/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16263207]

I can think of very few things more useless than fucking stoicism

[Anonymous No.16263215]

>>16263207
Many people have found it very useful anon

[Anonymous No.16263224]

>>16263207
>dude just stop feeling if someone's fucking your ass in prison

[Anonymous No.16263240]

Yet you made a thread about it.

[Anonymous No.16263245]

>>16263224
Hot uwu

[Anonymous No.16263249]

>>16263224
This, but unironically

[Anonymous No.16263281]

>>16263224
I could fuck w that

[Anonymous No.16263297]

>mfw I restrained myself from being emotionally triggered by OP's absolute garbage opinion

[Anonymous No.16263309]

>>16263297
Cope

[Anonymous No.16263334]

>>16263297
based

[Anonymous No.16263391]

>>16263297
Cope

[Anonymous No.16263403]

[Anonymous No.16263426]

"He who is not angry, whereas he has cause to be, sins. For unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices, it fosters negligence, and incites not only the wicked but even the good to do wrong." - Chrysostom, Opus Imperfectum

[Anonymous No.16263443]

>>16263207
I love Marcus :(

[Anonymous No.16263622]

>>16263426
There are useful outlets of anger and there are useless outlets of anger. Emotions are biological shortcuts and are not always correct. Speaking from my own life, most of the poor decisions I've made were based in emotion.

[Anonymous No.16263631]

I can.
>men

[Anonymous No.16263643]

>>16263207
Why not just convince yourself pain is and actually pleasing? No need to ignore or reduce your estimation of it.

[Anonymous No.16263651]

>>16263643
I didn’t mean for that “and” to be there. Typed it out by accident

[Anonymous No.16263682]

>>16263622
I don’t think I’ve ever made a logical decision. Every move I make is based on what I felt, what I’m feeling or what I might feel.

[Anonymous No.16263686]

>>16263207
I don't think it's so bad

[Anonymous No.16263740]

“Suck it up, stop feeling, don’t think about it” sums up a lot of what famous stoics have written. It might work for people who have simple emotions and desires or for those who are more prone to using reason in general. Anyone who actually experiences the dreadful and melancholic nature of life will find no use for it

[Anonymous No.16263759]

>>16263207
Stoicism is poisonous to art

[Anonymous No.16263776]

>>16263643
I do this when I'm in severe pain. Well try to.

[Jesus No.16263892]

>>16263224
love your assfucker like yourself.

[Anonymous No.16264008]

>>16263426
A young Man had been caught in a daring act of theft and had been condemned to be executed for it. He expressed his desire to see his Mother, and to speak with her before he was led to execution, and of course this was granted. When his Mother came to him he said: "I want to whisper to you," and when she brought her ear near him, he nearly bit it off. All the bystanders were horrified, and asked him what he could mean by such brutal and inhuman conduct. "It is to punish her," he said. "When I was young I began with stealing little things, and brought them home to Mother. Instead of rebuking and punishing me, she laughed and said: "It will not be noticed." It is because of her that I am here to-day."

"He is right, woman," said the Priest; "the Lord hath said:

"Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old he will not depart therefrom."

-Aesop's Fables

[Anonymous No.16264021]

>>16264008
Jesus Aesop really was a retard

[Anonymous No.16264068]

>>16263740
I feel like it's a mindset that's only applicable to someone who has given up on living. You shut off your feelings to persevere through pain which is a great skill, but if you live your whole life doing that to succeed then it will not make you happy. What is the point of success if you are miserable and empty? I think that someone who relies on stoicism has defined success incorrectly.

[Anonymous No.16264176]

>>16263224
In that situation, do you have a better idea?

[Anonymous No.16264178]

>>16264008
bit on the nose isn't it

[Anonymous No.16264185]

>>16263740
Tell me how my emotional ass can start to cope and move on.

[Anonymous No.16264200]

>>16263207
He wrote this right after a niece, big lump of raw opium, given to him by his physician, Galen.
It's not a meme. His physician's records survived. He was given opium every single day.

