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/lit/ - Literature

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16161415 No.16161415 [Reply] [Original]

Will the lyrics of rappers be studied a hundred years from now on like we study the poems of people from the past? Is rap the next step in the evolution of poetry?

>> No.16161426

>>16161415
rap is more like folk songs, which we do take note of, but most rap is so dumb and specific to its time that i doubt people will care much. Maybe there will be like an anthology of some of the better rap songs, for like 'hiphop folk culture' or something.

>> No.16161430

>>16161415
>Will the lyrics of rappers be studied a hundred years from now

Academia already studies rap music

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=jstor+rap+lyrics

>Is rap the next step in the evolution of poetry?
meaningless question

>> No.16161437

SCUUUUUUUUUUUM GAAAAAAANG

>> No.16161455

Yes, but only Eminem.

>> No.16161485

>>16161415
maybe more verbose and styles, like those belonging to aesop rock, earl, or busdriver, will be analyzed. Stuff like dalek or clipping might also be looked at for it's content and relation to their respective styles of music. The majority of it is too entry level of a political skew or unoriginal in form to be worth analzying beyond the present.

>> No.16161493

>>16161415
They won't even be studied 100 mins from now. They're empty, retarded trash.

>> No.16161520

>>16161493
You're just mad that the members of society who have been oppressed until now are making their voice heard at last - and their voice is much more interesting and worthy of appreciation than anything someone so clearly disconnected from real life as your kind could muster.

>> No.16161531

>>16161520
they're a modern day minstrel show
>look the ape can speak, it says such funny things

>> No.16161536

>>16161415
Yes, but not shit like 6ix9ine

>> No.16161539

>>16161415
If the current mode of historicist analysis stays in vogue we certainly will. Even now, literature scholars rarely study poetry from a formalist, aestheticist or universalist standpoint. They study poems to unearth the ideology/worldview of the time in which a poem was written. Scholars today don’t study yeats because he writes beautiful poetry. They study him because he represents the perspective of the white, male, Anglo Irish Protestant class in colonial Ireland during the rise of Irish catholic nationalist movements. Similarly 6ix9ine will be studied as an expression of a certain cross section of cultures in a certain cultural moment

>> No.16161547

>>16161415
talk shit about hip hop all you like but at least people like 69 weren’t propped up by record labels to become popular.

>> No.16161566
File: 199 KB, 300x129, Implications.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16161566

>>16161547
How naive can you get

>> No.16161577

>are you dumb, stupid, or dumb?
No, I think they will be forgotten like so much dross

>> No.16161582

>>16161539
For instance a future cultural studies scholar focusing on the intersection between American law enforcement and hip hop in the 2010s and 2020s might cite 6ix9ine as a representative of an orientation toward “Snitching” and police collaboration that diverged from the prevailing attitude of hip hop artists.

>> No.16161590
File: 197 KB, 996x1024, 1560149235128.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16161590

>>16161547
>rap
>ever not being propped up by labels

If only I could afford to be this naive.

>> No.16161645

posterity has never been closely correlated with whether something's any good

>> No.16161649

>>16161590
explain 4:44 or public enemy

>> No.16161833

>bunch of black people and caribbean people start an identity around music, dance, artistic expression and creativity
>the white devil introduce drug war, hip hop becomes a political movement carrying rebellious messages and brutal honesty about the community it represents
>drug kinpins use hip hop to wash money and legitimize business
>ALL THIS IS DOCUMENTED IN HIP HOP. Fucking dusty ass white historians btfo
>contemporary time, mixtapes are a medium used to accelerate the pace of hip hops place in intracommunal affairs (doesn't really affect the white devil just his kids but the kids don't even know what's being said)
>all other cultures wish they could be a part of the current Greco/Homero story telling Renaissance but they think the language and slang is ghetto trash

Based hip hop

>> No.16162756
File: 387 KB, 1567x1445, Screenshot_20200815-230027_YouTube.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16162756

No.
Someone like Bob Dylan might be studied, but no rapper approaches that level of respect.
>16161833
They will be studied as historic accounts, but not by anyone but "dusty ass white historians" because no other group bothers.

>> No.16163057

>>16162756

Not really familiar with drill rap in Chicago but I know enough that for 10+ year there's been gang wars that have been documented on social media and hip hop mixtapes alongside the rising and establishing of some famous people. These people are branching out and networking throughout different industries. Compare this to early 1900s Chicago mafia establishing themselves as legitimate. Hip hop is providing like a metanarrative of all the going ons while it's happening. Showing how the sausage is made.
From afar it seems folksy by historical standard. Every society has its folksy origin recorded in some media. But hip hop in particular is intensive with its own analysis and militarized pretension, arrogance.
It wouldn't surprise me if it all becomes mythical/romanticized. The lyrics aren't that great but there's more to it.
Look at blackbeard that ruled some ports for two years and everyone talks about his menace in various media. These people have pictures on Instagram with murder weapons of infamous deaths. And the deaths are all tied to a web of culture deeply ingrained in the rest of the community that reads like a soap opera.

