/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16160176]

Halfway through this. When does it get good? I swear every American novel I've read is so dry and boring. The writing is always so plain and matter-of-fact. When you read it, it's so painfully American. The plot of this book is rather dull as well. Not really sure what Williams is trying to get at. Another dull American novel hyped up by WASP pseudo-intellectuals who've never read any serious literature outside of their mediocre and bloated country?

[Anonymous No.16160190]

>>16160176
R E N T F R E E
E
N
T
F
R
E
E

[Anonymous No.16160230]

mfw op tries to criticize a novel he can't understand instead of bothering to finish it and develop his own opinion, equating it to a shitty country as if its patriots actually go on this board to give a shit.

finish the book and keep ur mind open its not a hard read. if ur not enjoying it then don't bother bro, your not gonna like something if you try to criticize every aspect about it at every turn lmao

[Anonymous No.16160232]

>>16160190
Apart from a few writers such as Poe, American literature is quite mediocre. You can memespeak your cope as much as you want, but you can't refute that.

[Anonymous No.16160245]

>>16160232
Lovecraft>Poe

[Anonymous No.16160265]

>>16160230
I'm already halfway through so I'll finish it, but I'm hoping it gets better. As for understanding, it's quite a simple book as I've already pointed out. The language and ideas could be described as amateur, basic, mediocre, pedestrian, small-minded, irrelevant, uninteresting, etc.

[Anonymous No.16160272]

>>16160245
This opinion is one of the true marks of the intellectual plebeian on this board. Lovecraft isn't even a good writer in the first place. Poe was revolutionary and highly influential, even obtaining international renown, which Lovecraft has yet to accomplish, his fanbase mostly being a small group of misfit incels on R*ddit and 4channel.

[Anonymous No.16160281]

>>16160272
I think LC was popularized by D&D since they used a lot of his tropes as part of their game. Then this trickled down into the games and media that they inspired and now it's become a household name.

[Anonymous No.16160300]

>>16160272
I simply enjoy Lovecraft's prose more. Poe has a very loquacious style of writing and Lovecraft's stories are simply more interesting to me, personally of course.

[Anonymous No.16160319]

>>16160281
You're kidding yourself if you think Lovecraft is a household name. Nicki Minaj is a household name is America; hardly anyone except a bunch of nerds and losers knows who Lovecraft is.
>>16160300
Fair enough. Perhaps in the future I'll give Lovecraft another chance. But I do prefer Poe, I think he was a fascinating writer and I really love the Gothic writers.

[Anonymous No.16160375]

>>16160319
>hardly anyone except a bunch of nerds and losers knows who Lovecraft is.
You'd be surprised. The new generation of zoomers have been raised on television and videogames, the nerds and losers you speak of, and those things have been certainly been influence by LC's work (through the channel I spoke of above). Many of them are familiar with the author, even if not his works. Indeed, LC even has a word coined after his name, "lovecraftian", but Poe has no such distinction (poetic is taken, though rather appropriate).

[Anonymous No.16160376]

>>16160176
WASP intellectuals haven't been the predominant part of the american intelligentsia for 60 years.

[Anonymous No.16160390]

>>16160265

What are some of your favorite books, OP? I don't mean this in a combative way, Stoner is one of my favorite novels (though I don't read as much fiction as others), and I'd like to see where you're coming from. For what it's worth, a lot of American literature, barring the postmodern stuff, tends to be fairly unadorned (Like Hemingway or Steinbeck), so it's partly an aesthetic. I don't like it either as much, but in some books like Stoner the writing seems to adequately reflect the stoicism with which William Stoner faces the world. I don't think the emotional content of the book would work with a more flowery language.

