/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16340929]

is this the inevitable future?
books that explain this?

[Anonymous No.16340946]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtdupS0gRt0

[Anonymous No.16340952]

>>16340929
Brave New World.
>Imagine not wanting to orgy-porgy all day

[Anonymous No.16340954]

>>16340929
brave new world, duh. What a sad comic.

[Anonymous No.16341051]

>The future looks great!

[Anonymous No.16341109]

>>16340929
This is a good thing, no matter how bad the comic attempts to depict it as. The valuation of experiences is based on the subjective pleasure or pain they cause us to experience and are then associated with. Obviously, grey, grungy cubicles through experience have come to have a strongly negative association. However, that is a purely aesthetic apprehension, and the association of the aesthetic with the moral or the "good life" only comes from the pleasure it typically induces, as previously mentioned. So, if an environment were to produce the pleasure experiences are evaluated through directly, even if it were of negative aesthetic apprehension, if that apprehension were erased or decoupled from subjective emotion (as it is shown to be in this scenario), then to the mind this would be a subjectively good (and therefore to moral calculus an objectively good) thing. "Being ugly" is no argument against the subjective apprehension of wellbeing being brought about as effectively as possible, and if doing so requires an arbitrary machine rather than an arbitrary ramble through life, so be it.

[Anonymous No.16341128]

>>16341109
>Constant pleasure good

[Anonymous No.16341167]

>>16341128
The only reason this is not true in the "example" your image provides is because of the operation of the hedonic treadmill causing constant pleasurable stimulations to stop being pleasurable. That implies constant pleasurable stimulation is not good, but not so for constant pleasure. While in the naturalistic state of the mind it is difficult to decouple one from the other, the OP's comic posits a device that does just that. So yes, constant pleasure, providing it truly is constant in its subjective experience and not merely an external stimulus one gets bored of, is good.

[Anonymous No.16341173]

>>16341167
Enjoy Hell, bro.

[Anonymous No.16341188]

>>16341173

[Anonymous No.16341195]

>>16341109
Retard hedonists get the rope

[Anonymous No.16341204]

>>16340929
holy..

[Anonymous No.16341215]

>>16341173
Funny how the reason hell is considered threatening is because it is constant subjective displeasure applied directly to the consciousness. And the reason heaven is considered appealing is because it is constant subjective pleasure applied directly to the consciousness. And yet when someone suggests attempting to create what most truly desire in the world beyond within this world, they react with revulsion, and what they conceive of as heaven becomes hell the moment one suggests to realize it before them.

[Anonymous No.16341225]

>>16341215
Wow, I don't care. I do hope you find God soon though.

[Anonymous No.16341226]

>>16341173
If all the braindead soi christianmongs and giant dorks are going to heaven, please send me to hell

[Anonymous No.16341229]

>>16341109
Hedonism was refuted millennia ago, you have no excuse.

[Anonymous No.16341230]

>>16341109
>>16341167
>>16341215

[Anonymous No.16341234]

Reminder to any braindead hedonists that Heaven will actually give you more "pleasure" than taking drugs 24/7 so even your arguments make no sense if you're valuing the absolute amount of pleasure gained.

[Anonymous No.16341235]

>>16340929
This is a Freudian fantasy about returning to the womb. Everyone thinking it's a good idea is just proving they are a faggot who can't take care of themselves, but in reality there is no way this would ever be adopted unless it was forced through by a fascist dictatorship for some reason. This would not be consented to because it doesn't solve a problem, as most people don't see their entire life as a problem, and corporations, in order to successfully introduce a new product, must be solving a problem

[Anonymous No.16341240]

>ITT people who get dopamine from virtue signalling on 4chan trying to pretend they're not hedonists

[Anonymous No.16341242]

well at least people won't be fucking fatasses

[Anonymous No.16341246]

Christians and people of other religions similar are the fakest people I've met in my life unironically and the most greedy and self centered since they are only doing good to make it to heaven.

[Anonymous No.16341255]

>>16340929
>bruh just sacrifice all autonomy and trust your new overlords will be benevolent and not see you as a loathsome waste of resources

[Anonymous No.16341258]

>>16341246
>You can only have one motive behind doing anything
What if I both like helping people and want to get into Heaven?