>> No.16163337

>>16161536
t.iffy nigga

SCCUUUUUMMMMMM GAAAAAANNNNGGGG

>> No.16163348

>>16161590
Are you dumb stupid or dumb huh? Tekashi almost brought industry to its knees they had to order hits and when that didn’t work they got the fbi to keep him in federal.

>> No.16163360

>>16163348
>falling for corporate spectacle

I bet you believe pro wrestling is real, too.

>> No.16163380

>>16162756
t. filtered by Aesop Rock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEBGCOCxLgA

Nobody approaches this level of lyrical prose.

>> No.16163399

>>16161485

[Verse 1]
Flash that buttery gold
Jittery zeitgeist, wither by the watering hole, what a patrol
What are we to Heart Huckabee, art fuckery suddenly
Not enough young in his lung for the water wings
Colorfully vulgar poacher, out of mulch
Like, "I'ma pull the pulse out a soldier and bolt."
Fine, sign of the time we elapse
When a primate climb up a spine and attach
Eye for an eye, by the bog life swamps and vines
They get a rise out of frogs and flies
So when a dogfight's hog-tied prize sort of costs a life
The mouths water on a fork and knife
And the allure isn't right
No score on a war-torn beach
Where the cash cow's actually beef
Blood turns wine when it leak for police
Like, "That's not a riot; it's a feast, let's eat!"

[Verse 2]
Now, if you never had a day a snow cone couldn't fix
You wouldn't relate to the rogue vocoder blitz
How he spoke through a NoDoz motor on the fritz
‘Cause he wouldn't play rollover fetch like a bitch
And express no regrets, though he isn't worth a homeowner's piss
To the jokers who pose by the glitz
Fine, sign of the swine in the swarm
When a king is a whore who comply and conform
Miles outside of the eye of the storm
With a siphon to lure out a prize and award
While avoiding the vile and bizarre that is violence and war
True blue triumph is more
Like, "Wait, let him snake up out of the centerfold
Let it break the walls of Jericho, ready go."
Sat where the old, cardboard city folk
Swap tales with heads, like every other penny throw

[Verse 3]
Okay, woke to a grocery list, goes like this
Duty and death; any one object, come stand in the way
You could be my little Snake River Canyon today
And I ran with a chain of commands
And a jetpack strapped where the backstab lands if it can
Fine, sign of the vibe in the crowd
When I cut a belly open to find what climb out
That's quite a bit of gusto he muster up
To make a dark horse rush, like, "Enough's enough!"
It must've struck a nerve so they huff and puff
'Til all the king's men fluster and clusterfuck
And it's a beautiful thing
To my people who keep an impressive wingspan
Even when the cubicle shrink
You got to pull up the intruder by the root of the weed
N.Y. Chew through the machine

>> No.16163587

>>16161415
It’ll be studied as one of the first signs that western civilization was falling

>> No.16163629

>>16161426
True but people in the future will just pretend really, really hard that nigger rap artists were saying things really existential and groundbreaking.

>> No.16164045

>>16163629
Just like we pretend the same about faggot poets

>> No.16164055

>>16163629
i hope our future selves are much more brutally honest than that.

>> No.16164568

Quick, someone post the professor humiliating Nas on his lyrics

>> No.16165395

>>16164568
let's see

>> No.16165438

>>16163587
>first signs that western civilization was falling
>first
Cute.

>> No.16165461

>>16161520
lol no, rap is shit regardless of the race you fucking wigger

>> No.16165503

We'll all be dead within the next hundred years, so no.

>> No.16165509

I hope not. Rape to my ear and mind is essentially to today, as crude doggerel was to such poets as Tennyson and the Browning's. Though, to be honest, I'd prefer even that to rap.

>> No.16165514

Apologies: misspelt rap as "rape" in the second sentence.

>> No.16165525

>>16165514
>>16165509
I think 'rape to my ear' is a pretty good description

>> No.16165553

>>16165525
Perhaps, especially to when it comes to some of the stuff that's come out in the last half-decade or so. 6ix9ine is a perfect example of such. How anyone can like it is truly beyond me.

>> No.16165577

>>16161415
Obviously. Just not pic related. Rap basically died in 2009 with a few boomer artists still releasing decent albums from time to time.

In a way rap suffers from the same fate as other literature and music; most of the defining works are already done, so young artists are stuck in a limbo, either having to imitate the greats they are unlikely to match or try to forcefully find something new, which ends up being shit more often than not.

>> No.16165594

>>16161536
actually opposite, 6ix9ine is closer to the ethos of average urban youth than some pretentious half collegiate spunk like kendrick lamar

>> No.16165605

>>16165553
you can indulge foolishness and still be artistically conscious. tekashi makes music people actually wanna hear

>> No.16165763

>>16165438
>one of the first signs
>one of the
Sweatie pls.

>> No.16165771

>>16165605
Well, people either have some truly awful tastes in music, or none thereof.

>> No.16165787

>>16163360
t. Silly nigga
Not an argument BITCH

>> No.16165917

>>16165553
his music is pretty obviously catchy/full of energy

>> No.16165946

>>16165771
yeah, that would be thou

>> No.16165951

>>16163380
Verse, which rap lyrics are by definition, cannot be prose you retarded nigger.