[Anonymous No.16160463]

>>16160176
>dry and boring. The writing is always so plain and matter-of-fact
That’s a deliberate point of the book you mong

[Anonymous No.16160474]

>>16160375
Perhaps you're right. If that's the case then, I suppose it's a good thing. I'm happy people would be reading, even if it's not literature that I'm particularly fond of. It's also somewhat reassuring that literature can still have such a profound impact on other aspects of art, even if it's the lesser arts like TV and video games.
>>16160390
>the writing seems to adequately reflect the stoicism with which William Stoner faces the world
I do agree with this and the sort of necessity of the style to reflect the content. I guess it's just not my cup of tea. I do think John Williams is a better writer than other American writers who had a similar style like Hemingway, Fitzgerald, etc. Hemingway seemed to confuse terseness with literary virtue, and I think his work suffered from its own rigidity. I don't think Stoner suffers from its own rigidity, I see it as part of the story, but I don't find it very enjoyable to read.

Some novels I've enjoyed lately are:
>"Livro do desassossego", Pessoa
>"Memórias Póstumas de Brás Cubas", de Assis
>"Il Gattopardo", Lampedusa

But I mostly read poetry. I really love Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Mallarmé, Lautréamont, and others in that same vein. I've been trying to read more prose in English lately, which led me to Stoner, but I don't know, I hope to find stuff that I'll enjoy more in the future in the English language.

[Anonymous No.16160479]

>>16160474
pessoa is shit lol

[Anonymous No.16160515]

>>16160479
Why do you say so, anon?

[Anonymous No.16160574]

>>16160515
>500 pages of "i'm so depressed"
you might like notes from the underground

[l'chaim !!NW31gwdgGBV No.16160604]

>>16160176
America #1. Go to hell Eurotard.
But seriously how can you say Americans have boring prose when we have Faulkner?

[Anonymous No.16160615]

>>16160474
>I suppose it's a good thing. I'm happy people would be reading, even if it's not literature that I'm particularly fond of
I wouldn't say they are reading. I also wouldn't be so reassured about literature having an impact. What's true 50 years ago is certainly not true now. Modern culture is increasingly moving toward a "metafranchise" model, an intersection of mediums, books, games, and film to maximize profit. People know what lovecraftian horror is not from The Dunwitch Horror or The Call of Cthulu but from a game like Dark Souls or a tv show like True Detective. If people are reading, other than a small population of elites (mostly other writers and academics), they're reading some derivative of existing media. Just looking at the top sellers on amazon books is enough to lose faith in the continuing relevance of literature.

[l'chaim !!NW31gwdgGBV No.16160624]

>>16160474
>Hemingway seemed to confuse terseness with literary virtue
No he didn't. He wrote in tight, stripped prose because that's what he wanted to write.

[Anonymous No.16160652]

>>16160574
Either you didn't finish the book, or you're deliberately arguing in bad faith, or you're incapable of understanding the subtleties of the book. Book of Disquiet is a very thoughtful book; depression is a marginal theme in the book. You could even argue that the book has nothing to do with depression at all. It's a book about the imaginative faculties, the possibilities of dreaming, artistic expression/engagement as an antidote to the bourgeois mediocrity of the day-to-day, aesthetic pursuit as an escape from the nihilistic tendencies of modernity, the power of human sensibility as a transcendent force that gives even the most dull and boring lives a sense of redemptive adventure. Maybe try actually reading it next time.
>>16160604
Haven't much got into Faulkner. Maybe I'll give him a chance. What's a good place to start with him?

[Anonymous No.16160950]

Edith gets the Karen bob haircut and becomes an evil more total bitch? Okay, now this is funny.

[Anonymous No.16160987]

>>16160176
>What did you expect?

[Anonymous No.16161029]

>>16160652
its a grown man/incel whining for 500 pages about how detached and lonely he is. not special

[Anonymous No.16161090]

>>16161029
I'm convinced you haven't read it.
>>16160615
I suppose that you're right. It's a shame. I wish literature still had an impact, but there is a lack of both serious readers and serious writers. The gap is being filled with lesser media and in general everything is degraded. But do think anyone read Lovecraft after interacting indirectly with his stuff via games, TV, etc.? If so, maybe there is still some hope.

