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/lit/ - Literature

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16298270 No.16298270 [Reply] [Original]

I was reading Don Quixote and the amount of how much men tried to get a woman was astounding. They would make sonnets and literally cry their eyes out about how beautiful the woman was, how virtuous and so on.
Nowadays these things are absent so a man has to lie, or just treat her as a cum dumpster, because that is what feminism turned them into, which they think is a function of the patriarchy.
Is Don Quixote historically accurate for its portrayal of courtship or is it just a work of fiction and men didn't do that back then either?

>> No.16298271

>>16298270
Romance language countries have always been filled with total simps bro.

>> No.16298284

incel

>> No.16298290

>>16298284
where's the lie though?

>> No.16298315

>>16298290
it doesn't matter. you read books. why would you read if you have a sex life? you don't.

>> No.16298328

>>16298315
it is possible to read books and have sex.

>> No.16298335

>>16298315
Having sex sounds like shit

>> No.16298341

>>16298328
possible, uh yes if you have a low sex drive or are doing it for career reasons or pseud cred. otherwise you don't. likely? no

>> No.16298349

>>16298335
even normal incels masturbate which works to unless they have a low sex drive. it is only the deranged semen retention dipshits i see unironically fucking read. tell me why should I read when I can mastrbate to 1080p porn for 4 to 5 times in a row for 5 hours and if I'm still awake, I can just watch TV or game. reading is a cope by incels without a sex drive usually on SSRIs.

>> No.16298405

Don’t ever post on my board again without my permission, fuckface. If I see you around one more time I’ll smash your teeth in.
Consider this warning a kindness.

>> No.16298435

>>16298349
A book read stays read, while a pleasurable experience does not remain experienced.

>> No.16298444

>>16298349
Mostly those small quiet moments where you have a sense of well-being and illumination.

>> No.16298454

>>16298270
>Is Don Quixote historically accurate for its portrayal of courtship
please provide excerpts anon

>> No.16298456

>>16298270
Don Quijote is a chivalric satire

>> No.16298459
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16298459

>>16298284
>>16298315

>> No.16298466

>>16298270
The romantic scenes in Don Quixote are based on pastoral poetry and contemporary criticism, they're purely literary creations

>> No.16298481

>>16298459
>CHUD
What is this? Never heard it and my gf doesn’t know it either, despite being a woman.

>> No.16298483

>>16298481
it's the past tense of chad

>> No.16298490

>>16298483
Damn, never considered that Chads can fall from grace... a fate worse than death, I’m sure.

>> No.16298601

>>16298270
Yes, female chastity used to be valued and enforced by society. For obvious, sensible practical reasons.

>> No.16298710

>>16298456
This. Take your impertinences elsewhere, OP. You're romanticizing satire.

Cervantes would be proud, though.

>> No.16298837

>>16298270
Men of old didn't know any better. But modern men have wisened up, women are nothing but leeches there to suck out your money, your time and your energy and life force.

>> No.16298937

>>16298454
this

>> No.16298989

>>16298270
I wonder if the people of the 24th century will look at our soap operas and think that it was an accurate representation of 21st century 'courtship' or relationships

>> No.16299008

>>16298989
>ayo bitch, gimmie some head

>> No.16299086

>>16298481
it's what chapocels say because they cant say faggot or retard

>> No.16299168

>>16299008
>Come, my droog, my dear chevoshka, quit with the creeching and sloosh that fine rot on my in-out-in-out glazz-defiler, and we’ll have ourselves a good veck horrorshow, shall we?

>> No.16299224
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16299224

>>16298270
is this bait? the joke in Don Quijote is often on Don Qiujote himself for thinking drunkards are noblemen and brothel whores are virtuous ladies. you guys are all Don Quijotes and Cervantes is having a laugh on you from beyond his grave.

>> No.16299571

>>16298270
This was written when society worked as it should. Women have always been the muse, the object that inspired some men to do great things. Sure there are still a few men that do things simply for greatness, or to advance a field and so on, but the majority of men were driven by women. By desire. Now that they aren't worth placing on the pedestal, they grow goalless and just seem to stop functioning. Simply that.

