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/lit/ - Literature

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16126684 No.16126684 [Reply] [Original]

>try to start a philosophical conversation with my friends at the pub
>"I try not to think about this stuff, it's irrelevant anyway"
>try to convey the importance of these big questions and the necessity of having meaning and purpose in life
>friends get visibly frustrated and annoyed, one turns away and complains to the person on the other side of him that we've been talking about such an irrelevant topic for so long
>stop talking about it

How do I find people that I can talk to about actual interesting topics? Of my close circle of friends, two are completely money-orientated near-bugmen, one has no goals whatsoever and I can't have a serious conversation with him about anything other than women, and the other is somewhat interested in philosophy but is a crude materialist atheist who doesn't understand that consciousness is not reducible to physical matter. I love them and we have a great time together, but any serious conversation, even about politics, devolves into scatological and sexual jokes within a maximum of 120 seconds. Are there any books that talk about this issue, or explain how I can get my friends to engage in intelligent conversation?

>> No.16126702

Your friends are right

>> No.16126703

>>16126684
/lit/ are your real friends OP
You can have a philosophical conversation with us anytime

>> No.16126711

>>16126684
>a crude materialist atheist who doesn't understand that consciousness is not reducible to physical matter
these people populate philosophy departments by a large margin

>> No.16126727

>>16126684
Your friends obviously already have meaning and purpose in life. What went wrong with you that you need education in it?

>> No.16126728

>>16126684
What a fucking faggot. Anyone that says that thinking about morality etc is irrelevant is a giant faggot who should be put in a labor camp and reeducated.

>> No.16126729

>>16126684
You sound both socially maladjusted and lower class. Philosophy is evidently ill-suited for someone from your milieu and you would be much happier if you made peace with this fact. I can assure you from experience that men of serious standing regularly and readily discuss genuine philosophy in a tactful manner as a matter of course and of good breeding.

>> No.16126747

Just be happy that you live in XXI century and you can connect with the whole world and talk with people sharing your worldview.

>> No.16126754

>>16126684
>the other is somewhat interested in philosophy but is a crude materialist atheist who doesn't understand that consciousness is not reducible to physical matter
OP the reason why noone wants to discuss philosophy with you is that you're either unintelligent, or you're just a pseudo-intellectual faggot who doesn't even care about truth or intellectual honesty. fuck you.

>> No.16126758

>>16126684
dang I know this feeling
Don't worry OP, philosophy is mostly a personal investigation and talking about it with other people is a waste of time generally
if you REALLY need to have a philosophical conversation, do it on /lit/

>> No.16126767

>>16126684
Could you tell me what the last philosophical work you read was?
You’re friends with anti intellectual bugmen who lack inquisitive souls because they’re too addled by the dopamine of modernity to want to think, and too comfortable in their lives to see that things are wrong, I bet that they are essentially ideologically liberal too (ie enlightenment liberalism that dominated modern politics, I don’t mean the shitty mutt definition of liberal). If their lives got harder they’d start to reconsider things, or more so if they were faced with enough things that confronted and precluded their worldviews.
>materialist who doesn't understand that consciousness is not reducible to physical matter
Absolutely based, he’s right by accident because ideas and concepts underly the physical to the point where the idea and the object and continuous with one another.
>atheist
Yeah, you’re right he probably is very cringe and a bugman. Get him to read Plato, Spinoza, and Aristotle so he sees more truthful conceptions if God than someone Semitic desert god.

>> No.16126768

>>16126684
>it's irrelevant anyway
Based.

>> No.16126772

>>16126684
You're a fucking retard for annoying your friend and forcing him to talk about an issue he doesn't want to talk about right now. Should have just left him alone. I remember doing this when I was like 16 and I grew out of it. Focus on other things instead of trying to have deep conversations with people who don't care. You're gonna push friends away and come off as lacking a personality outside of books. You may see this as a sign of the end times that people aren't studying Kant or Hegel but people just have different priorities and you should respect them instead of literally harassing people to have conversations with you about things they don't care about.

Grow up retard, you're not smart or cool.

>> No.16126777

>>16126684
>>try to start a philosophical conversation with my friends at the pub
oh god you insufferable bore

>> No.16126788

your friends dont want to act as some masturbation device for u big /lit/ brain
imagine my shock
friends are friends not little debate opponents

Political and philosophical friends you cant talk about anything but that shit.
Friends r 4 good times anon

>> No.16126803

>>16126772
Why should he have to talk about their stupid shit, but not about his own stupid shit?