>> No.16166083

>>16164055
this

>> No.16166101

No
No

The current academic system, including their literature departments, probably won't survive the impending societal collapse

>> No.16166103

>>16161415
don't oust me but wtf is the difference between rap and poetry; and all other forms of music really

>> No.16166125

>>16161415
Nobody cares about African history. Why would they start caring now?

>> No.16166196

>>16166125
because right now there is nothing more impressive in the cultural firmament than rap music

>> No.16166200

>>16166103
i don't think the words of a song in themselves are poetry, because a song is a compound of words and music, and the poetry lies in this relation

>> No.16166202

>>16163629
lol no the post ww2 western world is going to be remembered as the biggest joke in history

>> No.16166214
File: 64 KB, 441x302, ebe6970281d04e55976aeb07d1e043f8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16166214

>>16161520
>and their voice is much more interesting and worthy of appreciation

>> No.16166217

>>16165594
Man you don't know what urban kids are listening to

>> No.16166220

>>16161547
t. literal retard

>> No.16166223

>>16166202
people had never been as nasty, as self-indulgent, as dull, as miserable, as cocksure, as bad at art, as dismally ludicrous, or as wrong as they'd been in the middle ages & that's considered a high point so i wouldn't be so sure

>> No.16166229

>>16163348
I know you're joking but this is actually what teenage white girls believe

>> No.16166236

>>16166217
And what do you think "urban kids" are listening to?

>> No.16166239

>>16166223
fuck off with your myth of progress liberal scum the west is a living caricature of itself

>> No.16166246

>>16166239
you ought to cheer yourself up by a short study of the middle ages. all this would then seem a light price to pay for no longer being in the middle ages.

>> No.16166256

>>16166246
The middle ages were much more functional than the present in many ways. For one thing they could actually sustain their own population, which is a basic requirement for any society to not collapse

>> No.16166260

>>16166246
thank you, sick of these "born in le wrong epoch" failkids who are upset that there are too many majors too pick from at the affordable state college they enrolled in with guaranteed student loans from the government with tax deductible interest, go pick oranges in the florida everglades if you want to be a peasant so bad

>> No.16166263

>>16166256
they sustained it through disease and poor medicine

>> No.16166270

>>16166256
>For one thing they could actually sustain their own population
Wrong. Read a book.

>> No.16166274

SCUM GAAAAAAAANG

>> No.16166278

>>16166270
>>16166263
That is not wrong, their fertility rates were never at the ridiculous ~1 levels of today

>> No.16166279

>>16166246
>muh modern medicine and technology

yeah no shit retard the 21st century has better hygiene and nutrition than the 8th doesn't change the fact of the morally and culturally bankrupt west today

>> No.16166287

>>16166260
There is a huge difference between the kind of work modern fruit pickers do and what a medieval peasant would have done

>> No.16166288

>>16166256
what the fuck is wrong with you, you ungrateful fuck. throw your computer out the window and start your own empire if you're so sure of yourself. the grass is always greener on the other side, you bubonic heathen. i hope you get raped by vikings

>> No.16166290

>>16166279
remember when 4chan used to hate on "moralfags" back in the day now thats all we get from these tourists

>> No.16166291

>>16161415
He looks like someone crapped on his face.

>> No.16166295

>>16166288
you are very upset about my stating a fact

>> No.16166301

>>16166279
>be medieval peasant
>can't read or write
>only exposure to art is a carving of a horse my neighbor did
>killed and raped by roving Germanic tribes
So moral, very cultured

>> No.16166305

>>16166256
are you horny for the head priest or something. do you miss eating your dead horse. i hope you encounter starvation and die of leprosy, at least before they burn you at the stake for being a dumbass

>> No.16166308

The only musicians from our times i see get analyzed hundreds of years from now is Dylan and Van Vliet. There might yet be hope for rap to obtain some skilled songwriters, however i highly doubt it will happen with the way its commercialized.

>> No.16166310

>>16166301
>die alone childless working 50 hours a week into old age consuming mass produced sterile garbage
very superior

>> No.16166316

>>16166305
I understand you're upset and looking for something to lash out at, I hope you feel better soon.

>> No.16166317

>>16166295
eat grass and die. you're mind is poisoned and acknowledging your existence is being claimed by anti-human marxist mind-virus

>> No.16166319

>>16166301
>be western man
>have ability to read and write
>choose to use this ability by posting all day on a chinese bask weaving forum about how great it is to do so

>> No.16166325

>>16166310
>guy can't get laid
>blames it on historical epoch

damn dude, get better copes

>> No.16166329

Rap is the end of musical history, it will be the dominant style of music until humans go extinct.

>> No.16166332

>>16166317
This sentence is not even coherent but I gather you think I'm a Marxist, which I am not. I'm not romanticizing medieval peasant life either, I'm just pointing out it was in fact better in some ways, and your hatred of it is bizarre and unfounded.

>> No.16166337

>>16166308
Rap is Dionysian, analyzing it for "songwriting" is misunderstanding it

>> No.16166339

>>16166319
cry some more about how your life sucks will you?nobody wants to hear your retarded spiel on how life was so much better back in the day, drown in an aqueduct full of shit and acquire syphilis, your lack of knowledge in world history is embarrassing if not a showcase to the broken foundational system you've acquired through hours of institutional brainwashing.

