/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16142101]

>never read a book properly
>decide do dive in this quarantine, and become a better person
>START WITH THE GREEKS!
>the second book is this iliad
>its hard and complex as shit for me
I feel like there's a monstrous gap between the Iliad and my reading comprehension. Is this a normal thing? How can I absorb anything about the book if I can barely understand it? I feel like I should read dozens of books before reading The Iliad.

[Anonymous No.16142114]

>>16142101
What is it that makes the text difficult for you?

[Anonymous No.16142129]

>>16142114
How the sentence is structured, organized. Should I go after some simplified version or something like that?

[Anonymous No.16142138]

>>16142101
You sound pretty dumb, so perhaps start with kids classics? Maybe Treasure Island?

[Anonymous No.16142151]

>>16142138
>You sound pretty dumb
Yea, sorry.
>so perhaps start with kids classics? Maybe Treasure Island?
Interesting idea, thanks.

[Anonymous No.16142161]

>>16142101
Start with the Greeks is a meme retard.
No one who hasn't been memed by /lit/ would actually think that was a sensible thing to do.

[Anonymous No.16142163]

>>16142161
What's the best introduction, then?

[Anonymous No.16142166]

>>16142101
>>its hard and complex as shit for me
Haha, is this American education? I read this in elementary school.

[Anonymous No.16142176]

>>16142163
A modern classic, maybe. What are your interest?

[Anonymous No.16142179]

>>16142163
Introduction to what?
Philosophy? Literature?

[Anonymous No.16142190]

>>16142101

[Anonymous No.16142194]

>he doesn't know

[Anonymous No.16142195]

>>16142101
Yeah this isn't a good book to start your literary journey. First of all, the Iliad has about a million translations, all of which have different goals. For instance, Lattimore's translation aims at fidelity, while Fitzgerald's tries to be more poetic. Fagles is somewhere in between. But I think new readers should probably try Lombardo's which is a modern translation that uses plain language. The other versions do not aim at general readership which is why I think novice readers struggle with them sometime.

[Anonymous No.16142200]

>>16142101
What did you read before this

[Anonymous No.16142201]

>>16142194
Not OP, and I have read this book, but why exactly are you posting this here? "lol le ancient greeks were unconscious!"

[Anonymous No.16142202]

filtered by the ship catalogue - again

[Anonymous No.16142217]

>>16142176
>>16142179
>What are your interest?
I really want to go deep in philosophy and poetry. I also want to read fiction, but not right now.
I feel like those are two naturally complex segments of literature, so I'm starting to think that maybe I need some introductory, spoonfed book that presents ideas and authors on a simplified way. I'd enjoy some classics as recomendation, though.
>>16142190
>>16142194
Interesting, thank you. Will consider these.
>>16142195
Thank you, anon.
>>16142200
The Nicomachean Ethics and Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, as far as I remember.

[Anonymous No.16142236]

don't listen to the anons telling you that starting with the greeks is a meme
that is the meme
just keep reading, looking up words as needed, and you'll get better at it like anything else

[Anonymous No.16142246]

>>16142217
Start with Seamus Heaney, then.

[Anonymous No.16142254]

>>16142217
>nicomachean ethics
why did you read this if you can't understand iliad?

[Anonymous No.16142281]

>>16142246
Thank you for the recommendation. Will go for it.
>>16142254
I found it on my house, and I gave it a try. I obviously didn't understand completely what its trying to express, but I've managed to absorb interesting concepts and ideas. I feel like I grew up a bit more. I've never had contact with this side of human expression before, you know.

[Anonymous No.16142284]

>>16142217
>I really want to go deep in philosophy

[Anonymous No.16142289]

>>16142217
So start with a something that will give you good introductory overview of philosophy, there's plenty available. Don't jump in at the deep end of Greek philosophy you'll probably drown.

[Anonymous No.16142297]

Still remember being a teen and trying to read the Iliad and palpably feeling holy shit I do not understand this, why doesn't anything do what I expect it to do, why is it so different from my normal junk food narratives I'm used to

I remember it was partly discouraging and frustrating but partly exciting because I knew somehow on some level that I couldn't stagnate at the junk food level where everything is easy and tidy forever, and that being able to read and appreciate the Iliad meant being an adult in some very important way that not even most adults attain to nowadays

It's beautiful how much the mind and soul can grow over time. I almost said change but change implies that the initial state is lost in the transition, but growth maintains the original state and develops it. I wish I could capture how I felt as a teenager reading the Iliad in my mom's kitchen for the first time and being frustrated, I can almost see it clearly but it's fleeting and I worry that it will be lost forever. I only remembered it by chance because of this thread. Thank you OP.

