What's the "Bible" of Greek Mythology?

[Anonymous No.16166779]

Where can I learn about Greek moral and ethically teachings like I would if I read the New Testament?

[Anonymous No.16166798]

>>16166779
Built for big satyr cock

[Anonymous No.16167043]

>>16166779
The Greek gods didn't have an ethic code like with monotheism. You would just commit sacrifices to appease a specific god or goddess.

[Anonymous No.16167053]

>>16167043
The Greek mortals certainly did, and this is what I'm interested in learning about

[Anonymous No.16167066]

>>16167053
why are you interested in this? if it’s for any reason other than entertainment you are deluding yourself (i have to make this caveat due to all the recent r9k posting here). There is no Bible of Hellenism unfortunately to answer you, that is there is no official grouping of stories. Just read the myths that are available, there are plenty of different books with collections of Greek myths but no ultimate one as far as im concerned

[Anonymous No.16167069]

>>16166779
You can't because the Greeks were amoral sodomites

[Anonymous No.16167078]

>>16167053
If you want the main Greek myths then try Pseudo-Apollodorus. It's not like with Christians though. There is no "do this" and "do that" aside from commiting sacrifices and rituals.

[Anonymous No.16167080]

>>16166798

[Anonymous No.16167083]

>>16167043
>>16166779
>>16166779
There is no bible of the Greek world you fucking midwit. Those were oral stories, and you did not learn morals from gods. Gods were just powerful beings who did whatever the fuck they wanted and you needed to respect.

The idea that one god is true because it's written in a fucking book is Judeo-Christian-Islamic, and it's not a case that none of these tradition had any philosophers that were even remotely as smart as the Greeks. Believing books instead of interpreting them literally makes you stupid.

That said, since I pity you and I'd prefer have one pagan more and one less Christian LARPer on this board, I'll suggest you read Ovid's Metamorphoses, which is a good book to get into roman and greek mythology, W.F. Otto the Gods of Greece, and Kerenyi's The Gods and Heroes of Greece. Enjoy the read and stop trying learning morals from made-up stories. That's what you do with children who are incapable of processing experience by themselves and need lessons to be spoonfed to them through allegorical narratives instead of learning through independent thought and interpretation.

[Anonymous No.16167084]

>>16167066
In order to recognize the Christian in me (and maybe even ultimately reject it) I need to learn to distinguish between Jewish ethics and Greek ethics

[Anonymous No.16167092]

>>16166779
Just read Plato.

[Anonymous No.16167093]

>>16167069
Which is why they were smarter than you

[Anonymous No.16167096]

>>16167092
Euthyphro is a good argument against polytheism and religion in general.

[Anonymous No.16167107]

>>16167084
There are not Greek ethics. Judaism is a religion, with a codified text of ethical rules, ancient Greece was a culture, and its values (if any) were not codified in books.
Stop thinking in this useless categories such as "jewish" and "greek" and read some philosophy instead. Historical categories are transient, tradition and historical permanence are not a proof of the validity of anything.

[Anonymous No.16167110]

>>16167043
>>16167066
>>16167078
>>16167083
I'm not looking for an ethics code or a ritual guide. I want to understand to what degree Christianity has impacted my psyche and my actions, my sense of good-evil and to compare and contrast with how the pagans Greeks saw the world, THEIR sense of good-evil (if there even was such dialectical distinction in their time). I want to become more Greek and less Abrahamic, if that makes sense

[Anonymous No.16167116]

>>16167096
It would be, if it were an argument instead of a question.
You guys need to fucking start reading the books instead of namedropping them

[Anonymous No.16167121]

>>16167096
How does that contradict what OP was asking about?
>Where can I learn about Greek moral and ethically teachings

[Anonymous No.16167122]

>>16167116
That's the biggest akshyually tier distinction ever. Also I know Socrates himself was a theist of some kind but the question he raises makes religion seem pretty useless.

[Anonymous No.16167128]

>>16167092
No, he destroyed Greek paganism. Plato was a proto-Christian

[Anonymous No.16167129]

>>16167110
Nietzsche's master morality is based on Greek and Roman morality.

[Anonymous No.16167139]

>>16166779
>being such a gargantuan plebeian you even have to ask this

ignore the ones who say plato, he basically wanted to subvert the greek "bible" which was the works of Homer and Hesiod.