[Anonymous No.16161115]

>>16161090
>I'm convinced you haven't read it.
don't worry i read that shit. that's the best portugal has to offer too lol

[Anonymous No.16161118]

>>16160176
>When does it get good?
It never gets good, it's fiction.

[Anonymous No.16161130]

>>16160176
If Stoner's first seminar on Renaissance poetry doesn't trigger an insatiable drive to devour the classics, then you're hopelessly lost. I'm not going to speak about the rest of the novel. There's so much good stuff in there. It was hard to begin, I agree, but it felt that way due to artistic reasons more than anything else, a lack of Stoner's own elevated consciousness.

[Anonymous No.16161138]

>>16161115
Doubt.
>>16160987
Is this movie good?

[Anonymous No.16161150]

>>16161138
>Doubt
cope. keep reading shitty poetry tho

[Anonymous No.16161175]

>>16161150
>he thinks Book of Disquiet is poetry
Did you even bother to google it before shitposting about it?
>>16161130
>If Stoner's first seminar on Renaissance poetry doesn't trigger an insatiable drive to devour the classics, then you're hopelessly lost.
Haven't got to this part yet, but I hope it's good. Gives me something to look forward to. I did like the bits in the beginning where Stoner is getting his undergraduate degree and feeling a budding passion for literature. I was hoping for more literature talk but instead got a courtship sequence. I'm always bored in novels when courtship, marriage, etc. are involved. Feel like it's almost never done in an interesting way and it's always so predictable.

[Anonymous No.16161183]

>>16161138
No its quite bad

[Anonymous No.16161192]

>>16161183
Oh, I see. I've been trying to watch more films lately. If you have any recs, let me know.

[Anonymous No.16161203]

>>16161175
>Did you even bother to google it before shitposting about it?
You're fucking retarded, this is my last reply to your ESL dumbass
>But I mostly read poetry. I really love Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Mallarmé, Lautréamont, and others in that same vein.

[Anonymous No.16161217]

>>16161203
All of those poets are great.
>this is my last reply
>announcing his last reply
Really gay, anon. I suggest you return to R*ddit. And I'm not ESL, I was born trilingual. Cope harder, monoglot scum.

[Anonymous No.16161226]

>>16160176
>The writing is always so plain and matter-of-fact.
Take you foresooths and verilys and blow them out your ass

[Anonymous No.16161236]

>>16161226
>verily
But my KJV... anon, I--

[Anonymous No.16161245]

I agree that american literature is pretty poor overall but Stoner is one of the few goid ones, your shit is whack OP.

[Anonymous No.16161259]

>>16161245
>your shit is whack
Please, if you're going to speak to me, refrain from using the Negro dialect. I'm not a fan of such vulgar and degraded language. Take you boom-cluck-boom dialect to R*ddit.

[Anonymous No.16161275]

>>16161192
Pierrot Let Fou
Eros + Massacre
The Last Battle
Two-Lane Blacktop
Himiko

[Anonymous No.16161291]

>>16161259
You mad cuz I'm stylin on you?

[l'chaim !!NW31gwdgGBV No.16161295]

>>16160652
>What's a good place to start with him?
The most common starting ground for Faulkner is either Light in August or As I Lay Dying, both great. I personally prefer As I Lay Dying to the former, but it can go either way for many people.
Most people will probably tell you that they started off having read "A Rose for Emily" in high school, which is a short story, but also worth checking out.
I don't suggest starting with Pylon, Mosquitoes or The Wild Palms as all of those are not set in Yoknapatawpha, which is an area that is essential to Faulkner.
Go Down, Moses is a great start if metafiction or anthology is more your thing.
I suggest you read at least one of these previously mentioned novels before jumping into The Sound and the Fury though, just to get a feel for what Faulkner's all about, otherwise you may open it up and think it's just schizo ramblings (which it almost is for the first quarter of the book).
Save Absalom, Absalom! for last whatever you do.