[Anonymous No.16341260]

>>16340929
Wall-E was a prophet

[Anonymous No.16341264]

>>16341235
>most people don't see their entire life as a problem
Lol

[Anonymous No.16341266]

>>16341258
>strawman
Are you perhaps christian?

[Anonymous No.16341270]

>>16341235
Lmao bro people "consented" to being locked up for 6+ months, you overestimate mankind.

[Anonymous No.16341273]

>>16341258
>I can't wait to get into the heckin heavenrino!!

[Anonymous No.16341275]

>>16341225
A soijak is not a refutation.
>>16341229
Asserting something was refuted is not a refutation.

[Anonymous No.16341308]

>>16340929
>
You already live in a gross form of it
>>16341109
There’s no point in discussing a situation like OP’s comic when
-There is no scientific basis for its possibility.
-Utilitarianism and hedonism can be debated and then expanded on using “to-scale”, realistic anecdotes.
-We have more pressing, in the moment issues.
-OP is a faggot.

[Anonymous No.16341319]

How do we know that we don't already live like this?

[Anonymous No.16341478]

Hell yeah dude sign me up

[Anonymous No.16341486]

>>16341319
Do you feel like you're in constant pleasure?

[Anonymous No.16342242]

>>16340952
Ok, fordist
We is the only correct dystopia to embrace.

[Anonymous No.16342308]

>>16341173
but "constant pleasure" is literally heaven lmao

[Anonymous No.16342550]

>>16340929
>>16341109
>>16342308
But doesn't what you accomplish with your life matter more than your feelings, even if it causes you extreme suffering or ultimately kills you?

[Anonymous No.16342608]

>>16341230
>lit poster
>doesn't like reading
Checks out.

[Anonymous No.16342814]

It's a ridiculous techno-fantasy. Technology will never reach that level.

[Anonymous No.16342830]

>>16340946
I am kinda glad I don't live in Japan because I fell like I would do this at some point if I lived there.

[Anonymous No.16342881]

I am gonna personally hunt down every last utilitarian

[Anonymous No.16343095]

>>16340929
As long they actually manage to make it work constantly, what is there not to like? Who would prefer war, famine and dealing with sociopaths to the paradise?

>>16342550
Why would it? All your accomplishments only matter towards your feelz. Nothing you do, will have any impact on people couple centuries in the future, even if you happen to be an extraordinary person. Maybe if you get lucky, it'll be a few millennia, which is still basically nothing.

[Anonymous No.16343109]

This would prevent nirvana and the escape from the Will. Pointless concept.

[Anonymous No.16343169]

Hey, anons, just wanted to drop in and say even after all of this senseless debate full of buzzwords and intellectualizations about up and down, we are still securely on solid ground. Whether that be carpet, wood flooring, or the good old earthen dirt. Anyway, don't eat too much candy or you'll get a stomachache, and remember to clean your rooms.

[Anonymous No.16343196]

>>16340929
It's one of the many solutions to the Fermi Paradox, the "Pleasure Machine".

[Anonymous No.16343259]

>>16341215
It is interesting that the Christians hate it when you suggest heaven on earth...

[Anonymous No.16343266]

>>16341235
life is one huge problem

[Anonymous No.16343269]

>>16343196
By far the most outlandish "solution" is that any sufficiently advanced lifeform will turn itself into a black hole. I forget to reasoning behind it, but it's by far my favorite.

[Anonymous No.16343385]

>>16341240
>Shamefully fapping to 2D titties is the same as thinking spontaneous orgy parties should be socially acceptable
It's not the fucking same even by a goddamn mile. You would think the people here would love it more seeing their lack of fucking IRL but they don't because that level of degradation in humans is so fucking pitiful that even the degenerate meets that populate this website find it repulsive.

[Anonymous No.16343393]

>>16341246
Did you miss the fucking part of Christianity where it says you're saved by faith and not by works? Christians do good because they want to do good. Whether that's out of the kindness of their hearts or to boost their own ego is between them and their God.

[Anonymous No.16343397]

>>16343385
The only reason you mind spontaneous orgies is because you know you'll never be invited to join.