[Anonymous No.16167154]

>>16167110
It does not make sense because those categories don't make sense. They are made up following a vague understanding of some text you read which you take as representatives of whole cultures.
Now, if what you want is to challenge your religious beliefs and self-examine yourself (including how much Christianity has impacted you), what you are looking for is philosophy. And the only starting place for philosophy is Plato, more precisely: Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo. If you want to keep using your made-up categories, the answer is the same. This is where you start thinking about books and stop believing in them.

[Anonymous No.16167171]

>>16167129
Too bad Nietzsche was a notoriously terrible historian, as almost all the philologists of his time recognized.

[Anonymous No.16167203]

Ethics of Aristotle
Courtesans and Fishcakes by Davidson
Thucydides was secretly a moral philospher too
Plato was also important
As for myths and their teachings
Herodotus, Pausanias, Strabo, Apollodorus, Hesiod, Homer are portray greek morality through the myths they tell
The Gymnasium of Virtue for Spartan morality by Kennel
Orators used appeals to virtue and what the Greeks considered virtuous a lot so it's very indicative, especially people like Lysias, Demosthenes, Isocrates, Isaeus and Lycurgus (the Athenian orator, not the law maker)
Another curious source for Greco-Roman morality is Plutarch with his moralia and his greek and Roman lives which are very didactic in their character

[Anonymous No.16167214]

>>16167203
Epictetus is also a thing that exists but he's from post-hellenistic times
Another source for myths is Nicander who was also one of the main sources Ovid used for metamorphoses

[Anonymous No.16167233]

>>16167203
Another couple of things I forgot
Lyric poetry often talked about virtue so the lyrical canon is also worth looking at
Tragedies are also a great source for greek ethics though keep in mind that tragedies are tragedies and are thus rather tragic, especially Euripedes
One more source I forgot for myths is our Hellenistic fren Apollonius who wrote about the tale of the Argonauts
Romans were more conservative but shared in a similar moral ethos so it might be worth looking at the likes of Cicero, Quintilian and Seneca

[Anonymous No.16167240]

>>16167214
>literal hellenistic philosopher
>from post hellenistic times
You guys are all pretentious undergrads

[Anonymous No.16167251]

>>16167240
Epictetus lived in Roman times fren
By Hellenistic I meant the time period, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear

[Anonymous No.16167365]

>>16167092
>just read the guy who was born around 300 years after ancient Greek civilization as we understand it began

[Anonymous No.16167431]

>>16166779
>>16167083
This guy is an asshole, and probably has autism, but his recommendation is solid. Go read Metamorphoses

[Anonymous No.16167473]

>>16167171
You're mistaken. He was such a good philologist that he was getting published in his early 20s and even got elected to become a professor at 24 on account of his good work. It was his philosophical takes that irked academics and caused them to reject his work, and only because he was going against the democratic narrative at the time.

[Anonymous No.16167477]

>>16166779
This is the primary failing in understanding of pagan religions: they weren't organized and preached like modern monotheistic religions. Our image of a canonical pantheon is really just a post-monotheistic lens mangling the common practice of household worship because they can't imagine a world where religion is a personal experience instead of a communal/national experience. In the vast majority of cases worship was just some vague genius loci that were merged together by scholars after-the-fact to try to make sense of things.

[Anonymous No.16167491]

>>16166779
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Illiad and Odyssey. They treated those works as we treat Bible nowadays.

[Anonymous No.16167502]

>>16167491
Yes but there are no moral or ethical teachings in those besides "don't oppose the Gods."

[Anonymous No.16167510]

>>16167502
Bible is just "Don't oppose God" as well

[Anonymous No.16167543]

>>16167502
That's absurdly reductionist and you know it.

[Anonymous No.16167622]

>>16167128
Plato was a devout pagan.

[Anonymous No.16167638]

>>16167622
World of Forms directly contradicts with Greek Paganism.

[Anonymous No.16167654]

>>16166779
Read Ovid's Metamorphoses and you'll understand how strange your question is. There are no moral or ethical teachings to be found, beyond certain basic tenets of familial duty, and the constant sense of "boy I sure hope I don't meet any gods today, or their rampaging bastard children". The gods are essentially amoral, their only code is, "I am a god and you aren't, so I'm going to rape you and then turn you into an animal afterwards so you don't complain too much. Or maybe a tree. Or a rock. Could be anything, really. You're getting raped either way though." Thats it. The gods are powerful and capricious, and humans aren't. Even if you get the favor of one god, that will probably piss off one of their rivals, who will go to great lengths to ruin your day, if not your life.

