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/lit/ - Literature

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16309957 No.16309957 [Reply] [Original]

Humans are incapable of generating random sequences of number. You can use simple metrics to know when a sequence of numbers was generated by a person, and even what person generated it, from the patterns.

Is this evidence that free will is an illusion? If we had complete free will it should be easy to come up with unforced random numbers, since it's such an inconsequential task.

>> No.16309966

>>16309957
You know I can just let fly my fingers without any conscious interference and it will seem as if random, right?

1345491673764949767676494943868649245751846738385516738861873786194675764913864914386148143782481973591818758057

Analyze that now

>> No.16309973

>Humans are incapable of generating random sequences of number.
So are computers.

>> No.16309974

>>16309957
>Is this evidence that free will is an illusion?
Why would it be? Us being unable to do a specific thing isn't evidence that we are without wills. We can't fly unaided either.

>> No.16309975

>>16309957
what is the actual definition of randomness?

>> No.16309992

>>16309966
This is bait, right?

>> No.16309998
File: 1.93 MB, 1574x1438, 1599394136791.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16309998

Anyone else a compulsive lottery player? I used to have big dreams and ever since I became an adult and working with a decent salary and owning my own house I realized they're impossible. Even my previous investments were a waste of time and don't provide enough. I spend all remaining income on lottery tickets. If things don't turn around in a few more years it's over for me.

>> No.16310006

nigger
1/26^6 odds
must be a coincidence

>> No.16310019

>>16309966
That is not the same task as coming up with a sequence of numbers one by one. Humans can also program RNG generators or machines that use quantum effects to generate random numbers. Even if you could truly randomly move your fingers or smash the keyboard at random, that's not the point.
>>16309973
But they are better than unaided humans at it.
>>16309974
It seems to indicate our choices are forced by subconscious factors. What if this is true for all of our decisions?
>>16309975
Equal probabilities of independent draws. The human sequences often fail this because certain numbers or sequences of numbers are favored for some reason.

>> No.16310023

>>16309992
Not really no. Like I said, I can fling around my fingers with little to no conscious interference. The reason for repeating digits is simply that I'm phoneposting and my fat fingers block each other

>> No.16310024

>>16309957
>excerpt from a female subject
I think I know what your problem is anon.

>> No.16310031

What if you task a human to press a button which captures the time in milliseconds from a clock, and use the output for a random sequence? It still wouldn't be perfect but it would be harder to detect the patterns I bet

>> No.16310037

>>16309998
Have you ever gotten remotely close to winning?

>> No.16310048

>>16309966
7 6 4 9 and 8

Literal NPC

>> No.16310057

>>16310019
>Equal probabilities of independent draws. The human sequences often fail this because certain numbers or sequences of numbers are favored for some reason.
Im a mathlet but wouldn't any given string of numbers not show this quality, but rather privilege certain numbers and even orders?

>> No.16310066

174431735241574334.255517352457365234175236451412341475362453561345635813534568w6545864183253025645.457123542454176358234641735.2344156751473622w44156563274214w5523667413573025.465w4352665741w23.42557143654348573520w201

>> No.16310067

>>16310048
>post ends in 4 and 8
And thus the moron reveals his hypocrisy

>> No.16310073

>both numbers-stroke posts end in 66

>> No.16310075

>>16310037
I matched 3/5 numbers once. Not close in my opinion.

>> No.16310167

>>16310019
Humans program pseudo RNGs.

>> No.16310180

>>16310023
Your fingers do not hit the keys randomly. You know that, right?

>> No.16310195

>>16310019
>It seems to indicate our choices are forced by subconscious factors. What if this is true for all of our decisions?
Those factors are still you, though. They operate within the system that is you as a person and can generally be trained in to a person, see socialisation, or out of a person, such as training soldiers to bypass fight or flight or acclimating someone to a situation where their physic reactions such as flinching are controlled. These are behaviours you execute on a fast track, sure, but subconscious behaviours are still YOUR behaviours.
As far as we are aware, nothing is capable of generating "true" randomness, using that as a benchmark is perhaps not helpful.

>> No.16310203

>>16310180
Yes, obviously. But the more unconscious I let my fingers fly the more random it'll be

>> No.16310204

>>16309966
Based clueless Chad

>> No.16310211

>>16309998
Sorry, your brain borned programmed to generate the non-winner number patterns.

>> No.16310214

>humans are unable to do something
>is this evidence we lack free will?

stop posting

>> No.16310220

>>16309998
No. At least gambling gives you a rush. Lottery is sterile.

>> No.16310226

>>16310031
There are whole interesting philosophical inquiries into pseudorandomness

The reddit I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE youtube video answer is that pseudorandomness is not only always imperfect, but surprisingly imperfect, meaning it's surprisingly difficult to get "good enough," "as if random" results. You have to create disproportionately complex or clever apparatuses for relatively simple tasks that require randomness. Otherwise some maths asshole will come along and show you how your supposedly "close enough to truly random" outcomes in your computing/business/whatever were actually producing stereotyped and/or predictable outcomes.

It's pretty neat

>> No.16310236

>>16310211
I use a pseudo RNG each time. I usually dump it in one big amount every paycheck which makes repeating the previous numbers used a lot of work as there are 50 to 200 tickets in play if not more.