[Anonymous No.16264216]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if the Stoic approach is to just "don't care about it" when faced with the misery of life, then I'm having a hard time seeing how this is a valid approach. To just accept that shit's fucked, you can't do anything about it so just keep your head down. Seems a very dispirited philosophy.

[Anonymous No.16264229]

>>16264216
>Seems a very dispirited philosophy.
Because it is.

[Anonymous No.16264262]

>>16264229
Reminder that Nietzsche was in favour of Stoic askesis

>>16264216
It is dispirited but there's still valuable lessons to take from it. I say don't discard it in its entirety

[Anonymous No.16264273]

Hating on stoicism is funny cause youre just playing your hand as a highly distressed emotional wreck while chads oppose you unreactively

[Anonymous No.16264277]

>>16264008
based

[Anonymous No.16264279]

>>16264216
stoicism doesn't necessarily mean to just accept that shittyness of life, just that you shouldn't curl up into the fetal position on the ground when faced with the challenges of life. accept that life is about labour and being uncomfortable.

[Anonymous No.16264282]

>>16263207
You need to master empathy and apathy in life. Stoicism (if practiced regularly) will help you on the apathy part

[Anonymous No.16264327]

>>16264200
Meh, doesnt seem particularly druggy.

[Anonymous No.16264353]

>>16264262
>Nietzsche was in favour of Stoic askesis
Only towards certain goals, not as a lifestyle.

[Anonymous No.16264358]

>>16264327
I think what he's trying to say is that it's easy to avoid pain when you're hopped up on opiates all day.

[Anonymous No.16264361]

>>16264353
yes

[Anonymous No.16264376]

>>16264273
Yes, but show me a good Stoic artist. Just one. There is a good reason for hating on Stoicism, and it is to be found in loving art.

[Anonymous No.16264402]

>>16264376
Artists span the gamut of emotional attitudes. The meme that they're all bipolar and impulsive is simply a meme. One often used by amateur artists to cope with their lack of success I might add

[Anonymous No.16264406]

>>16263207
Stoicism works for a people with a certain temperament. It's definitely useless for everyone else.
The only people who praise stoicism in my life are people I know to be rather careless and unfeeling anyways.

There is even a MGTOW channel promoting stoicism which I find especially hilarious because OF COURSE that it's going to be the guys who can't or won't form any lasting attachments to women who end up promoting this absolute COPE of a philosophy.

Christianity is clearly superior to this.

[Anonymous No.16264417]

>>16264402
>Artists span the gamut of emotional attitudes
Right, which Stoicism doesn't promote. Stoicism, in practice, represses perception. Without perception, good artists have no material to work with, and they've always necessarily possessed a philosophy that is different from Stoicism on account of this, one that embraces perception and allows it to roam freely (often even its most painful aspects).

[Anonymous No.16264422]

>>16264358
The only part I would really believe he wrote while blazing opium would be that first chapter where he goes on for like 5 pages about what he learned from everyone in his entire life

[Anonymous No.16264426]

>>16264279
>life is about labour and being uncomfortable.
Then fuck life lmao

[Anonymous No.16264432]

>>16264417
Stoicism represses judgment, not perception. The roman stoics were clearly very perceptive people, it comes through in their writing.

[Anonymous No.16264435]

>>16264406
First paragraph
>haha agreed anon whatupp

Second paragraph
>uhmm../ maybe?

Final sentence
>wtf shut up

[Anonymous No.16264440]

>>16264432
Perception and judgment go hand in hand, especially for artists.

[Anonymous No.16264478]

>>16263297
based

[Anonymous No.16264480]

>>16264008
Reminder that there's retards who supports parents no matter how much they fucked their son's life. Including the vast majority of anons of 4chan.

[Anonymous No.16264490]

>>16264440
They are different things. Perception is awareness of information, judgment is the synthetic assignation of qualities to that information. And there is nothing that separates artists from other human beings except what they do with their time.

[Anonymous No.16264504]

>>16264279
>accept that life is about labour and being uncomfortable
Found the pimp jew.

