Sounds sissified to me.

If you believe in ultimate truths but is not a zealot about it then what a fucking loser you are. Imagine being a centrist when you don't have to.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 07:32:34 2020 No.16395149 >>16394776 Yea stunning the animals and shoving them in cramped spaces for all their lives is so ethical.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 07:35:55 2020 No.16395157 >>16395149 You're confused, the stunning comes last. The difference between halal and regular white aryan farming is the stunning at the end. Stunning > slitting throat and slowly perishing

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 07:38:35 2020 No.16395162
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>>16393706

>”From whatever new points of view the Buddha's system is tested with reference to its probability, it gives way on all sides, like the walls of a well, dug in sandy soil. It has, in fact, no foundation whatever to rest upon and hence the attempts to use it as a guide in the practical concerns of life are mere folly. Moreover Buddha, by propounding the three mutually contradicting systems, teaching respectively the reality of the external world, the reality of ideas only and general nothingness, has himself made it clear that he was a man given to make incoherent assertions or else that hatred of all beings induced him to propound absurd doctrines by accepting which they would become thoroughly confused…Buddha’s doctrine has to be entirely disregarded by all those who have a regard for their own happiness."

Sri Shankaracharya - Brahma Sutra Bhasya 2.2.32.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 07:46:52 2020 No.16395175 >>16395157 >the stunning comes last What? Why?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 07:49:37 2020 No.16395184 >>16394762 >LOL IF I SAY "IMPERMANENT" INSTEAD OF "NOT REAL" THAT WILL SURELY CONVINCE THESE FOOLS THAT MY DEATHCULT IS WORTH FOLLOWING

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 07:59:14 2020 No.16395206 >>16395162 >intellectual in charge of babbling about buddhism 1000 years after the buddha midwits love this

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:08:30 2020 No.16395234

>>16393985
I agree with you, but do we have good data comparing meat-based diets, and diets with more or less diary and eggs? It may be that the gap between meat-based diets and diets with diary and eggs is not very wide. In which case, just eating more cheese, butter, eggs, etc., could correct for the problem of vegetarianism, who may just be eating too few of the animal-derived foodstuff that's allowed to them.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:11:37 2020 No.16395241

>>16395184
I'm not even a Buddhist. Thinking that:
>THAT WILL SURELY CONVINCE THESE FOOLS THAT MY DEATHCULT IS WORTH FOLLOWING
tells much more about you than me. Christianity is pretty much only religion that has obsession of converting others, not even Islam has that, since they benefit materially from their second class citizens that are not Muslims.
Also, impermanent is not same as not real, retard. Gush of wind is impermanent, but also real.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:15:24 2020 No.16395248 >>16395184 impermanence is not a linguistic veil for illusion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:16:10 2020 No.16395251 >>16395241 >b-b-b-b-b-bUT MOOOOM CHRISTIANS ARE WORSE THEN WE ARE BECAUSE WE ARE NICE AND PEACEFUL! >M-MOM? WHY WONT THESE FILTHY WESTERNERS LOVE MY SHItTY DEATHCULT MOM?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:17:21 2020 No.16395256 >>16395248 >something can be real ultimately if it stops existing This is your brain on buddhism

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:18:50 2020 No.16395263 >>16395251 Lmao what ideology do you ascribe to that makes you type stuff like this? He is hardly even saying anything and you are flying off the rails

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:21:45 2020 No.16395271 >>16395263 >surely if I project my anger onto the people making fun of me that will convince everyone that buddhists are cool and above everything

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:25:18 2020 No.16395285 >>16395271 I’m a third party who was browsing the thread. I’m not a Buddhist and have read one non-canonical Buddhist work. But nice answer

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:35:28 2020 No.16395308

>>16395256
Not a buddhist but the impermanence does not mean it is without concrete existence. This is the hole that nihilists fell in when discussing meaning. "Absolute reality" is what you are arguing for which is just another subsect of reality.
The transient property of the natural world is not an indication of falsehood. The ability for our sense to be fooled is a possible gate to pry open that specific possibility, however because of our nature as "truth-seeker" under that paradigm, that would be just another sense that is falsifiable. Thus "ultimate truth" has no inherent meaning.
However as I am a theist, the world is ultimately an illusion but in treating the world as a clay we can mold without adhering to anything due to the inherent unrealness of it, a danger can arrise which is why I'm not a Buddhist or Hindu that can absolutely facilitate meaning in evil and suffering.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:49:08 2020 No.16395353 >>16393706 Literally demons. That's why it aligns with "modern science" too.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 08:51:01 2020 No.16395366

>>16395256
>things just pop into existence for no reason what so ever
You didn't think this line of thought through, did you? What exactly are you trying to say?

>>16395175
Muslims, like Jews, are not allowed to eat animals that were dead before slaughter, and in many Muslim countries this means that the animal cannot be stunned before death. In many Western countries, however, halal is just "Western slaughter, but some brown guy rambles in Arabic on a loudspeaker in the background", at least legally, and in theory. In practice, its often the traditional method, as that's less costly.

>>16393985
>for the bulk of the population and for the next million years none of Buddhas final goals are feasibly attainable
This is well understood in Buddhism. In fact, it's actually necessary that all of humanity doesn't attain nirvana swiftly. Householders are needed to make more people to become monks, to make more humans to achieve nirvana. You can think of it as pulling souls from the multiverse into humanity, and then they leave via nirvana. The Buddha flat out says several times that there's absolutely nothing wrong with not being a monk, and even if you do become a monk, you'll likely need another lifetime or two to get nirvana anyways.

There's gonna be some autistic guy who gets mad about this, but this is actually really short by Indian standards, compared to Hinduism, where you have no idea how long you have, or Jainism, where enlightenment is essentially luck and takes 1,000,000,000 lifetimes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 09:03:43 2020 No.16395417 >>16395241 >not even Islam has that The Quran literally states that you should convert the unfaithful or kill them if they refuse to be converted (and that might be a good thing)

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 09:11:34 2020 No.16395448 >>16395353 christians will attempt to meditate once, see demons, and get spooked. sorry to tell you buddy, the demons were in you all along

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 09:12:36 2020 No.16395451 if you haven't read this and understood it, don't bother commenting on buddhist metaphysics https://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Miscellaneous/Treatise_on_Golden_Lion.html

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 09:15:18 2020 No.16395468 >>16395451 >buddhist metaphysics is not buddhism

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 09:18:18 2020 No.16395483 >>16393706 Based buddhist anon Im hindu but I like buddhists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 09:19:57 2020 No.16395489 >>16395468 based fool

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 09:22:07 2020 No.16395501 >>16395251 Your posts only make you look laughable, not me. >>16395417 I know, but many times Muslims take the more pragmatic and profitable option, which is just taxing the unfaithful and keeping them as second class citizens.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 09:42:13 2020 No.16395592 >>16395501 "Muslims"

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 09:49:08 2020 No.16395627 >>16395417 Brainlet and Isis-pilled.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 10:05:24 2020 No.16395703 >>16395627 Not him but refute it scripturally though.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 10:39:25 2020 No.16395881

>>16395703
You already set a limit to the sources of Islamic resources. Singling the Quran will render it impossible for the Shari'a to be operable. Even scripturally that verse is in the context of War. The Surah and the number of the verse is required for me to know the specifics.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 10:42:44 2020 No.16395898 >>16395881 I just want you to make your case. I didn't assume Quranism.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 10:50:34 2020 No.16395936
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>>16393985
>Fuck off vegan tranny. Meat is absolutely essential for human health.
its not
even if it was Buddhism does not teach optimization of human health. Buddhism teaching that all things are impermanent and through non clinging suffering is over came
you are clinging to meat.

>Japan eats the most red meat and has an average life expectancy of 80 something and India eats the least and has an average life expectancy of 60 something.
I don't really care. has nothing to do with buddhism

>It will be impossible for us to evolve past it in any considerable amount of time, and anyway, there's always been ethical and ritualistic ways to kill animals.
pretty lofty claim there bud, you going to attempt to prove it?

>Can we also talk in general about how for the bulk of the population and for the next million years none of Buddhas final goals are feasibly attainable
>none of Buddhas final goals are feasibly attainable
"just trust me bro"

>People who ignore the Buddhists integral right hand path aspects of getting along with reality for the time being as opposed to only trying to escape it are what makes this harder than it has to be.
ironically this is what the Buddha taught

>Samsara is not meant to be escaped but rather conquered to begin with
incorrect,

>Samsara is also beyond time and space and conquers both infinitely and leaving it would just erase you from existence
Yes

>there's no true permanence ever anywhere
everything is burning the Buddha taught this

>For the sake of the Buddhist perspectives which are still inherently valid considerations and fine with this conclusion we need a lengthy and thoughtful approach to such achievements which Buddhism is better at than most faiths but still not immune to the chaoses in deep philosophy or of politics and foolish masses and the wills of nature
i don't think anyone argued otherwise

>Point being if humans are evolved to be powerful hunters who live off of meat then we have to eat meat, that's just our level in the game right now.
Yet we don't have to eat meat

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 10:57:38 2020 No.16395971

>>16395936
And ironically, as you show this guy wrong about his attempt at conciliating buddhism and meat-eating, you make buddhism seem all the more evil. Why do you want to die (be erased from existence, supposedly won't happen naturally because muh reincarnation) so much that you'll make your life miserable for it?

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:08:33 2020 No.16396020
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>>16395971
>Why do you want to die (be erased from existence
this is reality whether I believe it or not.

>so much that you'll make your life miserable for it?
if you think life is miserable without X vanity than you are clinging to that thing,
We strive for non clinging for a good rebirth and an end to samsara

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:10:59 2020 No.16396036 Buddhism is against eating meat insofar that YOU, as the Buddhist, are doing the killing of the animal. Monks, depending on the denomination, are allowed to eat meat if given to them via alms -- with some meats being disallowed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:15:10 2020 No.16396057 >>16396036 >Buddhism is against eating meat insofar that YOU, as the Buddhist, are doing the killing of the animal. Yeah this is retarded. Hence hunting is immoral but going to the supermarket to buy a factory farmed steak is not.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:18:12 2020 No.16396073 >>16396057 the precept is to abstain from killing not abstain from meat eating hunting breaks that precept, the grocery store does not.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:20:13 2020 No.16396083 >>16396073 Bad precept. Must be rejected.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:20:30 2020 No.16396086

>>16396020
>this is reality whether I believe it or not.
This is a really meaningless answer. What do you mean that it's a reality that you want to be erased from existence? I'm asking you *why* you want that.
>if you think life is miserable without X vanity than you are clinging to that thing,
>We strive for non clinging for a good rebirth and an end to samsara
Ok, so you don't like meat. This guy does (he's "clinging" to it, i.e. taking pleasure in it and wants to renew that pleasure from time to time). Why should he not?
I understand good rebirth would be a reason ; making your life worst for now, to have it be better in the future. But I see no proof of it, and as most people don't seem to remember past lives, even if there was reincarnation, I don't see why one should care.
As to why one should want to end samsara, as you admitted it's equal to "being erased from existence", I phrased the question above.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:22:00 2020 No.16396093 >>16395157 Sliting thoat is a pretty quick way to die given the major arteries.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:23:18 2020 No.16396095

Can someone explain to me how a religion that fixates on nothingness as a concept is not nihilist in essence? ''Sunyata, in Buddhist philosophy, the voidness that constitutes ultimate reality; sunyata is seen not as a negation of existence but rather as the undifferentiation out of which all apparent entities, distinctions, and dualities arise.'' In my book this equates to nihilism explained with a pretty philosophy

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:27:23 2020 No.16396118
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>>16396086
>This is a really meaningless answer. What do you mean that it's a reality that you want to be erased from existence? I'm asking you *why* you want that.
you're asking why a person wants an end to suffering. Its pretty obvious

>Ok, so you don't like meat
never said this try again

>This guy does (he's "clinging" to it, i.e. taking pleasure in it and wants to renew that pleasure from time to time).
Yes this is the clinging the Buddha taught about

>Why should he not?
clinging leads to suffering, suffering leads to a bad rebirth

>making your life worst for now, to have it be better in the future
if you think not eating meat makes your life worse you're already clinging

>But I see no proof of it
you could try meditating or reading the Buddha's teachings but if you still don't see "proof" no one really cares.