[Anonymous No.16142298]

>>16142217
So start with something that will give you good introductory overview of philosophy, there's plenty available. Don't jump in at the deep end of Greek philosophy you'll probably drown.

[Anonymous No.16142307]

>>16142281
Keep up the good work, fren. At least relating to philosophy, it wasn't until 1 and a half year ago that I gave Plato's Symposium a try.

Fast forward, now I am attempting at Being and Time (Heidegger).

[Anonymous No.16142308]

>>16142284
Thank you for this.
I have a question, though.
Is The Bible itself considered a philosophical work, or its featured here because of its influence on posterior philosophers?
>>16142289
>>16142298
Thank you for the advice, anon.
>>16142297
Thank you. I hope I'll look behind my struggle with Iliad after decades of reading just like you do. Working on it.

[Anonymous No.16142314]

>>16142308
Technically is a religious book, but it can be considered a philosophical book in the same way The Magic Mountain can be.

[Anonymous No.16142317]

>>16142246
based, Seamus is fucking great. I'm planning to visit his grave next sometime this year.

[Anonymous No.16142809]

>>16142101
Fagles is a shit translation.

[Anonymous No.16142813]

>>16142284
Philosophy is for midwits

[Anonymous No.16142994]

>>16142101
>>16142129
>>16142151
OP, challenging yourself is the good part. Read slow and use secondary sources if you need to. Don't be afraid to re-read (in fact, you'll get more out of it on the re-read every time). It's time to work hard and prove to yourself that you're not retarded. Anyone with a smartphone and some willpower can read anything. Conquer the Illiad.

[Anonymous No.16143051]

>>16142190

this is edgy af

[Anonymous No.16144547]

>>16142809
Fagles is the best translation.

[Anonymous No.16144873]

>>16142809
cringe
>>16144547
based

[Anonymous No.16144909]

>>16142101
>he fell for the START WITH THE GREEKS meme

start with the Americans you idiot

[Anonymous No.16144922]

>>16142190
This makes much more sense for a beginner than sTaRt Wth tHe gReEkS

[Anonymous No.16145623]

>>16144909
Fucking KEK

[Anonymous No.16145819]

>>16142101
It has nothing to do with stupidity. It is like the second or third poem in the epic cycle.
Said cycle includes the Odyssey as well as several other poems. Thing is there's only fragments left outside of the Iliad and Odyssey (unless you want Roman fan fiction).
Thus in order to understand what is going on at all, you need to have some knowledge of the myths surrounding it
Things like Paris picking which goddess is hottest, Hercules' conquest of troy, what the deities are responsible for, etc.
That's why Edith Hamilton's mythology is the first book. It's not because it's all that awesome, its because it provides back ground for the Iliad and Odyssey and even the Greek historians too.
You don't have to read Hamilton to get the needed info, you can read bullfinch, or just read a translation of apollodorus library of myths, or you could Wikipedia the epic cycle and read about what happens in the poem before the Iliad (the cypria)
An understanding of who the mycenaeans were wouldn't hurt either.

It's pretty cool starting wwith the Greeks actually because you can see things build. You read the myths, then you read Homer, then Herodotus references the Trojan war, then Thucydides does as well and then picks up where Herodotus left off. It ain't the easiest way to go about reading but it is cool seeing it all come together

[Anonymous No.16145860]

>>16142176
>Modern
>Classic
>in the same sentence

[Anonymous No.16145896]

>>16142284
You need to add early epics to this chart.

[Anonymous No.16145904]

read whatever you want, but if you don't want to read contemporary only you eventually need read the greeks, because almost every author and every poet from 1300 to 1950 references them and it will be irritating to ignore.

[Anonymous No.16145949]

>>16145896
It might be personal bias, but I'd remove the corpus in favor of Homer, and if they're meant to be read in order, place Homer first and shift the rest accordingly.

[Anonymous No.16146011]

>>16142101
don't worry my friend, I would read something else first. although the wording and vocabulary isn't particularly hard in Fagles' Iliad translation, it can be difficult to "correctly" read

[Anonymous No.16146054]

>>16142101
The Iliad is kind of tough to get into without any prior context. I had to read and re-read the first few lines and the first book a couple times to figure out who the Goddess/muse was, who the fuck the Achaeans are, figure out the various epithets used by the Gods, understand the geography of the area, and get used to Greek naming conventions.
Just read with a laptop or phone on hand to constantly google shit and look up definitions until you get into the flow of it.