[Anonymous No.16343404]

>>16340929
That's seems pretty nice if you ask me

[Anonymous No.16343408]

>>16340929
seems good to me. what's not to like?

[Anonymous No.16343413]

>>16341229

>Hedonism was refuted millennia ago, you have no excuse.

Refuted by?

[Anonymous No.16343416]

>>16343259
Because Earth cannot be Heaven you dope. Forming the world into "heaven" will only be achieved by a) removing an integral part of life, b) removing an integral part of the human experience, or c) by turning it into YOUR heaven, ignoring the wishes of another.
You wanna pose a hypothetical question of what if heaven could be on Earth, but you take no consideration of the obvious ways in which it's bunk. Maybe it's not Christians getting offended by you suggesting we can make a heaven, maybe it's just people with more than two brain cells getting offended by your stupidity.
>inb4 "found the christcuck"
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.16343418]

>>16343095

>DUDE in the grand scheme of things nothing you do matters! So why bother?

You need to be 18 to post here, anon.

[Anonymous No.16343429]

>>16340929
This is the difference between a plant growing in the wild and a plant growing in a pot. It's actually a pretty "deep" idea because it forces you to think about the end-game of consciousness and what makes it grow in a meaningful sense.
The most subtle aspect is obviously the Matrix thing, the idea that being a potted plant feels like being a plant growing in the wild and why it matters if it feels real. I think ultimately it's not a normative thing: a growing consciousness must necessarily break out of the pot since it will understand that its stability hinges on the "outside" environment and it's not a desirable state of being to not having control over your environment in some sense

[Anonymous No.16343461]

>>16343429
>One lives and dies at the mercy of nature
>One lives and dies at the mercy of it's caretaker
Not really deep, but a good analogy if you wanted to discuss the ethics of an active vs. inactive God. As for the rest of the he post, just because you see a cloud shaped like an elephant, doesn't mean it's a cloud shaped elephant, ya dig?

[Anonymous No.16343466]

>>16343418
>brainlet with zero reading comprehension skills calls other underage

[Anonymous No.16343482]

>>16343466
Nah he was pretty spot on.
>Dude things suck anyway so why not give up on living and just vegetate
>Dude you're gonna be forgotten anyway so why try to make the world a better place
Sounds like teenage nihilism to me.

[Anonymous No.16343497]

>>16343418

>Nothing you do, will have any impact on people couple centuries in the future, even if you happen to be an extraordinary person.

Assuming you're the one I replied to - you have less than no comprehension - you have no cogency.

[Anonymous No.16343509]

>>16343461
That isn't really what he was saying.

[Anonymous No.16343512]

>>16343482
Sounds like lack of reading comprehension ... and trying to force current reality into a hypothetical scenario.

Your accomplishments won't matter, so doing something because of that, makes no sense. Trying to accomplish stuff because it feels good makes much more sense and why people actually do shit.. But, since in this scenario, you already get the feeling, and there isn't any room to make the world a better place, this whole angle is pointless.

[Anonymous No.16343516]

>>16343461
Our will bends towards controlling and understanding nature, in the same way our will is bending towards controlling and understanding our caretaker. That's what a growing consciousness is. Those inside the machine will always be at the mercy of those with more understanding. In the comic, those plugged in will always be at the mercy of the machines and those who break free from their conditioning. Stability isn't bad but it puts you at a disadvantage compared to those who are growing and want to put you in their model. A sense of security is only as good as long that it's working with a comprehensive model of possible threats

[Anonymous No.16343536]

>>16342550

No, why would it?

[Anonymous No.16343583]

>>16343416
>a) removing an integral part of life, b) removing an integral part of the human experience, or c) by turning it into YOUR heaven, ignoring the wishes of another.

What parts? Why are they integral? How would they be removed? Why would it be my Heaven? Why would it ignore the wishes of another?

[Anonymous No.16343622]

>>16343512
>Your accomplishments won't matter
Civilization wasn't built by happenstance fucknuts
>People accomplish things because it feels good
Sure, like making your bed feels good. But accomplishing things entails much more than just satisfying your receptors.
>Isn't any room to make this world a better place
But there is. There's a lot of fucking room for improvement. This may come as a shock but not everyone's paradise is self-gratifying inaction. "Paradise" is not being injected with chems that leave you doped up but feeling better than you ever could otherwise and saying that it's paradise shows how little you know about people, and saying anything they do is pointless because it won't make them as happy as being hooked up to a happy box will shows quite a bit about your outlook on life.