[Anonymous No.16167658]

>>16166779
Like others have said Greeks expressed their morality through their culture as opposed to codified scriptures. Just as many of our modern morals do not actually need laws to enforce them but are completely unspoken and naturally followed by most.

That being said, the philosophers; who were religious figures, wrote a lot on morality and ethics.

[Anonymous No.16167695]

>>16167638
Wrong. The world of forms affirm Greek paganism.

As the principle of all things is the one, it is necessary that the progression of beings should be continued, and that no vacuum should intervene either in incorporeal or corporeal natures. It is also necessary that every thing which has a natural progression should proceed through similitude. In consequence of this, it is likewise necessary that every producing principle should generate a number of the same order with itself, viz. nature, a natural number; soul, one that is psychical (i.e. belonging to soul); and intellect an intellectual number. For if whatever possesses a power of generating, generates similars prior to dissimilars, every cause must deliver its own form and characteristic peculiarity to its progeny; and before it generates that which gives subsistence to progressions, far distant and separate from its nature, it must constitute things proximate to itself according to essence, and conjoined with it through similitude. It is, therefore, necessary from these premises, since there is one unity, the principle of the universe, that this unity should produce from itself, prior to every thing else, a multitude of natures characterized by unity, and a number the most of all things allied to its cause; and these natures are no other than the Gods.

According to this theology, therefore, from the immense principle of principles, in which all things causally subsist, absorbed in superessential light, and involved in unfathomable depths, a beauteous progeny of principles proceed, all largely partaking of the ineffable, all stamped with the occult characters of deity, all possessing an overflowing fulness of good. From these dazzling summits, these ineffable blossoms, these divine propagations, being, life, intellect, soul, nature, and body depend; monads suspended from unities, deified natures proceeding from deities. Each of these monads, too, is the leader of a series which extends from itself to the last of things, and which, while it proceeds from, at the same time abides in, and returns to, its leader. And all these principles, and all their progeny, are finally centred and rooted by their summits in the first great all-comprehending one. Thus all beings proceed from, and are comprehended in, the first being: all intellects emanate from one first intellect; all souls from one first soul; all natures blossom from one first nature; and all bodies proceed from the vital and luminous body of the world. And, lastly, all these great monads are comprehended in the first one, from which both they and all their depending series are unfolded into light. Hence this first one is truly the unity of unities, the monad of monads, the principle of principles, the God of Gods, one and all things, and yet one prior to all.

[Anonymous No.16167718]

>>16167066
>no official grouping of stories
Isnt Hesiod's Theogeny the authority?

[Anonymous No.16167727]

[Anonymous No.16167734]

[Anonymous No.16167978]

>>16166779
Are u retarded? Hesiod and Homer and some tragics. Btw they had enough secret cults which we dont know.

[Anonymous No.16167997]

>>16167543
>>16167978
He is asking for morals and there is no ten commandments of Greece or whatnot.

[Anonymous No.16168110]

>>16167997
Their moral was a beauty, simple as.

[Anonymous No.16168122]

>>16167658
>Like others have said Greeks expressed their morality through their culture as opposed to codified scriptures
Then how do I embody Greek culture as opposed to the residue of abrahamic culture that we see today?

[Anonymous No.16168287]

>>16168122
You can't
Christianity literally BTFO Greek culture out of existence, even Julian the Apostate was a crypto-Christian

[Anonymous No.16168327]

>>16167110
Read Hesiod, Theology and Works and Days.
>>16167066
>>16167154
What you're saying is just the other end of the Bible, but it is better to understand this in the sense of Works and Days where there is general advice on living. A life according to the calendar and good counsel rather than moral law. A life of justice.
This is the gnomic, or wisdom lessons. How to relate to friends, prosperity of the seasons, general rules of marriage etc.
>That man is altogether best who considers all things himself and marks what will be better afterwards and at the end; and he, again, is good who listens to a good adviser; but whoever neither thinks for himself nor keeps in mind what another tells him, he is an unprofitable man.