[Anonymous No.16146059]

>>16144909
kek

[Anonymous No.16146084]

The worst thing you can do is frequent this fucking board. People say start with the Greeks because they are the foundation of modern western thought. Between Greeks and The Bible, almost anything of note worth reading will have some allusion or parallel drawn to one or both.
That being said, read what you want. Starting out, it is perfectly okay to enjoy things on a surface level. Establish a love of reading and from there you can start tackling earlier works that will enrich your reading experience. It's extremely rewarding to go back to a previously loved book and being able to glean a new understanding or experience with it.
Fuck these toxic pseuds. Just read more.

[Anonymous No.16146109]

you should read /lit/ entry level stuff before.
shit like the stranger, notes from the underground, maybe some calvino
Most people these days literally can't read books, they have the reading hability of a downy, you can't jump from that to the iliad, start with some easier stuff, once you reach the human being reading capacity you begin to challenge yourself

[Anonymous No.16146125]

>>16142101

The Iliad was literally a poem for illiterate bronze age plebs.

Off yourself m8

[Anonymous No.16146147]

>>16142101
some people spend their lives trying to understand iliad and learning the greek so dont worry about it being a strange book for you

[Anonymous No.16146167]

>Murican education

Don't you have mandatory reading in schools? What the hell do you learn in school other than how to prep your a hole for the invisible cock of the free market? Assuming you don't get shot in school, of course.

We had The Iliad and Odyssey as mandatory reading in school when i was 15.

[Anonymous No.16146173]

>>16142101
understandable.
translations are supposed to be made for the general, non-classical public, yet the authors seldom consider what will be immediately intelligible, and therefore readable, and what will not.

[Anonymous No.16146183]

>>16146125
the opening line of iliad gives reverence to the muse,it was for the gods and all of the posterity of men

[Anonymous No.16146191]

>>16146167
wow, you're so clever i wish i was you
>Assuming you don't get shot in school, of course.
mate your banter game is fucking atrocious

[Anonymous No.16146237]

>>16142284
Don't "start with the Greeks", moron. That's a meme. That chart is fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.16146299]

>>16142151
"start with greeks" meme isn't completely a meme, but it isn't true either. "starting with greeks" only applies to those who were already interested in reading before and those who have a general knowledge of classical lit/philosophy/history etc. so it's not exactly a starter thing. but of course when you start reading works of greeks and chronologically follow reading well known philosophical works it'd help you to understand modern literature/philosophy more.
if you read the sticky there's a reading chart for beginners.
but i think beginners could read homer with simpler translation. that's my advice, screw the fags, read simpler version of it. you can read the other versions in the future.
also before iliad you may need to read stuff that explains that era and trojan war, their culture and religion. you don't necessarily need to do that, but it would be helpful. my version of iliad had bunch of notes to read before the actual epic+ a list of every character with explanations (blahblahus son of whateverus, leader of blahblahs). and it was really helpful, especially at the ships part and death scenes. you can use wikipedia for this. also you can look up the map of iliad to understand where all these people came from+ you can search pictures of troy.
another advice, imagine all things like a movie and imagine yourself in the battlefield, witnessing it all, fighting together with your brothers, friends. it's really enjoyable when you read it like that. maybe even more enjoyable than odyssey

[Anonymous No.16146321]

>>16146084
basically this

[Anonymous No.16146363]

>>16142202
ships part is great way to understand which kings were more powerful

[Anonymous No.16146396]

>>16143051
why??

[Anonymous No.16146415]

>>16142101
Read Circe by Madeline Miller, then Mythology by Edith Hamilton
Then you can read the OG Greek texts. Or don't read them. You should read what you find interesting.

[Anonymous No.16146480]

>>16142297
I was the same anon! I recall struggling to read it but knowing deep down that cracking it would be something of a rite of passage. Thank you for reminding me of that.

[Anonymous No.16146515]

>>16142101

For complex works like this, I recommend listening to a course or analysis while reading. It's a pseud move but it helped immensely with my comprehension and retention.

This is the one I picked for Iliad. It's not free unfortunately.

https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/iliad-of-homer.html

[Anonymous No.16146624]

>>16142284
>just read all of plato and aristotle and the bible and
as if whoever made this read even half of what's on it