>> No.16299574

>>16299224
The pastoral interludes are played completely straight. Haven't you read it?

>> No.16299585

>>16298349
>>16298315
>why should I read when I can mastrbate to 1080p porn for 4 to 5 times in a row for 5 hours and if I'm still awake, I can just watch TV or game

I don't feel drained after reading a book, and it improves my writing (which is rewarding on its own).
If I jerk off 4 or 5 times in a row, I feel exhausted and unable to do stuff. I also accomplished and learned nothing of value.
TV/vidya is good if story-driven versus mindless pleasure. But most of it (reality tv, call of duty) is not.

Reading lets me understand myself more, and understand others more. Is it as directly useful to my career as actually doing work or studying a textbook? No, but it's better than film or vidya.

>> No.16299618

>>16298435
>pleasurable experience does not remain experienced.
it does though? And are you saying reading books isn't a pleasurable experience?

>> No.16299623

Based pastora Marcela stomping on simps and incels 400 years ago.

>> No.16299625

>>16299574
yeah yeah sure alright and all, what I meant was OP rambling on about how women are cheap and men weren't all flirtatious liars or using women back then, as if it was all about manhood and chivalry in Quijote's time. well, one of the messages of that damn book is that the age of chivalry was long gone, if it ever existed in the first place. hence, a world in which a loser hidalgo calls him Don Chad and all of sudden is playing knight.

>> No.16299678

>>16299224
don quijote was supposed to be ridiculous but he ended up being grandiose and based. cervantes got btfoed by his own character

>> No.16299789

>>16298270
You describe only the actions of men up until the word "feminism." If all the dominoes before that point were men, then men are to blame for your anguish, not women, and if still you think that a woman ought only be a doll to receive compliments, then get on with it and buy a doll; dump your cum in it as you complain women are too much like cum dumpsters and not enough like dolls, maybe then you will see the contradiction.

>> No.16299808

>>16298270
It's making fun of the courtly and knightly romance. It's presented as ridiculous and over the top. You are romanticising a parody of romanticism.

>> No.16299820

>>16298328
>>16298341
I took a course in "sex-reading" -- learning to read while simultaneously fucking my girlfriend -- and I was able to go through War and Peace in the 20 minutes it took to achieve orgasm. It's about Russia.

>> No.16299850

>>16298290
Mostly this.
>these things are absent so a man has to lie, or just treat her as a cum dumpster, because that is what feminism turned them into, which they think is a function of the patriarchy.

>> No.16300137

>>16298270
>Is Don Quixote historically accurate
Jesus Christ.

>> No.16300252

>>16298270
I think u aren't thinking nuanced. in romantic countries there is also a machismo where they slap women around and treat then like housewives and shit. im sure they also write poems and do gay shit still. there are so many people in the world and culture is so diluted that it cannot be pin pointed whether or not girls need to be treated like cum dumpsters anymore. maybe is you who attracts the whores of babylon and I who attracts perfection. fag

>> No.16301391

>>16299618
it's the pleasure of the mind, what remains are the new wrinkles of the brain, an orgams goes in and out, just like taking a shit, actually taking a shit remains longer, I think I need to go

>> No.16301712

>>16298270
>Is Don Quixote historically accurate for its portrayal of courtship or is it just a work of fiction and men didn't do that back then either?
it's the latter, Cervantes even makes fun of this type of literature in his Coloquio de los perros, BTFOing even himself

>> No.16301757
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16301757

>>16298349
>this coomer anon has been going on a one-man crusade against reading on the only 4chan board devoted to reading

>> No.16301760

>>16298270
bruh bon iver is doing the same shit now

>> No.16301779

>>16298454
>>16298456
>>16298466
>>16298710
>>16298989
>>16299224
>>16299571
>>16299623
>>16299625
>>16299808
Did any of you guys even read the book?
Sometimes Don Quijote is delirious and he sees dumb shit like Altisidora crying for him, etc. but there are other things that are presented as "normal" like Don Fernando who courted the villager with tears, gifts, etc. which is what OP was referring too. if my memory serves correctly the same thing happened with the boy who died that was in love with Marcela, he cried, begged, confessed his love, wrote sonnets, etc. for her as well.
How are any of these portions satire? Altisidora, the inn whore and Dulcinea are clearly satire, the others seem to sort of reflect how courtship used to work in 16th-17th century spain

>> No.16301809

>>16301779
Its not just even part of the book. if you read period sources, romanticism and honor where big parts of peoples lives.