[Anonymous No.16264510]

>>16264490
Makes sense. Swap out perception with judgment then. My point remains: good artists necessarily don't possess a philosophy that resembles Stoicism.

[Anonymous No.16264519]

>>16263207
Be me, have absolutely not reason to feel bad, still feel a constant sense of doom and sadness.

[Anonymous No.16264543]

>>16263207
say whatever you will, but its probably been the most useful philosophy to me for coping with life

[Anonymous No.16264552]

>>16264426
>>16264504
i mean what is the alternative? yes, you can always fucking kill yourselves, but if you aren't quite there yet, then how are you gonna live?

[Anonymous No.16264559]

>>16264519
Some people just have a melancholy nature.

[Anonymous No.16264683]

>>16264552
Hedonism

[Anonymous No.16264744]

>>16264552
Hedonism and/or Stoicism. Or you can just torture yourself with some retardations.

[Anonymous No.16264797]

>>16264552
I think betting rerroll exist so next time I get to live as a happy NPC.

[Anonymous No.16264810]

>>16263207
The only thing more despicable than Stoics are Utilitarians

[Anonymous No.16264833]

>>16264552
Selbstuberwindung NIGGAAA

[Anonymous No.16264861]

>>16264810
what's so despicable about stoicism?

[Anonymous No.16264923]

>>16263403
he wasn't stoic enough then

[Anonymous No.16265009]

>>16264510
This is very interesting anon, thank you

[Anonymous No.16265044]

>>16264435
>haha agreed anon whatupp
Hahaha, I'm happy you share my sentiments dear friend!

>uhmm../ maybe?
Yes, my friend, this was a personal anecdote from my experience of life that was totally just my own perception.

>wtf shut up
I will, but before I do, you must admit that Christianity at least promises eternal bliss and happiness in exchange for all your suffering, unlike stoicism which is like "meh the world sucks I guess but I will learn not to care".

[Anonymous No.16265048]

>>16263224
>>if you are distressed by anything external
>dude just stop feeling if someone's fucking your ass in prison
literally the definition of internal

[Anonymous No.16265081]

>>16264178
was the ear, not the nose lrn2read faggot

[Anonymous No.16265089]

>>16264861
Its anti-life qualities

[Anonymous No.16265092]

>>16264552
Personally I combine moderate hedonism with christianity.
This means that I indulge in legitimate pleasures I fancy as often as I can, but whenever I approximate what I perceive to be "too much" I go on an abstinence week. This is much easier since I got married because I no longer have to confess my sex life.

[Anonymous No.16265201]

Every stoic thread on lit:

>'muh just don't care if you're raped/wife cucked/family dies' and other meme strawmen
>people filtered by Stoicism and due to their superficial understanding oversimplify it as 'just don't feel bro like haha who cares if your wife dies' (don't actually read literature just come here essentially to shitpost and get their understanding of philosophy from reddit comics)

It's about recognising where human value actually lies, in the mind, independent of all fleshly things and selectively choosing what you want to place the foundation of your happiness on, it's not about diminishing joy, but about moving what it's dependent on onto stable ground (since the human mind has the capacity to get used to anything, it always return to a neutral state - e.g. if you rely on external things your joy will become dependent on them, if you live ascetically, your level of enjoyment will also stabilise and will be reliant on very little).
Once one acclimatises in this way to valuing their reason (virtue) and not caring about anything that lies beyond of themselves, that's when they are able to shrug off the deaths of their whole family/children/wives/friends and anything else that could happen, because they've made themselves reliant only on assured constants, so their bliss/enjoyment is uninterruptable.