>Let the wage promised to a friend be fixed; even with your brother smile -- and get a witness; for trust and mistrust, alike ruin men.

>For a man wins nothing better than a good wife, and, again, nothing worse than a bad one, a greedy soul who roasts her man without fire, strong though he may be, and brings him to a raw old age.

[Anonymous No.16168367]

>>16168110
>simple as
Thats an ugly phrase

[Anonymous No.16168811]

>>16168327
>Bring home a wife to your house when you are of the right age, while you are not far short of thirty years nor much above; this is the right age for marriage. Let your wife have been grown up four years, and marry her in the fifth. Marry a maiden, so that you can teach her careful ways
OH NO NO NO NO

[Anonymous No.16168819]

>>16168811
He was saying 5 years after her first period. That would usually be around 17

[Anonymous No.16168880]

>>16167110
>I want to understand to what degree Christianity has impacted my psyche and my actions, my sense of good-evil and to compare and contrast with how the pagans Greeks saw the world, THEIR sense of good-evil (if there even was such dialectical distinction in their time). I want to become more Greek and less Abrahamic, if that makes sense

>Notes On The Death Of God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFc2JVeOzQ0&t=121s

>Greek religion is not the same as Greek mythology, which is concerned with traditional tales, though the two are closely interlinked. Curiously, for a people so religiously minded, the Greeks had no word for religion itself; the nearest terms were eusebeia (“piety”) and threskeia (“cult”).
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Greek-religion

>1998-03-24 NSPRS 092 - Plotinus on The One, The Good pt 1
>Greeks developed Spirituality; you are still in this World; It is not a religious system.
>Christians demanded Belief.
>Timestamped
https://youtu.be/Cvs52cBjpgU?t=5103

>Coping With Tragedy with Pierre Grimes
>Every tragedy has the elements of our own spiritual growth"
>Tragedy from a Greek viewpoint, is a natural consecuence of experiencing injustice; the ocnsecuence of experiencing injustice is Anger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQWFZiJg9CI&t=27s

>Greek Philosophy and Early Christianity with Pierre Grimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR8Rve_Fy3c

[Anonymous No.16168893]

>>16168880
>Paganism was considered not just a psychological but a physical miasma. Christianity appeared on a planet that had been, for at least 70,000 years, animist. (Asking the women and men of antiquity whether they believed in spirits, nymphs, djinns would have been as odd as asking them whether they believed in the sea.) But for Christians, the food that pagans produced, the bathwater they washed in, their very breaths were thought to be infected by demons. Pollution was said to make its way into the lungs of bystanders during animal sacrifice. And once Christianity became championed by Rome, one of the most militaristic civilizations the world has known, philosophical discussions on the nature of good and evil became martial instructions for purges and pugilism.
>Christians became known as those “who move that which should not be moved.” Their laudable appeal to have-nots at the bottom of the pile, both free and unfree, meant that bishops had a citizen-army of pumped-up, undereducated young men ready to rid the world of sin.
>To be sure, Christians would not have a monopoly on orthodoxy, or indeed on suppression: The history of the ancient world typically makes for stomach-churning reading. Pagan philosophers too who flew in the face of religious consensus risked persecution; Socrates, we must not forget, was condemned to death on a religious charge.
>The early medieval author known as Pseudo-Jerome wrote of Christian extremists: “Because they love the name martyr and because they desire human praise more than divine charity, they kill themselves.” He would have found shocking familiarity in the news of the 21st century.
>The words “wisdom” and “historian” have a common ancestor, a proto-Indo-European word meaning to see things clearly. Nixey delivers this ballista-bolt of a book with her eyes wide open and in an attempt to bring light as well as heat to the sad story of intellectual monoculture and religious intolerance.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/books/review/catherine-nixey-darkening-age.html

[Anonymous No.16168922]

>>16167997
Why do morals have to exist in a commandment format? Every Greek myth contained at least one regardless.

[Anonymous No.16169006]

>>16168893
>Christianity, as a religion of peace, is despised by Nietzsche. According to Nietzsche's account, pity has a depressive effect, loss of vitality and strength, and is harmful to life. It also preserves that which should naturally be destroyed. For a noble morality, pity is a weakness, but for Christianity, it is a virtue.