>> No.16166340

>>16166325
Fertility rate is close to 1 in most western countries for native population, many people die childless, and many people even with children die alone in a nursing home.

>> No.16166354

>>16166340
Are you a cat lady with a biological clock that's about to strike midnight? Why are you so obsessed with kids? You cry about having to work in an air conditioned office "50 hours a week", but you think having a bunch of kids won't make you do all kinds of bullshit work for the next 20 years? If a basic bitch office job is too much for you, you're not gonna be able to handle kids, you'd probably up ditching them like the slug you are, if you could even figure out how to get laid

>> No.16166358

>>16166339
I really don't understand retards like you who insist that modernity is objectively better in every single measurement than any other historical time period your lack of nuance and straw-manning is pathetic sad!

>> No.16166361

>>16166308
van vliet the biggest charlatan since pound.

>> No.16166362

>>16166332
You're whiny and ungrateful. You have little to know perspective of how lucky you are to be born on the turn of the millennia. You're free to transport yourself to whatever social class you like, and you have the freedom to pursue whatever interests you. If you're unsatisfied with your life, the only person you have to blame is yourself.

>> No.16166365

>>16166354
You are avoiding addressing the fact that a very large percent of the population is affected by this

>> No.16166369

>>16166358
Yeah, I remember my first year of my history degree too, I was like "what, you mean sometimes old stuff is better than new stuff? Mind fucking blown!" but that was a long time ago, you'll eventually get over it and realize the middle ages sucked

>> No.16166372

>>16166362
Try to think in terms of averages instead of anecdotes, and try to use nuance rather than black and white categories, your thinking is unclear and emotional

>> No.16166375

>>16166365
Affected by what? Not wanting to have kids? You can't even handle a job, how are you gonna raise kids?

>> No.16166378

>>16166375
you are avoiding addressing the fact that a large percentage of the population will die alone without a family, family being for most people what gives their lives the most meaning.

>> No.16166380

>>16166361
Well no, he obtained neither fame or money. Very few people actually know his music.

>> No.16166381

>>16166369
why do you keep comparing everything to the middle ages? is it because you know there a definite time periods where culture, science and art flourished far more than today?

>> No.16166389

>>16166378
You might be projecting a little bit there buddy, everyone I know has a family, most people do

>> No.16166398

>>16166389
Again the fertility rate approaches 1 for the native population in many countries, meaning a significant portion do not have a family. It is interesting how you can only think in terms of 'everyone I know' or what you imagine i am, you don't seem to grasp the concept of averages in society at large at all.

>> No.16166400

>>16166381
define "flourished"

>> No.16166403

>>16166400
I think I'll take my leave now ;))

>> No.16166406

>>16166398
People are choosing this. Why do you hate freedom? Again it all sounds like a cope for the fact that you are too ugly and stupid to have sex.

>> No.16166407

>>16166380
an awful lot of people know his music. ever been to mu?

>> No.16166410

>>16166372
>dumbass doesn't understand social mobility
>doesn't understand free speech
>doesn't understand seemingly infinite and open knowledge accessible to anyone with a library card

go tend to your sheep you dumb fuck

>> No.16166414

>>16166406
It is very naive to reduce complex social phenomena to 'people are choosing this', you sound like a 12 year libertarian.

>> No.16166416

>>16166410
For genetic dead ends like him, being a peasant might be an improvement, but it's best we let his failed genetics die for the good of humanity

>> No.16166425

>>16166410
That's what I mean about black and white thinking
>these are good things in the present
>therefore present good, past bad
Very childish

>> No.16166435

>>16166420
You don't seem to understand that childlessness has little to do with sex, and you are incapable of responding to what I say so you resort to lame insults

>> No.16166440
File: 274 KB, 422x600, Cool as Ice (1991) timthumb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16166440

>>16161415

>> No.16166441

>>16166425
if you dumb down someones argument then it will be dumb

>> No.16166445

>>16166425
>can't get laid
>if I were a peasant some poor woman would be forced to marry me (probably my cousin) and I would finally have sex
>therefor the middle ages are superior

you reek of cope

>> No.16166450

>>16163399
This is the gayest thing I've ever read

>> No.16166452

>>16161415
Ok since it seems everyone here is missing a chromosome I’ll answer
no, no one cares about nigger music. No one studies blues lyrics today. This is not poetry. Poetry bas been dead for a long time. Get over yourself faggot

>> No.16166455

>>16166441
That is the entirety of the argument posted, he just listed positive things as though their existence was proof that things are in general better now.

>> No.16166461

>>16166425
>you can't say good things about your argument because it makes me look bad

keep digging for that gold, the alchemist. maybe you'll grow up and do something in your life besides complain and ask for handouts

>> No.16166463

>>16166445
Again, try to think in terms of averages

>> No.16166468

>>16166407
Relative to how known the beatles are for example, no. Nobody knows beefheart. And of course ive been to /mu/, it (was) filled to the brim with the most autistic music listeners ever, so naturally its gonna be talked about there. You cant conclude from what you have seen on some music forum that someones music is widely known.

