wait so dialectical materialism is just... class tensions forming social development? i thought this was supposed to be the left's heavy hitter, what happened?

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Anonymous Thu Sep 3 22:28:59 2020 No.16282190 [Reply] [Original]

wait so dialectical materialism is just... class tensions forming social development? i thought this was supposed to be the left's heavy hitter, what happened?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 22:38:17 2020 No.16282230 File: 1.32 MB, 2000x2000, taochaching.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16282190 >the left >baseball ngmi

Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:01:18 2020 No.16282338

>>16282190
The 19th century was when the ideological left of today was "born", and it was also coincidentally, the century that the modern day left completely shit the bed philosophically. Their ideology was about tearing down systems, tearing down inherent meaning, tearing down morality, and basically complete self-destruction, and we know now the reason why, because when you take god out of the equation it only creates a person filled with anger and misery. This is because humans are naturally religious and so they cling to the ideology that drives them, that being far leftism which hasn't taught them to build or be responsible or be rationale but to be angry and to destroy. So in a sense, the modern left created Satan.

Carl Jung was smart enough to realize this, partly why the left hates him.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:06:15 2020 No.16282361 >>16282338 >ideology guess you ain't heard of power, huh, lil tookie?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:10:04 2020 No.16282375 >>16282361 I have. The sun has power over you since you rely on it to heat our planet and grow our crops. You going to go jump into the sun and liberate us from it you stupid piece of shit?

Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:18:54 2020 No.16282411

>>16282338
EDITORS NOTE: I do not mean God strictly in the literal sense but also the metaphorical. The sense of something greater than us, the idea of personal purpose for which we are unique and separate from the collective of humanity. I'm not saying humanity needs a literal God, as Taoist belief has no central belief in God, but rather that the concept of "God" can be stretched to be something more akin to a universal energy that we all share and take part in.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:20:50 2020 No.16282424 >>16282375 LMFAO fuck off to your cuck shed and reflect on your life holy shit hahahaha

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:22:15 2020 No.16282433 >>16282424 That's what I thought, soiboi, go back to raising your limp arm in the air and lighting garbage piles on fire you worthless scum.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:24:48 2020 No.16282445 >>16282433 hope your cuck shed has a Mau-Mau closet and it's sturdy cuz we wilin

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:29:05 2020 No.16282460 >>16282433 woah put this one on a watchlist hope your social credit real tall

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:30:38 2020 No.16282467 >>16282190 >This is the power of the dark enlightenment how come Dr. Yakub put so many bulbs on dimmer switches?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:45:23 2020 No.16282551 The lower classes and their frivolities

Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:55:10 2020 No.16282596

>>16282190
It's not a heavy hitter by any means. It's an ideological almost religious document which attracts a cult like following. It's a time full of pretty opulent language, obvious uninteresting truths, and some bullshit mixed with speculations. It's basically Dianetics, and is popular for the same reason.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 3 23:59:06 2020 No.16282617 >>16282190 >be OP >finally open book for more than 10 seconds >learn something >immediately stop reading to post what was learned on 4chan's literature board

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:36:51 2020 No.16283267 File: 125 KB, 601x1024, marx was a failure.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:45:23 2020 No.16283287

This is a bad pol bait thread and yet I'm replying. Why does everyone that complains about marx not understand marx? Kapital's utility grew from the analytical framework of dialectical materialism. Historical analysis of power structures and the like is a useful tool in deciding how society is shaped and how it subsequently should be shaped.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:49:09 2020 No.16283299 >>16283287 How the fuck could he think that the historical march of society was determined materially, when his retarded ideology seems to have single-handedly changed the world for the worse by itself? Marxism proves itself wrong.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:50:12 2020 No.16283302 >>16283287 >Historical analysis of power structures and the like is a useful tool in deciding how society is shaped and how it subsequently should be shaped. that's the narrative of the secular humanists

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:50:44 2020 No.16283303 >>16283299 Wow, got me, friend. Guess I better just pack up and go kill myself.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:53:05 2020 No.16283312 >>16283287 Why do /pol/fags hate Marxism so much? Under capitalism, jews always win

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:53:32 2020 No.16283315 >>16283303 >Wow, got me, friend. Guess I better just pack up and go kill myself. I mean, unless you can resolve the contradiction, by all means get necked.

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:53:49 2020 No.16283316

Cope as much as your little Marxist brain wants to cope, but Russell was right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZlbQqXBsn0

In your heart, you know he was right. It sounds very simple, but he is correct.
I believe Aristotle would probably have agreed.

Russell's description of his encounter with Lenin is also worth listening to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TK9c-caEcw

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:55:24 2020 No.16283325 >>16283299 >changed the world for the worse by itself How so? Russia was better off under Soviet rule. Hell even America was better off with the Soviets around, neolibs didn’t become so blatantly evil until afterwards

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:56:53 2020 No.16283328 >>16283316 >Russell Anon...

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:58:13 2020 No.16283334 >>16283312 Marxism is secular jewish religion, retard. You make it seem like the only alternative to capitalism is communism. It's not.

