/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16327985]

>All of western literature and philosophy single-handedly BTFO before it even existed by one guy
Heh, nothing personnel kid.

[Anonymous No.16327989]

Buddhism is western philosophy

[Anonymous No.16328009]

>>16327989
Source?

[Anonymous No.16328012]

OP here, posted the wrong image.

[Anonymous No.16328036]

>>16328009
The Kybalion said Hindu philosophy was influenced directly from Hermes. And Buddhism was influenced by Hinduism.

[Anonymous No.16328042]

>>16327985
What is the difference between Buddhism and Nihilism?

[Anonymous No.16328044]

>>16328036
>The Kybalion said

[Anonymous No.16328049]

>>16328042
What’s the similarity?

[Anonymous No.16328053]

Post better bait next time.

[Anonymous No.16328073]

>>16328053
>Post better bait next time.

[Anonymous No.16328082]

>>16327985
This had already happened with the egyptians long before the Buddha and also with the rishis of the vedic period and the oprhic and eleusinian mystae. But Platonism is the only accessible form to what they all said, it presents the initiate with a ladder to the Good and supports his ascension with rational pillars instead of ''just dont think about these things, just meditate''.

[Anonymous No.16328087]

>>16328042
buddhism = destroying dukkha
nihilism = the spook of destroying other spooks

[Anonymous No.16328094]

[Anonymous No.16328099]

>>16328082
Everyday I give thanks for our resident Platonist. Look at what virtue and wisdom can be gathered by a common NEET autodidact for puts himself to striving.

The gods truly favors the bold.

[Anonymous No.16328108]

>>16328073
You sure destroyed all of western literature and philosophy by posting a soijack and a funny arrow. Good work!

[Anonymous No.16328122]

Nihilism is the belief that there is no objective morality or truth. I would also say that it's fair to call forms of skepticism that say that while there is such a thing as objective morality or truth it is 100% unattainable in any form "nihilism".

Buddhism rejects this idea, believing that there is such a thing as objective morality, and objective truth. How we can interface with these things is certainly different than in Western philosophy and theology, but that doesn't mean they're absent.

>>16328082
Well, it's a good thing that that's not what Buddhism says!

[Anonymous No.16328127]

>>16328087
>virgin Buddhism: destroy suffering through recognizing phenomena for what it is and become an apathetic sissy incapable of action because of dogmatic overbearing moralfagging
>chad Stoicism: destroy suffering through recognizing phenomena for what it is and crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentations of their women

[Anonymous No.16328137]

>>16328122
I meant to quote >>16328042 in the first blob.

[Anonymous No.16328164]

>>16327985
>no retroactively
Not /lit/ approved. Lurk more.
Speaking of which, the meme level on this board is fucking ineffable. It feels like the illuminati at least sixty-nine percent of the time.

[Anonymous No.16328178]

>>16328082
> But Platonism is the only accessible form to what they all said, it presents the initiate
It is literally the opposite, the Platonic tradition was shut down by the Byzantines, there is no surviving Platonic initiation, only larpers. Whereas the Hindu, Taoist, Sufi etc initiatic lineages survive intact in the modern era. Damascius had the chance to travel elsewhere and start a new platonic center, to bring new people into the tradition that would ensure it survived, but instead he let it die with him.

[Anonymous No.16328217]

>>16328178
The Catholic Church IS the Platonic Tradition, you idiot. Have you even READ Gorgias? Anything by Hermes Trismegistus? The fucking Pyramid Texts?

Fucking moron.

[Anonymous No.16328269]

>>16328099
wasn't even me
>the flower blooms

[Anonymous No.16328271]

>>16328099
I'm not that schizo platonist, I'm a christian btw.

>>16328122
Well that was obviously a caricature, but Platonism starts from phenomena, where the uninitiated finds himself. It is difficult, if possible at all, for someone to pass from the sensual part of one's soul to one's purely intellectual or spiritual role.

>>16328178
What are you even talking about? The texts are the most accessible way to understand the nature of phenomena and the ascension from there. Platonism didn't accomplish what other proper traditions did, Platonism itself is a form of initiation into the Mysteries.