>In Schopenhauer's philosophy, which Nietzsche sees as the most nihilistic and opposed to life, pity is the highest virtue of all. But, for Nietzsche:[8]

>[I]n the role of protector of the miserable, it is a prime agent in the promotion of décadence—pity persuades to extinction.... Of course, one doesn’t say “extinction”: one says “the other world,” or “God,” or “the true life,” or Nirvana, salvation, blessedness.... This innocent rhetoric, from the realm of religious-ethical balderdash, appears a good deal less innocent when one reflects upon the tendency that it conceals beneath sublime words: the tendency to destroy life. Schopenhauer was hostile to life: that is why pity appeared to him as a virtue.

>He goes on further, mentioning that the moderns Leo Tolstoy and Richard Wagner adopted Schopenhauer's viewpoint. Aristotle, who lived in 384-322 BC, on the other hand, recognized the unhealthiness of pity and prescribed tragedy as a purgative.[8]

[Anonymous No.16169036]

>>16169006
>the apostles claimed that Jesus' death was a sacrifice of an innocent man for the sins of the guilty. But "Jesus him self had done away with the very concept of 'guilt,' he denied that there was any gulf fixed between God and man; he lived this unity between God and man, and that was precisely his 'glad tidings'"[43]

>In order to claim that there is life after death, the apostles ignored Jesus' example of blessed living. Paul emphasizes the concept of immortality in First Corinthians 15:17, as Nietzsche explains:[43]

>St. Paul…gave a logical quality to that conception, that indecent conception, in this way: 'If Christ did not rise from the dead, then all our faith is in vain!'—And at once there sprang from the Gospels the most contemptible of all unfulfillable promises, the shameless doctrine of personal immortality.... Paul even preached it as a reward....

>Paul used the promise of life after death as a way to seize tyrannical power over the masses of lower-class people.[44] This changed Christianity from a peace movement that achieves actual happiness into a religion whose final judgment offers possible resurrection and eternal life. Paul falsified the history of Christianity, the history of Israel, and the history of mankind by making them all seem to be a preparation for the crucifixion. "The vast lie of personal immortality destroys all reason, all natural instinct—henceforth, everything in the instincts that is beneficial, that fosters life and that safeguards the future is a cause of suspicion."[45]

[Anonymous No.16169038]

Homer
Hesiod
The Biblioteca

[Anonymous No.16169058]

>>16169036
>The 'meaning' of life is that there is no meaning to present life. One lives for life in the beyond. By offering immortal life after death to everyone, Christianity appealed to everyone's egoism. The laws of nature would be broken for the salvation of everyone. "And yet Christianity has to thank precisely this miserable flattery of personal vanity for its triumph—it was thus that it lured all the botched, the dissatisfied, the fallen upon evil days, the whole refuse and off-scouring of humanity to its side."[45]

>This influenced politics and led to revolutions against aristocracies. Christianity separated itself from Judaism as though it was the chosen religion, "just as if the Christian were the meaning, the salt, the standard and even the last judgment of all the rest."[46]

>Christianity then divided itself from the world by appropriation: "[L]ittle abortions of bigots and liars began to claim exclusive rights in the concepts of 'God,' 'the truth,' 'the light,' 'the spirit,' 'love,' 'wisdom' and 'life,' as if these things were synonyms of themselves."[46] According to Nietzsche:[46]

[Anonymous No.16169091]

>>16166779
There isn't one. Polytheistic religions were inherently fragmented into various cults. Without a centralized clergy to consolidate the cults into a unified faith, there was never a single textual source from which it flowed. Polytheistic paganism can be thought of as "religion in the wild" an untamed and unorganized first-religion. Monotheism reflects progressive concentrations of power and religious authority with the development of civilization.

[Anonymous No.16169095]

>>16166779

Ovid's metamorphoses is a good collection of the myths, but it also has a lot of subtle political commentary in it, and isn't so much a tale of morality as a critique of (Ovid's contemporary Roman) morals, which were being artifically introduced by emperor Augustus. As others have said, there is no 'Greek bible' and morality changed much during the hellenistic period. The morality around the Homer era stories (become immortal through your fame and deeds, defeat enemy champions and steal their armour to show your worth to the gods and your peers) and morality around Plato's era (service to family and general citizenship) were different. Sparta and Athens had different takes on things, so it varies even by geographical location.