>I don't see why one should care
for a good rebirth and an end to suffering

>As to why one should want to end samsara, as you admitted it's equal to "being erased from existence", I phrased the question above
for an end to suffering

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:30:52 2020 No.16396138
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>>16396095
you're just projecting your own nihilism onto Buddhism

>the voidness that constitutes ultimate reality; sunyata is seen not as a negation of existence but rather as the undifferentiation out of which all apparent entities, distinctions, and dualities arise.'' In my book this equates to nihilism
ok well this isn't even nihilism

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:32:07 2020 No.16396143

>>16396118
>you're asking why a person wants an end to suffering. Its pretty obvious
No, I'm asking why a person would want an end to their life. You admitted an end to samsara is being erased from existence. Most people would rather suffer from time to time than be erased from existence.
>never said this try again
It's rhetorical, you retard, read it in context.
>clinging leads to suffering
Doesn't seem to me that eating meat, and taking pleasure in it, leads to mostly suffering. Maybe some, from time to time, but most of my life I am enjoying food and taking pleasure in it, not suffering.
>if you think not eating meat makes your life worse you're already clinging
I take pleasure in eating meat, more than I suffer from it. I know you call it clinging to make it icky, but I call it desire, preference, action, whatever you want, and I'm asking you to show me why it's bad, if the alternative is being erased from existence.
>suffering leads to a bad rebirth
No proof of that.
>you could try meditating or reading the Buddha's teachings but if you still don't see "proof" no one really cares.
Everyone has tried meditating, and the Buddha's teachings don't provide proofs of this reincarnation system with its specific karma stuff you're arguing, it just asserts it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:34:15 2020 No.16396153 >>16393766 good take on the eating meat part, there’s too many delusional retards on lit who don’t think you need meat.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:36:24 2020 No.16396165 >>16396153 no one responded to you so you're samefagging? lmao and you don't need meat.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:43:14 2020 No.16396210
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>>16396143
>No, I'm asking why a person would want an end to their life
thats a question for a psychologist of some suicide prevention coach.
killing yourself isn't a Buddhist teaching

>You admitted an end to samsara is being erased from existence. Most people would rather suffer from time to time than be erased from existence
how is what "most people" want somehow an argument?

>It's rhetorical, you retard, read it in context.
lol cope

>Doesn't seem to me that eating meat, and taking pleasure in it, leads to mostly suffering
ok? I don't really care about your opinion if it runs counter to to Buddha's teachings.
>Maybe some, from time to time, but most of my life I am enjoying food and taking pleasure in it, not suffering.
Don't really care about your life experiences anon
The Buddha taught that clinging leads to suffering, suffering leads to a bad rebirth
through non clinging we are lead to a good rebirth and eventually the end of suffering.

>I take pleasure in eating meat, more than I suffer from it. I know you call it clinging to make it icky, but I call it desire, preference, action, whatever you want, and I'm asking you to show me why it's bad, if the alternative is being erased from existence.
this is just another example of clinging to meat. Really nothing here for me to respond to.

>>suffering leads to a bad rebirth
>No proof of that.
no one is trying to prove it to you.

>Everyone has tried meditating
no proof of that :^)

>the Buddha's teachings don't provide proofs of this reincarnation system with its specific karma stuff you're arguing, it just asserts it.
Yes.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:48:14 2020 No.16396239

>>16396210
hi, not that retarded anon that is using lived experience for some reason, but why would eating meat in itself be considered "Clinging"? wouldnt it only be clinging if you go out of your way to eat meat? its just one of many food sorces, being preferential about what you eat would be clingy, no? if someone lays meat on your plate and you eat it, how is it any different than eating the rice?

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:50:27 2020 No.16396252

>>16396210
>thats a question for a psychologist of some suicide prevention coach.
>killing yourself isn't a Buddhist teaching
Working towards being erased from existence is similar to how an atheist thinks of suicide, right? Anyway, don't call it suicide if you want, I'm asking you why you want that.
>how is what "most people" want somehow an argument?
An argument for what? I'm not arguing retard, I'm asking you why you want to die, stop existing, be nada. Certainly insofar as you're not answering, I'm working off the assumption you have a regular psyche.
>Don't really care about your life experiences anon
>The Buddha taught that clinging leads to suffering, suffering leads to a bad rebirth
>through non clinging we are lead to a good rebirth and eventually the end of suffering.
Well the Buddha was full of shit. Many people, on their dying bed, will tell you their life was mostly good, they mostly enjoyed it (and they, for exemple, mostly enjoyed eating and eating meat). Are they all lying?
>no one is trying to prove it to you.
If you have no argument for why you believe it, I don't know why you believe it.
>no proof of that :^)
So now you also have a problem with hyperbolic statements? I obviously mean by that that it's a very common thing, I'm sure some literal brain-damaged microcephalic has as of now never tried it somewhere.
>Yes.
Nice twitter meme nigger. So you admit you just assert your dumb nigger beliefs and can't defend them?

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:52:18 2020 No.16396265
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>>16396239
>but why would eating meat in itself be considered "Clinging"?
eating meat by itself isn't clinging and above I pointed out the precept is to abstain from killing not abstain from meat eating.
The clinging I am referring to is the anons ITT that have such an opposition to non meat eating which is an obvious example of their clinging to meat.
and also you don't "need" meat to live

it is a microcosm of human eating habits and clinging to them

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 11:52:44 2020 No.16396267 >>16396239 >not that retarded anon that is using lived experience for some reason You're the retard, how do you intend to know if something is overall painful or overall pleasant without referring to lived experience?

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 12:17:40 2020 No.16396407
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>>16396252
>Working towards being erased from existence is similar to how an atheist thinks of suicide, right?
No

>An argument for what? I'm not arguing retard,
then why are you making retarded statements like muh most peepoo?
retard
>I'm asking you why you want to die,
everyone dies anon this is nothing new

>Well the Buddha was full of shit.
lol

>Many people, on their dying bed, will tell you their life was mostly good, they mostly enjoyed it (and they, for exemple, mostly enjoyed eating and eating meat). Are they all lying?
Something tells me you just made that up.

>If you have no argument for why you believe it, I don't know why you believe it.
meditation and reading the teachings of the Dharma

>So now you also have a problem with hyperbolic statements
only ones you have no proofs :^)

>I obviously mean by that that it's a very common thing, I'm sure some literal brain-damaged microcephalic has as of now never tried it somewhere
and commonality is suppose to mean something?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 12:27:51 2020 No.16396462 >>16395448 christians have been meditating for 2000 years, and we are better at it then you

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 12:28:38 2020 No.16396465

>>16396407
>No
How so? You will cease to exist, cease to have experience of anything, cease to have a self ; what distinguishes it from atheist death?
>then why are you making retarded statements like muh most peepoo?
I literally wrote in the very sentence you're quoting : "I'm not arguing retard, I'm asking you why you want to die, stop existing, be nada. Certainly insofar as you're not answering, I'm working off the assumption you have a regular psyche." (hence the reference to normal thought, normal preferences, etc.)
And I'm insulting you because you're arguing in a smug and unproductive manner, you honestly deserve it.
>Something tells me you just made that up.
Where do you live where people die hating their life, concluding they didn't take pleasure from food (or friends, family, etc.)? This is honestly baffling.
>meditation and reading the teachings of the Dharma
Meditation provides you a direct experience of what you advance (reincarnation existing and working as you say, for exemple)? How do you know you're not mistaken?
Isn't the point of reading teachings to gather arguments from them? Or do you just rely on them as revelation, like, say, a Hindu with the Vedas or a Christian with the Bible?
>only ones you have no proofs :^)
Hyperbolic means it's an exageration. But assuming you mean by that that I need to prove to you most people have meditated, I can only rely on my experience ; most people I know have at least one in their life, in silence, tried to stop all thought and attention in their mind, or focus on a specific thing and stop all other thought or attention in their mind. It seems like a very natural thing to try. If I'm wrong though, doesn't change anything to what I said... It's not important to have a powerful grounding for an unimportant belief like this one. It's important to have a powerful grounding for a literal ascetic practice that works off a description the very nature of reality, like Buddhism.
>and commonality is suppose to mean something?
It shows that it's not obvious meditating will lead you to the conclusions it has led you. For exemple, meditation is not specific to buddhism, is common to many religions, and they don't reach the conclusions you described.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 12:29:04 2020 No.16396467 >>16395501 >Your posts only make you look laughable, not me. Whatever makes you sleep better at night buttercup, your butthist butthurt is showing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 12:30:35 2020 No.16396476 >>16395971 >you make buddhism seem all the more evil Thats not just what it seems like anon. Buddhism is a religion or evil.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 12:32:26 2020 No.16396486 >>16396095 Your reasoning is correct, buddhists worship impossibility and self negation.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 12:37:49 2020 No.16396509
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>>16396465
>How so? You will cease to exist, cease to have experience of anything, cease to have a self ; what distinguishes it from atheist death?
Atheists have no concept of nirvana

>I literally wrote in the very sentence you're quoting : "I'm not arguing retard, I'm asking you why you want to die, stop existing, be nada. Certainly insofar as you're not answering, I'm working off the assumption you have a regular psyche." (hence the reference to normal thought, normal preferences, etc.)
already answered that

>And I'm insulting you because you're arguing in a smug and unproductive manner, you honestly deserve it.
lol mad

>Where do you live where people die hating their life, concluding they didn't take pleasure from food (or friends, family, etc.)? This is honestly baffling.
when did i say this?

>Meditation provides you a direct experience of what you advance (reincarnation existing and working as you say, for exemple)? How do you know you're not mistaken?
I don't and never claimed to

>Isn't the point of reading teachings to gather arguments from them?
the point is to attain nirvana

>Hyperbolic means it's an exageration
"I wasn't incorrect I was Hyperbolic"
ok

>But assuming you mean by that that I need to prove to you most people have meditated
I mean you did try to use "most people meditated" as some sort of argument or something when you clearly made that up.