>> No.16166471

>>16166461
I never said there weren't things better about the present, I said there were also things better about the past. This is honestly something a 10 year old should be able to understand

>> No.16166474

>>16166463
Have sex.

>> No.16166483

>>16166471
Africa has a much higher birth rate, so by your logic Africa is the best place on Earth right now. As soon as the coof is over, why don't you emigrate? Move to Mali and have seven kids. Then you can finally have the impoverished illiterate diseased lifestyle you long for. Follow your dreams!

>> No.16166492

>>16166471
No you're some historical denier that wishes to paint the modern present as some degenerate hellscape. What the fuck is wrong with your brain? You should lay off of whatever you're reading because it's going to kill you slowly

>> No.16166496

>>16166483
There are indeed ways in which Africa is better than the West, anyone who visits it will come to the same conclusion, depending on where you're looking at. It has many serious problems that make it overall less attractive, but many Africans who have had the opportunity to move to the West will return back home to their community after having made some money, because they prefer it there.

>> No.16166506

>>16166492
It's not a hellscape, it's simply not better in all ways than the past. you underestimate how important it is for humans to have something resembling a tribe, which very many people don't anymore. Even the champions of modernity recognize this as a problem and talk about it, it's just dumb for you to ignore it.

>> No.16166509

>>16166496
>imagine being this desperate to have kids but totally unable to

Getting a job is a good first step, no one is gonna marry an unemployed loser.

>> No.16166514

>>16166509
Do you not feel a bit embarrassed that you can't actually reply to any of the points

>> No.16166521

>>16166468
right, if you compare him to the best-selling music act of all time, i guess he isn't so well known.
but if we were to, say, look at his wikipedia page vis a vis a band that i would say few people know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_Fellers_Union_Local_282
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Beefheart

>> No.16166525

>>16166514
Dude, everything you are writing is obviously a megacope, lets get to the heart of the issue: your inability to get laid, and like i said, it starts with you finally getting a job

>> No.16166536

>>16166455
wait he just listed reasons that things are better to present the conclusion that things are better eh?

>> No.16166537

>>16166536
Better in some ways, not in all, really how hard is it to understand such a simple idea

>> No.16166539

>>16166525
That's really not how arguments work

>> No.16166544

Jazz? Yeah.
Rap? No.

>> No.16166545

>>16166506
They're saying that we will resort to Tribalism if we don't find something to unite us soon; and it's no reason to discredit the scientific, humanitarian, and the continually growing standard of living . Reverting to the Middle Ages is a terrible self-destructive idea that can only be the thought of some power-hungry monarch looking to control more people

>> No.16166548

>>16166539
Copes aren't arguments.

>> No.16166555

>>16166537
in general i think was the phrase you used

>> No.16166556

>>16166545
and you're the dumbass believing in it

>> No.16166557
File: 268 KB, 638x1024, ad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16166557

>>16166544
POV: you just posted cringe

>> No.16166559

I hate failed white guys from the suburbs so fucking bad. Go to school, get a job, have sex.

>> No.16166563

>>16166544
all right cosby

>> No.16166566

>>16166548
I did actually make arguments, you just questioned my motives, which is not an argument at all. I thought you were just being evasive, but I've realized you actually don't understand what an argument is

>> No.16166568

>>16166566
Maybe if you didn't think every social interaction was an argument you could finally have sex.

>> No.16166569

>>16166545
No they're talking about the psychological need for community and family humans have.

>> No.16166573

>>16166568
This interaction is an argument, there is really no chance of you and i having sex

>> No.16166576

>>16166573
Have sex.

>> No.16166583

>>16166576
Im flattered but your personality isn't really doing it for me

>> No.16166588

>>16166583
You're never going to have sex are you? And how does that make you feel?

>> No.16166592

>>16166583
proper weirdo

>> No.16166593

>>16166588
I lost my virginity when I was 15, you

>> No.16166596

>>16166521
He is widely accepted as one of the greatest, and troubled, minds in music by most people with a high interest for the art. My point was that he is NOT some charlatan pretender doing a quick act for money and fame, as he got neither of those. Saying so is just irrational and stupid.

>> No.16166604

>>16161415
No. They're the cultural detritus of a decadent society. The kind of mentality that's allowed to flourish in that mileu is not conducive to historical thinking so there wouldn't really be anyone to the produce study material or anyone who could study

>> No.16166613

>>16166569
That sounds like a personal problem

>> No.16166618

>>16166593
your uncle was very happy that day

>> No.16166624

>>16166613
I don't even study this but they publish stuff of this sort all the time
https://escholarship.org/content/qt47n6790s/qt47n6790s.pdf

>> No.16166627

>>16166593
>sexually precocious teen
>rants and raves about degenerate society

it was uncle rape wasn't it?

>> No.16166635

>>16166596
>widely accepted
i wouldn't call that very few, would you
all i said is he was a charlatan. i.e. i don't think he was any good (except at behaving in a way to gull the gullible).

>> No.16166639

>>16166624
Yes, people have written about this shit since Durkheim's book on suicide 100 years ago. Instead of idolizing medieval poverty, why don't you get a book on social skills so you can get some friends.