Women during Greek times were (in general) seen as objects to be traded, or stolen and put on display for prestige, much like stolen armor.

For Homeric era, read Iliad and Odyssesy and then analyses of them; you won't get much out of the books without understanding the context behind everything. For Athenian, do the four books that make up the Trials of Socretes, and then consider Republic. The Myth of Er (Republic) is definitely something you should check out.

[Anonymous No.16169157]

>>16167695
>The world of forms affirm Greek paganism.
No it did not.
It provided a Window for Monotheism; Judaism; to creep into Hellenic Culture and thus to European Culture at large.
>pic rel.

[Anonymous No.16169160]

>>16168880
OP here. Thank you, I feel like you are one of the few who understood my request. I may have articulated it hastily and poorly, but you still managed to deliver what I sought.

I read this yesterday from Nietzsche:
>Christianity, growing from Jewish roots and comprehensible only as a product of this soul, represents the reaction against that morality of breeding, of race, of privilege - it is the anti-Aryan religion par excellence: Christianity the revaluation of all Aryan values.


And I just want to make it clear for anyone reading this. I don't hate Christianity, I don't loathe real Christians. But I despise hypocrisy, modern egalitarianism and its consequences. I have sadly come to the realization that the Social Justices Warriors who are destroying us today are simply taking Christianity to its logical conclusion. Christianity without authority cannot work, the moment you free Christianity it becomes GloboHomo, and rightly so. Liberalism is not a departure from Christianity - it's the perversion of Christianity. Authority has fallen, secularism won and Christianity has become thoroughly subverted.

[Anonymous No.16169170]

>>16169091
wrong. don't answer when you know nothing.

[Anonymous No.16169570]

>>16169160
>I may have articulated it hastily and poorly, but you still managed to deliver what I sought.
No you did not; Your OP is straight to the point, what threw people off is the Comparison to the Abrahamic holy book. In my Mind your OP is framed like this: " From what sources may I gather and attain a deeper understanding of Hellenic, pre abrahamic Culture? But because of the Bible reference people adress your not correct thought of equating the Bible to the Hellenic, Indo-European Spirituality and chastise you for it, which is wrong because paradoxically that comparison reveals your Crux and it's solution ; we view our European past through a Christian/Abrahamic lense and so we need to Look for that Break-Up point between European Christianity and European Animism for Insight ,hence why I accurately interpreted your Need.


>I have sadly come to the realization that the Social Justices Warriors who are destroying us today are simply taking Christianity to its logical conclusion. Christianity without authority cannot work, the moment you free Christianity it becomes GloboHomo, and rightly so. Liberalism is not a departure from Christianity - it's the perversion of Christianity. Authority has fallen, secularism won and Christianity has become thoroughly subverted.
I am of the same Mind; Nietzsche talked about living in the shadow of the Dead God; We are still a "Christian" culture and although Christianity is retreating we are still reacting and socilizing like Christians; Our Problems ,what affects us, and how we react is inherently Christian; as the Degenerate Slave Caste Culture St.Paul took charge off.


>Protestantism has left us utterly confused
>'Either/Or', Kierkegaard introduces a person whom he calls ’the aesthete’. This is a man who cannot find a way to 'choose himself'.
>Kierkegaard criticises the aesthete for not choosing himself. Instead, he avoids himself by constantly acting out multiple roles.
>But although you should ’choose yourself’, there is no prescription for what to choose, because you cannot find a core that is yourself.
"The Delphic Oracle – which existed in Ancient Greece – said 'know thyself'. But Kierkegaard says 'choose yourself' – it is action-oriented. You should actively be the one you are, where you are – and not think so much about who you are.
https://sciencenordic.com/books-christianity-denmark/protestantism-has-left-us-utterly-confused/1462932

[Anonymous No.16169619]

Don't listen to these bozos. The Greek moral and ethical teachings are in books

[Anonymous No.16169669]