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:59:15 2020 No.16283340

>>16283325

Nigga, I'm just trying to point out that Marx changing the world through pure ideology negates the idea that material conditions are the sole determinant of "history".

If Marx's contentions were true, he wouldn't have been able to influence history with his ideology in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:59:37 2020 No.16283343 >>16282190

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 02:59:50 2020 No.16283345

>>16283315
It's not a contradiction. The materialist analysis analyzes material conditions, as opposed to the way Hegel would resolve real phenomena as an essence or a platonic form. He spent a good chunk of capital expanding upon what we now see as the modern idea of ideology. It's not like he was saying ideas do nothing. God damn it, read Kapital. Read Wikipedia. Read a cliff notes. Jesus christ read anything that'll make you stop strawmanning and shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:00:07 2020 No.16283347 >>16283334 It is? Also fascism is just capitalism on steroids

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:00:15 2020 No.16283349
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>>16283312
It's third position or a scorched earth.

The commie vanguard would have to defeat capitalism (everything is capitalism) and reactionaries (any opposition is reactionary) across the entire world before it magically disappears and forms the commie utopia. It's a fairtyale for mouthbreathers.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:00:48 2020 No.16283352 >>16283347 Facism is just capitalism with a better control of aesthetics.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:00:51 2020 No.16283353 >>16283334 So deluded lmao, Marxism is the only counter to kike liberalism. Continue being a useful idiot

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:01:23 2020 No.16283357 >>16283345 What did he write on ideology in capital besides commodity fetishism?

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:01:31 2020 No.16283358

>>16283328
Yes, exactly. One of the most famous mathematicians of the 20th century, the great friend of Einstein, T.S. Eliot, Joseph Conrad, Whitehead and Kurt Godel. The man whom Borges considered one of his favorite authors. Also a Lord, a knight, and an important political, intellectual, and public figure, besides being a best-selling author, a polyglot and a Nobel Prize winner.

Problem?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:01:37 2020 No.16283360 >>16283340 Your an idiot. Marx said that philsoophers have only interpreted the word and now he is going to change it. Marx would be incredibly happy that his ideology is still alive and influenced major countries

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:02:40 2020 No.16283366

>>16283345
>He spent a good chunk of capital expanding upon what we now see as the modern idea of ideology.

With an ideology that conveniently avoids defining itself as an ideology by defining ideology as something that excludes its own definition.

Marx is one big pile of self-referencing bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:02:45 2020 No.16283367 >>16283358 Yes, he was a retarded faggot

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:03:02 2020 No.16283369

>>16283357
Why do I have to spoon feed you wikipedia articles
>In the Marxist base and superstructure model of society, base denotes the relations of production and modes of production, and superstructure denotes the dominant ideology (i.e. religious, legal, political systems). The economic base of production determines the political superstructure of a society. Ruling class-interests determine the superstructure and the nature of the justifying ideology—actions feasible because the ruling class control the means of production. For example, in a feudal mode of production, religious ideology is the most prominent aspect of the superstructure, while in capitalist formations, ideologies such as liberalism and social democracy dominate. Hence the great importance of the ideology justifying a society; it politically confuses the alienated groups of society via false consciousness.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:03:41 2020 No.16283372 >>16283347 No it's not. Both communism and capitalism are inherently materialist, fascism isn't. >>16283353 Then why are most communists jews You're the useful idiot for big capital, retard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:04:05 2020 No.16283376 >>16283369 As far as I remember he didn't use the term superstructure in Capital. Have you even read it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:07:07 2020 No.16283392 >>16283372 I think you are a retard who still thinks liberals are communists.

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:08:02 2020 No.16283397

>>16283376
Do you have a source on that?

Source?

A source. I need a source.

Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.

No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered.

You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence.

Do you have a degree in that field?

A college degree? In that field?

Then your arguments are invalid.

No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation.

Correlation does not equal causation.

CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION.

You still haven't provided me a valid source yet.

Nope, still haven't.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:08:26 2020 No.16283400 >>16283392 Nope I know the difference, now answer the question: if marxism is the only counter to kike liberalism, why are most marxists kikes?

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:09:17 2020 No.16283407

>>16283367
Oh, so that's your problem with Russell.
I suppose that T.S. Eliot, Albert Einstein, John Dewey, Whitehead, Joseph Conrad, Jean Paul Sartre, Jorge Luis Borges, George Steiner, Nassim Taleb, were all admirers of a ''retarded faggot'', then.

Meanwhile, you, the Mighty Anon, is certainly immune to falling into such traps!

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:09:37 2020 No.16283410 >>16283400 Literally only Trotskyists are jews and they are liberals

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:09:37 2020 No.16283411 >>16283372 Fascism in theory interests me as one of the only non-materialist directions for a 21st century nation to possibly take, but it's always exclusively supported by absolutely retarded /pol/acks and worthless white trash

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:10:18 2020 No.16283415 >>16283400 >why are most marxists kikes? Loaded question and untrue. China doesnt have any jews and still have marxist leninism as their ideology

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:11:11 2020 No.16283420 >>16283407 It’s pretty hilarious that you put Talib in that list unironically

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:12:12 2020 No.16283424 >>16283400 You should look into how Stalin pretty much permanently fixed that problem lol

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:14:52 2020 No.16283434

>>16283410
Might want to read some more on the history of the ideology before you post nonsense.