>> No.16166646

>>16166627
It was my first girlfriend and I have done no ranting and raving, I have just pointed out a few things. You guys are the ones ranting and raving about the past like it was some constant nightmare.

>> No.16166666

>>16166639
So you're admitting it is a problem then? A problem that is likely getting worse and worse given how technology is affecting social interaction. I don't recall ever idolizing medieval poverty, though I will point out to you that during many periods peasants worked much less than average workers now.

>> No.16166669

>>16166635
Well no, he wasnt, because if his goal was easily earned fame and money in his lifetime, he wouldn't make albums like trout mask replica. Your logic is full of holes, just like most criticism of Beefheart. If you dont think he was very good, say that instead of misusing phrases to sound smart.

>> No.16166679

>>16161415
No, the future is poetry raped.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNxli0WDJKI

>> No.16166687

>>16166666
>work less
>have lower standard of living

obviously. you can do the same thing now, it's called a part time job.

>> No.16166695

>>16166635
Widely accepted amongst autistic nerds, not the general population or something like that. If his goal was to get easy money and fame he would have joined the beatles, learn to read you illiterate nigger

>> No.16166705

>>16166666
You must be stupid, every minute of their life was working, with all of the dust in their lungs the average life expectancy was 15 years old.

Are you asking if killing yourself is a problem? Actually commit suicide if you're being serious.

>> No.16166717

>>16166705
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/08/29/why-a-medieval-peasant-got-more-vacation-time-than-you/
>o. In fact, economist Juliet Shor found that during periods of particularly high wages, such as 14th-century England, peasants might put in no more than 150 days a year.

As for life expectancy it was more like 30 in bad times, and that's almost entirely due to infant mortality. Once you were a bit older you could easily live to 60 or more.

>> No.16166738

>>16166717
You wanna know why 14th century England had such high wages? Might have something do with famine and plague, woah, wait what, it's almost like have a lower population leads to a higher standard of living, it's almost like workers today not having 5 kids each is a kind of collective action

>> No.16166746

>>16166717
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_of_1315%E2%80%931317
>Jean-Pierre Leguay noted the Great Famine "produced wholesale slaughter in a world that was already overcrowded, especially in the towns, which were natural outlets for rural overpopulation."
>Estimates of death rates vary by place, but some examples include a loss of 10-15% in the south of England.

Ya, laborers in medieval England had more vacation days, all it took was a double digit percent mass death event! Man, the middle ages were so great!

Have sex.

>> No.16166748

>>16166738
It had a lot to do with the financial system, they worked fewer hours in the 13th and 15th centuries as well. And workers not having kids today is not a collective action, there is no organization or direction to it, it's a distributed reaction to incentives and environments.

>> No.16166767

>>16166746
see>>16166748 it was a persistently lower number of hours worked for centuries

>> No.16166784

>>16166767
That's sad. Today everyone has the possibility to find a fulfilling and satisfying career to make one's life's work. Imagine only being able to till a field 4 hours a day and then spend the rest of the time staring at the wall and beating your wife. Sad.

>> No.16166845

>>16166784
they did plenty of other stuff but yes today people have a wider range of things to choose from, and they are mostly spared the hard labor.

>> No.16167161

>>16161520
>oppressed until now
they've had 199 years to do something interesting, and when the blacks did come up with something it was the blues, which will likely continue to be studied for hundreds of years
meanwhile your shitposts about the trash the ghettos spit out will 404 in a matter of days, if not hours, and will be forgotten along with the refuse of humanity that is rap.

>> No.16167178

Some of it yea. A lot of it is total shit like Ops pic, but a good deal of rap and hip-hop gives a first hand account of being marginalized in the U.S. If people are willing to study the meaningless ramblings of The Beatles on LSD, and Pink Floyd crying about being rich and famous rockstars, I'd hope they'd have an appreciation for rappers who wrote about their life in poverty. Honestly once you get a job, start a family, and have to start supporting yourself the two most relatable genres of music become older country and hip-hop.

>> No.16167194

>>16167161
>the blues
the blues is built on the most basic bitch chord progression known to man, at least say jazz bruh

>> No.16167208

>>16167178
most rappers rap about being rich tho, you really won't find many "we wuz po" songs

>> No.16167223

>>16167194
jazz then. the fact that there is a difference that can be curated and pointed out speaks volumes on it's own.

>> No.16167264

>>16161426
>but most rap is so dumb and specific to its time
Yeah, but this is true for really any art form. I think youre right, though. The best stuff is of remarkable quality and will perservere, but a lots gonna go in the trash, which will make what does survive hard to decipher

>> No.16167415

>>16161520
Meh tier irony

>> No.16167940

>>16161415
No. But honest question, why isn't there more literary treatment of song lyrics and especially albums as a whole in general? Everything ranging from church hymns to popular music, through all the genres, rock, hip hop, whatever else. Music critics take this stuff seriously enough but music criticism (for popular music anyway) basically exists entirely outside the academy.

>> No.16167984

>>16161415
Only Eminem.