>>16169570
>Nietzsche’s Puritan Warriors
>Power and Purity: The Unholy Marriage That Spawned America’s Social Justice Warriors
>by Mark T. Mitchell.
>Mitchell’s thesis is both simple and elegant: he contends that the worldview underlying a great deal of today’s progressive activism is a curious admixture of Friedrich Nietzsche’s reduction of all ethics to power and the zealous moralism of America’s Puritan heritage.
>following Alasdair MacIntyre, Mitchell argues that the heart of Nietzsche’s work is the “genealogical” critique of morality—the claim that all traditional moral discourse inevitably masks power plays by one group or another.
>But, as Mitchell correctly points out, few of Nietzsche’s latter-day disciples go this far. Instead, “Nietzsche’s Puritan Warriors” prefer to hover at the level of surface criticism, decrying modern civilization as pervasively oppressive while simultaneously immunizing their own premises from critique.
>today’s progressive activists are comfortable with an intractable logical inconsistency at the heart of their moral framework—in Mitchell’s words, they simply lack the “guts” to “go full Nietzsche.” But this feels too easy; it seems far likelier that they simply do not understand the full power of Nietzsche’s argument. After all, rational actors—and most modern campus progressives are indeed rational actors—do not engage in sustained activism without some underlying, substantive vision of the good.
>n the Dionysian reading, Nietzsche situates the true end of humanity—that is, the sacred—in the full flowering of passion and material desire, which was lost when the “priests” seized control of the West. This broadly parallels an argument made by Steven D. Smith in his recent Pagans and Christians in the City: Culture Wars from the Tiber to the Potomac, which contends that the rise of Christianity entailed the affirmation of a “transcendent sacred” over against the “immanent sacred” of classical paganism.
>Smith explains that the ascetic or “eternal-looking” dimensions of Christianity—avoidance of gluttony, sexual restraint, renunciation of hedonic desire—were profoundly offensive to a pagan society that located the divine in transient matter and sensation.
>One need only consider the themes of much contemporary progressivism—sexual liberation, biological heritage, environmental apocalypticism, idealization of preindustrial society, experience-based epistemology, and so forth—to see that there are numerous points of correspondence with the “this-worldly” religiosity of the classical age.
kirkcenter.org/reviews/nietzsches-puritan-warriors/

[Anonymous No.16169684]

>>16169570
>thinking kierkegaard says anything more
cringe

[Anonymous No.16169691]

>>16169669
what's all the data spamming in a thread about Greek thought?

[Anonymous No.16170021]

>>16169684
What is? what's your beef with the article?

>>16169691
>OP asks for sources
>anons post sources
>WHy ArE yOU DAta SPammING?

[Anonymous No.16170172]

>>16169570
What do you think the remedy for this existential crises is then? I'm listening to Keith Wood's video you linked right now and he brings up some great points. I agree with him that returning to tradition (Christianity) or embracing the worldview of the ancients is close to impossible for the modern man. Our minds have been contaminated by enlightenment thinking and modernity to a degree were there's no trace of mystique left in life, we have been reduced to atoms and material. Our humanity has been taken from us.

I have a sense that you will tell me to continue reading Nietzsche, and then what? What realization have you made in all of this, where has it taken you?

[Anonymous No.16170189]

>>16170172
>I have a sense that you will tell me to continue reading Nietzsche
Lol
>pic related.

[Anonymous No.16170361]

>>16170172
>and then what? What realization have you made in all of this, where has it taken you?
>Pic related.
That the World is a Synthesis of Opposites; That Opposites are held together, like the God Janus; Doors to provide Depth to their Counterparts.
Fiction and Real; Fiction in Reality; Reality in Fiction
Dream and Nightmare
Sacred and Profane

And well that we are Ephemeral; Beings Being in the World.
>I have a superficial reading of Heideger but this is what he addresses.

>Foreseeing the certainty of their own Death would deprive mortals of lifealtogether, since life thrives in the partial vacuum of fear and hope poised between desire and its object. Eros, as human life, is what Plato called a μὴ ὄν, an ephemeral state of existence
>Hence human life, psychoanalysis teaches us wittingly or unwittingly, is mortal because It already contains death as one of its essential elements.
>We experience this cataclysmic opening or “clearing”( Lichtung ) at rare, historical moments as death itself.We have seen that “Death” can have no physical meaning.