Essentially the same as Plato's argument for living the virtuous life in Republic, desires for earthly things always returns to a neutral "grey-state", it will get used to extreme luxury or frugality, it's malleable (hence why pleasure and decadence never bring satisfaction, the brain normalises and you drown yourself in pleasure to keep ahead of the equalisation of dopamine). Only higher things (reasoning and philosophy in Plato's & the Stoic's case) are capable of escaping this in-escapable neutral state, since they are concerned with the higher parts of the soul and are not bound by physical things


>If…man’s life is ever worth the living, it is when he has attained this vision of the soul of beauty. And once you have seen it, you will never be seduced again by the charm of gold, of dress, of comely boys, you will care nothing for the beauties that used to take your breath away…and when one discerns this beauty one will perceive the true virtue, not virtue’s semblance. And when a man has brought forth and reared this perfect virtue, he shall be called the friend of god, and if ever it is capable of man to enjoy immortality, it shall then be given to him. (212d)

[Anonymous No.16265205]

>>16265201
>mind good body bad
Gay and discardpilled

[Anonymous No.16265212]

>>16265205
Are you your mind or your body, what happens if I put your brain in a jar and separate the two, where do you actually exist?

[Anonymous No.16265218]

>>16265048
it's external of the mind

[Anonymous No.16265229]

>>16263297
Based

[Anonymous No.16265238]

>>16265212
I'm both you fucking cunt.

[Anonymous No.16265246]

>>16265212
if i put you on a remote uninhabited island for ten years, would you still be the "same" person?

[Anonymous No.16265267]

>>16265201
>comely boys
Fag lmao

[Anonymous No.16265313]

>>16265212
In neither of them, for i am neither a brainless body nor a bodyless brain.

[Anonymous No.16265358]

I don't know what it is, but something about Stoicism acutely wounds the bugman, one always sees these spiteful and angry threads on lit, seldom do you scroll through the catalog without one of such threads. Maybe the idea of independence from physical/external things wounds him so much because the idea of it seems so unreachable to him, or maybe it's because the idea that you don't need any of the physical things that he's put so much value into is offensive to him and all his labours. I really don't know

[Anonymous No.16265374]

I don't know what it is, but something about Stoicism acutely wounds the bugman, one always sees these spiteful and angry threads on lit, seldom can you scroll through the catalog without spotting one of these threads, it's probably the most common thread subject on the site. Maybe the idea of independence from physical/external things wounds him so much because the idea of it seems so unreachable to him, or maybe it's because the idea that you don't need any of the physical things that he's put so much value into is offensive to him and all his labour. I really don't know

[Anonymous No.16265376]

>>16263297
cope and redpilled

[Anonymous No.16265393]

>>16263643
Masochist here. It's like a superpower or something. No I do not cut myself or whip myself while masturbating or engage in BDSM. But pain doesn't scare me or make me sad, it even makes me laugh sometimes.

[Anonymous No.16265480]

>>16265313
Yet you have the potential to be a bodyless brain, but not a brainless body. Therefore consciousness must reside in the brain
Come on, we aren't breaking new ground here, this shouldn't be disputed

[Anonymous No.16265498]

>>16265201
Based
>>16265374
I think they just project their failure to handle any type of emotional distress by blaming stoicism for not being the perfect unhappiness cure

[Anonymous No.16265523]

>>16265374
>reeing because people criticize stoicism for the worthless self help garbage that it is
not very stoic of you anon

[Anonymous No.16265566]

>>16265374
Incels don't want happiness they want revenge on a society they feel has wronged them.

[Anonymous No.16265608]

>>16263443
I love you too Frankie UwU

[Anonymous No.16265620]

>>16263740
T. Teenage Nihilist

[Anonymous No.16265665]

>>16265374
You are exactly right my gay friend.
What wounds us about stoicism is that it demands that we accept being wounded. It's like succumbing to enjoy being anally penetrated, despite out better instincts.
Truly, you have hit the nail in the head, we just don't enjoy being anally fucked.

[Anonymous No.16265709]

>>16263224
what would complaining and feeling sad about it achieve?

[Anonymous No.16265736]

>>16263224
/spbp

[Anonymous No.16265926]

>>16265665
But you're going to get fucked in the ass either way, the vicissitudes of fate will batter your "ship" regardless. Stoicism is just learning to keep your balance and to not be affected by the rocking of the proverbial ship, no matter how fierce the external storm, while your position would be something like being thrown off your feet by the waves, and then sperging out at the sea. You can't prevent the natural event of the storm anymore than you can the assault of fate, you can only insulate yourself against it and remain unaffected

[Anonymous No.16265941]

>>16265926
>>16265201
Based.