>> No.16310241

>>16309998
I have a relative who has been doing this for 30 years and has not much to show for it. If you want to keep it as a vice, do it responsibly and keep yourself mindful that it IS a vice. Don't do shit like spending all your spare income on it.

Gambling addiction and various gambler's cognitive biases are such a horrible hole that people fall down, often shockingly smart and deep people for whom it becomes a crutch or an obsession. Don't let that happen to you, get help sooner rather than later. Nothing is over. Hang in there.

>> No.16310527

>>16309957
>humans can't gen random nums
>comps can't gen random nums
>???
random numbers don't exist. unspook yourself. and no, nature can't either, read descartes.

>> No.16311882

>>16309957
There is no randomness in nature, show me one single thing, or collection of things, that are random in nature, you can't.
Nature is not random, reality is not random, behind every force and matter there lies some mathematical truth or physical law that made it stick. Randomness, as defined by you, is a human construct.
So why should randomness be the evidence of free will ? How can something that only exists in your head prove something that only exists in your head ? You're talking nonsense.

>> No.16313037

>>16310241
Either I make it big soon or life isnt worth living. I don't care about being modestly comfortable in my 60s.

>> No.16313043

>>16309998
>t. Literally Elliot Roger

>> No.16313059

>>16310527
yup
mathematical platonism and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

>> No.16313125

>>16310527
>humans can't gen random nums
flip a coin
>comps can't gen random nums
make it flip a coin

>> No.16313137

>>16309998
Playing the lottery once a week is the correct way.

>> No.16313144
File: 91 KB, 386x251, 1592986273948.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16313144

>>16309957
Is this a Sherlock thing?

>> No.16313174

>>16309998
You should play the lottery to test your luck skill yet don't make a vice of it and spend all your income on it.

>> No.16313217

>>16313125
deterministic chaos is not random

>> No.16313225

>>16310019
>one by one
>coming up with additional constraints constrains the mind
Woooooaaaaaaaahhhh

>> No.16313248

>>16313217
Also randomness isn't the precondition of free will.
The freedom to only choose between two choices is still absolute free will. If it is applied, just as our will is free to choose we are also free to not choose freely, most of the time we don't exert free will but go with the flow of our irrational soul.

>> No.16313489

>>16313217
define random as deterministic chaos
as everybody else ever
or maybe because you feel it should mean something else it doesn't exist?
Let me define farts as solid opaque cubes of 1m^3 cubic form and lo the fools claiming I produced a fart, such a thing cannot exit my ass.

>> No.16313741

>>16309975
>>what is the actual definition of randomness?
a human convention

>> No.16313779
File: 49 KB, 685x579, 1593215496691.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16313779

>>16309998
>Even my previous investments were a waste of time and don't provide enough. I spend all remaining income on lottery tickets. If things don't turn around in a few more years it's over for me.
if you understood that a bull run was necessarily happening in 2008, you would be a millionaire

>> No.16313826

>>16309973
Do you mean ALUs are incapable of generating random numbers? Sure but that's not really relevant you can have sensors that detect thermal noise or what have you to generate true random numbers.

>> No.16313853

>>16310527
Randomness do exist.
No matter which interpretation of quantum dynamics you go by, except for the ones proven wrong, there is true randomness.
Solutions like many worlds are deterministic but which universe you end up in is random and probabilistic.

>> No.16313934

>>16309957
>Is this evidence that free will is an illusion

No, it's evidence that fatal systems of logic like numbers are a bad tool for examining free will. Same problem in physics, imo. Physicists and most other properly trained scientists are using math and math-like logic to examine themselves, and can't find certain elements of the world... which I think are being weeded out by the nature of the math itself.

Like making a machine that thinks about bubbles, then pointing it at a system which contains both bubbles and fish, and then saying there's no such thing as fish.

>> No.16314934

>>16313043
He wasted his money on the big jackpots and also wanted shit like fancy cars and women. I don't. I just want fairly decent amount of money to have agency and control over my life.

>> No.16314974

>>16313043
Reading him, it's nothing like me. Also looks like he was already well off, his parents were wealthy and gave him a stipend of sorts. I never had this and if I did I sure as hell wouldn't have a reason to gamble.

>> No.16314991

>>>/sci/

>> No.16315002

8456689673659906896777886362864537586890758608975878807894678580567679494467

There, I did it

>> No.16315006

>>16309973
Digital computers. It's an open question whether quantum computers can implement a genuine RNG. The fundamental probabilistic nature of quantum states allows you to harness that noise to possibly introduce genuine randomness.

>Is this evidence that free will is an illusion? If we had complete free will it should be easy to come up with unforced random numbers, since it's such an inconsequential task.

Randomness is not the same as free will. Someone with Tourettes syndrome is prone to spontaneous, unplanned behavior, but they are not any freer because of it. They are in the grips of a determined process that causes them to display randomized impulsive behavior.

>> No.16315149
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16315149

>>16309957
By your (retarded) metric, a literal rod of uranium emitting radiations at random intervals would have more free will than any living being.

>> No.16315305

>>16310180
What if I sit on my keyboard?

>> No.16315353

>>16315305
The pressure applied does not hit the keys randomly.

>> No.16315411

>>16309957
Casanova once spoke with an excellent prose writer in France, who told him that the method was to write out twelve sentences at a time and then eliminate poetic tendecies and cutesy format traps or repetitive patterns. Couldn't a human not only write out an attempt at random numbers and then, like, proofread it?