>It shows that it's not obvious meditating will lead you to the conclusions it has led you
I didn't say meditation will always lead to enllightenment but meditation is vital to enlightenment.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 12:46:46 2020 No.16396551

>>16396509
>Atheists have no concept of nirvana
What is your conception of nirvana that distinguishes it from death, if in it, you will cease to exist, cease to have experience of anything, cease to have a self?
>already answered that
So you have anormal thoughts, anormal preferences? Because it is very strange to want to cease to exist in order to stop suffering. Is that really your answer, you want to cease to have experiences of anything because you fear suffering?
>when did i say this?
I said that many people on their dying bed will tell you their life was mostly good and enjoyable ; and they would say, for exemple, they mostly enjoyed eating and eating meat. You answered that I made that up ; so I'm asking you, do you really deny that most people find pleasure in food, and when they die, regret not having had lived longer and partaken in more pleasures? It's the common experience of anyone who's been around very old people that if there is anything they still enjoy, it's eating, being with their family, etc., and that most want this to keep going for as long as possible.
>the point is to attain nirvana
Why is nirvana to be desired, how do you know they show the way to get there - and how do you know what they say regarding other topics is true, because we both know buddhism says by implication things about the world and how it functions.
>"I wasn't incorrect I was Hyperbolic"
So you think I sincerely thought micro-cephalics and two-months old babies had tried meditating? Are you pretending to be stupid?
>I mean you did try to use "most people meditated" as some sort of argument or something when you clearly made that up.
Pfff stop reaching like that. My argument is that meditation doesn't get most people to the conclusions you've gotten to. It's obviously true, if only by virtue of the number of people who meditate and aren't Buddhists.
>I didn't say meditation will always lead to enllightenment but meditation is vital to enlightenment.
Not my point, see above.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 13:02:28 2020 No.16396635

>>16396095 >>16396138

>>16396486
Sunyata is an idea from the Mahayana commentators.
buddhism is about
>"And what is dependent co-arising? From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 13:11:28 2020 No.16396682 >>16395162 t. the guy who copied the Buddha

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 13:15:09 2020 No.16396703
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>>16396551
>What is your conception of nirvana that distinguishes it from death, if in it, you will cease to exist, cease to have experience of anything, cease to have a self?
Nirvana can't be explained in a 4chan post
https://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Mind-Stilled_HTML.htm

>So you have anormal thoughts, anormal preferences?
what?

>Because it is very strange to want to cease to exist in order to stop suffering
to you

>Is that really your answer, you want to cease to have experiences of anything because you fear suffering
Attainment of Nirvana is the answer

>I said that many people on their dying bed will tell you their life was mostly good and enjoyable
sounds like you made this up
many/most people doing something is meaningless even if what you're saying is true.

>do you really deny that most people find pleasure in food, and when they die, regret not having had lived longer and partaken in more pleasures?
I never said that though.
Also the goal of Buddhism is enlightenment not "no regrets" on your death bed.

>It's the common experience of anyone who's been around very old people that if there is anything they still enjoy, it's eating, being with their family, etc., and that most want this to keep going for as long as possible
what old people enjoy is irrelevant to buddhism

>Why is nirvana to be desired
Nirvana is the ceasing of all suffering

>how do you know they show the way to get there
pic related

>and how do you know what they say regarding other topics is true
meditation and practicing the dharma

>So you think I sincerely thought micro-cephalics and two-months old babies had tried meditating? Are you pretending to be stupid?
you were wrong and are sperging when called out. moving on..

>My argument is that meditation doesn't get most people to the conclusions you've gotten to
yeah this is exactly what the buddha taught no Buddhist relies on meditation'alone. stop reaching like that :^)

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 13:17:24 2020 No.16396717 >>16396239 Yes, you are correct, that's why normally vegetarian monks will eat meat if it is given to them as a gift (see the Dalai Lama).

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 13:34:50 2020 No.16396814 >the buddha wants me to eat my tendies This board is a joke.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 13:40:28 2020 No.16396851

>>16396703
>Nirvana can't be explained in a 4chan post
I was going to read through this but this is huge, and I'm not asking you a complete account of Nirvana ; give me one property it has that distinguishes it from atheist death, and you find desirable, and why. That's all.
>what?
If you have a demented mind, asking you why you want X or Y is much less meaningful, since I might not even understand your basic motivations.
>to you
No, to any functional person, and for a very simple reason ; ceasing to exist, you cease to have any experience, including pleasant ones, or ones you desire. Again, I still have no idea why to extinguish suffering one would want to extinguish all pleasure, all experience.
>Attainment of Nirvana is the answer
So you only get why you should want Nirvana once you're there?
>sounds like you made this up
Still no idea why you say that. Don't you interact with old people, ever?
>many/most people doing something is meaningless even if what you're saying is true.
>Also the goal of Buddhism is enlightenment not "no regrets" on your death bed.
>what old people enjoy is irrelevant to buddhism
So Buddhism is irrelevant to the goals of conscious beings? I thought it was supposed to be very relevant to that. But most humans don't just want suffering to cease (most don't even want all suffering to cease) ; they want to have pleasant and varied experiences.
If you're arguing they're wrong, why? Buddhism is concieved as practical, as the solution to the riddle of life ; yet it contradicts the perspective on life of most people who go through it - including people as attentive and interested in truth as Buddhists, if not more. Why trust it?
>pic related
It's a description of the way to get there, but ok, I get it, in detailing the steps it details the effects of the practices and thus it shows how it's effective, and arguably you see it while you do it. You might be right there.
>meditation and practicing the dharma
Once again, I ask you how meditation and practicing the dharma shows you the truth of the doctrine of reincarnation for exemple. I have basically two questions there ; why do you want to cease existing, cease having experiences and how it is different from death, and how do you know all the descriptive stuff in buddhist doctrine that you assume regarding actions to take is true.
I can admit that you cease to have experiences at the end of practice and that the process can be described in a credible fashion. I don't get why you want it and I don't get how you argue doctrines like "meat incurs Karma and bad reincarnations".

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 13:41:31 2020 No.16396856

>>16396703
>yeah this is exactly what the buddha taught no Buddhist relies on meditation'alone. stop reaching like that :^)
The Advaitins or the Jesuits maybe have the good ways doing meditation. They claim to reach ultimate reality, provide a way to do the same, etc. Again, admitting efficiency of buddhist meditation to attain ceasing of the self and experience, what makes it so that this isn't the bad way of doing meditation, and meditation aimed at uniting with God, for exemple, is the good way?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 13:52:42 2020 No.16396934 >>16393766 >Only thing I disagree with is the Vegetarianism your inner burger is speaking. silly american

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 13:55:34 2020 No.16396948 >>16393732 >respects the beliefs of others and acknowledges them as valid avenues to divine truth is pretty based. Read literally any Pali or Mahayana text and half of it will be the Buddha dunking on other sects or infidels

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:00:02 2020 No.16396982 >>16394219 Yeah if you deny rebirth, ie any sort of metaphysics beyond phenomenonal existence that would explain the matter we see arising and passing away, then of course it becomes nihilism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:01:18 2020 No.16396988 >>16396982 Rebirth is actually a bad thing. The goal is to exit the cycle of rebirths. So I don't see how that changes anything.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:05:30 2020 No.16397015

>>16396851
>was going to read through this but this is huge, and I'm not asking you a complete account of Nirvana ; give me one property it has that distinguishes it from atheist death, and you find desirable, and why. That's all.
being a buddha

>If you have a demented mind, asking you why you want X or Y is much less meaningful, since I might not even understand your basic motivations.
anormal thoughts, anormal preferences have nothing to do with buddhism

>No, to any functional person,
are you making things up again or being HYPERBOLIC

>Again, I still have no idea why to extinguish suffering one would want to extinguish all pleasure, all experience.
that is part of ending suffering

>So you only get why you should want Nirvana once you're there?
wanting the end of suffering is very instinctual

>So Buddhism is irrelevant to the goals of conscious beings?
how do you rationalize this one

>But most humans don't just want suffering to cease
again you're just making things up now

>Buddhism is concieved as practical, as the solution to the riddle of life ; yet it contradicts the perspective on life of most people who go through it - including people as attentive and interested in truth as Buddhists, if not more. Why trust it?
Buddhism is practical for the attainment of Nirvana. If solution to the riddle of life" is you being rich and a long happy life Buddhism does not have those goals

>Once again, I ask you how meditation and practicing the dharma shows you the truth of the doctrine of reincarnation for exemple
You asked how you know this to be true I told you meditation and practicing the dharma.
You can take my word for it or try it yourself or do neither and dwell in ignorance
this is a never ending string of how how how.

>why do you want to cease existing, cease having experiences
to end suffering

>how it is different from death,
it ends the cycle of rebirth

>and how do you know all the descriptive stuff in buddhist doctrine that you assume regarding actions to take is true.
faith

>I don't get why you want it
to end suffering

>I don't get how you argue doctrines like "meat incurs Karma and bad reincarnations".
I never said that specifically

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:12:10 2020 No.16397061

>>16396988
Not believing in rebirth changes everything. The Buddhist modernists who claim rebirth is a momental thing and not an actual cycle of lives are basically gutting the entire religion to appeal to Western apostates from Christianity who 'fucking love science' and think metaphysics is gibberish. These people would say we are all made of stardust but then deny the potential for that matter to endlessly reconfigure itself in time and space to be known to us as phenomena.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:18:54 2020 No.16397105

>>16397015
>being a buddha
But I thought you'd ceased existing? So no, you actually still are, and have properties at that, right?
>anormal thoughts, anormal preferences have nothing to do with buddhism
Yes... Hence
>are you making things up again or being HYPERBOLIC
Why are you discussing in such an autistic manner? Yes this is hyperbole you irritating shit, I'm sure you're very functional, thus constituting a holy exception to the rule, whatever. People want to have pleasant and varied experiences and even consider a moderate amount of suffering necessary. If they didn't, atheists for exemple would all kill themselves, because that would imply the end of all suffering.
>wanting the end of suffering is very instinctual
And wanting to die (cease existing, cease having experiences) is very much against our most basic instincts.
>how do you rationalize this one
Because conscious beings strive to realize concrete states of mind, like pleasure, melancholy or love, not to cease existing in order to cease suffering. If they did, all those who don't believe in an afterlife would kill themselves.
>again you're just making things up now
So you think no one ever desires anything else than not suffering?
>Buddhism is practical for the attainment of Nirvana. If solution to the riddle of life" is you being rich and a long happy life Buddhism does not have those goals
Buddhism explicitely has as its goal that all conscious beings reach Nirvana. So it better be good for all conscious beings.
>You asked how you know this to be true I told you meditation and practicing the dharma.
>You can take my word for it or try it yourself or do neither and dwell in ignorance
It simply doesn't seem possible for me to know such things through meditation. There are other ways of gaining knowledge. I don't see how meditation provides you the doctrine of karma and reincarnation when it doesn't do so to people who meditate, but without the culturally contingent framework of buddhism in their mind.
>it ends the cycle of rebirth
I obviously meant how is it different from atheistic death, as we've been discussing for a long time. Atheistic death is nothing, ceasing to exist, ceasing to suffer, etc. If cessation of suffering is the only goal of existence, atheists should strive to kill themselves.
>I never said that specifically
You get my point ; there is a network of does and don't in Buddhism, like in all religions.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:29:43 2020 No.16397177 >>16393847 >Ironically this is the type of behavior the Buddha taught to shy away Which is why pretty much every buddhist tradition that isn't based in california puts GREAT emphasis on buddha being born high caste?