>> No.16126809

>>16126703
>>16126758
>>16126747
And I do, but there's a difference between typing stuff online and having a face to face conversation with someone, some itches cannot be fulfilled by the former scenario.
>>16126711
That's depressing. Is this really true? Why would you even go into philosophy if you're a nihilist? Surely you'd just live a life of hedonism and distractions.
>>16126727
>Your friends obviously already have meaning and purpose in life
But they don't, that's the point. They've invented goals like money and careers to pursue to distract themselves from their lack of meaning and purpose.
>>16126767
>Could you tell me what the last philosophical work you read was?
Plato's Parmenides, or the Brothers Karamazov if you count that.
>I bet that they are essentially ideologically liberal too
yep
>Get him to read Plato, Spinoza, and Aristotle so he sees more truthful conceptions if God than someone Semitic desert god.
I told him I was reading the Republic and his response was something along the lines of "Why would you read that whole book, most of it is outdated nonsense anyway". He had studied extracts from it as part of his philosophy A-Level. He thinks Plato is mostly magic bullshit that was refuted by science.
>>16126772
>Should have just left him alone.
And if you read my post you'll see that I did once it was obvious they didn't want to talk about it. But it was worth a try, no?
>you should respect them instead of literally harassing people to have conversations with you about things they don't care about.
I don't know how you got this idea but that wasn't the case at all, I'm not autistic and I can read social cues.

>> No.16126818

>>16126777
oh yeah the horror of bringing up topics outside the norm. honestly, what's the harm?
>>16126788
it's not "debate-opponents." it's trying to understand more about your friends and their points of view.

I can't believe so many people are against OP in this.

>> No.16126823

I can relate OP, most of my friends are unable to talk about anything other than pop culture, they have no interest in developing further than high school level. You have to understand their perspective, they have not been taught to value thinking, and you can't force them to. They are the herd. Best bet is to look up local groups with similar interests.
>>16126702
You would be correct if they were actually living life instead of blind decadence.

>> No.16126828

Try being funnier.

>> No.16126830

>>16126788
>muh debate
Cringe. Debates are the gamefying of philosophy by midwit sophists
OP probably wants someone to have a discussion with and naturally he first went to the people closest to him that he feels he connects with most. Note I say DISCUSSION, because philosophical conversation is far more conducive to the discovery of truth than formal debate where the object is just to win.

>> No.16126844

>>16126818
>I can't believe so many people are against OP in this.
Some of it is just chan culture. Whatever the cocksucking faggot OP says is retarded by default. If OP can withstand the initial blast of shitposting then he's a good OP.

>> No.16126881

>>16126684
You think that they're so ignorant. They don't even stop to ask questions, or think to answer them. They just live their lives without having to do such things. And you hope that one day, they will all pay for it. That one day, it will be over for them, and they will get what they deserve.

But you're wrong. You're just some lonely kid living in a world you've made for yourself, inventing questions and answering them just to make yourself feel better. In reality, you're not even an onlooker - you're just a loser. You're living your life incorrectly, or rather, you're not living at all.

And at some point, you'll stop pursuing answers. You'll be to tired to even ask questions. Things will remain just as vague and ambiguous and unsound as they are now, and there will be no fixing yourself. Because, in actuality, you aren't broken. You're simply inadequate. And while you can fix what's broken, you can't fix the inadequate.

>> No.16126886

>>16126881
shut the fuck up DFW

>> No.16126887

>>16126823
What are you doing instead of blind decadence? Genuinely curious here.

>> No.16126888

>>16126684
I can relate OP, but sometimes I was too “philosophical” and abstract for my friends, I would talk too much about God and morality and all that shit, and they just could not keep up. It is the same though when they talk to me about cars, I don’t know shit about cars and kind of can’t communicate well. Just bond with your friends about stuff you both like, and occasionally show them what you like, but it is a bit selfish to expect them to speak about heavier philosophical topics that you are enthralled in, be careful for your power level and if you want seek other people that fulfill your needs do it don’t expect your friends owe you anything

>> No.16126896
File: 377 KB, 1577x822, lit_pseud.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16126896

>>16126809
>Plato's Parmenides, or the Brothers Karamazov if you count that.
>I told him I was reading the Republic
>He had studied extracts from it as part of his philosophy A-Level. He thinks Plato is mostly magic bullshit that was refuted by science.
LMFAOOO OP is a literal /lit/ pseud caricature. His friends are probably unironically way more intelligent than him and can actually do math and can contemplate philosophical problems way better than OP without needing to cope with /lit/core pretentious bullshit. OP you fucking suck.

