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/lit/ - Literature

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16188922 No.16188922 [Reply] [Original]

>To draw no envy, Shakespeare, on thy name,
>Am I thus ample to thy book and fame;

what does line 2 mean?

>> No.16188934

also when he says
>'Tis true, and all men's suffrage
doest he mean : it is true and (it is) all men's suffrage? Can you say the suffrage of someone in Elizabethan English?

>> No.16188961

and lastly
>Which, since thy flight from hence, hath mourn'd like night,
>And despairs day, but for thy volume's light.
he means
>'mourn'd like (the) night (mourned the day)'
> despairs (by) day
right? and what does volume mean? maybe his (Shakespeare's) body?
Thanks.

>> No.16189027

>>16188922
> what does line 2 mean?
idk
>>16188934
>doest he mean : it is true and (it is) all men's suffrage?
yes
>Can you say the suffrage of someone in Elizabethan English?
sure but it wouldn't scan
>>16188961
I think it's something like 'since you left, the stage has mourned your absence like the night, with no hope of light ever returning, except that your volume still shines like a star'
volume means book
I don't think the night is supposed to be mourning any specific thing but just that nights are mournful

>> No.16189132

>>16189027
Ah yes volume means book of course. So you think 'despairs day means' rather 'despairs (of seeing the) day (ever again)'?
Also I don't think your explanation of the mourning thing works because to do X 'like' Y, Y has to do X, it can't be that Y is a good time or place to do X. At least that's how I understand it. You can't 'eat like noon' or 'swim like a pool'.

>> No.16189175

>>16188922
>>16188934

>To draw no envy, Shakespeare, on thy name,
>Am I thus ample to thy book and fame;
>While I confess thy writings to be such
>As neither man nor Muse can praise too much.
You have to read the whole thing together to see what it means. He's saying, "I am going to praise you fulsomely - I'm going to be AMPLE in my praise - but I'm not doing this to make people envious of you, or annoyed that I'm praising you so much, because your stuff is so good, that however much I praise it, I'm not over-praising it."

>’Tis true, and all men’s suffrage.
This just means "It's true, and everyone agrees." "Suffrage" meant both "vote" and "general words of applause or support"; nowadays it just means the former.

>Shine forth, thou Star of poets, and with rage
>Or influence, chide or cheer the drooping stage;
>Which, since thy flight from hence, hath mourned like night,
>And despairs day, but for thy volume’s light.
Since you've gone, the stage is drooping, because there's nothing as good as your stuff now. The stage mourns like night [just a metaphor, like "its mood is dark"].
>and despairs day
"and despairs that day will ever arrive..."
>but for thy volume's light.
"...except for the fact that we still have your works written down (your volume of plays), which bring light to the theater."

>> No.16189296

>>16189027
>Also I don't think your explanation of the mourning thing works because to do X 'like' Y, Y has to do X, it can't be that Y is a good time or place to do X. At least that's how I understand it. You can't 'eat like noon' or 'swim like a pool'.
I mean in some sense you're right but at the same time the elizabethans say shit like this all the time

>> No.16189306

they would say 'eat like noon' without batting an eyelid

>> No.16189333

>>16189175
Ah yes, it's 'it's not to draw any envy, ...', I get it thanks. Btw is he saying 'draw on' instead of 'draw to' as a play on words, with the second meaning of draw as in 'draw a drawing' and the fact that he's writing his eulogy so it's kind of like a drawing somewhat, or did the elizabethan just say draw on instead of draw to?

Also I agree that 'despairs day' can mean 'despairs of seing the day' as you said but can it also mean 'despairs by day'? Is it possible in elizabethan english to skip the preposition like that?

>> No.16189342

>>16189306
really? Do you have an example of something like that? me I'm not familiar enough with English lit but it would shock me

>> No.16189366

>>16189333
>[envy stuff]
I don't think it's a play on words, I think it's just like 'draw to'
>Is it possible in elizabethan english to skip the preposition like that?
they sometimes seem to skip prepositions that we would keep (or just use different ones, as above), but I don't think they'd ever skip 'by' like that
hope that helps

>> No.16189384

>>16189306
sorry no examples (if I manage to think of one I'll post), and I agree it looks weird today, but it would seem natural to me if I came across it in an elizabethan text
my general sense is that they were less concerned than we probably are today about the different parts of a metaphor matching up in a completely logical way; a vague association could be enough

>> No.16189385

>>16189366
Thanks for you input

>> No.16189485

>>16189333

>draw on
I don't get much sense of punning on "draw". "Draw on" is normal enough even today. "Idiotic Private Smith lit a cigarette and drew the enemy fire down on us."

>"despairs day"
The Elizabethans were a people in a hurry and skipped prepositions and anything else they thought they could get away with, all the time. There's a billion examples in Shakespeare.

>"You will say [to] a beggar, nay." ― Richard III

>“Sayest [to] me so, friend?" ― Taming of the Shrew

>“List a brief tale." ― Lear

etc,etc,etc

There might be a double meaning ("despairs by day") but I'm not really feeling it.