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/lit/ - Literature


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16346522 No.16346522 [Reply] [Original]

Best language for literature?

>> No.16346528

>>16346522
Artificial languages.

>> No.16346537

Pinche yankee.

>> No.16346546
File: 116 KB, 756x1084, carl_jung-glasses.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16346546

>>16346522
The language you were raised with

>> No.16346548

>>16346522
Python or Java

>> No.16346558

spanish no question about it

>> No.16346600

>>16346522
ASL

>> No.16346625

>>16346522
French

>> No.16346626

>>16346548
So you're gay or a boomer

>> No.16346729

>>16346522
French and English

>> No.16348119

>>16346522
it doesn't matter, but books will always be the best when read in their original tongue.

>> No.16348540

>>16346522
Latin

>> No.16348545

>>16346522
Esperanto

>> No.16348556

English because it’s the language with which you can access the most literature. Based englishchads get everything translated and catered to us like the diaper shitting retards we are.
I am learning french though so I can eventually read the great french-speaking authors in their own tongue.

>> No.16348687
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16348687

>>16348556
this is me!

>> No.16348774

>>16346522
Spanish, unironically

>> No.16348870

English is the best language.

>> No.16349020

Sanskrit

>> No.16349028

>>16346522
binary.

>> No.16349088

>>16348774
El idioma español es tan complejo y rico que muchos hablantes nativos (generalmente latinoamericanos) son propensos a cometer varios errores gramaticales sin darse cuenta. No me refiero a simples errores ortograficos/ortotipograficos, sino a errores de sintaxis y conjugación (el mal uso de las formas telicas y atelicas es un buen ejemplo de esto). Es algo triste, pues aparte de los escasos hablantes nativos que pueden usar este bello idioma sin cometer varios errores, tambien hay muy pocos hispanohablantes interesados en la creación literaria "seria" o con animos de expandir fronteras y dejar en alto el idioma. El panorama indica que faltan algunas decadas mas para volver a tener nombres con bibliografias tan prestigiosas como Ernesto Sabato, Mario Vargas Llosa, Juan Carlos Onetti o Jorge Luis Borges.

Algo ironico: no se como poner tildes en este teclado de mierda, por lo que me disculpo por los errores.

>> No.16349098
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16349098

>>16346625

>> No.16349108

>>16346522
French

>> No.16349121

>>16348556
That’s like saying MacDonald’s is the best food cause you can get it anywhere

>> No.16349207

>>16349121
kek, eternal burgers BTFOd

>> No.16349247

I want to improve my ability in other languages. I have an elementary grasp of German and Korean.
What are some good books to read in the original language?
Other euro languages like Spanish/Italian/French which are relatively easy to pick up are good too.

>> No.16349253

>>16349121
maximum kek

>> No.16349267

>>16348556
>I am learning french though so I can eventually read the great french-speaking authors in their own tongue.
>not learning french BY reading the great french authors in their own tongue
Combine many techniques together Anon but total immersion is the best thing you can do. Just read through even if you don't understand every word in the sentence. Try to limit yourself to only checking words every so often.

>> No.16349288

>>16346528
>he does not read Infinite Jest in binary
Why even live anon?

>> No.16349292
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16349292

>>16349288
Binary isn't a language of itself though, it's just a coding for letters. It's no more a language than Elian script is.

>> No.16349304

>>16349267
t. inputmethodchad

>> No.16349314

>>16349088
basado

>> No.16349324

>>16349267
What great works of French literature do you anons recommend? I am currently enrolled in an intensive French course as the beginning of my studies in a grande école. It sucks ass to only read didactic material. Yesterday I read an Asterix comic, but what I really want is literature.

I don't know French literature except for Sartre and Camus, which both suck. What is more engaging?

>> No.16349354

>>16349267
what do I do if I don't understand 90% of the vocabulary? I'm studying German and my vocab isn't large enough for me to read yet. However, reading low-level stuff doesn't seem to work,

>> No.16349462

English by far. No prose writer can match the likes of Joyce, Shakespeare or Nabokov alone

>> No.16349464

>>16349354
Use anki (or other SRS software) to build up your vocabulary. Keep in mind that this is just memorising the words/phrases, you have to actually use it (reading/listening/talking/writing) to fully integrate it into being able to understand quickly and in-context with your subconscious.
My biggest issue was spending too long on anki and now I have a huge vocabulary of Korean words I can barely string together into a coherent sentence (or comprehend when spoken/read at full pace).