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:31:51 2020 No.16397195
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>>16397105
>But I thought you'd ceased existing? So no, you actually still are, and have properties at that, right?
being a Buddha is beyond being and non being

>Why are you discussing in such an autistic manner? Yes this is hyperbole you irritating shit
>I'm sure you're very functional, thus constituting a holy exception to the rule, whatever
what are you even on about

>People want to have pleasant and varied experiences and even consider a moderate amount of suffering necessary. If they didn't, atheists for exemple would all kill themselves, because that would imply the end of all suffering
am I suppose to care?

>And wanting to die
never said this but yet you still try and push it.
>(cease existing, cease having experiences) is very much against our most basic instincts.
yes the concept of nirvana isn't an instinct, however ending suffering is.

>Because conscious beings strive to realize concrete states of mind, like pleasure, melancholy or love, not to cease existing in order to cease suffering. If they did, all those who don't believe in an afterlife would kill themselves.
Yes this is part of the clinging the Buddha taught

>So you think no one ever desires anything else than not suffering?
yes people cling to their desires this is a very basic concept in Buddhism

>Buddhism explicitely has as its goal that all conscious beings reach Nirvana. So it better be good for all conscious beings.
Yes exiting the cycle of suffering is preferable to staying in it.

>It simply doesn't seem possible for me to know such things through meditation
for you. thats a personal problem

>I obviously meant how is it different from atheistic death, as we've been discussing for a long time. Atheistic death is nothing, ceasing to exist, ceasing to suffer, etc. If cessation of suffering is the only goal of existence, atheists should strive to kill themselves.
becauses atheists still get reborn and stay in samara

>You get my point ; there is a network of does and don't in Buddhism, like in all religions.
yes its called the precepts,

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:40:36 2020 No.16397256

>>16397195
>being a Buddha is beyond being and non being
So it neither is nor isn't? Well if that's what we're reaching, better end the discussion there. A question ; is this stance universal to all buddhist sects? Because it's absurd on its face.
>what are you even on about
So you don't get humour either?
>am I suppose to care?
If Buddhism is supposed to be useful and serve the goals of men, yeah. Unless you can show that they're wrong.
>never said this but yet you still try and push it.
Because ceasing to exist and have experiences is literally the atheistic notion of death. Now if you want to add properties to that (non-)state to make it different, go ahead, but they're logically contradictory to it. Which I'm guessing you don't care about.
>Yes this is part of the clinging the Buddha taught
>yes people cling to their desires this is a very basic concept in Buddhism
You name it such to give it a negative connotation. The problem is precisely that you start saying "of course Nirvana is desirable, it's the end of suffering", and when I tell you that it's not obvious it's desirable, since it's also the end of every conscious experience including pleasant ones, and people desire those, you say "but those desires are wrong". Well show it ; at least tell me why you, yourself, desire only an end to suffering and absolutely nothing else.
>becauses atheists still get reborn and stay in samara
That's not why they don't kill themselves, since they don't think they get reborn.
So why don't they kill themselves, since it would end their sufferings? The obvious answer is that they desire other things than ending their sufferings, what you call 'clinging' ; see point just above.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:41:49 2020 No.16397261

Oh and
>>16397195
>for you. thats a personal problem
No, not for me, since people from many tradition meditate, and come to different conclusions than the buddhist ones. It's overwhelmingly people who are buddhists who, when meditating, find confirmation of buddhist doctrine. Strange, huh?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:47:06 2020 No.16397297 >>16396265 >>16396717 Cool, good to know. Thats always something i thought. Its shouldnt be the act of eating meat itself to be a problem, but its the act of killing that could be a problem. i think the two are easy to conflate.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 14:59:06 2020 No.16397375
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>>16397256
>is this stance universal to all buddhist sects?
yes

>Because it's absurd on its face
you just lack an understanding of it

>So you don't get humour either?
you got the whole squad laughin

>If Buddhism is supposed to be useful and serve the goals of men, yeah. Unless you can show that they're wrong.
Buddhism is useful to achieve enlightenment

>Because ceasing to exist and have experiences is literally the atheistic notion of death
atheists have no concept of after death

>The problem is precisely that you start saying "of course Nirvana is desirable, it's the end of suffering",
ending all suffering is pretty desirable.

>since it's also the end of every conscious experience including pleasant ones, and people desire those
what makes you think I or the Buddha or Buddhist philosophy cares what people "desire"

>you say "but those desires are wrong". Well show it
yeah the Buddha did 2500 years ago
clinging leads to attachment to samsara

>That's not why they don't kill themselves, since they don't think they get reborn.
ok?

>So why don't they kill themselves, since it would end their sufferings?
because they're scared of death

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 15:08:25 2020 No.16397417 >>16397261 never said meditation alone leads to Buddhism

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 15:11:31 2020 No.16397431

We're pretty much done here, it seems.
>>16397375
>yes
Well of course it's a point against it from my stance. It'd take a lot to make it worthy of biting the bullet of accepting logical contradictions (and ones of that order).
>you just lack an understanding of it
It's a logical contradiction. You know how they can be argued? You argue that things that are true entail them ultimately, and that they're relative to a specific type of thing and don't "spill over" your whole ontology. You haven't done that or shown any reason to accept them here. You desire something that's by definition impossible, because you've been told it wasn't. What if the Buddha and other enlightened people who preach of having reached such an impossible state have just broken their sense of reality with their mental exercises? Do you even accept that as a possibility? I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.
>you got the whole squad laughin
I laughed, I'm bathing in tears of joy.
>atheists have no concept of after death
Yes they do ; nothingness, ceasing to exist, ceasing to have experiences all things you have are aspects of Nirvana.
>ending all suffering is pretty desirable.
Not if it requires you to stop having any kind of experience, not if you have to bet on the possibility of logical contradictions for it not to amount to literal suicide/pure nothingness with no properties.
>what makes you think I or the Buddha or Buddhist philosophy cares what people "desire"
It cares about the desire of people to cease suffering. I don't see why the desire to have a variety of other mental states aside from non-suffering has a different status.
>ok?
>because they're scared of death
Yes, so we agree that it's very rare to only care about putting an end to suffering ; people want things within life. So see point above.
>never said meditation alone leads to Buddhism
You said you know what you know because of meditation and reading the teachings of the buddha. You stand on an equal foot to anyone who'll say he knows what he knows by Jesuit meditation and reading the Bible, or Yoga and the Vedas, all of which contradict your doctrine. It's obviously unconvincing (with regards to their doctrines too).

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 15:13:19 2020 No.16397440 >>16395135 Imagine understanding universal, ultimate truths and still giving a fuck if anybody else does.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 15:29:16 2020 No.16397509
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>>16397431
>It's a logical contradiction. You know how they can be argued?
you lack an understanding of Buddhism and claim its other people's fault you don't get a buddhist concept
hmmm

>You argue that things that are true entail them ultimately
I'm not trying to convince you of Buddhism

>What if the Buddha and other enlightened people who preach of having reached such an impossible state have just broken their sense of reality with their mental exercises? Do you even accept that as a possibility?
Nope the Buddha is an enlightened being who achieved Nirvana

>>atheists have no concept of after death
>Yes they do ; nothingness, ceasing to exist, ceasing to have experiences all things you have are aspects of Nirvana.
and you get this from some authoritative atheist text? oh..right...

>Not if it requires you to stop having any kind of experience
and where do you get this from? your feelings?

>It cares about the desire of people to cease suffering. I don't see why the desire to have a variety of other mental states aside from non-suffering has a different status.
again you lack an understanding of Buddhism and then are confused at Buddhist concept
this is a you problem not a problem with the Buddha's teachings

>Yes, so we agree that it's very rare to only care about putting an end to suffering ; people want things within life. So see point above.
how is this relevant?

>You said you know what you know because of meditation and reading the teachings of the buddha
correct

>You stand on an equal foot to anyone who'll say he knows what he knows by Jesuit meditation and reading the Bible, or Yoga and the Vedas, all of which contradict your doctrine. It's obviously unconvincing (with regards to their doctrines too).
Yep
and?

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 15:41:15 2020 No.16397575

>>16397509
>you lack an understanding of Buddhism and claim its other people's fault you don't get a buddhist concept
So Buddhism claims you can understand Nirvana and its internal contradictions without experiencing it?
Anyway, I'm just showing you one way the instanciation of logical contradictions is sometimes argued. If you don't want to do it at all it's fine.
>I'm not trying to convince you of Buddhism
I'm trying to get why you believe it, so unless you don't care about having rational motives behind your beliefs at all, that doesn't really change anything.
>Nope the Buddha is an enlightened being who achieved Nirvana
So you just disregard the possibility for no good reason. What a stupid thing to say.
>and you get this from some authoritative atheist text? oh..right...
What are you even saying? I'm just describing what atheists believe. I'm not saying it's true or false.
>and where do you get this from? your feelings?
You said you'd stop existing. Are you now denying that that's also the disappearance of your consciousness? I said multiple times before that's how I understood it.
>this is a you problem not a problem with the Buddha's teachings
Blah blah. How do you justify the desire to end suffering taking priority to the desire to have a variety of other mental states aside from non-suffering? Remember Buddhism has as its goal the enlightenment of all conscious beings, so it has to be something else than "I prefer it".
>how is this relevant?
It's relevant because paragraph above : you provide no reason why people shouldn't desire other things than an end to their suffering, like they do. It doesn't seem true that it's somehow the "true meaning of existence", if it goes against many of our most basic instincts.
>Yep
>and?
So you admit you have no better reason to believe Buddhism than to believe Hindu or Christian doctrine?