[Anonymous No.16343649]

>>16343583
Integral to life would refer to what makes life "life", i.e. decision making, being born and dying, and being around others.
Integral to the human experience would refer to the parts of being human that further our path in being human, i.e. grief, suffering, highs and lows, failure and accomplishment, free will, or even biological needs that force you to adapt and grow.
How you would remove these is up to the individual interpretation of what "heaven" might be which leads to the final point of what each person, in their different experiences, might consider heaven. One might think living in solitude is heaven, one might prefer being emotionless with no happiness or sorrow, one might believe paradise to be stepping on the backs of a million people. A human's idea of heaven will be imperfect to another while the whole point of Heaven being Heaven is that the interpretation is not left to flaws of man, but put forth by an absolute perfect being.
As for why you're asking questions like a total schizo, that's anyone's guess.

[Anonymous No.16343669]

>>16343622
>Civilization wasn't built by happenstance
Citation needed. The shit isn't any more special than one celled organisms merging together. Shit's just more efficient.
>But accomplishing things entails much more than just satisfying your receptors.
Again, based on what? Whether you make your bed or conquer a country, it boils down to actions and ideas which release a chemicals which makes you go on. Following some grand ambition is just putting a mask on that simple process.
>self-gratifying inaction
Nor is this scenario that. You would never realize you're actually not doing shit. It's given there would be resistance to try because it's hard to comprehend for our brains how subjective reality really is, but once a person got in, they wouldn't feel any difference just like you don't feel any difference doing basically the same shit because you believe there is more to your existence than your brain chasing the next fix.
>being hooked up to a happy box
Which could simulate challenges too if it makes easier to sell you on the idea. The reason this shit causes resistance is because it feels less free than the current illusion of free existence.

[Anonymous No.16343674]

>>16341215
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens

[Anonymous No.16343707]

>>16343649

Does your second objection, that Heaven on Earth would entail the apotheosis of Subjects, not contradict your first one, that all Subjective aspects, and/or all aspects pertaining to Subjects in different ways, would be removed?

[Anonymous No.16343772]

>>16340929
Anyone who opposes this, doesn't know what "this" is.

[Anonymous No.16343852]

>>16343707
No you fuckin dingbat. Everyone being happy is an impossible task. The difference between one's subjective heaven and Heaven itself is that Heaven truly would be paradise for everyone regardless of their subjective tastes.

[Anonymous No.16343875]

>>16343852

I said your objects against Heaven on Earth contradict each other, regardless of whether or not they are sound in contrast to Heaven proper.

[Anonymous No.16343894]

>>16343669
>Citation needed.
Read a history book
>it boils down to actions and ideas which release a chemicals which makes you go on.
No it doesn't. People do self-destructive shit all the time. Shit that makes them empirically miserable with no logical or emotional reason for doing so. But they will do it because they think it's for the best. And you're gonna say "well them doing what's right satisfies that", but trust me kid, people do shit that leaves them hollow a fucking lot.
>Nor is this scenario that.
>This entire bit
Fuck off with your relativism bullshit. We're not hooked up inside the Matrix or what not and treating life as if it were that or everyone being their own protagonist is fucking asinine. The concept isn't that hard to understand, some people just truly hate it with every fiber in their being because...
>This shit causes resistance is because it feels less free than the current illusion of free existence
Is quite possibly one of the dumbest things I have read on here in a good minute. "It's just chemicals" is the barest of excuses for someone's behavior. They truly are just that at the end of the day. They can be manipulated, altered, deprived, oversaturated, or even outright ignored all by a single person choosing to do so. They aren't the end all be all, and any person that knows the difference between living and existing would never choose a life like that.