>> No.16169253

>>16161415
EVERYBODY GOING POP POP POP POP NIGGA
SOMEBODY CALL THE FUCKING DOCTOOOOR

>> No.16169287

>>16164568
When people start comparing rap, a pseudo-improvisational attempt to keep up with a simple 4/4 beat and impress the audience by bragging about their lives, to poetry, like capital P Poetry, I have to question whether they've actually read poetry on a serious level.

Like, could Coates read Yeats's "He wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" and pick up on how Yeats deliberately contrasts his first quatrain's dactylic beat with the second quatrain's anapestic metre to emphasise his narrator's bitter humility and better contradict his fantasies? Does he understand the sheer amount of effort, skill, and intelligence it takes to consciously manipulate the rhythm not of a sentence or a phrase, but of the very way each and every syllable itself is pronounced and arranged in order to represent a complex and emotional idea? To do this while maintaining a coherent grammatical and original rhyming structure AND while delivering a series of stunning images that range from religious ecstasy to poverty and psychological turmoil? To then subtly contradict this established structure in order to draw attention to yet another complex idea?

This isn't just a spread of internal rhymes, puns, and catchy slang; this is a man loading no more than eight lines with as much content as the English language allows.

Illmatic is a good album. Nas is a talented rapper. But to say that a 16 year-old kid from the projects operates at the level of a Nobel Prize-winning poet is absolute horseshit. No he fucking does not; he wrote his lyrics according to some DJ Premier beat and his own public image. You want to judge his writing as poetry? You want to look at his words when they're neutered from the music and live audience they were written to accompany? Okay, let's look. There is no coherent metre, let alone any conscious metrical technique. His rhyme scheme is all over the fucking place, and a lot of phrases were awkwardly forced in just to hit those incredibly simple end rhymes. The narrative is sloppy and its images are repetitive; he abandons ideas halfway through simply to survive until the next line. He brags about himself constantly and fills his story with non sequiturs that serve no purpose other than to highlight his knowledge of street slang and demonstrate how violent his life is.

As poetry, it's kind of trash. It's not very creative. It's definitely not skillful. It should be performed over music and never ever separated from it.

>> No.16169432

>>16169287
no one with a feeling for poetry would be able to write this

>> No.16169951

>>16169287
Difference is, Nas has soul and speaks about experiences he heard about from his peers while Yeats is a rich kid who can't even imagine himself in the shoes of a real person. Who cares about some gay dactylic beat when what you say has no authenticity behind it?

>> No.16169965

>>16169951
>soul
> a real person
>authenticity
is this bait

>> No.16170010

>>16169965
>not realizing the entire copy pasta is bait
White people yo.

>> No.16170023

>>16170010
yeah you should make sure you don't interact with any

>> No.16170055

>>16170023
A good rule to live by indeed.

>> No.16170123
File: 826 KB, 2048x2048, WAPPARTY.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16170123

>>16161415
compared to shakespeare, rappers today have certain lyrical dexterity that the victorian poet never possessed

>> No.16170467

>>16170123
To be fair, Willy was more about dick jokes. Think he only mentioned pussy twice through his entire works.

>> No.16171753

>>16163399
based white rapper

>> No.16171757

>>16166450
npc

>> No.16172994

wow that's so deep. He's a modern day tennysson. Definitely not just saying a load of meaningless shit just because it rhymes

>> No.16173005

>>16172994
Well, at least McGonagall could make something palatable from doing the same.

>> No.16173865

>>16161415
> Will the lyrics of rappers be studied a hundred years from now

Yes, in a hundred years it will be studied as a Satanic element. Around this exact time, AI robotic anthropologists will also be digging up your bones, in regards to the study of exterminated Earthly species.

>> No.16173933

>>16173865
Lol

>> No.16173975

>>16173865
Jokes on you I've got no bone since i started prozac

>> No.16175200

>>16161415
rap lyrics aren't poetry they are linguistic brutality

>> No.16175225

>>16161415
No
No one will care

>> No.16175355

HOL UP
LET ME GET IT STARTED
BBWITH THE ROBINS
LOOKIN ALL RETARDED

>> No.16175690

>>16175200
they said the same thing about martial

>> No.16175699

>>16167940
Because song lyrics have not and will not ever matter. The composition of the piece is more important.

>> No.16176064

>>16167178
Yes so marginalized that the most powerful entertainment companies in human history promoted their art.

Hip hop/rap is a dying craft. There are fucking pull up diaper commercials that are raping it now and it's borderline necrophilia.

There may be works within this genre worth giving serious study in the future, but not anything that has come within a country mile of contemporary commercialization.

>> No.16176136

>>16176064
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dnKAqDhCQU
>advertisements from the 90s are better than entire albums released in the 2010s

those st. ides special brew were so fucking good too, legit great product

>> No.16176141

>>16161455
this

>> No.16176449

>>16167208
What the fuck are you on? Almost all rap I've listened to is about how much it sucks to be poor or live in poverty. Even when a song is about being rich it's always in relation to how better it is than when they were poor.
>>16176064
Punk is also dead and used in commercials. Doesn't mean it never mattered. Rap had a huge cultural impact on America, especially in the 90s and 2000s. To pretend like it didn't is being willfully ignorant.

>> No.16176871

>>16161415
No to both.