Stoicism isn't pacifist. It's about acting according to reason and not being a slave to emotion.

[Anonymous No.16266485]

>>16265608
:3

[Anonymous No.16266531]

>>16263426
I agree that Aristotelian ethics is far superior to Stoicism as well.

[Anonymous No.16266549]

>>16263224
I thought Aurelius was Roman not Greek.

[Anonymous No.16266569]

>>16263207
>feel X emotion
>come to the conclusion that it's tedious
>stop feeling X almost immediately
It's actually p great senpai

[Anonymous No.16266581]

>>16265212
The mind is part of the body, retard.

[Anonymous No.16266975]

>>16264504
What is life about then? Having fun? Having everything go your way?

[Anonymous No.16266976]

>>16263207
>To those human beings who are of any concern to me I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill-treatment, indignities—I wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust, the wretchedness of the vanquished: I have no pity for them, because I wish them the only thing that can prove today whether one is worth anything or not—that one endures.
If this quote shakes you to your being you cannot be a stoic. Stoicism is inherently reactive. It's a cope. Become angry when you need to become angry, repel ugliness when you see ugliness. Feel sad and let this sadness disorient you.

[Anonymous No.16266987]

>>16265941
>It's about acting according to reason and not being a slave to emotion.
Intuition and emotion guides you. What's reasonable to one man is contradictory to another. The realest things you know are your emotions, yourself.

[Anonymous No.16267021]

>>16263207
Stoicism is a form of learned helplessness.

[Anonymous No.16267740]

>>16267021
>t. doesn't understand what stoicism is
You probably thought that sounded smart huh

[Anonymous No.16268054]

>>16264279
why do you hate life? what is there not to love?

[Anonymous No.16268194]

>>16265620
t. privileged neurotypical suburban fag

[Anonymous No.16268221]

>>16263740
> Suck it up
Yes
>stop feeling
No
> don’t think about it
No
Stoics do not repress emotions. They contemplate the root of what they are feeling. Suppose I see another man with a beautiful women, and I get jealous. Why is that? Why do I care what he has? Why am I projecting my inadequacies onto this couple? A stoic doesn’t experience and emotion and say “I mustn’t feel!” They feel something and ask “why did that sensation occur”

[Anonymous No.16268236]

>>16264176
Kill myself with a self inflicted trachea collapse, and for good measure a nose slam against hard concrete thus preventing the irreversible stain of sodomy on my soul and preserve my eternity to be pleasing to God. Death is temporary. Virtue is eternal.

[Anonymous No.16268239]

All philosophies, all that can be said, are just like the porch of a palace. I see you every evening in darshan in the porch - because all questions can be solved only in the porch. Once you are ready, there is no question; then you can enter the palace. Have you ever heard the name of a Greek wise man, Zeno? He was the founder of the Stoic philosophy. Just like me, he used to teach in the porch. The word stoic comes from a Greek word stoikas, from stoa, which means porch. His whole life he was teaching in the porch and people would say, "You have such a beautiful house, why do you teach in the porch?" He said, "All teaching is just like the porch. When you are ready to listen to the silence you enter the temple - then there is no talk." From the word stoa, porch, his whole philosophy is known as Stoicism.

All words can at the most become porches; they lead you toward the inner temple; but if you cling to them you remain in the porch - the porch is not the palace. Lao Tzu is saying something which is just like a porch, a door. If you understand it, you will drop all words, language - in fact the whole mind. Where you leave your shoes in the porch, you should leave your mind also. Only then do you enter the innermost shrine of being.

[Anonymous No.16268243]

>>16264200
>opium bad
N
P
C

[Anonymous No.16268250]

>>16263297
based yet bluepilled

[Anonymous No.16268710]

>>16268236
I swear Seneca recommended that one should kill himself if he were in that sort of scenario.

[Anonymous No.16268713]

>>16263207
blah blah blah no one cares