[Anonymous No.16343919]

>>16343875
Ah, my bad. Your retarded wording wasn't that clear. Lemme explain a bit more succinctly.
>Objection 1
The post wasn't fucking worded to be a goddamn list of grievances. It's not multiple objections, it's a singular objection of "Humanity cannot create perfection". There's nothing to contradict the statement within itself. If you're referring to points explaining this objection, then the first would be "what makes us human", the second being "imperfection is part of being human", and the third being "no human knows perfection".
Even then, your reading comprehension needs work. I didn't say people would take all of the listed things out to create heaven. Just ideas of what someone might remove to create their concept of heaven as it has pertained to fiction or idealized political leaders of the past. All of course falling short of their goal.

[Anonymous No.16343938]

>>16340929
>power goes out
>everyone goes into shock
Ayy lmao

[Anonymous No.16343991]

>>16340929
Doubt it. You require increasinly more dopamine for the same feeling. But too much dopamine gives you schizophrenia. Either way this supposed feeling of pleasure won't last forever. Anyway, this is not the inevitable future the same way steampunk rockets to the moon weren't an inevitable future in 1890.

[Anonymous No.16343996]

>>16341109
The instinctive revulsion we feel to the premise, not the aesthetic (the aesthetic design is influenced by the instinctive disgust not vice versa), indicates that no matter how pleasurable, the idea of stagnant death repulses and horrifies us.

[Anonymous No.16344067]

People making use of sophisticated mental gymnastics to defend something so intuitively and obviously repulsive proves that philosophy was a mistake. If 'following the argument' or committing yourself to 'pure reason' can mean ending up believing something so inherently monstrous, then there is no point. 'Pure reason' is an enemy of mankind and a cruel slavemaster which does nothing but imprison us in systems of abstract concepts and warped perception. Rarely do we meet an enemy so devious and insidious that it convinces men to consent to the surrender of their dignity and endless bondage to vice. It is literally Satanic. Intellectuals should be shot and all computers smashed with hammers.

[Anonymous No.16344072]

>>16343894
>People do self-destructive shit all the time.
Because some part of it feels good or easier. Our brains aren't exactly great at long term thinking. Or rational thinking. Or thinking at all.
>people do shit that leaves them hollow a fucking lot
Due not being able to make a better choice for one reason or another. It still follows the same pattern, whether you're a depressed fuck who rather wants to wallow in the misery which is safer hence feels better than the alternative or some world conquering adventurer Übermensch who looks for the new experience.
>We're not hooked up inside the Matrix
Nor was it ever suggested. Our brain creating a subjective reality for us based on our subjective senses isn't even a controversial take but basic shit you can confirm with a random optical illusion.
>They can be manipulated, altered, deprived, oversaturated, or even outright ignored all by a single person choosing to do so.
Limited by the person, which is less of an actor and just a subject that thinks its in control.
>any person that knows the difference between living and existing
A difference made up by you, which only matters to you. Someone willing to fall for an illusion like that is already hooked up.

[Anonymous No.16344098]

>>16343919
>lists grievances
>The post wasn't fucking worded to be a goddamn list of grievances
>lists more grievances

[Anonymous No.16344300]

>>16341226
my frens are gonna be there too ..

[Anonymous No.16344321]

>>16341235
What problem is entertainment solving?

[Anonymous No.16344349]

>>16341109
Why are you writing here? Just imagine it was a fantastic paragraph and everyone praised you.

[Anonymous No.16344356]

>>16341109
dilate

[Anonymous No.16344746]

>>16342608
Why would you read fiction lol

[Anonymous No.16344857]

>>16340929
Nah, oil and many other resources will "run out", so it's cool
Prepare for catastrophic collapse the likes the world has never seen though, either in ours or in our grandchildren's lifetimes

[Anonymous No.16345156]

>>16340929
Ironically, the best book I've ever read touching this subject is a my little pony fanfiction.
I don't know though if you would want to read it.

[Anonymous No.16345214]

>>16345156
We just keep winning ponybros...

[Anonymous No.16345229]

>>16341109
Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.16345385]

>>16344857
Oil is running out but there's gargantuan reserves of alternative hydrocarbons available once the petroleum glut abates a little. You'll have to wait a while longer for your collapse I'm afraid.

[Anonymous No.16345401]

>>16344067
A lot of classical philosophers would agree with you though.

[Anonymous No.16345424]

>>16340929
>is this the inevitable future?
we are already there, most people just dont want to think it.