>> No.16126898

>>16126809
>Plato's Parmenides, or the Brothers Karamazov if you count that.
Nice, just wanted to check that you read, one can never be sure with /lit/ these days
>>I bet that they are essentially ideologically liberal too
>yep
This was true of me before
a) I went through a long dark night of the soul and ego death after starting to realise my worldview was wrong and I was unhappy with my life (the latter is important for triggering this, often people must be broken down before they can be built back up) and so began questioning most parts of the way I saw the world and how really true consensus was (not very).
b) reading more philosophy, I mentioned Spinoza specifically because he’s often credited as having contributed to enlightenment liberalism with his love of “freedom” but reading ethica one realises that Spinoza’s freedom is the freedom from your own irrationality, not freedom from society’s expectations and getting to do what you like (like in liberalism), therefore I could see that liberalism’s desire for “freedom“ had no good underpinning.
This wouldn’t be easy for you to arrange with them so you might be screwed. At least try pointing out the flaws of liberalism to them, maybe they’ll see but probably not.
>I told him I was reading the Republic and his response was something along the lines of "Why would you read that whole book, most of it is outdated nonsense anyway". He had studied extracts from it as part of his philosophy A-Level. He thinks Plato is mostly magic bullshit that was refuted by science.
Maybe there’s no hope for him, he’s an atheist so he probably likes “debating” theism, try to explain to him the more conceptual ideas of God, God not as moral law giver and father but as the fundamental nature of reality. I wish I could help more with that but it’s a difficult one.
>>Your friends obviously already have meaning and purpose in life
>But they don't, that's the point. They've invented goals like money and careers to pursue to distract themselves from their lack of meaning and purpose.
For many people money and career does facilitate a biological purpose of reproducing successfully and so is not necessarily bad, that is after all a worthwhile purpose for many, if they understand that imperative to have kids then you can probably leave them be, not everyone needs to explore the full depths of meaning and truth.

>> No.16126901

>>16126896
>t. Faggot who never reads and insecurely lambasts those who do

>> No.16126902

>>16126684
>consciousness is not reducible to physical matter
Why not?

>> No.16126907
File: 1.05 MB, 460x336, 1595048570996.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16126907

>>16126809
>Plato's Parmenides, or the Brothers Karamazov if you count that.
>I told him I was reading the Republic
I suspected the OP was bait, but this confirmed it.

>> No.16126908

>>16126684
The problem is that you're a pseud. People can tell.

>> No.16126913

>>16126684
I read philosophy but would never talk about it with anyone. Especially that "what's the meaning of life" type stuff. It's not a social thing for me.

>> No.16126915

>>16126902
self-evident with analysis of the nature of ones own being.

>> No.16126921

>>16126703
Hier bin ich Mensch, hier darf ich's sein.

>> No.16126924

Honestly people need to talk about philosophy with people more then ever. We really all should contemplate various significant questions.

>> No.16126930
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16126930

>>16126902
I'll reduce you into physical matter

>> No.16126932

>>16126924
This "everyone should talk about philosophy" is how you get democracy. Only people who care about this stuff should talk about it.

>> No.16126936

>>16126932
>This "everyone should talk about philosophy" is how you get democracy
But I like democracy. It's only failing because of special interest groups trying to start an NWO, which would be solved if people were more philosophically minded.

>> No.16126937

>>16126684
Honestly this reminds me of some reddit thread I saw years ago where the guy was upset his friends didn't understand reddit references. Get out of your head.

>> No.16126939

Anyone here a part of Mensa? Is it a way to meet intelligent people or is it mostly snobs and aspies?

>> No.16126941

>>16126936
>But I like democracy.
Then follow your own advice and start thinking critically.

>> No.16126944

>>16126915
Huh?

