/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16153283]

Does 2b2t.org prove the Dark Forest theory?

[Anonymous No.16153298]

>>16153283
Because new players get killed? Explain your reasoning here.

[Anonymous No.16153325]

>>16153298
The meta for survival is that the longer a base survives, the further out it has to be and the more precautions the player(s) have to make to make sure that it never ever gets found. Essentially, the meta of 2b2t is to try as hard as possible to never ever get found. PLayers take autistic measures to do this, like digging underground for a million blocks and covering up every block behind them. Any base that gets found WILL be destroyed.

[Anonymous No.16153328]

>>16153283
A rebuttal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCTmgavkrQ

[Anonymous No.16153424]

Alright, let me explain my reasoning in full.

In true anarchy servers, there are absolutely no server provided protections or punishments for anything you do. The admins/mods are just providing a world, no more. This effectively creates a proper causal universe with no divine intervention. If something happens, only other players can take action regarding it. You might think the gameplay would just be endless warring close to the spawn, but this isn't actually the case. Players on the server do actually like to make large builds and cities and these would simply not be possible if everyone knew where they were. Because the server runs 24/7, the chances of you actually being online at the same time that someone else finds your base is somewhere around 1%. Especially because of the speeds and hacked clients involved, the chances of someone getting to your base once they discover its location is guaranteed. There are dedicated griefers on the server who WILL destroy your base if they find it, and who will destroy any base they find. You won't know yourself if a base YOU found belonged to one of these griefers or not. tl,dr; this has the effect of making any defense of a known base impossible. It simply can't be done. The only way to avoid destruction is to avoid detection. And players do, they build bases out in the tens of thousands of kilometers away from the spawn, and they go to autistic lengths to cover their tracks. They will also destroy or make useless the bed of any player they find, because if that player has a chance of being a griefer, it means all YOUR progress is lost. This creates a very Dark-Forest like scenario, in fact, it IS a Dark Forest. You can only survive if your location is never, ever found. It's not just a paranoid theory either, all the known bases are routinely destroyed, and the players spawn points destroyed or, worse, covered in lava and effectively preventing the player from ever being able to play on the server again.

Now the real question might be: why would you play on a server just to have to work really hard to achieve the same environment as a single player world.

[Anonymous No.16153473]

Real life is not a video game. People do not behave in games how they would in real life. Historically civilizations have cooperated more than they have destroyed one another

[Anonymous No.16153480]

>>16153473
>Historically civilizations have cooperated more than they have destroyed one another
Not sure how one would measure this but there has been a lot of destruction anyway you look at it.

[Anonymous No.16153488]

>>16153480
Massive raids aren't the same as rigging a village with dynamite. When you raid a village, you take what is important, kill the ones you don't need, and leave the rest. You don't kill all villagers in every village, that would be idiotic and fool hardy. You'd never be able to get a book of mending. Just because you destroy some houses and take their work stations doesn't mean that they aren't willing to cooperate with you either. They'll still sell you goods

[Anonymous No.16153504]

>>16153283
This really isn’t a /lit/ related question. I’m assuming dark forest theory applies to aliens. It’s a big guess to say that aliens operate under the same imperatives that humans do. It also supposed that the density of life is high enough so that such a scenario would arise. We’ve haven’t been very quiet and yet we are still here

[Anonymous No.16153537]

>>16153480
We have had the capacity to totally annihilate ourselves more or less from the start of time, and have yet to do so. As much as we tend toward destruction, meaninglessness and selfishness, the fact we are still fucking here is a testament to the fact that we value creation, meaning and society more. These games provide a space for our worst impulses consequence free

[Anonymous No.16153542]

>>16153283
the what for the what?

[Anonymous No.16153662]

>>16153473
>>16153488
>>16153537
The existence of Relativistic Kinetic Kill Vehicles changing warfare on a fundamental level. When your fastest weapon is just as fast as the fastest possible transmission of information, you get a sort of reverse MAD deterrence scenario.
>>16153504
How so? The theory comes from several book series. Is /lit/ only for the meta-discussion of literature?