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 15:43:22 2020 No.16397589

kek that was unvoluntary. I'll repost it.
>>16397509
>you lack an understanding of Buddhism and claim its other people's fault you don't get a buddhist concept
So Buddhism claims you can understand Nirvana and its internal contradictions without experiencing it?
Anyway, I'm just showing you one way the instanciation of logical contradictions is sometimes argued. If you don't want to do it at all it's fine.
>I'm not trying to convince you of Buddhism
I'm trying to get why you believe it, so unless you don't care about having rational motives behind your beliefs at all, that doesn't really change anything.
>Nope the Buddha is an enlightened being who achieved Nirvana
So you just disregard the possibility for no good reason. What a stupid thing to say.
>and you get this from some authoritative atheist text? oh..right...
What are you even saying? I'm just describing what atheists believe. I'm not saying it's true or false.
>and where do you get this from? your feelings?
You said you'd stop existing. Are you now denying that that's also the disappearance of your consciousness? I said multiple times before that's how I understood it.
>this is a you problem not a problem with the Buddha's teachings
Blah blah. How do you justify the desire to end suffering taking priority to the desire to have a variety of other mental states aside from non-suffering? Remember Buddhism has as its goal the enlightenment of all conscious beings, so it has to be something else than "I prefer it".
>how is this relevant?
It's relevant because paragraph above : you provide no reason why people shouldn't desire other things than an end to their suffering, like they do. It doesn't seem true that it's somehow the "true meaning of existence", if it goes against many of our most basic instincts.
>Yep
>and?
So you admit you have no better reason to believe Buddhism than to believe Hindu or Christian doctrine?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 15:45:29 2020 No.16397604 >>16393706 >doing pujas to appease hungry ghosts is consistent with modern science

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 15:55:35 2020 No.16397658
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>>16397589
>So Buddhism claims you can understand Nirvana and its internal contradictions without experiencing it?
when did i say this?
>Anyway, I'm just showing you one way the instanciation of logical contradictions is sometimes argued. If you don't want to do it at all it's fine.
you don't understand a buddhist concept and cry logical contradictions

>I'm trying to get why you believe it, so unless you don't care about having rational motives behind your beliefs at all, that doesn't really change anything.
like I said. meditation and practicing the Dharma

>So you just disregard the possibility for no good reason. What a stupid thing to say.
deal with it

>What are you even saying? I'm just describing what atheists believe. I'm not saying it's true or false.
who says thats what atheists believe? you?

>You said you'd stop existing. Are you now denying that that's also the disappearance of your consciousness? I said multiple times before that's how I understood it.
I said ending all suffering is pretty desirable.
you said:
Not if it requires you to stop having any kind of experience
to which i replied with
and where do you get this from? your feelings?
how is your reply in anyway related to that/

>How do you justify the desire to end suffering taking priority to the desire to have a variety of other mental states aside from non-suffering?
because that is what the Buddha taught

>Remember Buddhism has as its goal the enlightenment of all conscious beings, so it has to be something else than "I prefer it".
Yes the buddha taught that the end of suffering is preferable to suffering

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 16:08:56 2020 No.16397736

I'm gonna go to sleep soon so I answer this, you answer it (if you want), and then whatever, but I won't post anything long.
>>16397658
>when did i say this?
You say "you lack an understanding of Buddhism and claim its other people's fault you don't get a buddhist concept". I think it implies you do, at least. If you don't, then we're on an equal standing, so why wouldn't I give you an exemple of a way to argue it?
>you don't understand a buddhist concept and cry logical contradictions
It is a logical contradiction. You say a Buddha neither is nor isn't. How can that even be understood?
>deal with it
I'm dealing with it by thinking it's a stupid thing. I think that's pretty fair.
>who says thats what atheists believe? you?
I have no idea where you are going with this. The vast majority of atheists don't believe in an afterlife. I don't see how this is up for debate. Do I need to find you stats or something?
>how is your reply in anyway related to that?
You said ending all suffering is done in Nirvana, and in Nirvana, you cease existing. I've said multiple times before that I took it as implying you no longer have experiences. How can you have experiences if you don't exist?
Even if you do though ; do you take pleasure in them? Doesn't taking pleasure in things imply a form of 'clinging'? If it does, then I guess no. If it doesn't, how is desire for pleasure wrong, insofar as the pleasure is achievable? And if you answer ; because no pleasure is worth suffering, and there is always some amount of suffering caused by desire, I asked you why that is and this is your answer :
>because that is what the Buddha taught
>Yes the buddha taught that the end of suffering is preferable to suffering
It's a dumb answer, where you can't speak with your own tongue (or write with your own fingers). You once again ignore the possibility of the Buddha and the Buddhist enlightened masters being wrong, having broken their mind, misinterpreting things, etc., and don't take into account the diversity of 'enlightened' masters teaching contradictory things in other religions with, you admitted it yourself, just as much credibility. You need your own inquistive mind to separate the wheat from the chaff ; to provide to yourself (and thus others when they ask) good motives and reasons.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 16:16:57 2020 No.16397785
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>>16397736
>You say "you lack an understanding of Buddhism and claim its other people's fault you don't get a buddhist concept". I think it implies
>it implies
no

>It is a logical contradiction. You say a Buddha neither is nor isn't. How can that even be understood?
you just lack an understanding of buddhism

>I'm dealing with it by thinking it's a stupid thing. I think that's pretty fair.
massive cope

>I have no idea where you are going with this. The vast majority of atheists don't believe in an afterlife. I don't see how this is up for debate. Do I need to find you stats or something?
failed bait and switch or maybe you just don't know how to have an honest discussion
I said atheists have no concept of after death
you said
"Yes they do ; nothingness, ceasing to exist, ceasing to have experiences"
now you're saying
>atheists don't believe in an afterlife
which is it

>You said ending all suffering is done in Nirvana, and in Nirvana, you cease existing. I've said multiple times before that I took it as implying you no longer have experiences. How can you have experiences if you don't exist?
what makes you think you have experiences in nirvana

>It's a dumb answer, where you can't speak with your own tongue
you just don't like it :^)

>You once again ignore the possibility of the Buddha and the Buddhist enlightened masters being wrong, having broken their mind, misinterpreting things,
what is the point in that?

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 16:25:30 2020 No.16397843

>>16397785
>no
>you just lack an understanding of buddhism
So can the Buddha being and non-being simulatenously be understood without reaching Buddhahood oneself, or can't it? Do you understand it, can you defend it?
>massive cope
You admit you have no reason to think what you think, that's beyond coping & in the realm of stupidty.
>I said atheists have no concept of after death, you said "Yes they do ; nothingness, ceasing to exist, ceasing to have experiences", now you're saying "atheists don't believe in an afterlife"
>which is it
They think after death, there is no afterlife... They (most of the time) think after death, there is nothingness, etc. Why are you so confused by that?
>what makes you think you have experiences in nirvana
From you saying the following :
>I said ending all suffering is pretty desirable. you said: Not if it requires you to stop having any kind of experience
to which i replied with
>and where do you get this from? your feelings?
If you were rather implying that ending all suffering is desirable even if all experiences end, well I'm asking you again, by what criteria. How do you know that? It goes against what humans instinctively desire (they desire having pleasant experiences, not just an end to suffering), so you have to show why they're wrong, since Nirvana is supposedly the true goal for all conscious beings.
>you just don't like it :^)
Yes I don't, it makes any conversation useless. It means you have no good reason for believing something.
>what is the point in that?
It might be true, you have provided no reason to think it wasn't, and if it is, then everything you're doing and saying is worthless.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 16:27:13 2020 No.16397852 >>16397843 *From you saying the following : >I said ending all suffering is pretty desirable. you said: Not if it requires you to stop having any kind of experience >to which i replied with >and where do you get this from? your feelings?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 16:39:20 2020 No.16397917 Buddhism is obscurantist chink garbage. Christianity as a whole is superior.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 16:45:09 2020 No.16397951
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>>16397843
>So can the Buddha being and non-being simulatenously be understood without reaching Buddhahood oneself, or can't it? Do you understand it, can you defend it?
You're going to need to actually read a book that concept is too complex for a 4chan post

>You admit you have no reason to think what you think, that's beyond coping & in the realm of stupidty.
no im just laughing at you whine

>They think after death, there is no afterlife
Buddhists believe in rebirth

>If you were rather implying that ending all suffering is desirable even if all experiences end, well I'm asking you again, by what criteria. How do you know that? It goes against what humans instinctively desire (they desire having pleasant experiences, not just an end to suffering), so you have to show why they're wrong, since Nirvana is supposedly the true goal for all conscious beings.
I answered this already
the concept of nirvana isn't an instinct, however ending suffering is.

>It means you have no good reason for believing something
no it just means you don't like why I believe it

>It might be true, you have provided no reason to think it wasn't, and if it is, then everything you're doing and saying is worthless.
I don't really care though
Its like telling a Christian there might be no God, do you think they really care about the what ifs?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 16:59:05 2020 No.16398025 >>16393732 >Respects the beliefs of others Buddhists are some of the fiercest terrorists on the planet rn

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 17:05:46 2020 No.16398074 >>16395936 Buddha didn't teach shit He just believed that the actions of the previous generation had an effect on the next The portrayals of the Pali canon are completely ahistorical

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 17:08:26 2020 No.16398094 >>16396856 cricket noises

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 17:15:26 2020 No.16398141 Imagine having a religion based on something strictly inferior to a massage Heck, even the cardiac prayer is a better way to center in on esoteric concepts so far as meditation allows it

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 17:22:05 2020 No.16398198 >>16394219 Can at least one buddhist in this thread please comment at all on this post?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 17:26:02 2020 No.16398231 >>16398198 I would if it was written in bad faith

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 17:32:29 2020 No.16398284 >>16394101 That's just buddhism without an end goal

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 17:48:46 2020 No.16398403 >>16398198 Buddhist modernism is just Stoicism. It has had all its metaphysics and supramundane concepts gutted so that it doesn't get embarassed in front of people wearing lululemon stretch pants when it says a woman needs to be reborn as a man.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 18:04:47 2020 No.16398511

>>16393706
Could someone explain vajrayana/tibetan buddhism to me? I understand theravada, mahayana, zen, pure land but I can't seem to get the most famous and esoteric. It just looks like a buch of schools who mixed old hindu practices and extreme belief in all sort of superstitions with a buddhist veneer. How come the mongolians and related ethnicities adopted it? Which branch of buddhism has the greatest possibility of becoming a major faith in the west?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 18:06:10 2020 No.16398523 File: 2.78 MB, 4788x3724, 1583549641681.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Posting this in case some anons want it

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 18:07:05 2020 No.16398531 >>16398511 When you mix superstition, your beliefs become much more powerful as they are now inherently connected with the physical world, which is what you primarily experience.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 18:07:44 2020 No.16398539 >>16398284 Do Buddhists really

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 18:11:06 2020 No.16398559

>>16393706
>that is at the same time consistent with modern science 500-1000 years
Why did all the founders of Quantum Mechanics like Shrodinger and Planck focus on Vedanta in their writings and why did they all talk about Consciousness as being fundamental and irreducible? There is a discontinuity between how /lit/ Buddhists interpret modern science like QM with how its founders interpreted it.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 18:28:29 2020 No.16398682

>>16398511
Tibet has several major schools of Buddhism. The dominant is Gelug, which the Dalai Lama is the head of. They are scholastics of the prasangika approach to Madhyamaka, which comes directly by way of Indian Mahayana Buddhism. Tibet was pagan prior to the conversion to Buddhism and so much of their iconography and deity belief is informed by that, along with cross-polination of tantric practices from medieval northeast India. The Mongols, at least the ones who didn't go far from their homeland, adopted Tibetan Buddhism because it was the nearest Buddhism, not unlike how Nestorian Christianity had made it to the Mongols being the nearest Christianity. In fact, the Mongols being Tibetan Buddhists, along with their Manchu neighbors, has had geopolitical consequences you may be familiar with (The PRC in part claims Tibet as integral part of China because of the Qing dynasty's influence over it; the Qing were Tibetan Buddhists). As for Buddhism being a major faith in the West, that would require some sort of sea change in what Western people believe in (currently a toss up between nothing and political Christianity, which is itself a kind of religious nothing as it is being used for strictly moral issues). Which variety of Buddhism would depend; Americans like Zen because of Japanese immigration while France would tend towards the Mahayana of Vietnam. Britain and Germany have a long relationship with Theravadin scholarship.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 18:30:19 2020 No.16398694 >>16398559 It's been trendy to read the Bhagavad Gita for 200 years, everyone from American transcendentalists to German idealists to Jewish atomic scientists gives it a big think.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 21:40:32 2020 No.16399731

>>16398511
Buddhism is a raft for dharma. As long as the raft gets you across the river, it's good. But this means that some rafts may be better in some ways, and some rafts may be worse in some ways. It depends upon the river. Buddhism can thus be modified to fit the conditions the people who practice it find themselves in. At a simple level, the monks of Hokkaido, Japan MUST dress and live differently than the monks of Southern Vietnam. They simply have to in order to not die. Mahayana, far more so than Theravada, utilizes this "the raft can be modified".