>>16283415
In the west, retard. Also chinese aren't marxists. Why are most marxists/communists in Europe and the US jews?

>>16283424
Stalin wasn't a Marxist either and although I don't agree with him he was pretty based.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:16:37 2020 No.16283443 >>16283411 Those are larpers, there are many normal ones out there.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:18:19 2020 No.16283447 >>16283420 It's written ''Taleb''. ''You changed the way I view the world'' - Daniel Kahneman, the most respected modern psychologist (a thousand miles more important than Freud), to Taleb, during a talk they had a few years ago

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:18:33 2020 No.16283449 >>16283411 Time to embrace hyperfacism. Or make up your own category, its what all the cool kids do.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:18:37 2020 No.16283451 >>16283434 Jews being overrepresented in academia means every ideology's theory is disproportionately authored by Jews. Every Jewish communist has a Dennis Prager counterbalancing them to say communism is the greatest evil imaginable.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:18:46 2020 No.16283452 File: 372 KB, 281x288, slavloss.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>16283434 >Trotsky was a Marxist >Stalin wasn't a Marxist

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:20:05 2020 No.16283462 >>16283447 Are you actually him lol

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:20:34 2020 No.16283464 >>16283451 Except for fascism. Which makes fascism the only viable alternative to 'kike liberalism'. Communism and capitalism are two sides of the same shekel.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:20:48 2020 No.16283465 >>16283449 That's why I alternate wildly between Strasserism and anarchoprimitivism depending on my mood and the last book I read

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:21:54 2020 No.16283473 >>16283464 Fascism is literally just replacing Jewish capitalists with desirable capitalists and then saying job done like the capitalists won’t just act like jews

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:22:37 2020 No.16283474 No one actually wanted to talk about Marx, they just wanted a thread jannies wouldn’t delete to have a safe space to talk about fascism instead of literature.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:23:15 2020 No.16283478 >>16283473 Commie propaganda. Don't speak if you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:23:25 2020 No.16283480 >>16283464 Fascists aren't out writing theory at all anymore, that's why. The closest you can get is shit like Dugin. I've heard James Mason is either Jewish or fetishizes them, if you'd consider Siege anything comparabke to fascist theory.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:25:57 2020 No.16283498 >>16283480 No you're just not aware of it. The closest you get is third position, not fourth. James Mason is a glowie if there ever was one.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:26:35 2020 No.16283499 >>16283498 So where is the fascist theory?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:28:45 2020 No.16283508 >>16283499 Not in academia or regular bookstores, obviously. Also there's not as much need for new 'theory' because the old still suffices, as opposed to communism which can't ever keep up with the times.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:28:47 2020 No.16283509 >>16283499 Moldbug

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:31:33 2020 No.16283519 >>16283462 No, that quote is on YouTube. The talk was filmed. It's actually very interesting. You should watch it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:33:23 2020 No.16283524 >>16283509 Mencius "New State will be a Jew State" Moldbug who actually proposes the most extreme neoliberalism possible with full privatization?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:38:24 2020 No.16283544 >>16283316 >NOOOOO NOT MY BOURGEOISIENERO YOUR PHILOSOPHY MUST BE INSPIRED BY KIND FEELINGS OTHERWISE IT'S NOT VALID

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:38:55 2020 No.16283546

>>16283447
>''You changed the way I view the world'' - Daniel Kahneman, the most respected modern psychologist (a thousand miles more important than Freud), to Taleb, during a talk they had a few years ago
if taleb changed his life, he was a hugely braindead intellectual to begin with. No wonder you like him

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:41:08 2020 No.16283559 >>16283508 >China still rocking communism >Germany and Italy btfo’d and anons still can’t believe it 80 years later

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:49:27 2020 No.16283581 >>16283559 >China Has fully embraced capitalism >Germany and Italy Could only be taken down by the combined forces of capitalism and communism while being themselves autarchic. Try again, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 03:55:14 2020 No.16283602 >>16283581 Still taken down tho lol

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 04:00:11 2020 No.16283618 >>16283602 What they were able to achieve in mere years has never again been replicated. And China (and about every other communist state) still ended up capitalist.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 04:13:00 2020 No.16283655 >>16283618 It’s their fault they let capitalism and subsequently neoliberalism win

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 4 05:55:53 2020 No.16283886 >>16283340 You really think materialism materials as physical stuff?? Lmaooo

Anonymous Fri Sep 4 07:05:00 2020 No.16284022

>>16282338
>The 19th century was when the ideological left of today was "born"
>neoconservative pretends that the enlightenment has nothing to do with it
Cringe, the universalist egalitarian humanism first expressed in liberalism was established long before the communist leftists

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/lit/ - Literature