[Anonymous No.16161912]

>>16161275
Okay, thanks anon! I'll look into them.
>>16161295
Wonderful, anon. I'm happy our friendly provocation has ended in discussion of literature. I do remember reading snippets of The Sound and the Fury and being awestruck at them, almost read like a prose poem. I'll start with one of the ones you mentioned though. I want to go deeper into English prose.

[Anonymous No.16161957]

>>16160176
>Another dull American novel hyped up by WASP pseudo-intellectuals who've never read any serious literature outside of their mediocre and bloated country?
You basically got it all in this one question. This is completely what it is.

[Anonymous No.16161965]

>>16161275
>Pierrot Let Fou
Its Le, you dumb amerimutt.

[Anonymous No.16162012]

>>16160300
>I simply enjoy Lovecraft's prose more
Holy shit amerifarts are so fucking stupid. Please for the love of god read more books and stop plainly saying prose when you have no idea what you're talking about and at this point you are just regurgitating words you heard on /lit/

[Anonymous No.16162015]

>>16162012
There is nothing wrong with what he said, I don't think you know what prose means

[Anonymous No.16162026]

>>16161965
Phoneposting typo big fella, try not to lose any sleep over it

[Anonymous No.16162072]

>>16162015
You clearly have poor comprehension skills if thats what you got from what I wrote. Go back to regurgitating words samefag while you read your entry level novels

[Anonymous No.16162081]

>>16162072
You're not really smart enough for this, you could lie about being good at sports instead

[Anonymous No.16162094]

>>16162081
>ur dumb
Jesus you fiction fags really need to try harder. Again stop regurgitating words you heard on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.16162109]

>>16162094
>I'm smart because I read book
No anon, unfortunately you're not, even when it's a big boy non-fiction book.

[Anonymous No.16162110]

>bro ive read all the entry level novels /lit/ has recommended the prose is so guud bros!!! I have no idea why and can't tell you why but the prose is magnificent!!!

[Anonymous No.16162113]

>>16162109
>>I'm smart because I read book
>No anon, unfortunately you're not, even when it's a big boy non-fiction book.
Sounds like projection to me which seems to fit since you were the retard going on about:
>muh prose!!! in entry level fiction!!!!

[Anonymous No.16162119]

>>16162113
>>16162110
Anon it is not normal to have a mental breakdown because you saw someone say they liked one writer's style better than another's, I hope you feel better.

[Anonymous No.16162125]

>>16162119
>ur mad
This is the level of wit of a fictionfag that says things like:
>Why yes of course I think lovecraft has splendid prose

[Anonymous No.16162131]

>>16162119
>dude ur mad and everyone else is mad but me
Can you show your asshurt anymore?

[Anonymous No.16162140]

>>16162131
>>16162125
deep breaths

[Anonymous No.16162147]

>>16162140
Newfag we all know you are that very lovecraft fanboy so now explain instead of regurgitating words you heard on /lit/ why you like the prose brainlet

Also
>deep breaths
You newfags are so cancerous

[Anonymous No.16162149]

the problem with realism is that it leads americans to believe there may be merit in describing their banal existence, and it leads to mediocrities like cheever and delillo

[Anonymous No.16162164]

>on a literature sub but can only say u mad and omegerd the prose!!!
Do americans really?

[Anonymous No.16162169]

>>16162149
Incredibly based. 100% true.

[Anonymous No.16162221]

>>16162149
I liked Cheever's The Enormous Radio. Haven't read anything by Delilo though.

[Anonymous No.16162273]

>>16162164
>sub

[Anonymous No.16162353]

>>16162164
>sub
The lovecraft fag is a pleb but you need to go back.

[Anonymous No.16162474]

>>16162273
>>16162353
>falling for such obvious bait
You newfags need to go back.

[Anonymous No.16162551]

>>16162474
>makes a mistake and reveals the Redditor within
>haha it was bait got you
Cringe

[Anonymous No.16162577]

>>16162551
I'm not him, but he's clearly fucking with you guys and dabbing on you. You're getting trolled like a rookie, buddy.