>Damascius had the chance to travel elsewhere and start a new platonic center, to bring new people into the tradition that would ensure it survived, but instead he let it die with him.
It was absorbed by some Christians but mainly the Islamics, that is, well founded traditions, what Platonism lacked even though they themselves knew this.

[Anonymous No.16328282]

>>16328269
I think I have made a horrible mistake.
>>16328217
>The Catholic Church IS the Platonic Tradition

[Anonymous No.16328433]

>>16328271
> The texts are the most accessible way to understand the nature of phenomena and the ascension from there.
self-studying is not real initiation

[Anonymous No.16328494]

>>16328178
>>16328433
Plato, after some Aristotle + studying Logic and Physics, is the initiation. Plato will initiate you through his works, if you strive. He wrote the way he wrote to midwife beyond time. The birth-pangs are born in mania. It's really no different from an artist hearing music and being inspired to sing, or painted being moved to paint, or explorer to discover, the philosopher's drive will draw out the light.
>>16328217
>The Catholic Church IS the Platonic Tradition
It could be, if it tried harder, but unlikely. The Church grasps, ironically, only 'through a glass darkly' the truth, glimpsing it through history by means of various half-heretics like Eriugena or Eckhart---or: it would perhaps be in my interest to admit that these sages(?) as being the veiled continuation of the Tradition once it went into 'exile', operating behind the scenes in the church, slowly sprinkling clues and keys into the church, slowly reanimating the less and less soulless statue that is 'the Church'. The method/sacrifice of Olympiodorus is likely, perhaps, the best path; but it is a narrow bridge across an endless abyss.

>Furthermore, to return to Theseus, they say that Pasiphae was a daughter of Helios and loved a bull and produced the Minotaur that Theseus killed. Some say that Tauros was a man, a general of Minos, who fell out with him and fought him, and for this reason was called Minotaur, i.e. 'Tauros, Minos' general'. And it was against him that Theseus was sent to fight. But this is false. For he was sent as part of the tribute, and if he had been sent against such a general he would not have been sent as part of the tribute. Again they say that Ariadne gave him a thread and so saved him from the labyrinth. Now all these things signify something different. For the Minotaur signifies the bestial passions within us, the thread signifies a divine power attached [to us] and the labyrinth signifies the crooked and variegated nature of life. Hence, since Theseus was excellent, he overcame these passions, and not only did he himself overcome them, but he also taught others to do so. (Olympiodorus.)

[Anonymous No.16328500]

>>16328433
not in the traditional sense which as i said platonism lacked. my employing of the word initiate in my first post was analogical in the same sense that platonism is analogical to the mysteries too as plato repeatedly points to this same view making references and using the same specific terms. platonism is a mirror of the mysteries and studying it is penetrating into what the mysteries offered in traditional and more properly religious (complete) way.

[Anonymous No.16328517]

>>16328099
>>16328082
>>16328099
I just wish it was not full of shitty spooks though.

[Anonymous No.16328638]

>>16328494
The problem with this take on the Church is that it depurates through an exclusively platonic filter. Whatever goes beyond platonism it is not taken into consideration, specially the concretization of the symbolique upon which all traditions stand. The Church does not take Platonism to be a revealed symbolique, but a support to understanding and rationalizing them. Platonism is a lens through which you can penetrate further into what is revealed and surpasses rationality (and thus can only be presented in symbols).
Your saying that
> The Church grasps, ironically, only 'through a glass darkly' the truth
means that the Church is not exclusively dedicated to the rationalistic lens that is predominant in platonism. There is, nonetheless, an inevitable conversion of both platonism to this same sort of 'dark glass' - which is what surpasses rationality and stands as the Ground of reality - and a complementation by the Church to this ''rationalistic'' side with the theologians (but which will expose in rational form as a support to what is symbolique and will maintain it intact).

>by means of various half-heretics like Eriugena or Eckhart.
Then you disregard the entire canon of christian theologians who worked in the same way, with platonic support safeguarding at the same time the christian symbolique.