Death can have no physical meaning
https://www.academia.edu/25721823/Blind_Hope_In_Aeschyluss_Prometheus_Bound


How to solve the Abrahamic Question?
To belief or not Belief?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO0pcWxcROI

Realize you never have to answer a Question that is meant to not Synthesise you with the World.
There is no going back to pre-Christianity; Indo-European Animism has always moved Forward with us all this time.
I Intuit 4chan meme culture, which is a Sense making, Sense Expression of the Spectrum of Human Experience, of Instinctual Feelings and Abstract Conceptions is Animism; Kek, Honkler, Wojek,Pepe; all Mythologems that have been with us since for ever ( See Kerenyi & Jung work on Mythology) ; Being in 4chan; No Anon can Prove we talk to other Anons in threads, we can't sense if we are really real, but we do Know things shared and created hold Meaning, and so we Stand our Ground in Meaning, we don't need "Blind Belief"

[Anonymous No.16170388]

>>16170361
>Scott Fitzgerald pinned human intelligence on its tolerance of paradox. In his 1936 essay “The Crack-Up,” Fitzgerald writes that “the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.” For example, he says you should “be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise.
>“be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise
>The surest way to be deceived is to think of yourself more clever than others, and neglecting opposing views because you don’t agree with them.
>to think of yourself more clever
>neglecting opposing views
>He confesses he’s lost this ability—and as a result, himself.
>George Orwell once said, “Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.”
https://qz.com/1247378/forget-the-turing-test-give-ai-the-f-scott-fitzgerald-test-instead/

>>He confesses he’s lost this ability—and as a result, himself.
This is what Abrahamism has done to us, specially Christianity; Doubt without Synthesis. Two Worlds Separated, the World Of Spirit the True World....In Synthesis Not. Once that Narrative is ceased to be believed, the Profane "Material World" is all we've got...but it's still profane...and we Die here so the Transformation that is present in Indo-European Spirituality, reincarnation.. to live through your offspring etc... we don't consider those things Sincere...."but silly beliefs". To Create and Sense Meaning we need to be Sincere.

>Japanese thought is influenced by Confucian, Shintoist, Buddhist, Zen Buddhist, and Taoist ideas and a medley of these finds itself as the basis of what it is to be Japanese. One of the cardinal views is that life is dominated by the spirits of the ancestors, and there is the notion of ancestor worship, which makes the family and the line of a family’s inheritance extraordinarily important. These spirits are called kami and there’s the notion that they can intervene in one’s actual life. These are supernatural ideas, but one of the tricks of Japanese culture, which is very similar to ancient Greece in this respect, is that all orders of opinion can accept these beliefs because there are secular and atheistic interpretations of these belief systems as there are purely religious ones. As in ancient Greece, a woman could kneel or lie before a statue of a god, and yet rationalist intellectuals in the same civilization could regard the divine stories as entirely metaphorical. And yet they would all be accepted as Greek. And they would all be accepted as different definitions of what it was to be Greek or to be a member of a Greek city-state. Mishima, for one, was obsessed by Greece, particularly ancient Greece, and incorporated quite a few Grecian odes and ethics into his books.
>Jonathan Bowden on "Yukio Mishima"

[Anonymous No.16170521]

>>16167997
>There are no morals because they haven't been explicitly laid out for me

[Anonymous No.16170774]

>>16166779
>75 replies
>no mention of Bacchic mysteries
>no mention of Orphic mysteries
>no mention of Eleusinian mysteries
this confirms once and for all that /lit/ is full of brainlets

[Anonymous No.16170799]

>>16166779
>Greek morals
No religious ones to speak of, outside of repeated warnings to revere the gods. Humans are at their mercy, right or wrong, and paying tribute is necessary for our survival.
That's pretty much it. Even if you subscribed to one god's code of conduct, you still might offend another one.

[Anonymous No.16170979]

>>16170774
>Me; A Patrician
>All of You; Plebs

[Anonymous No.16170989]

>>16170979
precisely

[Anonymous No.16171043]

>>16170989
I know of 2 superficially and not at all of the Orphic Mysteries; ElderAnon, What do those three mysteries teach of the Hellens?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16171218]

Not sure if this has been mentioned/posted yet, but here it is anyway

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16171225]

Perhaps of some interest also

[Anonymous No.16171729]

bump

[Anonymous No.16172539]

>>16166779
Are they trying to wash him or drown him? Is that the point of the painting...

[Anonymous No.16172605]

>>16170172
>Contaminated
It's liberation you stupid faggot. There is no inherent meaning. Go enjoy life instead of reading theology. Unravel the mysteries of the universe or study philosophy and actually do something if you want to better the lot of your fellow men.