>> No.16177450

>>16176141
>>16161455
Whites can't rap. They're too beta and literally built to be sissified fucktoys

>> No.16177703

I never understood why people get so butthurt over this. Can someone explain why they think it matters?

>> No.16177729

>>16161520
> FUCKIN A BITCH, FUCKIN A BITCH, SMOKIN SOME SHIT
no

>> No.16177750

>>16177729
extremely aggressive. made me feel so intimidated and it's just not what i expect to see on prime time tv

>> No.16177819

>>16177750
It's not that it's aggressive, it's that it's a child's conception of aggression. The only reason the aggression is allowed is because it's a amusing oddity with no real power behind it, just the impotent wailing of a defeated people. Defeated in the sense that it's post-political: at best used as ornamentation by a more serious project but never at the source of anything substantial

>> No.16177829

>>16161415
REAL NIGGA

WUICK TO PULL THE FUCKING TRIGGER

NOW IM WILIN IN READY FOR ALL THE VIOLENCE

>> No.16177857

>>16175355
THESE BITCHES THINK IM STOOPID

I AINT STOOPID

BON SIMME PULL UP TO THE CRIBBY UH

>> No.16177858

>>16177819
share your location

>> No.16179035 [DELETED] 

did u guys see 69 did a collabo with that gay ass flute guy from ed banger records? 45 mil views on youtube, yeah, ok you probably did, but did u see the original? its way more steezy, he got that sick french old man swag

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpjV962DLWs

>> No.16179039

U CAN TALK HOT ON THE INTERNET BOY

>> No.16179092

>>16161415
no for the same reason no one studies the big bopper's lyrics

>> No.16179211

probably not mumble rappers like 6ix9ine but rap albums like Kendrick Lamar's 'To Pimp a Butterfly' are masterpieces and will be studied years from now.

>> No.16179213

>>16179211
kandrick lamar is so fucking wack

>> No.16179468

New Nas album just came out on Apple Music, bet it's gonna be highly cringe

>the stupidest part of Africa produced blacks that started algebra

didn't even make it through one track with cringing out, ugh this is so awful, i'm going to listen to the new Killers album instead, deal with it.

>> No.16179486

>>16179468
>it makes crackers mad
Sounds like decent advertisement. Almost makes me want to check it out but I don't want to be disappointed again. The last decent album he made was Stillmatic.

>> No.16179504

>>16179486
it didn't make me mad, it's just fucking corny.

>> No.16179518

>>16179486
i bet the only good song will the one with the A$AP Ferg feature, he always puts together a decent single for people

>> No.16179536

>>16179518
At least from skimming over it, you seem right. Though "good" is really stretching it. It's so sad seeing this fall, he should've just quit after Street Disciple.

>> No.16179540

And in the line "bitch nigga snitch nigga ho" we see expression of a theme of...

>> No.16179541

>>16179486
what the fuck he reused the sample from that fast life song with kool g rap? bad move cuz all it does is remind me how good that was, first time I heard it on one of those blown out clue tapes, sounding mad authentic. this new shit is just not good, the beat is wack, waste of a classic sample, and needless to say "lil durk" is no kool g rap

>> No.16179671

>>16163629
No the media of our time will remind later generations that they weren't

>> No.16179704

>>16161520
N

>> No.16179736
File: 170 KB, 729x1097, helm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16179736

It's really not much different from 8th-12th century skaldic poetry. Sure, there's a bit more structure to a skaldic poem, but a lot of it was dissing other people, boasting, and political talk. Nobody knows for certain, but it's likely that skaldic poems were meant to be performed for an audience, probably accompanied by music as well.
It might be studied in the future, especially if someone writes some narrative to go along with them.

>> No.16180365

>>16179504
you listen to the killers though mate

>> No.16180455

>>16179039


Drop the addy nigga we rolling

>> No.16180765

stoner metal will be the one that will be studied lyrically
screencap this

>> No.16180913

>>16163057
>>16162756
>>16161833
love it


>>16163057
>>16162756
>>16161833
love it


I think some of the zoomers in the US like me grew up respecting Hip Hop as an art form because they were opened minded enough to try and appreciate it before they were able to dismiss it, presumably because it's "low" culture and alien to, for lack of a better term, the growing remnants of WASPish aspirations and pretensions in American whites. It's impossible to ignore due to the cultural prevalence of the hip hop culture in fashion, music, social media, and youth culture at large. This ubiquity in itself would suggest usefulness to anyone looking to understand youth culture.
So take me for instance, I was interested in other dorky genres of music I discovered through the internet but developing an appreciation for hip hop made it possible to have a shared social musical experience for me in High School and College and therefore provided a basis for some kind of tacit group identification/understanding: basically it made you feel like you fit into a group of people, but after a short while it also functions as being a teacher of culture: what is america other than a bunch of rich people mentally jerking themselves off to the torture porn that is poverty so they can feel anything visceral at all, having lived in pure security. It is plenty like tales of conquest and love and spirtuality. From a purely musical standpoint, I think it's affirmed the beat as the framework for future commercial works of popular music, and it accomplished that by weaving in narrative devices into the works at large and proving like rock music, flexible enough to assimilate other styles of music in the process.