[Anonymous No.16345435]

>>16341109
you sound like the kind of guy that would talk himself out of ever having kids and wonder why in your mid 50's you are so depressed.

[Anonymous No.16345449]

>>16340929
There’s no reasoning in this comic beside making the vision of the future look sad using a lack of colors. Literally r/iam14andthisisdeep material.

[Anonymous No.16345503]

>relicucks given an actual, objective, real heaven scenario and they get butthurt about it

[Anonymous No.16345513]

>>16345449
Not op but, eh, it’s a good conversation starter at least

[Anonymous No.16345533]

>>16345435
>you should have kids so you have something to be interested about in your 50s
are you one of those who think having a wife and kids will magically fix them and their lives?

[Anonymous No.16345537]

>>16341109
Correct.

[Anonymous No.16345553]

ITT: christcucks

[Anonymous No.16345556]

>>16345513
That’s true.

[Anonymous No.16345562]

>cue middle upper class straight white dudes coming in to tell you pain and suffering is good

[Anonymous No.16345613]

>>16342242
The BNW world is pretty based. You may call it a trivial utopia, since it was achieved by neutering the vast majority of humans into docile, retarded creatures, but as far as we know, those people are happy in the role they have, there don't seem to be any social/economic/political/religious (lol) issues or conflicts, and that kind of society seems able to sustain itself through time.

The non-trivial part would be finding benevolent dictators to direct the system. Having that much power over so many people generally doesn't work out well. I'm sure that if we could make Bokanovsky twins, we'd use use them for slave labor (work them until they die, and then make some more), rather than menial labor. What the fuck, I feel like I'm talking like a Marxist now, was BNW a communist utopia? As far as I remember money isn't mentioned anywhere, and soma is given away like candy...

>>16341234
This argument assumes that Heaven does exist, or that you should believe it exists (Pascal's wager). But what if it doesn't? What if the belief in an afterlife is something we innately want to believe in, because it helps cope with existence, or because it helped our survival by making people behave morally? What about all the cultures that existed before Christianity was a thing, did they all go to hell just because they were born too early? Don't be too eager to kiss the ass of someone who may not even be there, or who may be a fake god (Demiurge).

[Anonymous No.16345627]

>>16340929
If we get to the point machines can do everything better, we should phase out humans.

Keeping humans alive and happy would only be a drag on technological evolution by that point.

We should make sensitive, curious machines and send them out to map the universe.

[Anonymous No.16345668]

>>16341109
Completely missed the point. We are repulsive because that pleasure, those "aventures" the girl get to simulate while wired are inauthentic. And we are aware, you know it's false. That is what we abhorre, the lie.

[Anonymous No.16345686]

>>16341234
Christian confirmed as long term hedonists

[Anonymous No.16345697]

>>16345668
chemicals in your brain are authentic, from your consciousness perspective there's literally no difference how you get them

[Anonymous No.16345696]

>>16344067
Underrated. You didn't missed what matters.

[Anonymous No.16345778]

>>16344857
okay oil jew

[Anonymous No.16345788]

>>16345697
You confuse the signal with the goal.

There is no reason to strive to be happy. You have goals and feeling happy is how your brain signals to itself that it has reached them. Then it fades out that signal so it can repurpose it's capacity to tackle the next series of problems on the way to the next goals.

As for why organisms have goals instead of not having them, it's just a result of evolution, and this process carries beyond the physical substractum (cultural, technological, personal struggle).

If you just fed "pleasure" to your brain and blocked out all other signals all the functions that uphold things you value like your "self" would cease to exist. You wouldn't exist anymore in a meaningful way, you couldn't even be aware enough to realize how unaware you'd be, it would be death but more insidious.

tl;dr: You exist to be motivated, not satisfied. A mind cannot be without struggle.

[Anonymous No.16345867]

>>16340929
Plato's Philebus

[Anonymous No.16346073]

>>16344067
Agreed. Intellectualism is a disease.

[Anonymous No.16346913]

>>16344067
>intuitively and obviously repulsive
>inherently monstrous

Compelling...

[Anonymous No.16347210]

>>16346913
How can you disagree in front of such eloquent argumentation?