>> No.16126955

>>16126823
>Best bet is to look up local groups with similar interests.
Thanks, I wouldn't really know where to start but I'll look into it. What kind of local groups are you referring to?
>>16126881
>And you hope that one day, they will all pay for it.
lmao
>>16126888
Checked, and this is probably the most reasonable advice so far, thanks.
>>16126898
>At least try pointing out the flaws of liberalism to them, maybe they’ll see but probably not
I appreciate the advice, and your point about Spinoza sounds astute, but they don't even understand the concept of liberalism in the first place. I'll try though, at an appropriate juncture without shoving it down their throats.
>For many people money and career does facilitate a biological purpose of reproducing successfully and so is not necessarily bad, that is after all a worthwhile purpose for many, if they understand that imperative to have kids then you can probably leave them be, not everyone needs to explore the full depths of meaning and truth.
This is true, and I'll keep this in mind. I guess part of me, as their friend, just wants them to understand the importance and the joy of exploring these issues sincerely.
>>16126908
I don't claim to be an intellectual, I just enjoy talking about these things. I am well aware I know very little about these topics, there is a lot I haven't read.

>> No.16126958

>>16126684
do you explain things to birds? do you talk to your dog? you can only communicate insofar as you are understood, only to the point at which you are met in the middle by the other party's interest and capability. if those things don't go far enough, and what you want to say to them lies beyond that point, it is literally impossible to make them understand. the only solution is to find someone with different parameters

>> No.16126966

>>16126684
>try to start philosophical conversation with fellow patron at the bar
>he somehow misinterprets what i've said in the worst possible way that makes absolutely no sense, turning it into some sick and twisted strawman, tries to attack me and i get kicked out of the bar
every time

>> No.16126971

>>16126955
>I don't claim to be an intellectual, I just enjoy talking about these things. I am well aware I know very little about these topics, there is a lot I haven't read.
That's fine, but for those very reasons you can't expect to be a leader and turn your plebby friends into intellectuals. They sense that you're kind of fumbling around. Find some friends that are smarter than you, or accept your conversational destiny with the ones you have.

>> No.16126973
File: 82 KB, 1280x720, 1594375285490.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16126973

Healthy young man goes on /lit/, gets pumped with massive chart of greek philosophy, doesn't feel good and changes - PSEUD. Many such cases!

>> No.16126988

>>16126932
the only people who should talk are those that care about it

>> No.16127020

>>16126711
>consciousness is not reducible to physical matter
And here we have a prime example of word magic

>> No.16127027

>>16126955
>What kind of local groups are you referring to?
Groups dedicated to introspective activities, like book clubs, chess clubs, debate clubs, Toastmasters. You can search for some on Meetup. Or just look up your location+type of group. Good luck

>> No.16127032

>>16126684
>>try to convey the importance of these big questions and the necessity of having meaning and purpose in life
cringe pseud

>> No.16127042

>>16126684
Your friends sound based. If some faggot ever tried to talk to me about free will I'd ask him what difference it would make if one or the other was actually proven beyond the shadow of doubt.

>> No.16127052

>>16126684
OP, you must keep in mind a number of things.
1. The life of the mind is inherently solitary. Even when you find people who are on or above your level, they will only be able to give you hints and tell you to go read this or that. You will have to do all the work by yourself, no one will be on exactly the path that you are, and it will be very, very lonely.
2. You don't have to discuss everything with everyone. Not everyone has to take an interest in everything. It's okay for some people to want nothing more than to go home and watch TV when they're done with work. As long as they don't insist that you do the same as them or harass you for being different, everything is fine. They probably feel the same way you would feel if someone tried to get you into cars. You don't care about cars, and you don't understand why anyone would want to force you to care about them. Let well enough alone.
3. Others in this thread have pointed you towards ways of meeting people with similar interests. Be aware that the people you might meet through such means are generally of a certain class, and that brings with it certain baggage. In all likelihood, they will be either left-liberal or some form of socialist. They will dress like the upper middle class, talk like the upper middle class, act like the upper middle class, and, if you are of the class you seem to be, treat you like the outsider you are until you either become one of them or leave. They will read a limited range of books - do not expect such people to agree to read Carl Schmitt or Alasdair MacIntyre with you. Even if they do agree to read such books, they will uniformly respond negatively and with forms of sophistry such as might shock you. And if you ever dare to say something politically incorrect, you will suffer for it. If you'd like to assimilate to one of those groups, go ahead and join them. But don't expect to retain your individuality in the way that /lit/ allows you to.
4. You must act such as to create the life you envision for yourself. If your ideal self spends time drinking with people like your friends in bars, then you are fine as you are. But if you want something different for yourself, you will have to be prepared to cast out certain parts of your own self and remove certain people from your life. The process may be painful, but if you continue down your present path, you will suffer anyway. Choose wisely.