[Anonymous No.16153771]

>>16153424
Make it so that if you die in the game you die in real life and see how the server dynamics change in response

[Anonymous No.16154053]

>>16153771
Or as a more realistic alternative to this, have some anarchist server in which if you die you are permabanned, creating incentive to stay alive whilst still being plausible to set up

[Anonymous No.16154412]

>>16154053
>have some anarchist server in which if you die you are permabanned
this is essentially what bed traps do though

[Anonymous No.16154459]

>>16153662
Yes and the real blackpill is that se basically anounced our location with voyager probe. Any space faring civ knows game theory so its over for us

[Anonymous No.16154539]

>>16154412
>bed traps
That is an extremely specific way of killing someone that could conceivably be reversed by a friend, you know it’s not the same as a permaban for literally any death, most deaths on anarchy servers do not occur by bedtrap, so they are irrelevant and my point stands

[Anonymous No.16156103]

>>16153283
yes

[Anonymous No.16156158]

>>16153283
Is th–is this /lit/?

[Anonymous No.16156335]

>>16153283
The consequences are greatly reduced on 2b2t, everyone is on roughly the same power level, and it's far, far easier to hide what you're doing. In real life there's almost certainly more species watching you at all times who might decide that you need to be held accountable for genocide, or at least ones who'd gladly do unto you as you've done unto other species (and you'd better hope it's the former, because the latter will send entire volleys of relativistic kill missiles without warning). If a given species goes full dark forest they'll be in a constant state of war with the entire galaxy. Even if they win that by some miracle, they'd next have to fight the local galactic supercluster.

[Anonymous No.16156972]

>>16156335
I thought the point was that speed of light limits communication so any UN style accountability or any diplomacy really is impossible. Even if you were watched any action you could take would be known to people watching hundreds of years after youve done it. That creates scenario that >>16153662 describedm anyway I guess real argument against dark forest and relativistic kill missile is that we would find some sign of interstellar warfare by know

[Anonymous No.16157077]

>>16156972
Other civilizations will see you coming and start preparing. You can't even hide your own planets, much less what you're doing to other people's planets.

[Anonymous No.16157262]

>>16157077
>Other civilizations will see you coming and start preparing
I don't think you understand the beauty of RKKVs. Every ship is also a weapon, and it also cannot be detected upon launch because, well, by the time you detect the launch you have about 10 minutes before your planet has a huge hole in it and no lifeforms. The creation and launch of an RKKV is simple enough that you would not detect it. In fact, we could already be considered an RKKV capable planet, which is very bad news for us. Just for reference, the highest rated of version of this ship, which we not only designed but had the materials and launcher for, would have an impact force of around 119 gigatonnes. That is easily enough to make an entire planet uninhabitable between fires, earthquakes, and fallout, not to mention the initial planet-wide 3rd degree burns.

[Anonymous No.16157267]

>>16153283
The oldest anarchy server in minecraft.

[Anonymous No.16157358]

>>16153283
No, don't think so. It's too prone to griefing to be indicative of anything. You can see elsewhere how the spawn area has steadily become more and more uninhabitable over time, it's only a matter of time until the playerbase realizes the best way to protect their base is to simply prevent other people from participating in the game.

[Anonymous No.16157533]

>>16157262
And what happens when it hits its target? Surely other civilizations would notice a catastrophe of that magnitude on a planet they were watching?

[Anonymous No.16157620]

>>16157533
Its not like you can deduce origin of missile from impact. Imagine if humanity found proof it happened to few planetes already. If anything it would force us to adapt same tactics of staying low and striking first. Maybe thats why you dont see any dyson spheres/swarms, anybody who build them got rekt

[Anonymous No.16157632]

>>16157358
That proves the theory, though: eliminate the risk and eventuality of destruction by eliminating (in this case preventing) new players

[Anonymous No.16157805]

This doesn't apply to space because hiding is impossible. Every inhabitable planet is broadcasting the existence of live for billions of years before intelligence evolves and the technology required to sterilize every planet in the galaxy is pretty basic. We could do it today. It would take centuries to build it, but doesn't require any new science.

[Anonymous No.16158018]

all of this shit is infantile anthropomorphism based on literally nothing

[Anonymous No.16158363]

>>16153473
This. Half the point of the server is to destroy shit other people create. Real life isn't a minecraft anarchy server, especially one that got famous for people destroying things

[Anonymous No.16158394]

>>16158018
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma
Its based on the fact that every civilization (humanoid or not) capable of launching rockets knows basic math

[Anonymous No.16158428]

>>16153283
Nah , they got swarmed from youtube exposure and now the servers are full.

[Anonymous No.16158684]

>>16153283
what is with the 21st century and these reddit-tier sciencefag "theories"

[Anonymous No.16158899]

>>16153424
Just travel by the nether

[Anonymous No.16158924]

>>16153328
based lisp space autist