You disregard that the Church even in its influences is not bound solely to platonism and there is a long mystical (or esoteric) jewish tradition influencing it behind.

[Anonymous No.16328893]

>>16328638
>dedicated to the rationalistic lens that is predominant in platonism
If then, we have shown that names and definitions and rational knowledge are worthless for grasping intclHgible objects, what should we say about them with regard to the One? Surely that all names and all discourse and all rational knowledge fall short of it? So the One is not nameable or expressible or knowable or perceptible by anything that exists. This is why it is beyond the grasp of all sensation, all judgement, all science, all reasoning, all names. But, you will say, what is the difference between this and what he has already said? For he said before that there is no apprehension of the One. But there he said that the One (is not knowable) by others . . . He is showing by this very insistence that it is not unknowable becauseof the weakness o f other things, but by its own nature. By what he said before, he indicated the inferiority of other things in relation to the One, but here its super-excellence with regard to itself. But we must attend to the fact that when he says that the One is not known, by “knowledge” he means “rational knowledge.” Before, he mentioned three things— rational knowledge, opinion, and sensation— and as in this sentence he takes up two that are the same as in the previous one. namely sensation and opinion, it is obvious that by the third, “knowledge,” he means only rational knowledge, so that if there is a divinely inspired knowledge that is better than rational knowledge and which leads the One in ourselves towards that One, obviously the argument did not eliminate this, and learning it is the “final discipline’ as Socrates rightly says (Rep, VI, 505a), because it is discipline in the final knowledge. But this final knowledge is not science, but is higher than science.

>>16328638
>The Church does not take Platonism to be a revealed symbolique
Vatican 2 is perhaps the first real flawed step away from this, or rather towards the acceptance of extra-biblical revelation.
Zeus found in Semele a flawless woman, whose beauty and purity in her simplicity surpassed all the heavens, from whom he begat the dead undying living King of kings and God of gods—Dionysus, the heart of the world. Man and August God.

[Anonymous No.16328971]

>>16328012
so fucking based

[Anonymous No.16328991]

>>16327989
we

[Anonymous No.16328998]

>>16328893
>Zeus found in Semele a flawless woman, whose beauty and purity in her simplicity surpassed all the heavens, from whom he begat the dead undying living King of kings and God of gods—Dionysus, the heart of the world. Man and August God.
Sounds like you plucked that straight from Catholic Mariology.

[Anonymous No.16329075]

>>16328998
yet it is centuries older that christ

>30. To Dionysos
>incense—storax
I call upon loud-roaring,
reveling Dionysos,
primeval, two-natured,
thrice-born Bacchic lord,
savage, ineffable, secretive, 3
two-horned and two-shaped,
ivy-covered, bull-faced,
warlike, howling, pure.
You take raw flesh in triennial feasts,
wrapped in foliage, decked with grape clusters,
resourceful Eubouleus, 6
immortal god sired by Zeus
when he mated with Persephone
in unspeakable union.
Hearken to my voice, O blessed one,
you and your fair-girdled nurses,
breathe on me in a spirit 9
of perfect kindness.


>44. To Semele
>incense—storax
I call upon the daughter of Kadmos,
queen of all,
fair Semele of the lovely tresses,
of the full bosom,
mother of thyrsos-bearing, 3
joyous Dionysos.
She was driven to great pain
by the blazing thunderbolt,
which, through the counsels of Kronian Zeus,
the immortal god, burned her.
Noble Persephone 6
granted her honors
among mortal men,
honors given every third year.
For all mortal men reenact your travail
for your son Bacchos:
the sacred ritual of the table, 9
the ritual of the holy mysteries

>45. Hymn to Dionysos Bassareus and Triennial
Come blessed Dionysos,
bull-faced god conceived in fire,
Bassareus and Bacchos,
many-named master of all.
You delight in bloody swords, 3
you delight in the holy Maenads,
as you howl throughout Olympos,
all-roaring and frenzied Bacchos.
Armed with the thyrsos, wrathful in the extreme,
you are honored
by all gods and all men 6
who dwell upon the earth.
Come, blessed and leaping god,
bring abundant joy to all.