>> No.16349477

>>16349324
Maupassant

>> No.16349499

>>16346548
Yuck a bugman on /lit/. Go away.

>> No.16349562
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16349562

>>16346548
>Python or Java

>> No.16349580

>>16349292
Thanks anon, learned something new today.

>> No.16349584

>>16346548
gross

>> No.16349601

>>16346522
English and French. Latin is the most beautiful language though.

>> No.16349736

French & English, closely followed by Spanish

>> No.16349939
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16349939

>>16346546

>> No.16349948

>>16346522
my mother tongue

>> No.16350018
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16350018

Latin

>> No.16350036

>>16350018
/filum

>> No.16350124

>>16349121
The double cheese burger is the most calorific food for the lowest cost in all of human history. 99.9% of your ancestors would agree that McDonalds is the best food.

>> No.16350155
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16350155

>>16350124

>> No.16350184

>>16350155
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-is-cheapest-and-most-nutritious-food-in-human-history.html

No.

>> No.16350309

>>16346625
basé

>> No.16350319

>>16350184
What a nonsense. Thanks for reminding me why I don't read news.

>> No.16350391

English and French

>> No.16350442

>>16350184
>>16350124
I'm getting paywalled and can't be fucked trying to bypass but is it particular cheap in other countries? Here it's not on the loose change menu so it doesn't work out very effective in terms of kj/$.
Also are they only considering prepared foods? Because if you're purely looking for cheap fuel something like bulk lentils would blow a burger out of the water.

>> No.16350663

>>16346522
German and Russian are worst languages for literature. German is good for science, but Russian is just ugly, it is a mediocre language at best of times, not really suited for anything.

>> No.16350672

>one chance at life
>native dutch

>> No.16350674

>>16350672
my condolences

>> No.16350703

>>16350672
>native dutch
that only means you already posses retard tier English skills, spend another year studying english you will speak it better than most americans and many brits.

>> No.16350745

>>16346522
Georgian

>> No.16351117

>>16349088
>tambien hay muy pocos hispanohablantes interesados en la creación literaria "seria"
porque nadie lee una mierda en español

>> No.16351339

>>16349324
Céline
Houellebecq
Beckett
Stendhal

>> No.16351343

tfw you are already french

>> No.16351384

>>16346522
I agree mainly because i like how german and russian sound. What about spanish though? I don't have any opinions about it,just wondering.

>> No.16351386
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16351386

>>16349121

basato e rottopillulato

>> No.16351422

>>16346522
A huge advantage german has, is it's big and precise vocabulary. German is one of the best languages to translate into for that reason.
Compare the literary quality of japanese texts into german to the quality of japanese texts into english, for example. It is not even close.
Even some of shakespeare's works are better in german, especially the ones translated by Schlegel.
I am not very familiar with russian, but some, if not THE best novels ever have been written in russian, and that is rarely a coincidence.

>> No.16351438

>>16346522
>best two languages
>not latin and greek
Do classiclet midwits really?

>> No.16351464

>>16346522
Morse

>> No.16351465

Your mother tongue.
Bonus if born into Romance languages because they share so much.

>> No.16351473

>>16346522
>Russian
Russia was a cultureless mongoloid rapebaby until the mid 19th century (actually until the 18th century but in literary terms it remained cultureless until the mid 19th century), then it was a cultureful French-german rapebaby between the mid 19th century and the October revolution. That’s such a short timespan, such a short burst of creativity that you can’t really consider roosia as a serious contender for languages such as English, German or French.

>> No.16351506

>>16351473 you've missed the point of the thread. this isn't about existing russian literature, it's about how good the actual language is. for example, german and russian are notable for compounding words which is better than reaching back to the 18th century to find "the perfect word" in english.

>> No.16351635

>>16349088
everything interesting and essential is already written.

>> No.16351638

>>16350663
Jesus speaks russian. The most spiritual language. Only german can compete with it.