>> No.16127055
File: 687 KB, 1073x1650, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16127055

>>16127027
There's only one Toastmaster.

>> No.16127084

>>16126921
based faustposter

>> No.16127193

>>16126702
>>16126727
>>16126728
>>16126729
>>16126754
>>16126772
>>16126777
>>16126788
>>16126828
>>16126937
>>16127032
>>16127042
cope, seethe, coom and consoom

>>16126684
A number of others have already stated it, but the chance of your friends suddenly seeing the light and wanting to delve into these discussions is nearly non-existant. Better to find other people who do share the search for truth. I was in the same position as OP two years ago, since then I've found about two people I can discuss these things with. It's better than nothing.

>> No.16127195

I'M HAVING LITERAL DEJA VU RIGHT NOW I SWEAR I'VE BEEN IN THIS THREAD BEFORE !!!

>> No.16127211

>>16126727
Based afffff

>> No.16127265

>>16126684
You prob are dumb. Every person ask the meaning of their lives and likes to talk about that, but only with honest and mature men, unlike you; who sounds more like a pretentious larper pseud.
Literature is no there to be discussed about, but to apply it for your own gain: game theory, sociology, behavioural engineering, propaganda, etc...
If you use literature with the intention of having a debate, and not actually pursuing your will to power then you are just larping and shouldnt be reading at all

>> No.16127266

>>16127195
DEJA VU
I'VE BEEN IN THIS THREAD BEFORE
HIGHER ON THE BOARD, AND I KNOW IT'S MY TIME TO GO
QUOTING (YOU), AND ARCHIVE SEARCH IS A MYSTERY
STANDING ON MY FEET,
IT'S SO HARD WHEN I TRY TO BE (MYSELF),
WHOA

the actual lyrics don't make much sense either

>> No.16127311

>>16127266
Extremely based. Time to listen to this song again.

>> No.16127335

>>16126971
>They sense that you're kind of fumbling around.
Probably true, I'm sometimes not very good at articulating the ideas I have in my head. Is there a way I can remedy this? Practice I guess, but how am I supposed to get practice if I can't talk to people?
>>16127027
Okay, thanks!
>>16127052
First two points are helpful, thanks.
>if you are of the class you seem to be
Believe it or not, I am presumably part of the upper middle class. I live in one of the most affluent parts of England, and most of the people I interact with are considerably wealthy. I don't know if it was always like this, but if it wasn't, I think it's very much a generational thing. The vast majority of zoomers simply don't care about philosophy or politics beyond a very superficial degree, they are far too preoccupied with rampant hedonism and materialism; drugs, money, sex etc. 6ix9ine, (or D-Block Europe who is basically the equivalent for people living where I live) poignantly embodies the values that most zoomers live by, even if they are middle class. It would be easy to relate this to the rise in consumerism, but it's probably a lot more complicated than that. Almost all my classmates at school were atheists, explicitly or implicitly (I was too). The few kids that were religious were viewed as weird and backward.
>And if you ever dare to say something politically incorrect, you will suffer for it. If you'd like to assimilate to one of those groups, go ahead and join them. But don't expect to retain your individuality in the way that /lit/ allows you to
This is something I am very concerned about. Universities especially are full of these types and it worries me.
>But if you want something different for yourself, you will have to be prepared to cast out certain parts of your own self and remove certain people from your life. The process may be painful, but if you continue down your present path, you will suffer anyway.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and this sums it up pretty well. I've realised I'm happiest when I'm by myself, but if I ceased to interact with other people altogether I would probably cease enjoying the time I spend by myself as well. It's difficult.
>>16127193
>since then I've found about two people I can discuss these things with.
How did you find these two friends, if you don't mind me asking?
>>16127265
>Every person ask the meaning of their lives and likes to talk about that
But my friends explicitly stated the opposite.

>> No.16127377

>>16126684
average normal fags
my parents and atheist friends never want to talk about anything difficult
if i do then they always just say it's pointless, or that they have a headache
the npc meme is real

>> No.16127382

>>16126924
No thanks. Sounds insufferable.