[Anonymous No.16329090]

>>16328073
No you

[Anonymous No.16329092]

>>9424682
Dionysus cult is just a gathering of whores and simps. This is why Nietzsche liked Dionysus so much.
Subhuman hedonists will do anything to make up a narrative where they can larp as power trippers.

This is why women, coomers, liberals today still like Nietzsche his Dionysus crap.

[Anonymous No.16329109]

>>16328998
>>16329075
>48. To Sabazios
incense—aromatic herbs
Hear me, father Sabazios,
son of Kronos, illustrious god,
you sewed into your thigh
Bacchic Dionysos,
the roaring Eiraphiotes, 3
that he might come whole
to noble Tmolos
by the side of fair-cheeked Hipta.
O blessed ruler of Phrygia,
supreme king of all,
come kindheartedly to the aid 6
of the initiates.

>56. To Adonis
incense—aromatic herbs
Hear my prayer, O best,
O many-named god.
Fine-haired, solitary,
ever bursting with lovely song,
Eubouleus, many-shaped, 3
noble nurturer of all,
male and female in one …
unwithering bloom, O Adonis,
you vanish and then shine again
in the fair season’s turn.
Two-horned spirit of growth, 6
much loved and wept for,
fair one, joyful hunter,
god of the luxuriant mane,
desire is in you, O sweet blossom,
O son of Aphrodite and Eros,
born on the bed 9
of lovely-tressed Persephone.
You dwell deep
in murky Tartaros,
then again toward Olympos
you carry your blossoming body.
Come, O blessed one, bring 12
earth’s fruits to the initiates.

5. nature three-fold: It is not entirely clear what is meant by this. At OH
30.2, Dionysos is called “two-natured, thrice-born” (and see note). The
three natures indicated here might refer to those births in that he has
three different “mothers”: Semele, Persephone, and the thigh of Zeus.
On the other hand, since Dionysos was devoured by the Titans and
thereby had contact with them, it is possible that his nature is threefold:
human through Semele, Titanic through the Titans, and Olympian
through Zeus (cf. the composite nature of human beings in Orphic
anthropogonies, summarized and discussed in Graf/Johnston 2007, pp.
85–90). Another possibility is that Dionysos’ nature can be seen to
embody the bestial, the human, and the divine. As with the contradictory
references to Dionysos’ birth throughout the collection, the ambiguity
might be intentional.

6: “Primeval” is the translation of “prōtogone,” which naturally recalls the
Orphic entity known as Protogonos, who also shares with Dionysos the
sobriquets Erikepaios, Eubouleus, and Bromios; see OH 6.4n+i.
Through this identity, Dionysos can rightly be called both the “father and
son of the gods.”

[Anonymous No.16329141]

Is enlightenment bound to a physical place in the brain? If so, can this part of the brain be manipulated in such a way that it stops "producing" enlightenment? If enlightenment can be destroyed by a scalpel, is the foundation of the teaching of the Buddha still true? If enlightenment is not bound to the brain, where does is reside?

[Anonymous No.16329142]

>>16328517
How could you possibly misunderstand stirner this badly

[Anonymous No.16329145]

>>16329109
52. To the God of Triennial Feasts
incense—aromatic herbs
I call upon you, blessed, many-named,
frenzied Bacchos,
bull-horned, Nysian, Lysios,
Lenaios, conceived in fire.
Nourished in the thigh, Liknites, 3
you lead torch-lit processions,
you lead them in the night, O filleted,
O thyrsos-shaking Eubouleus.
Your nature three-fold, your rites ineffable,
O secret offspring of Zeus,
primeval, Erikepaios, 6
father and son of the gods,
you take raw flesh, and sceptered you lead us
into the madness of revel and dance,
into the frenzy of triennial feasts
that bestow calm on us.
You burst forth from the earth in a blaze ..., 9
O son of two mothers,
horned and clad in fawn skin, you roam the mountains,
O lord worshipped in annual feasts.
Paian of the golden spear,
nursling, decked with grapes,
Bassaros, exulting in ivy, 12
followed by many maidens ...,
joyous and all-abounding, come,
O blessed one, to the initiates.