Vajrayana Buddhism is thus essentially a religion if treasure hunters. The kings of Tibet sent out treasure hunters to scour the world and find the quickest routes to enlightenment. Some of these routes are dangerous if done properly, so they need to be kept esoteric and secret. The "point" of Vajrayana is to acquire these secret treasures to create the quickest possible route to nirvana.

>>16398559
Vedanta, and many other Hindu philosophies, have many very easy analogues in the West. Dvaita and Bhedabheda are just Pajeet dualism, Advaita, Suddhadvaita, and Vishishtadvaita are just Pajeet neoplatonism, you don't REALLY have to give up any Western priors or systems to understand them, because they were ultimately inferior attempts at reaching Western ideas. These are obviously over simplifications, and do NOT do justice to these philosophies, but you see them getting made all the time on /lit/, so it's clearly a really easy mistake to make.

Buddhism, for contrast. was, and really still is, very poorly understood in the West. During the period between the death of Heraclitus and the birth of Post-Modernism and Process Philosophy, there's a stretch of several centuries where there just IS no analogue to Buddhism in the West. This meant that for a very long period of time, Westerners just had no fucking clue what Buddhism was. This is where you get "Buddhism is a nihilistic death cult" from, because the people repeating these memes are playing a game of telephone who genuinely had no fucking clue about what Buddhism entailed. It's telling that if you take any Western book on Buddhism written before the 60s, you'll just get a massive info-dump of organizations and rules and legalism, but very little about Sunyata, dependent origination, karma, the mind, etc.

So, why did they focus on these things? Because they were already thinking about them, and happened to find similar things elsewhere. If it wasn't Pajeets, they'd have done it with Arabs.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 21:51:19 2020 No.16399776 >>16393985 You have a strong opinion, being vegan is fine and not a big deal.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 21:52:30 2020 No.16399780 real Buddhism hasnt been tried yet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 21:55:03 2020 No.16399789 >>16393732 Moral relativism isn't a belief, it's a meta-belief, one that will allow your neighbors to absolutely erase you from the annals of history if you let it. Ask the Afghan Buddhists oh no wait they're all dead.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 21:56:42 2020 No.16399794 >>16393985 Good to see you're feeling better dr. Peterson.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 21:57:17 2020 No.16399796
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>>16399731
>>16398694
The explanation "they just happened to be already be biased to agree with it, or inclined because of history to be more aware of it than Buddhism" doesn't hold up, as western scholars had already been studying Hindusim and Buddhism for over a century by then; and Shrodinger in his books such as 'What is Life?' write pretty extensively about how he considers the teachings of Advaita Vedanta and what it says about consciousness to be in agreement with Quantum Mechanics; he writes about it from the perspective of someone who had thought deeply and carefully about how it aligned with QM, it's not just offhand observations and throwaway comments about a topic he didn't know well or was only agreeing with because of exterior circumstances

>western scholars couldn't understand Buddhism until western process philosophy recommenced in the 21st century
lol if you really are dumb enough to think this unironically

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 21:58:41 2020 No.16399802 >>16393954 Talk about opening a walnut with a sledgehammer.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 22:07:27 2020 No.16399847

>>16399796
Everything I've ever read on the subject has demonstrated that these men had no idea about anything Buddhist, like essentially all Westerners outside of an incredibly niche group of scholars, and that these physicists had very little actual understanding of Hindu philosophy and were just latching onto some fun foreign thing that vaguely reified their views.

>lol if you really are dumb enough to think this unironically
Demonstrate an analogue to Buddhism in the West in between the Pre-Socratics and Modernity, then.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 22:08:31 2020 No.16399852 >>16399789 All morality is relative, "universalists" just argue that morality is relative to God. Also no, that anon is wrong, the Quakers are one of the single least based religious groups on the planet.

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 22:34:47 2020 No.16399976

>>16399789
Buddhism isn't moral relativism at all. Buddhism only appears tolerant from an Abrahamic, exclusivist, monotheist perspective. The other poster is wrong too. Buddhism did not decline in Afghanistan because Buddhists didn't care about their beliefs but because 1. the local rulers either abandoned Buddhism under compulsion or were physically replaced following Islamic conquest and this trickled down, and 2. Islam has no tolerance for non-theistic religions and persecuted Buddhism throughout greater India and Central Asia (c.p. the Turkic replacement of Tocharians, the conquest of Bengal and destruction of Buddhist monasteries and universities).

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 22:37:56 2020 No.16399988 File: 56 KB, 1053x550, social.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16393985 >ethical and ritualistic ways to kill animals.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 22:39:09 2020 No.16399995 File: 32 KB, 499x281, NHNVQSTobuXASkS-800x450-noPad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16399988

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 22:42:35 2020 No.16400011 File: 10 KB, 327x154, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16399995 https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko

Anonymous Sat Sep 19 22:43:19 2020 No.16400015

>>16399976
Buddhist Eschatology involves Islam conquering the globe, with the only refuge from it being the Buddhist lands. Its from there that the global fight against Islam begins. Islam is literal unironic demon worship in the eyes of essentially all Buddhist thinkers.

He's doing the "buddhists have to be pacifists because hippies", unaware that Hercules is a protector of Buddhists and helps them go around beating up the immoral and wicked. Tolerance is not a virtue.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 22:46:34 2020 No.16400034 File: 41 KB, 640x480, b0cc618a2571b2df67dda080343fccd8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16400015 Based Indo-Greek kalachrakaposter

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 19 23:15:23 2020 No.16400145 >>16399988 >>16399995 >poster says "there's always been ethical and ritualistic ways to kill animals." >yeah well there are unethical and industrial ways to kill animals so you're WRONG

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 02:13:43 2020 No.16400995 >>16396073 Not him but any interest I had in Buddhism was killed by this. Absolute hypocritical garbage.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 02:47:45 2020 No.16401138 >>16400995 there are no rules for lay people, if you don't like it, become a hindu or a christian

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 02:53:54 2020 No.16401166 >>16399847 Platonism and Christianity.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:08:08 2020 No.16401224 For Christ's sake, if you are a Westerner do not practice Buddhism. You will end up miserable.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:08:51 2020 No.16401229 >>16393706 Why do they all live like animals

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:09:39 2020 No.16401235 >>16400995 It's about how it effects your mind. When you kill an animal it has a more profound effect on your subconscious than if you were to buy a burger at a drive through

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:13:44 2020 No.16401251

>>16393732
Did Quakers come to the whole "inward light" concept independently of Eastern transcendentalism? The more I look into religion, the more transcendentalist ontology starts to become a running theme. It's really interesting that it could be a kind of convergent philosophical evolution.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:14:51 2020 No.16401258 File: 415 KB, 564x796, Søren_Kierkegaard_(1813-1855)_-_(cropped).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16401251 no they read him

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:16:01 2020 No.16401264 >>16393706 Christ is superior to that flabby nihilist. Buddhism was btfo by both streams of the Hellenic-Christian synthesis.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:16:30 2020 No.16401269 >>16401258 This. Your obsession with 'Muh Eastern mysticism' is just you being a tourist and dare I say it you may have jerked of to Asa Akira one too many times.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:18:56 2020 No.16401280 >>16401251 >>16401258 >>16401269 Spirituality and intellectual productions are of eastern origin. End of story, there is no discussion.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:20:04 2020 No.16401285

>>16401258
I still can't resolve the convergence between Enlightenment transcendentalists and Eastern religious philosophy. I'm not trying to start an argument about which school of thought is the "best," per >>16401269, but the idea of a kind of fundamental reality is too complex and specific an idea for there to be so much overlap between cultures as a time where overlap wasn't facilitated particularly easily.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:25:16 2020 No.16401312

>>16401280

Funny. Because concepts such as 'eastern' are of western origin. When we talk about the East, it's east of, where exactly?

Ever wonder why Asia is so big and Europe so small? Because Europeans described the land they inhabited as Europe, Asia is just everything East of Europe.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:25:26 2020 No.16401314 >>16401280 That would be the simplest explanation, but a bit of a bummer. The Vedas do predate Abrahamic religion by thousands of years, so it would make sense. A little disappointing, but plausible.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:25:53 2020 No.16401315 >>16401312 This is a supremely stupid post.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:30:51 2020 No.16401342 >>16401314 abrahamic religions are eastern and a lot of western ones were/are developed from them. but i think it is interesting that the loci of sunrise (east) and sunset (west) are inverted with Christ.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:35:26 2020 No.16401369

>>16393732
Based, I want to believe that every monotheistic religion prays the same God and they all come from an ancient uniqum (or truth).
>>16393985
>Japan eats the most red meat
That's bullshit, they don't have enough land for cows. They have Kobe meat that's something really expensive and exclusive, they eat fish and vegetables. Not a vegan but I don't eat red meat, cows are meek animals and their breeding is one of the major causes of global warming (cow farts unironically), Amazon forest destruction (for pastures) and water consumption (1kg of red meat requires 10000l of water)

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:56:14 2020 No.16401465

>>16401369
>I want to believe that every monotheistic religion prays the same God
They do but every time someone starts a new monotheism they say not only is there one god but also one way of correctly believing in one god and then they give you a book to read about it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 03:57:50 2020 No.16401471 >>16394580 why not?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 04:01:16 2020 No.16401486 >>16401342 In a purely geographic (and eurocentric) sense, Abrahamic religions are 'eastern.' In common parlance 'eastern philosophy' is Indian, Chinese, and Japanese, ie various forms of Hinduism and Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Shinto, etc.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 04:05:36 2020 No.16401500 >>16401471 He got filtered by Nagarjuna

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 04:33:35 2020 No.16401583 >>16401500 elaborate

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 04:59:38 2020 No.16401655 >>16393706 >If you can't compete, reject the world!