>> No.16127415

>>16127335
>Believe it or not, I am presumably part of the upper middle class. I live in one of the most affluent parts of England, and most of the people I interact with are considerably wealthy. I don't know if it was always like this, but if it wasn't, I think it's very much a generational thing. The vast majority of zoomers simply don't care about philosophy or politics beyond a very superficial degree, they are far too preoccupied with rampant hedonism and materialism; drugs, money, sex etc. 6ix9ine, (or D-Block Europe who is basically the equivalent for people living where I live) poignantly embodies the values that most zoomers live by, even if they are middle class. It would be easy to relate this to the rise in consumerism, but it's probably a lot more complicated than that. Almost all my classmates at school were atheists, explicitly or implicitly (I was too). The few kids that were religious were viewed as weird and backward.
I don't know about the UK or about the kind of university you went to. I myself am from the bottom of the heap and am attending a highly-ranked university, so I think I know what you're talking about. Most people here are as you describe, but most of the few who are not are as I described. I've luckily managed to find some cool people to talk to on the regular, but they've already graduated and gone their own way, so I can't see them in person anymore. Either way, it sounds like you went along with that crowd and woke up much later to find yourself surrounded by people you don't actually fit with.
>This is something I am very concerned about. Universities especially are full of these types and it worries me.
If you've already graduated and are in the working world, don't even think about speaking your mind. It's not worth it. I am not white, so I've gotten away with saying the most outrageous stuff in public, but I've paid a price in my own way. Keep quiet and read whatever you want on your own, but make sure you read Gramsci, Foucault, and everyone else the left likes so that you have something to talk about with "intellectuals."
>I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and this sums it up pretty well. I've realised I'm happiest when I'm by myself, but if I ceased to interact with other people altogether I would probably cease enjoying the time I spend by myself as well. It's difficult.
I know that feeling. The only thing that really helped was getting a girlfriend who shares my values. Having a very small circle of people who share your values is the only way out.

>> No.16127437

>>16127335
You write like a 19 year old.

>> No.16127446

>>16127335
>How did you find these two friends, if you don't mind me asking?

Pure luck. One was a friend of a friend, our mutual friend hooked us up because he thought we were both huge nerds. The other was someone I reconnected with after a while and had gone through a similar crisis as I had. Good luck anyway anon.

>> No.16127451

>>16126684
>atheist who doesn't understand that consciousness is not reducible to physical matter
because you are the religious equivalent of the tips fedora, nobody fucking asked you and you are a midwit anyway

>> No.16127454

>>16127437
And an American.

>> No.16127462

>>16126887
I'm doing self-aware decadence.

>> No.16127477

>>16127265
>Every person ask the meaning of their lives and likes to talk about that, but only with honest and mature men
This is a supreme cope and anyone who actually believes this is not living in the real world. They don’t, if they did more of them would see the problems leading to the degradation of our society

>> No.16127506

>>16127415
>Most people here are as you describe, but most of the few who are not are as I described. I've luckily managed to find some cool people to talk to on the regular
I suppose it's like this wherever you go.
>Either way, it sounds like you went along with that crowd and woke up much later to find yourself surrounded by people you don't actually fit with.
Yeah, this is very probably the case, although I didn't realise it.
>If you've already graduated and are in the working world, don't even think about speaking your mind. It's not worth it.
This is so depressing. I'm actually going to university next year, as I took a gap year after 6th form ( >>16127437 lol). I don't want to censor myself but it sounds like I don't have much choice. I do read both left-wing and right-wing political literature so I'll be able to 'assimilate' if necessary.
>The only thing that really helped was getting a girlfriend who shares my values.
I got close. Ironically enough it didn't work out because I wasn't a Christian. Good for you though, I'm jealous.

>> No.16127605

>>16127506
>This is so depressing. I'm actually going to university next year, as I took a gap year after 6th form ( >>16127437 lol). I don't want to censor myself but it sounds like I don't have much choice. I do read both left-wing and right-wing political literature so I'll be able to 'assimilate' if necessary.
You're only just starting university? Good job, man. If you play things right, you will be able to build a decent life for yourself. If you happen to be interested in a much more conservative country, study abroad there and see if you can't meet a nice girl. If not, try talking to international students from such countries. I suggest the former method over the latter, because the really conservative types have absolutely no interest in visiting the West. If you live in a dorm that has the sort of community my first dorm did, you might be able to find some iconoclasts who will be willing to talk to you about the topics you're interested in.
>I got close. Ironically enough it didn't work out because I wasn't a Christian. Good for you though, I'm jealous.
I'm several years older than you and I had to go to another country to meet her, so don't feel bad. Play your cards right, and you'll one day have the same.