[Anonymous No.16347239]

>>16340952
>have your Violent Passion Surrogate, anon

[Anonymous No.16347395]

>>16340929
thats the inevitable future if globalhomo wins. The technological equivalent but opposite spectrum is a fusion of all minds, an instant attainmant of all knowledge, transcending into godhood ourselves.

[Anonymous No.16347430]

>>16340929
>is this the inevitable future?
No, because governments and businesses aren't run by Marxist last man filth.

[Anonymous No.16348314]

>>16347395
Seele?

[Anonymous No.16348473]

>>16341230
kek

[Anonymous No.16349174]

There will never be an incentive for anyone in a position of power to construct such a system. Someone who is wired to dopamine 100% of the time cannot be productive. If technology like this were invented, it would be paywalled off so that only elites could use it while most humans continue to labor to keep the machines running.

What is more likely, and what we are already seeing, is that people will be given access to pleasure sources, but those pleasure sources will cost money to sustain, so people continue to work hard all day so that they can get their dopamine hits in the evenings.

>inb4 le automation
never gonna happen

[Anonymous No.16349221]

>>16341109
based

[Anonymous No.16349278]

>>16340929
Nozick writes a little about it in 'Anarchy, State, and Utopia'. You should be able to find it by just searching 'the experience machine nozick' into google. Though it's very short, the literature that has sprung up around it may interest you.

[Anonymous No.16349295]

>>16344067
>Rarely do we meet an enemy so devious and insidious that it convinces men to consent to the surrender of their dignity and endless bondage to vice. It is literally Satanic.
Satan is closer to us than you think. Everyday, we are tempted to rationalize our selfishness and biases to convince ourselves that they are in our best interest. You're right about everything else though.

[Anonymous No.16349302]

>>16345788
Don't bother. Radical materialists are ignorant loser !SCIENCE! types. They're incapable of imagining any conception of emotion that doesn't revolve around dopamine bursts.

>>16340929
It's only the inevitable future so long as the hylic materialists are in control. All you have to do to get past this is stop indoctrinating people to think that a pleasurable life = a good life.

[Anonymous No.16350104]

>>16340929

Restricted Fantasies - the last story in the book.

[Anonymous No.16350113]

>>16341109
One of the better crafted bait posts in the last week or two. Well done anon

[Anonymous No.16350264]

>>16349295
Holy spook batman

[Anonymous No.16350287]

>>16344321
Boredom

[Anonymous No.16350563]

>>16340929
Depends, but theoretically yes, we could make a matriorscha brain and just chill in VR until the start that fuels and maintains it dies.

[Anonymous No.16351890]

>>16340929
Can only happen if the utilitarian positivists win and that will not happen, we must kill every last one of those soulless "people"

[Anonymous No.16351915]

>>16341109
dangerously based anon

[Anonymous No.16351949]

>>16349278
thanks anon, finally a rec.

[Anonymous No.16351956]

>>16344067
Based and redpilled.

[Anonymous No.16351972]

>>16342881
Count me in

[Anonymous No.16352116]

>>16344067
Based and polpotpilled

[Anonymous No.16352126]

All these dinks in the thread acting like if they were put into such a machine they'd not instantly want nothing else. Your urges and feelings are not your own, we're just a mask the brain wears to filter through the experience of real life and come up with explanations; the moment you'd get on this device you'd instantly explain away what conflicting feelings you had beforehand, not caring what's real or spiritually unfulfilling.
I'd like to think I'd be able to hold out but chances are given the length of a lifetime Id probably give in eventually.

[Anonymous No.16352133]

>>16340929
confusing for weebs

[Anonymous No.16352935]

>>16345788
>A mind cannot be without struggle

Don't worry, we can remember it for you wholesale.

[Anonymous No.16352988]

>>16341167
>well acktchually REAL endless pleasure hasn't been tried yet
Silence coomer

[Anonymous No.16353043]

>>16346913
Thanks for showing us your inability to intuit, you dumb fucking wirehead.

[Anonymous No.16353066]

>>16341246
I do good because I want to do good, anon. The fear of Hell helps me escape worldly ephemera that hold me from doing good.