>> No.16351734

>>16346522
GERMAN AND GREEK YOU RETARD

>> No.16351774

>Italian not even mentioned
your loss, niggers

>> No.16351929

>>16348556
French and English have been mongrelized beyond words. Basic strucure makes it almost impossible to translate decent poetry into either of them. You're better of reading the Iliad in Albanian than English

>> No.16352032

>>16349324
Zola is surprisingly easy to read.

>> No.16352056

only options are Latin, Greek, and Italian. Everything else is cope

>> No.16352091

>>16351422
>advantage
>big and precise vocabulary
that's a weakness.
no one wants to read your ausgehetdaruberhineinetet fucking mud speak.

>> No.16352161

>>16351506
>this isn't about existing russian literature, it's about how good the actual language is.
Ah, then obviously

English > French > Russian > German

>> No.16352421

>>16346522
Spanish, I tried to read in English and it's so unpleasant

>> No.16352429

>>16351422
>>16351422
Sapir-Whorf erryday

>> No.16352887

>>16351929
>English
>65% foreign vocabulary
>Albanian
>90% foreign vocabulary
Yeah good idea anon

>> No.16353019

Whenever an anon says Spanish or Italian I'm confused.
French, Russian, German I understand, but these two I don't "get"... It's just a feeling.
Consider me completely ignorant, will someone educate me or profess the quality of these languages

>> No.16353038

>>16350124
Yeah, most people throughout human history would literally cum if they sunk their teeth into a salty, greasy hot McDouble.

>> No.16353048

>>16349292
When my mom found my Japanese study notebook she thought I was learning shorthand...

>> No.16353064

>>16353019
one huge plus is that they don't have to give make a gender distinction for every fucking thing.
there's still two forms, so they are inherently inferior, but at least they're on the right track.

>> No.16353080

>>16346548
>Java
Fuck off, Rakesh

>> No.16353357

>>16352091
You got filtered hard, brainlet. It's one of the most powerful things.

>> No.16353764

>>16353357
german poets a shit, and thats because of the faultiness of the language.

>> No.16353829

>>16353764
Your mother is shit.

>> No.16353876

>>16353829
sorry kartoffel, I can't hear you through the gutteral sounds of a language with only a handfull of phoneme.

>> No.16353903
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16353903

>>16353829
even your dipthongs are retarded, and there's nothing you can do about it.

>> No.16353922
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16353922

>>16353876
Is my language too hard for you pea-brain? Should I break it down to your burger level?

>> No.16353934

>>16353903
Your mother is retarded.
Our diphtongs are good as they are, manage to filter plebs like nothing else.

>> No.16353975
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16353975

>>16353922
yeah, please explain why separable verbs are a good thing, especially when you use the same limited set of prepositions to alter the meaning of your nouns, verbs, and adjectives.

like seriously, does it ever get boring repeating yourself all the time?
die Die aus schmeist oder der auf den abendessen essen sieht aus auf
ich sehe was was du nicht siehst

feel free to explain why three gender forms are useful and girls are neutral while you're at

>> No.16353998

>>16350703
make that yourself but wise

>> No.16354012

english. i'm ESL. my english is far from perfect, regardless - my small country's contributions to the western canon are mostly negligible. english is the language of the empire, much as the gospels were written in greek rather than aramaic or hebrew, any relevant literature of today will be written in english, or translated into it, if it's deemed worthy, and tendentially translations to english will likely be better than translations into other languages simply because there's a bigger market for it.

>> No.16354019

>>16353975
>girls are neutral while you're at
and I don't mean that girls are simply "cute little maids" but why you fucks allow your language to have such ridiculous internal contradictions.
it's be one thing if it was like english, where it has been mutated to include all sorts ticks in the name of accessibility.

>> No.16354027

>>16353975
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

>> No.16354056

>>16351422
German is an etymologically rich language. I don’t understand why you think that’s useful for translation, however. Because you can simply loan translate the original meaning of the words? But a essential level of distortion between the two is still unavoidable.
>>16353975
Eh English and the Romance languages repeat themselves much much more than German. Articles aren’t declined by case and with English conjugation is so simple that you see the same modal verbs everywhere. ‘To’ is also used a lot. Nothing wrong with this but repetition of simple words is a common and important feature of any language.
Separable verbs are useful because you can give a new and semantically recognizable meaning to a basic verb. In German this is what Ableitung means. You have a root action and then can modify it in a definite number of ways.
Genders are relatively arbitrary but they can be interesting. They’re also useful to keep track of terms in academic writing, because they result in clearer pronouns

>> No.16354080

>>16354056
I think your arguments are thing, but thanks for at least trying.
It is better than what that fucking soviet rape baby can handle.