[Anonymous No.16329194]

>>16329145
DIONYSOS. Thebes taints me with bastardy. I am turned into an
alien, some foreign outgrowth of her habitual tyranny. My
followers daily pay forfeit for their faith. Thebes blasphemes
against me, makes a scapegoat of a god.
It is time to state my patrimony - even here in Thebes.
I am the gentle, jealous joy. Vengeful and kind. An essence that
wiii not exclude, nor be excluded. If you arc Man or Woman, I
am Dionysos. Accept.

A seed of Zeus was sown in Semele my mother earth, here on
this spot. It has burgeoned through the cragged rocks of far
Mghanistan, burst the banks of fertile Tmolus, sprung oases
through the red-eyed sands of Arabia; flowered in hill and
gorge of dark Ethiopia. It pounds in the blood and breasts of
my wild-haired women, long companions on this journey home
through Phrygia and the isles of Crete. It beats on the walls of
Thebes, bringing vengeance on all who deny my holy origin
and call my mother - whore.
He looks down on the clouds of smoke wrapped round his feet, rising
from the tomb. He scuffs the ground with a foot, scattering ashes and
sparks.

Something lives yet, there is smoke among the rubble. Live
embers. The phoenix rises and that is life - wings from cooling
cinders, tendrils from putrefaction, motion from what was
petrified ... There are green vines on the slag of ruin. Mine.
As on the mountain slopes, clustering and swelling. They flush,
they flood the long-parched throats of men and release their
joy. This sacrament of earth is life. Dionysos.

[Anonymous No.16329249]

>>16329141
There's no one part of you that is the "real you". There is no tiny man in your head. There is no discrete "computer" in your brain. Buddhism, and indeed Hinduism, rejects the idea of the "brain as container". Rather, the brain is a thing that does things. Thoughts don't "enter" your head, your brain does thinking.

This gets into Buddhist ideas of the mind, and what constitutes a mind, and what constitutes a brain (even if you don't have a pink squishy thing, it's fair to say that a sufficiently advanced "thinky box" could count as a "brain", which is how Gods and the like have minds even if they lack physical bodies). The tl;dr is that Buddhist ideas of enlightenment work precisely BECAUSE the brain is an assembly of parts. The Buddhist ideas of enlightenment would not work if Descartes' idea of the pineal gland being the "real you" were true.

Enlightenment, by the way, is not a "thing". Rather, it's a state. You don't "go to" nirvana. You're already there. You're Nirvanaing. The goal is not to leave Samsara, but to stop Samsaraing. Right now, you're Samsaraing and Nirvanaing. What you want, is to only be Nirvanaing.

[Anonymous No.16329269]

>>16329249
I don't get it, but thats ok. Thanks for the explanation anyway.

[Anonymous No.16329292]

>>16328893
Yes that passage expresses rationally the nonrational character of the numinous. It is discursively shown that the One cannot be apprehended by rational knowledge and not symbolically like in (proper) religions. I don't disregard the platonic task, I consider it to be an excellent initiation, but it falls short of what complete religions offer. What do you have to say about the understanding Iamblichus had concerning the symbol and theurgia found in egyptian, assyrian theopoesis, or about the explicit references Plato made to the mysteries which were more drawn to the purely symbolic?

>Vatican 2
Nobody is talking about it. Why do you need to bring it to the discussion? Everything I said can be and was referred to pre-Vatican 2 Church.

>Zeus found in Semele a flawless woman...
Diverting again as always. Christ is the Incarnation of the Osirian-Horian symbolique. End of story.