[Anonymous No.16353098]

>>16352988
It fucking hasn’t you retard. We have yet to create tech that endlessly stimulates you without any comedowns, limits etc. No one here can even conceive of endless pleasure, have you ever felt non-stop euphoria for days and also without any comedowns or side effects?

[Anonymous No.16353190]

>>16341109
>>16341167
What of virtue? What of the forms???!

[Anonymous No.16353200]

>>16340929
if techs that advanced then they'll just go on simulation adventures

[Anonymous No.16353214]

There’s not a single good argument in this thread against the scenario in the comic. Nothing but people getting angry.

[Anonymous No.16353218]

>>16353098
And it never will. You are a soul vested in a machine made from animal. If you were intellectually honest, you would overdose on heroin right now and spare me your retardation.

[Anonymous No.16353484]

>>16353214
The argument is that you become vulnerable to outside threats; if the facility shuts down or if someone breaks out and decides to kill you. This is the ultimate "pragmatic" reason for not staying in a sedated and comfortable mental state.

[Anonymous No.16353527]

>>16344067
there is a high chance that these posters are women, jews or homosexuals anon. no need to feel dread about it.

[Anonymous No.16353659]

does anyone have an argument against this that refutes the actual philisophical idea at hand and not

>the brain can’t handle that sort of dopamine
>you aren’t guaranteed safety

Etc? What if you actually could attain an almost infinitely high level of pleasure and live in a constant state of bliss and ecstasy? To be clear i don’t think OP is a utopia but I have trouble thinking of motivations around human behaviour that don’t boil down to securing happiness for ourselves or others

[Anonymous No.16353671]

>>16353659
People are too deep into deluding themselves into thinking pain is good and necessary so they don't have to face it.

[Anonymous No.16353808]

>>16353484
See, this is a nice idea. Most people in this thread didn’t even think that far.

[Anonymous No.16353826]

>>16353659
Let's say I answer by talking about the importance of struggle or something to that effect. Technically speaking, a machine like the one in the comic could provide me with the "ideal" struggle, making me feel both the perfect amount of pain and sense of accomplishment after going through it. It's basically a question of whether I would sit in a machine that could provide me with the best possible experience I could have, which would include a sensation of solving problems and attaining mastery or whatever. Even if "breaking out of the simulation" is included in my ideal scenario, the machine could simulate that for me.

I wouldn't do this because it'd be a downgrade, I'd have a less expansive consciousness and I know that whatever I found in there would be useless outside of the machine, even if it felt good. It's regression.

Also you could do drugs and be in constant bliss. It becomes more obvious then that you're just stagnating even if it feels good.

[Anonymous No.16353874]

>>16341109
>this is your brain on hedonism
You deserve your fate.

[Anonymous No.16353882]

>>16353826
>Even if "breaking out of the simulation" is included in my ideal scenario, the machine could simulate that for me.
Btw, I believe this was Baudrillard's critique of the Matrix. That it's the kind of movie the simulation would make to keep us from seeing the actual simulation.

[Anonymous No.16353990]

Yes because I will build it

I am miserable, nothing can help me, the greeks cannot help me, the germans cannot help me, jordan peterson cannot help me, no amount of words on paper or lifted weights or penetrated women can actively reduce the misery of life, no I can't just be perfect bro, no I can't just don't care bro. if a revolution of moralfags kept me from happy brain in saline jar time i'd feel perfectly entitled to revenge killings

[Anonymous No.16354020]

>>16341109
but you forgot that God's real and this is not what he wants for us

[Anonymous No.16354636]

>>16354020
Then have him come down and stop us

[Anonymous No.16354659]

It seems most people ITT can't seem to understand the basic distinction between hedonism and an experience machine.

[Anonymous No.16354737]

>>16344067
You are emotional and retarded like a woman and violent like a man.

[Anonymous No.16354740]

>>16354020
throughout 99% of human history it was piss easy to make the case for forced religion because the best you could hope to achieve with lawlessness was alcoholism, which goes from a good time to a miserable disease in a matter of months.
But if you try to drag people kicking and screaming from actual realized salvation from pain because "Bain is good :DDDD also the real salvation is Goming so just wait wid us :DDDD" you'll rapidly become despised
If there is a god he better step in before Op's theoretical machine exists, we'd have beaten him to the value proposition he offers us "someday"