>> No.16354089

>>16350672
my condoms

>> No.16354105

>>16354089
fucking phoneposters man

>> No.16354147

>>16350124
There are many more important things to the measure of good food than calorie count

>> No.16354150

>>16353975
>yeah, please explain why separable verbs are a good thing, especially when you use the same limited set of prepositions to alter the meaning of your nouns, verbs, and adjectives.
They don't alter the meaning stupid, they are different modes of the same thing.
Take "going" for example, it's "gehen". You can say "go through", it's "durchgehen". This is relatively the same, just in a different order and written as one word. But now you can describe new modes without making up new words. You can just say "umgehen" and don't have to use a completely new word like "circumvent". There is a clear connection between circumvent and go through, why doesn't the both words highlight this? You don't even need to know German and you can see the clear connection between durchgehen and umgehen.
And the power of it is that you can make up new words by putting other prepositions in front of words to describe new ideas and concepts and everyone will know what you mean even though they heard the word for the first time.

>> No.16354219

>>16354019
>>16353975
>feel free to explain why three gender forms are useful and girls are neutral while you're at
Girls aren't neutral, children in general are. And the question is stupid because nobody said it's useful, it's just how the language developed. But it's not useless either, just harder to learn for foreigners.

>> No.16354261

>>16354219
>Girls aren't neutral, children in general are
DER BURSCH

>> No.16354282

>>16354261
Yeah I realized what he meant just after I posted it. I don't know why the girl is neutral, my theory is:
because the plural of Mädchen is also Mädchen and the article you use for plural forms is feminine, you would not know if "Die Mädchen" mean "the girl" or "the girls".

>> No.16354330

>>16354282
you're probably right, i think any diminutive form that ends in a -chen works that way
das bürschchen, die bürschchen (pl)

nice catch

>> No.16354334

>>16354150
>everyone will know what you mean even though

Zugehen, at-going. Angehen, to-going and on-going. Abgehen, off-going. Reingehen, in-going. Vergehen, mis-going?

Totally, bro.

An anglobong could maybe guess 1 of those. It makes sense to us because we grew up with it.

>> No.16354361

>>16354334
you're right, but then again any language has idiosyncracies like these.

>> No.16354413

>>16354282
The kraut doesn't even know his own fucking language.
Even after I put it literal fucking words.
Madchen comes from being a "little maid"
Like the baumchen, or huhnchen.
And all of these diminutive words are gender neutral, that's just the way.

You do prove a point though, your stupid fucking plurals.
Like in English we have goose and moose. Plurals geese and mooses. Mooses is regular because it comes from a native american word, but because we integrated your illogical language, we get geese.

>>16354150
dear god, you continue to out do yourself.
cherry pick a stupid word that fits your motivations.
Now do the same thing with all of the different words that come from the "lieg" etymology.
Or the really elaborate but imprecise metaphors you make up like nachdenken or rucksicht.
The ability to make up words on the fly from parts of other words is not a special ability to your language. Look at portmanteus, or words like hydroplane, or the ungodly branding excercises the we do in English.
The thing is that you guys do it worst because you have a limited amount of prepositional modifers to do it with.

>> No.16354479
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16354479

>>16348556
YEAH?
WHERE ARE MY DAMASCIUS TRANSLATIONS? HUH?
GUESS WHAT LANGUAGE HAS DAMASCIUS COMMENTARY ON PLATO'S PARMENIDES TRANSLATED?
NOT FUCKING ENGLISH
BUT FUCKING FRENCH

>> No.16354518

>>16349267
Fucking retard, immersion only works if you are talking to people. You need gestures, tonality, facial expressions and environmental information to contextualize and give meaning to the sounds. If you try to do this through literature you'll just get schizophrenia.