[Anonymous No.16329347]

might have gone overboard again with the hymns
here's some exegesis, I
>In his commentary on Plato’s Alcibiades, Proclus might refer to a scene in which Apollo attempts to dissuade Dionysus from leaving the throne of Zeus. He says that “Orpheus sets the Apollonian monad over king Dionysus, deterring him from proceeding toward the multitude of the Titans and from rising up from his royal throne, and guarding him undefiled in a state of unity.”143 The Neoplatonists equate Apollo with Helios: in Platonic Theology, Proclus claims that Orpheus and Plato consider Helios to be “the same as Apollo.”144 Damascius in his Phaedo commentary says of Helios that “while in his quality of Dionysus he is divided over the world, but as Apollo he holds an intermediate position, gathering the dividedness of Dionysus and standing by the side of Zeus.”145 Therefore, Apollo-Helios represents the power of unification by which the lower levels of the Neoplatonic universe revert back to the One.
>SOCRATES: So let us pray to the gods for assistance when we perform our mixture, Protarchus, whether it be Dionysus or Hephaestus or any other deity who is in charge of presiding over such mixtures.
PROTARCHUS: By all means.
SOCRATES: We stand like cup-bearers before the fountains—the fountain of pleasure, comparable to honey, and the sobering fountain of intelligence, free of wine, like sober, healthy water—and we have to see how to make a perfect mixture of the two.
>when all things become clear
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[Anonymous No.16329390]

>>16329292
Theurgy is the whole movement of climbing the ladder of love/beauty, it is in negation of the negation that you by grace (evident in Plotinus) find the Sun in the Night and the night in the sun.
Artists are divinely inspired, if it is beautiful, "symbolique" only has to be beautiful to enkindle the embers of the body's ashes; irregardless of the artists intent, there's only one beauty and all beauty points to her. To use the Bacchae.

[Anonymous No.16329399]

>>16329390
>Artists are divinely inspired, if it is beautiful, "symbolique" only has to be beautiful to enkindle the embers of the body's ashes; irregardless of the artists intent, there's only one beauty and all beauty points to her. To use the Bacchae.
Yeah artists are hedonists who cant stop cooming and they try to pass as good guys. Turns out they are garbage people.

[Anonymous No.16329466]

>>16328127
>apathetic sissy incapable of action because of dogmatic overbearing moralfagging
You haven't heard about the Buddhists removing kebab from their homeland, did you?

[Anonymous No.16329490]

>>16329141
The same way removing one's fingers destroys the foundations of playing the piano. You need a healthy brain in order for the mind to function and reach nibbana, but there is no particular place in the brain resposible for that.

[Anonymous No.16329512]

>>16329390
Theurgists put emphasis on the symbolique. This is my point.

[Anonymous No.16329691]

>>16328012
basado

[Anonymous No.16329890]

>>16327985
Hermeticism(pretentious buddhism) and gnosticism(emo buddhism), were basically doing the same thing around the same time. Transcendence is a universal concept and goal among aryan descended people

[Anonymous No.16329959]

>>16329890
>transcendence is a universal concept and goal among aryans.... now let me emphasize how everything this specific ethnic group, which i cant even define but merely employ the term to hint at my own ethnocentric bias in order to further my political inclinations, produced is a solid ground to my very ethnopolitical bias. but....... we are all for transcendence even if we confuse de universal with the particular, trust me.

[Anonymous No.16330137]

>>16329890
>Hermeticism(pretentious buddhism) and gnosticism(emo buddhism)
retard

[Anonymous No.16330143]

>>16327985
The Iliad and Odyssey predate the Buddha. Checkmate.

[Anonymous No.16330146]

I'm kind of interested in buddhism from the perspective of Advaita Vedanta and Shankara, aka Shankaracharya.

[Anonymous No.16330163]

>>16330146
You would unironically love The Spiritual Heritage of India by Swami Prabhavananda. He approaches Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain theology from an advaita vedanta perspective.

[Anonymous No.16330184]

>>16330163
Why thanks Anon, that sounds like an interesting book to add to my collection

[Anonymous No.16330449]

>>16329075
>>16329109
>>16329145
>>16329194
>>16329347
Interesting stuff but you need to practice the art of midwifery! because immaaa going insaneeeeee *AAAARGH*

[Anonymous No.16330482]

Retroactively refuted by the Talmud.

[Anonymous No.16330545]

is this just a religion of reason (with some spice of myth)?

[Anonymous No.16330585]

>>16328036
Catastrophic cope.