>> No.16127695

>>16127605
>If you happen to be interested in a much more conservative country, study abroad there
>I had to go to another country to meet her
Which country was it that you went to, out of interest?

>> No.16127727

>>16127695
One of the industrialized democracies of East Asia. There are only three, so you'll have to guess for yourself which it was. In case you're interested in such places, remember:
1. Anyone who likes you just because you are white is not conservative.
2. Any woman who hangs out in bars is not conservative.
3. If you're interested in the history of these countries, asking people's opinions on historical questions is an easy way to figure out what their general cultural orientation is. It might also backfire if you do it in the wrong way, so be careful.

>> No.16127756

>>16126684
>the other is somewhat interested in philosophy but is a crude materialist atheist who doesn't understand that consciousness is not reducible to physical matter.
OP says he wants "a discussion" but what he really wants is for other people to listen to him talk

>> No.16127769

>>16126803
He doesn't have to listen to anything. Do people on 4channel not know friendship is voluntary? If you don't like what these people do in their free time don't spend your free time with them. This thread is insufferable

>> No.16127781

>>16126809
>I'm not autistic
You're complaining on a hentai message board that everyone you know is dumb because they don't want to listen to your tedious opinions all evening

>> No.16127785

>>16127756
Not everyone is like you, anon. Some people actually want to discuss so they can learn from the other person.

>> No.16127788

>>16126823
>You would be correct if they were actually living life instead of blind decadence.
What is OP doing? He's worse than them if he's hanging out with them without any enjoyment of their time together. Who does things for no reason except to complain about them? A slave, but in OP's case a sloth of a slave

>> No.16127792

>>16127781
And here you are complaining on a hentai message board that OP is complaining on a hentai message board that everyone you know is dumb because they don't want to listen to your tedious opinions all evening.

>> No.16127795

>>16126915
Ok, so what's to talk about? Sounds like OP has nothing to say if the thing he cares about is self-evident

>> No.16127796

>>16127788
>>16126684
>if he's hanging out with them without any enjoyment of their time together
>I love them and we have a great time together
Work on your reading comprehension anon

>> No.16127797
File: 109 KB, 736x641, E193BD4A-BA2E-4B46-8505-6306A28A3813.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16127797

>>16126702
They aren’t. This is the most important topic. They’re cowards, “NPC”, they let an elite class push them into their small insignificant lives, and pretend sports or video games are the important things.

OP, you’ll find a lot of these types here too. They’ll talk about some interesting things from books, but they’ll avoid anything substantive and meaningful.
Bravery in the capitalist world is severely lacking. You all whine about it’s corrosive effects, but shirk any responsibility to rebel

>> No.16127799

>>16126937
This
>>16126939
What do you think, aspie

>> No.16127814

>>16127797
>You all whine about it’s corrosive effects, but shirk any responsibility to rebel
And how should we rebel? By opting out of a consumerist society and adopting minimalist lifestyles? By cultivating self-sufficiency?

>> No.16127816

>>16127792
I'm not denying my autism, OP is. He is in the wrong

>> No.16127824

>>16127814
Organizing.
Me too.

>> No.16127825

>>16127814
>opting out of a consumerist society
Impossible without revolution

>> No.16127832

>>16126809
>educated people who spend their time thinking about these things and actually look into neuroscience and the study of how the brain and consciousness hold beliefs different than mine
>this is depressing
Have you considered that you're wrong, and your friends are nicely trying to keep you from making yourself look like a dumbass?

>> No.16127838

>>16127825
Forest anon would beg to differ

>> No.16127842

>>16127797
Yawn. Like a broken record. Play something else butterfly.

>> No.16127843

>>16126702

>> No.16127851

>>16126684
there's a time and place for everything, anon. your friends gave you a hint by saying they try not to think about that stuff, and you ignored it. look - a vast majority of people aren't interested in the stuff we talk about on /lit/. there's nothing wrong with that. find other friends who are interested and accept your pub-bros for who they are.

>> No.16127863

>>16127462
That’s mildly insulting to your friends, no? What makes you think they’re not self aware?

>> No.16127925

>>16127838
Using the internet is consumerism

>> No.16127992

>>16127797
you don't even care about truth or intellectual honesty, just your teenage tier rebellion.

>> No.16128159

>>16126684
>friends that care about money and women
>friends that care about access to resources and reproduction
What's more to care about anon. You have 100 years, you're not some special soul given a unique purpose to influence the universe in any matter. Philosophy is interesting to understand who we truly are, but you're not assigned some unique mission.