>> No.16354571

>>16354413
kek why are you so assblasted? You sound ridiculous because you try to judge a language by it's irregularities. Just don't learn German when it's too much for your brain.
>Now do the same thing with all of the different words that come from the "lieg" etymology.
Give some examples
>Or the really elaborate but imprecise metaphors you make up like nachdenken or rucksicht.
These are not imprecise, you're just stupid. And again, you can say nachdenken, umdenken, durchdenken, überdenken etc and you see everything has to do with thinking. While contemplate, rethink, reason out, reconsider etc. are completely different words. Your language is stupid, admit it.
And Rücksicht is something completely different, get your arguments straight.

>> No.16354598

Why are all the midwits clogging up this thread?

Inability to appreciate and enjoy German and its literature is not a sign of deficiency on the part of the language, but yourself.

>>16354518

Just look at this buffoon. The only thing you've shown here is that you can't handle reading in a foreign language.

>> No.16354658

>>16354334
>It makes sense to us because we grew up with it.
Even if we didn't grew up with it we would understand it. Say you want to say someone typed so hard on the keyboard that the keys broke. You could say
>Er hat die Tastatur zertippt
and it would be clear what you mean even though zertippen is not a real word.

>> No.16354660

>>16354571
>While contemplate, rethink, reason out, reconsider etc. are completely different words.
each of these words have more precise and careful associations and definitions. Allowing for more poetic and descriptive language than simply throwing out a basic verb and then appending it at the end of the sentence with the same prepositions you use for nouns and adjective.

checkmate muddle mouth

>> No.16354687

>>16354660
But you're wrong. It would be like saying that it's better to have a symbol for every word than an alphabet with letters you can dynamically arrange and make up new words with the same symbols instead of coming up with new symbols everytime you try to say something new.

>> No.16354714

>>16354687
that's not at all what it's like.

>> No.16354748

>>16354714
Except it is.
You said it yourself
>than simply throwing out a basic verb and then appending it at the end of the sentence with the same prepositions you use for nouns and adjective
We combine existing words, instead of making up new ones. That's why German is so good for philosophy because the language doesn't limit your thinking.

>> No.16354756
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16354756

>>16354598
>Inability to appreciate and enjoy German and its literature is not a sign of deficiency on the part of the language

>> No.16354760

>>16354748
>That's why German is so good for philosophy because the language doesn't limit your thinking.
imagine making this argument unironically

>> No.16354781
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16354781

>>16354760
Imagine having no arguments at all

>> No.16354796

>>16354760
imagine being german, not having read wittgenstein, and still making that argument.

>> No.16354827

>>16349088
Wtf. I can understand this.

>> No.16355071

Cмeшнo, бoльшинcтвo литepaтypы pyccкoй внимaния нe зacлyживaeт

>> No.16355095

I'm German and sometimes I read english translations of German works because they help me understand things better (in terms of philosophy and political theory). Is that weird?

>> No.16355098

>>16354827
Is that a bad thing?

>> No.16355099

>>16354660
>rethink, reconsider, reason out
What exactly do you think is happening in German with verb prefixes? It's exactly the same thing as when an English speaker distinguishes between 'think' and 'rethink', 'build' and 'build up', 'press' and 'impress'. The only difference is German has far far less contamination from Latinate sources (they loan translated many important classical words) and their prefixes function with clearer logic and regularity than in English. In the latter you get words like attract, exuberance, or hospital which are entirely divorced from their etymological roots for the ordinary speaker. But in German these would be translated as anziehen (to pull to/on), Uebermut (over-courage), Krankenhaus (sick house), which are all constructed out of smaller and everyday parts of speech recognizable even by unschooled children. I don't see how you could consider English to be a more "descriptive" language.
The thing is, you unironically could take a verb like "liegen" and then go through a series of changes to its meaning by examining the different prefixes that get added to it. Some words would be abstract, others would be subtle, but the core concept of 'to lie' would be there.

>> No.16355158

>>16355095
no, english has a wider palette of concepts because of all the languages they've assimilated

>> No.16355173
File: 35 KB, 596x515, English.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16355173

This is for all those people saying German is "precise"

>> No.16355194

>>16355099
>everyday parts of speech recognizable even by unschooled children
the more I learn the language and the more I come across the various dialects, it becomes clear to me that german was purpose built for this outcome.
that, and so you can talk with a mouth of potatoes without losing any clarity.

god bless martin luther for unifying the language a little bit, and good ole guthenberg for making you guys widely literate.

by the way, what did you guys refer to "letters" before guthenberg came around?