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 05:04:37 2020 No.16401669 >>16401655 T. Has no idea about buddhism. The buddha was a prince,he was above competing. The point is that youre going to suffer no matter how succesful you are, competing is irrelevant

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 05:34:47 2020 No.16401755

>>16401669
I was being tongue-in-cheek to a degree, but I still stand by what I said. It aptly describes the motivations of a lot of people for joining major religions.
Maybe the Buddha was to weak to enjoy his princely life? Why is suffering dogma and not just a point of view?
I agree that living is ultimately suffering, but I wouldn't want to impose this view on anyone not receptive to it. Wanting to stop suffering by ceasing to exist is like throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 05:39:09 2020 No.16401765

>>16401669

>The buddha was a prince

Imagine thinking that archaic stories were actually about the people they are purported to be about. Whoever wrote the story used 'the prince' as a literary motif, to make a point. He could have told the same story about the son of a merchant, or a mayor, but that doesn't strike the same note as 'the prince'.
It's the same reason Raskolnikov is a murderer and not a petty thief, the same reason Christ is nailed to a cross and he doesn't stub his toe on the nightstand.
They're just stories bro, if you interpret it literally you're seriously missing the point.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 05:40:47 2020 No.16401769
File: 51 KB, 720x687, Scream.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>16401765
THE BUDDHA WAS LITERALLY BORN IN THE ROYAL CASTE, HIS BIRTH WAS FORETOLD AS SUCH AND IT IS HIGHLY RELEVANT TO THE PATH HE CHOSE TO WALK, AS IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO REACH ENLIGHTENMENT WHILE ALSO RULING IN THIS WORLD

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 05:45:47 2020 No.16401792 >>16401315 It's not though. Asia is a Greek word.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 06:05:35 2020 No.16401844

>>16401280

>intellectual productions

You have heard of this nifty thing called 'science' right? Not exactly an Eastern invention.

>inb4 muh ancient medicine
You know goddamned well that herbal tea and sucking a person's retina out through a straw aren't 'intellectual productions'

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 06:49:29 2020 No.16401980 >>16393732 Any religion that conforms to my atheist sensibilities is based and true, the post.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 07:06:11 2020 No.16402041

How about y'all niggaz read some Christian theology before talking utter nonsense like OP.

- Orthodox Study Bible (so you understand the OT and NT)
- On the Holy Spirit, by Saint Basil the Great
- On God and Christ, by Saint Gregory of Nazianzus
- On the Unity of Christ, by Saint Cyril of Alexandria
- On the Incarnation, Saint Athanasius

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 07:36:09 2020 No.16402135
File: 347 KB, 800x451, 1522989707753.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I did have a big binge of Buddhist literature and shit, but I really wish there was a Zen master near me I could study with. One of the things I concluded was that trying to understand it on an intellectual level was pretty fucking useless. I could sit down and recite ten billion sutras, but unless I actually experienced genuine moments of insight, it wouldn't avail to much.

What exactly is enlightenment, anyway? How do I know if I am actually enlightened? From what I read about Zen, tying myself into philosophical knots and seeking an answer only drives me further away from the Original Mind. I did have this moment when I was walking to the shops and I was suddenly keenly aware of my awareness. I had experienced something like that sometimes when I looked down at my own hand. Fucked if I can put it into words, but I just got this feeling of being completely aware of myself. Is that it?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 07:37:35 2020 No.16402138 You don't believe in anything

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 07:47:06 2020 No.16402167 >>16402135 Check out Zhaozhou

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 07:52:08 2020 No.16402184
File: 61 KB, 318x306, 1529464649726.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>16402167
>Zhaozhou took off one of his sandals, put it on top of his head and walked out without a word. Nanquan said, “If only he had been here, he could have saved that cat.”

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 07:55:19 2020 No.16402195

>>16393706
My experience with Buddhists has been terrible. Either wealthy cunts who yap about how materialism is bad while living in an upper class apartment, or people who launch into rants about other religions mainly Christianity and how inferior they are. And then say you must renounce your ego.
TL;DR all Buddhists I met were giant hypocrites.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 08:16:17 2020 No.16402272

>>16402135
>doesn't mention meditation at all
I don't want to assume, but your meditative practice is crucial. The state of pure observation you can reach will evidence experientially some of the weightier concepts you'll read about. People have been trying to fit the transcendental experience into words for thousands and thousands of years, and nobody's really succeeded yet. It's something too big for words. A decent analogy would be if you were trying to tell a friend a story about something that just happened to you. You can tell him the events, you can give abstract observations about your emotional experiences during it, a catalog of your thoughts, etc. What you could never do with words alone is to transpose your experience in full fidelity. No matter how well you tell the story, you can never simply take your experience and plant it into his brain. The experience of the Godhead is similar to this. Although it's the pure observation of the fundamental reality, that reality is there only to be experienced, because the only component capable of interacting with it is purely observational. We're just not wired to be able to talk about it, or to hear it from another. The phenomenal wall between noumenal self and noumenal other is too tall and too firmly reinforced to allow them to ever really meet outside the transcendent meditative middle ground: the Godhead.

tl;dr fucking meditate

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 08:21:54 2020 No.16402294 >>16402195 This so much. Either these or Asians who couldn't give two shits but do it out of respect for their parents.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 08:23:38 2020 No.16402302 >>16401369 It's actually cow burps... Strange, eh?

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 09:08:22 2020 No.16402460

>>16396118
>>16396143
>>16396210
>>16396252
>>16396407
>>16396465
>>16396509
>>16396551
>>16396703
>>16396851
>>16397015
>>16397105
>>16397195
>>16397256
>>16397375
>>16397431
>>16397509
>>16397589
>>16397658
>>16397736
>>16397785
>>16397843
What is wrong with you two?

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 09:26:40 2020 No.16402534

>>16401166
Platonic metaphysics is about as far as you can get from Buddhist metaphysics, and Christian metaphysics are similarly quite distant. Both posit, and indeed require, the existence of Selfs.

>>16401755
Nirvana is not "ceasing to exist".

>>16400995
Eating meat that was killed for you still has a karmic effect, so I would say that buying meat from the grocery store does in fact have a karmic effect. IF you picked fucking roadkill up and ate it, I'd say yeah, that's different. You could also make an argument that carnivory breaks the Right Livelihood and Right Action parts of the Noble Eightfold Path, however, and as such is wholely something you just ditch as a means of minimizing harm to living beings, and to eliminating your attachment to worldly things.

There is such an idea as "committing a bad action to stop a worse one", however. There's also absolutely no prohibition on violence, so the whole "le buddhism is le nihilism because le no self defense xD" reddit meme is just flat out wrong, because there is no prohibition on severely beating someone up, or defending yourself, or even killing yourself in self defense (that last point can be a problem for some groups of monks, however).

>>16401138
Five Precepts, Noble Eightfold Path. Buddha won't come down and punish you like Yahweh will, but you'll still spend time in hell for rape or what not. "No rules" for the laity is just wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 09:40:45 2020 No.16402606 >>16402534 >Eating meat that was killed for you still has a karmic effect No. Buddha ate meat up until his final nibbana.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 09:48:34 2020 No.16402649

>>16402606
The Buddha was a Buddha, which makes him special. All actions for non-Enlightened beings have karmic effects. You can't have "zero karmic" actions unless you're Enlightened.

Monks are not allowed to eat meat that was killed explicitly for them because this is just the monk killing the animal by proxy, which is Talmudic wizadry that Buddhist legal and ethical theories are designed from the ground up to prevent. Killing is bad, don't do it. You're not supposed to create elaborate mental gymnatics to justify it, you're supposed to not fucking do it.

Can a monk eat meat if they're given it while going for alms, without requesting it, without actively seeking it out? Yes. The Buddha was given, for no payment, without asking, meat dishes by laymen who slaughtered animals NOT for the explicit purpose of feeding the Buddha. That's fine. It would be very much not fine if the Buddha went around asking for ham sandwiches, which is why he did not do it (we could argue about if a Buddha could do such a thing and not cause karmic problems, but that's a different topic and isn't really pertinent, because the Buddha didn't do it, and monks aren't supposed to it, so who cares).

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 09:55:10 2020 No.16402681 >>16402460 he doesn't understand buddha and thinks it should accommodate his ignorance

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 09:58:36 2020 No.16402696

>>16393706
Buddhism won’t fix any of your problems. It can leave you with delusions that give you more problems, such as the belief that you need to attain enlightenment. I would see the real proof Buddhism is shit is talking to any Buddhist. I think you could easily argue meditation rots your brain and dulls you. Let’s stop pretending the Buddhist ideology is any different than other ideologies... empty promises

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 10:19:01 2020 No.16402807

>>16393985
>>16395234
Sciencetards and evolutiontards are fucking idiots. Diet is the simplest thing to understand yet you make it so complicated. The “human body” was created to survive in a wide variety of diets. Many people eat meat and are healthy. Many don’t eat meat and are healthy. What you need to survive is water, salt, some fat and calories. Everything past that is 100% bullshit made by nutritionists who have no idea what they are doing, or are purposely trying to sell shit. Name me another animal that is so obsessed and crazy over dietary concerns. You are all schizophrenics who are so scared about everything that you turned something as basic as diet into this giant cluster fuck of beliefs. But muh studies, muh science! And again all I can say is you’re so entrenched in your beliefs that you have complicated something that animals give no thought, because you think you understand the body because you have placed your faith in nutritionists and scientists. Just research historical diets for 30 minutes and you will see that humans have thrived on a wide variety of diets. Eat what you want to, eat what you crave. Eating for pleasure will make you fat obviously, which I assume most posters here are given the diet obsession.

Also while I am at it. Weightlifting and exercise does not make you healthier. Your body doesn’t need to do any more work than is necessary to survive. If you WANT to workout to increase the size of your muscles, you can achieve this. But to think it’s going to make you live longer or be healthier is again, delusion. Brown rice is bullshit. Whole wheat bread is bullshit. Probiotics is bullshit. Meat containing magical nutrients you need to survive is bullshit. Vegetables being healthy is the BIGGEST BULLSHIT. If you are fat as fuck then maybe you should eat a lot of vegetables because you are so used to stuffing your stomach, but people are so dumb that they eat things that they don’t like and that don’t taste good because they have been tricked into believing by a bunch of clueless idiots in lab coats that having certain minerals in them makes them healthy.

Most animals eat very consistent and unvaried diets. Variety diets are for pleasure, I am not saying this is wrong to eat but simply being real that they aren’t required. You can eat white rice and eggs everyday for the rest of your life and you will get no health problems from it. Fat and calories is all you need. But go eat your broccoli and brown rice because the bodybuilder is doing it (his muscles have nothing to do with his diet other than calories/energy and muscle stiumlation) WE LOOKED AT THE DATA

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 10:28:20 2020 No.16402867 >>16402534 So "refutes" all other religions actually means "argues dishonestly and strawmans other religions" Thank you clarifying you hack

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:02:21 2020 No.16403079

>>16402649
>Monks are not allowed to eat meat that was killed explicitly for them
Well yes, that is what alms are for. You don't ask for them, you only receive and hope its edible. That means when a wealthy wordling decides to slaughter a calf and prepare the best veal in town for that 1 Monk's blessing/guidance, he is free to consume it without developing karma. This isn't killing by proxy, the Monk had no intention to kill for food.

>The Buddha was a Buddha, which makes him special
The Buddha was just an arahant, one of many innumerable arahants, something that existed before him (according to the Buddha himself). There was no special treatment for him when it came to alms giving or otherwise. Also enlightened monks still have karma in their first cycle, after a number of cycles they cease to accumulate karma.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:09:33 2020 No.16403118

>>16402867
Take a breather and write out a coherent post.