>> No.16301819

>>16301809
got any suggestions?
genuinely interested

>> No.16301845

>>16301819
Yah, there are aphoristic sources, like if you look at the french king's royal musketeers, they literally had to stop them from charging more often then not due to the esprit de corp of the young nobles. And thats just in france. Spain was just, if not even more honor focused. look at playwrites of the times, or biographies.

>> No.16301848

>>16301845
I have plenty of spanish playwrites in my backlog, I'll get around to reading them later but what biographies do you recommend?

>> No.16301851

>>16301845
>>16301819
around 1600 especially.

>> No.16301885

>>16301851
Actually, now that I remember, one of the most telling works about how this actually was the norm would be from Grisel y Mirabella from Juan de Flores, where Brazayda was accusing men of doing exactly what the OP is describing as a way to cour twomen

>> No.16301915

>>16298349
>I can just watch TV or game.
>you browse a board with people like this

>> No.16301933

>>16299585
>TV/vidya is good if story-driven versus mindless pleasure.
Story-driven =/= Good stories.

>> No.16301936

>>16301885
Also didn't schopenhauer dedicate a part of his aphoristic writings on shitting on this type of honor?

>> No.16301952

In conclusion, yes, men used to be massive simps but women were chaste maidens worth simping form
/thread

>> No.16301970

Why would you read this book and take all this shit from it? Calm down when you sit down to read mate

>> No.16302017

>>16301970
Like those chapters where Cervantes low key calls muslims a bunch of faggots kek

>> No.16302028
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16302028

>>16298270
Why are anglo automatoids so incapable of interpretation. Did you not understand that his courtship of Dulcinea was a mockery of exactly what you're talking about?
There is no Dulcinea. She is just an idealized lady this guy lives and dies for like an idiot, and they can't even find a woman with that name where she supposedly lives. The whole point is also that it is a platonic thing, where she supposedly has never seen him.

>> No.16302030

>>16302028
did you even read the fucking book

>> No.16302048

>>16302030
What I'm saying is exactly what happens you fucking shit brained motherfucker. I read the entire thing in Spanish. Stop doubling down on your bluff you fucking moron.

>> No.16302060

>>16302048
Oh so you're just a retard incapable of comprehension?
Did OP say it was DON QUIJOTE who was doing these things or that it was MEN as in plural MEN doing these things????
It's the latter in case you dont understand my rhetorical question you stupid dumbass, what the fuck is a pea-brained retard like you doing reading a work like Don Quijote if you can't even understand basic questions? then you also have the gall to call angloids automatons when you cant even understand a simple fucking statement.

>> No.16302072

>>16302060
Post the passages where all these "men" are doing it. Go on.

>> No.16302077

>>16302072
I'm not going to post shit. Go look up the chapters about Don Fernando and Marcela again and you'll understand exactly what the OP is referring to.

>> No.16302096

>>16302077
Also the crazy guy, forgot his name but the guy who Fernando was basically cucking after he cucked the lady he courted.
The book is plastered with this kind of thing, and not only Don Quijote but the entirety of Cervantes' corpus has this type of stuff occuring.
Anyway it doesn't matter, you're a pea-brained retard who can't understand simple statements so it's all moot.

>> No.16302125
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16302125

>>16302096
>>16302077
>Entire book is dedicated to making a mockery and exaggerate chivalry-like behavior.
>"ArE ThESE CHiValRy TrOpEs HiStoRiCaLLy AcCuRaTe?"
A billion cultures, not only european, had this type of behavior described, especially for high classes. If you didn't get one of the central messages of Don Quijote being the mockery and the vapidness of these things I'm not sure what you thought you understood about this book.

>> No.16303205

>>16301936
Yes but of course these plebeians have yet to read Schopenhauer.

>> No.16303236

>>16298270
chivalry was more about impressing the father than anything else.