>> No.16355202

>>16355173
I have no idea what that means...
what is information density and rate?
were they the only languages studied?

>> No.16355233

>>16355099
Signs always relate to other signs differentially. It doesn't matter that there's a seemingly logical connection between them, because this connection itself is differential.

>> No.16355265

Serbo-Croatian
Anyone saying anything else is just simply wrong

>> No.16355268

>>16355202
It's pretty self-explanatory. Info rate is how efficiently a language can express a given unit of meaning

>> No.16355297

>>16355233
Surely this logical connection matters for what is signified.

>> No.16355361

>>16355297
How? Signifier-signified relations are always arbitrary

>> No.16355416

>>16355297
context matters more for analysis
the logical connection is nice for synthesis though

>> No.16355450

>>16355361
>>16355416
Eh that's getting too abstract for me. But this debate is a flawed one from the beginning, because there really isn't a best language, only a language that can be considered good looking at it in a certain way. Taking this debate very seriously is for monolinguals, because they're the ones who have the most at stake. Better just to study languages in general in my opinion, you'll get more out of it anyways

>> No.16355502

>>16346522
French is among the best. It has rich vocab, poetic phrasings and was made to sound good (some parts of the language are there purely for aesthetics). English is terrible.

>> No.16355512

>>16355502
It sounds gay tho

>> No.16356463
File: 44 KB, 112x112, 1599005619292.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16356463

>>16349477
>>16351339
>>16352032
thanks

>> No.16356519

>>16350124
>t. Steven Pinker

>> No.16356531

>>16350672
>have easymode for learning english and german
>access to the rest of europe for learning everything else

>> No.16356554

>>16349939
this is stupid

>> No.16356613

>>16348556

Man idk if the people who disagree with this are just butthurt yuropoors or faggot bourgeois Americans

either way fuck all of you English is the best suck my cock

>> No.16357945

>English, but understand French perfectly
>But it's Québec French
>Everyone hates my accent

>> No.16357966

>>16353019
They aren't much different from French.

>> No.16357973

>>16353064
English is inferior because it's a SJW tranny language. Any gendered language is CHAD and Trad, therefore, superior.

>> No.16357974

>>16357945
Québecoise French is more French than frog French.

>> No.16358006

>>16355502
Modern French sounds shit and its orthography is even worse. Your comment would have been true 200 years ago, but not today.

>> No.16358026

>>16346522
English > French > Latin > Ancient Greek > Aramaic > Hebrew > everything else

>> No.16358038

>>16358026
English is for niggers. Its great days have passed. All zoomers speak in ebonics.

>> No.16358039

>>16357974
Possibly, but it just sounds so guttural compared to parisian French. When I speak, I catch myself using far more of the back of the throat than a standard French accent would use. I mean, I'm happy I can understand French, but I sometimes regret how undignified it sounds when I speak.

>> No.16358051

>>16358039
Can you upload a vocaroo? From what little I know of it, Québecoise French seems better.

>> No.16358057

>>16358038
English is the language of empire, so of course bastardised dielects are going to appear. The same thing happened to Latin.

>> No.16358357

>>16354518
That's only true if you had 0 ability to comprehend the text and find context that way. If they're learning German they'd already have enough ability to understand some of it.
Hell it's fucking German, if you took someone who speaks English only and had them read a page of German they could probably give you the rough context.

>> No.16358362

>>16358357
s/German/French

>> No.16358472

>>16358362
Based vim Chad

>> No.16358478
File: 22 KB, 252x438, 1416871534347.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16358478

Fingolian. No annoying little wordlets hanging all over the place in a sentence.

>> No.16358490

definitely not t*rkish.

>> No.16358544

>>16346522
Chinese

>> No.16358636

>>16346522
Is there a good "objective" measure of this? International book rankings or something I can look at? I'm also into film and I know for that its English > Japanese /French > Russian > I forget. English Japanese and French are also the top three for comics.

>> No.16358660

>>16351422
This is not true. The largest English dictionary has many more entries than the largest German one.

>> No.16358663

>>16349939
Stop milking it you fucking newfag