>>16403079
My point is that just saying "the Buddha ate meat" without clarifying the specific circumstances and the specific rules and views regarding the eating of meat is unhelpful. It makes the Buddha sound like a hypocrite walking around not letting people eat pork but dining on fine veal or whatever, when his actions are totally in line with the doctrine he taught. Eating meat is fine as long as the monk isn't the one doing the killing, and the monk isn't just doing the killing by proxy.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:25:57 2020 No.16403207

>>16403118
Yes I think we are in agreement, basically as long as monks don't go "hey bro, I wouldn't mind some of that savory 'goodness' if you know what I mean", they are free to eat whatever they get since alms giving wouldn't (and shouldn't) incentivize mass slaughter of animals just for the consumption of a class of people and really monks should be detached from food itself and see it simply as nourishment just as the Buddha did when he nearly died fasting. Whatever the lay person decides as the dish served for them falls on him and so does the subsequent Karmic accumulation, but obviously he should be mindful of the precepts that Buddhist monks uphold when it comes to killing and the sentiment it entails for them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:27:26 2020 No.16403217 >>16403118 >Take a breather and write out a coherent post. Actually he is right. Buddhists are the jews of asia.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:27:55 2020 No.16403218 >>16403217 cringe...

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:36:02 2020 No.16403261

>>16402534
>Nirvana is not "ceasing to exist".
Yes it is.

The fundamental contradiction of buddhism:
>Life is suffering so we must not be alive in order to find eternal bliss (from now on referred to as Heaven for a shorthand, and because fuck using shitty buddhist terms you nigger)
>Heaven is helping others not to be alive
>Heaven is being alive and fighting to make others realize that they shouldn't want to be alive.
>Therefore being alive and not being alive are one.

The buddhist gives up his life and happiness, denies all his desire based upon the contradictory mess that is his philosophy, all due to a cowardly risk averse attitude characteristic of the female and the homosexual. Too afraid from pain to suffer for happiness. Too soft to even dream of achieving something glorious. Buddhism is the religion of the cucked and the mediocre, truly the religion of the bugmen who can't conceive of any struggle as worthwhile. All religions have the balls to say: Yes suffering exists and that's okay. Buddhism is just the opposite, the eunuch of religions.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:37:04 2020 No.16403267 >>16403218 no, actually that was based and very much redpilled if I may say so

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:38:59 2020 No.16403278 File: 8 KB, 194x259, 1591247500920.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >no, actually that was based and very much redpilled if I may say so

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:40:42 2020 No.16403286

>>16403261
>Life is suffering so we must not be alive in order to find eternal bliss
Wrong. Buddhists specifically say that this world is the best possible world to achieve Nirvana, which isn't oblivion.

>The buddhist gives up his life and happiness, denies all his desire based upon the contradictory mess that is his philosophy, all due to a cowardly risk averse attitude characteristic of the female and the homosexual. Too afraid from pain to suffer for happiness. Too soft to even dream of achieving something glorious. Buddhism is the religion of the cucked and the mediocre, truly the religion of the bugmen who can't conceive of any struggle as worthwhile. All religions have the balls to say: Yes suffering exists and that's okay. Buddhism is just the opposite, the eunuch of religions.
That is probably the gayest thing I've read.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:41:53 2020 No.16403291 File: 202 KB, 606x731, 1587512999816.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why is Buddhism so based?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:45:38 2020 No.16403315 >>16403291 Dharmic religions as a whole are inherently Aryan in nature and hard for judeo minded simpletons to fathom

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:46:33 2020 No.16403320

>>16403286
>Buddhists specifically say that this world is the best possible world to achieve Nirvana, which isn't oblivion.

See >>16403261
>Heaven is helping others not to be alive
Your verbal trickery fools no-one butthist, your religion considers not being alive to be blissful.

>gay
You surely talk about your pedo monks imitating sexacts with minors, right? Buddhists are scum. Face the reality of your shitty philosophy.

>>16403278
this, but unironically

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 11:47:34 2020 No.16403327 >>16403315 >putting your penis between the thighs of a 12 year old boy and imitating sexual acts as initiation is inherently aryan

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 12:29:12 2020 No.16403524 >>16402534 I obviously am implying their similarity with original Buddhism. Phenomena for them are dust.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 12:29:42 2020 No.16403525

>>16403217
That would be the Jains.

>>16403261
You posted this earlier, and it was dumb then and it is dumb now. The First Noble Truth, "nidham dukkam", means "Dukkha is". "Life is suffering [among other things]" is a poor translation. Firstly, it gives morons like you the wrong idea. Secondly, "life" is just life. Dukkha, the pain caused by impermanence, is something that all beings are subjected to. Dukkha is not "torture", it's "any unpleasantness caused by impermanence". It's just as much being sad on Sunday because tomorrow is Monday as it is falling in a ditch and breaking your leg.

So, right off the bat, your first point is wrong because no, life is not suffering. Secondly, it's wrong because "not being alive" is something you can't be. If you die, you'll just get reborn, so death would do nothing. Buddhism being a "suicide cult" would be totally pointless. Thirdly, nirvana isn't death, it's not extinction, it's not annihilation. Categorically. Buddhist philosophy rejects the idea that you can ever stop existing, or that you can "become nothing". Nothing isn't. This means that your second point is moot, your third point is just flat out stupid, and your fourth point is as dumb as you are.

Classic case of the "I have no idea what I'm talking about, but think my opinion matters" problem.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 12:42:29 2020 No.16403583 >>16402135 There hasn’t been a zen master alive for like 1200 years. Do not waste your time on this, especially if you are heavily indoctrinated in Western culture.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 12:44:23 2020 No.16403589
File: 74 KB, 750x1000, s-l1000.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>16403261
Too afraid from pain to suffer for happiness. Too soft to even dream of achieving something glorious.
Yeah what could be more glorious than slavishly chasing dopamine until we die and get recycled like all matter to do it all over again. Trap me in limbo daddy

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 12:47:32 2020 No.16403604 >>16398025 How can it be terrorism if the Rohingya aren't people?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 15:52:05 2020 No.16404614 >>16403583 prove it

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 15:54:02 2020 No.16404631 >>16403589 >happiness is just dopamine >love is just chemicals in your brain Buddhism is literally just materialistic atheism with extra steps.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 15:59:31 2020 No.16404657 >>16404631 >materialistic atheism with extra steps It's not materialism to say that phenomena are unreal, quite the opposite. As for atheism, a creator god is denied, but metaphysics carries on without him

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:01:52 2020 No.16404668

>>16402135
Enlightenment is this carrot on the stick to keep you drawn in. As long as you believe there is this secret personal gnosis awaiting you, you can fool yourself into giving up your values.

The best part about all this is that you don't even need any of this bullshit, you can literally just live your happy life and meditate everyday to reflect upon your daily actions without the buddhist demand to give up desires and happiness. Of course the moment you realize that fulfilling your desires actually is a source of happiness for you, Buddhism is destroyed so they have to gatekeep to keep their influence over you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:03:14 2020 No.16404677 >>16404657 >the immaterial is not real >somehow this isn't materialism buddhist pilpul at its finest

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:10:00 2020 No.16404715

>>16404631
>happiness is just dopamine
>love is just chemicals in your brain
Yes, this is what you, the nihilist, believe. The fact that you posted >>16403261 is a demonstration that you are a nihilistic materialist.

Buddhists do not believe this.

>>16404668
Not really. At all, in fact. The paradox of having to stop wanting to stop wanting is Buddhism 101. You should do some reading on this topic, it's pretty clear you're unfamiliar.

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:11:58 2020 No.16404723

>>16404677
Phenomena are not known as they really are owing to distortions of sense data and consciousness. Noumena we cannot know directly either. So your material/immaterial distinction is frivilous since in neither case do we have knowledge that we can be certain of with which to assert material or 'immaterial'

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:15:36 2020 No.16404747

>>16404715
>Yes, this is what you, the nihilist, believe
Lmao look at this shitty buddhist cope. Blaming their own shit at people who quite literally deny it.
You are the nihilist butthist, see >>16403589
>Yeah what could be more glorious than slavishly chasing dopamine
You literally identified happiness with a fucking hormone. You are such a shitty liar buddhist, like all your kind you are weak.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:15:54 2020 No.16404748 >ctrl + f shentong >0 results yeah no wonder none understands what buddhism is

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:17:48 2020 No.16404764 >>16404723 >we cant know anything >somehow we can know that we can't know anything The buddhist contradicting itself once again. You keep stepping into these shitty traps you are setting for yourself. You are not fooling anyone.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:19:00 2020 No.16404769 >>16404715 >reee you are a nihilistic materialist because you pointed out the glaring logical inconsistency in my anime philosophy

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:21:16 2020 No.16404784 >>16404614 The buck stops in the first century bro. Dogen ripped off and plagiarized the actual Chan masters. Zen Buddhism is not Zen.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:22:22 2020 No.16404789 >>16404784 based lmao

BingoSalamingoTheClown !!d4eGCvV35z0 Sun Sep 20 16:24:53 2020 No.16404804

>>16393745
Freedom is the wing of the Soul, the semblant of Heaven. If "dogmatic" is "based" welcome to based Liberal Democracy, where old ladies grasp at pearl over you calling a monkey-faced menial born monkeyman exactly where he is - a nigger.

Isn't Sin BASED? Isn't Hell BASED? Isn't breaking at the wheel over trivialities BASED? Where is your based now? In whose hands is Hell today? Let me tell you what is truly BASTE:
>Eden's locked gates the Thief has opened wide,
>By putting in the key, "Keep me, in your mind."
>Remember me

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:31:09 2020 No.16404851 >>16404764 >>16404769 >doesn't get what phenomena and noumena mean So what philosophy DO you ascribe to, then? You don't understand Western philosophy, you don't understand Buddhist philosophy. So, what DO you believe in?

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:31:15 2020 No.16404854

>>16404764
Do you have an argument here or what? There's no gotcha for someone who says they know they don't know. Are you telling me then you have 100% confidence in your perception of the world being a mirror of what the world actually is in-itself? This isn't even something specific to Buddhism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:36:29 2020 No.16404889 Isn’t the reality tho that none of you incels will never understand the true power of the CHAD Buddhist monk. So don’t talk shit on something you don’t even know.

>>	Roshi Sun Sep 20 16:49:55 2020 No.16404973 >>16393732 >Buddhism >comprehensive metaphysical beliefs You got it fucked up.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 16:57:16 2020 No.16405022 >>16404889 All are buddha, so even the most seething cope trsnny incel, can achieve enlightenment.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 18:06:53 2020 No.16405561 >>16403525 So what then is Nirvana of it's not non-existence?

Anonymous Sun Sep 20 19:18:49 2020 No.16406038

What Nirvana IS is impossible to describe with our vocabulary.

The Buddha taught a way how to get there but never really said what it was. Samsara ends, but What exactly happens after nirvana is an “unanswerable question” in Buddhism. We’ll have to figure it out ourselves I guess anon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 20 19:19:53 2020 No.16406048 >>16405561 Unanswerable Question

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