>> No.16128191

>>16126881
Sounds like you speak from experience. Are you lonely anon?

>> No.16128341

>>16126684
Start writing a journal, remember that you have to suffer to have the potential to think philosophically. Some people don't have the potential to think philosophically regardless of what happens to them because they lack individuality. There are two types of people - among many other categories - those who have the potential to become individuals and those who don't, they are part of the masses - they have a sort of mob mentality regardless if they're actually in a group or completely alone. Call them what you want, "NPCs", lemmings, masses, etc. they have been observed throughout history and are a byproduct of civilization.

>> No.16128380

>>16126684
You need to find people who want to be smart but are not and you also need to show them that you're smarter than they are. They most likely not give any good insights but they'll listen and think deeply about what you say

>> No.16128448

>>16126809
>Why would you even go into philosophy if you're a nihilist?
Atheism is not the same as 'nihilism', whatever the fuck you think that eord means.
>Surely you'd just live a life of hedonism and distractions.
Read Epicurus, Russell, and Wittgenstein.

>> No.16128562

Sorry to say OP, but as a recent graduate from a well respected uni, it won't offer a way to escape this. Universities in the UK have become academic assembly lines churning out degrees to sub-par students. Most people I met were completely apathetic and depressed, only studying for a degree because it was expected of them and it allowed them to get a good job, or were complete ideological conformists uninterested in a conversation that could challenge their views. There may be a few people you meet there of a similar disposition to yourself, but most will be like your current friends. There's no escape, you have to learn to live with it.

>> No.16128607

>>16126703
Is this the first step of your "getting nerds to become trannies" flowchart?

>> No.16128609

The search for truth is a solitary sport, OP. We don’t hear about “Socrates and his friends,” we hear about Socrates. Stop trying to involve people in philosophical discussions unless you have a character that people are naturally disposed to listening to and ideas/questions that are actually good.

Remember that every other human is searching for something, just as you are searching for the truth. The only way to involve people on this journey with you is to involve yourself in their journey.

>> No.16128628

>>16128191
s-shut up

>> No.16128632

>>16128609
Huh? We quite literally do hear about Socrates talking to friends or acquaintances constantly in the Dialogues. He talked so much they put him to death, and the times when he is silent he's described as an autist standing by himself while everyone else is having a conversation. Poor example.

>> No.16128634

>>16128609
Socrates entire philosophy was through dialogue, what the fuck do you mean?

>> No.16128713
File: 39 KB, 574x534, images-55.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16128713

>start the discussion of a philosophical topic with friends
>one responds to it with sincerity and simplicity
>one responds sharply and brings up a barely related anecdote from a videogame, Steve Erickson's 'Malazan' or the history of the Soviet Union.
>one responds to it in an elaborated manner, brings up related scientific stuff and related personal anecdotes, hijacking the discussion for at least 20 minutes.
It's not perfect but I can't complain

>> No.16128859

>bring up consumer society and placating the masses
>"thats literally the democrats"
well, i tried.

>> No.16129115

>>16126702
/thread

>> No.16130206

>>16126886
elaborate.

>> No.16130311

>>16128632
>>16128634
> Stop trying to involve people in philosophical discussions unless you have a character that people are naturally disposed to listening to and ideas/questions that are actually good.

Important point

>> No.16130323

>>16126684
I can't speak to the irrelevance of conversations on big questions, but you're at a bar, and your diligence likely makes you a boor.

>> No.16130353
File: 120 KB, 544x768, 1574144499799.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16130353

>>16126684
You just need to accept that maybe 99% of people on the Earth are basically robots. Hence the 'NPC' meme, although I'm not trying to make this political. Most people are only concerned with keeping themselves busy and finding new stupid stuff to waste their money on. It is incredibly difficult to find people who you can talk to in a meaningful fashion.

Also, I'd say that 1 to 1 conversations are more likely to be meaningful than chats in groups. If you want to talk about the big issues, you need to find a single like-minded person and get them alone so there isn't a social pressure to keep the conversation light.

>> No.16130413

>>16130353
nice grapes, anon

>> No.16130547

>>16126881
this oozes the confidence of someone thinking they have wrote something meaningful

>> No.16130604

>>16127797
Why is she(he) so based?

>> No.16130717

Philosophy is a boring waste of time and effort

>> No.16130864

I am a Catholic and I tried to talk to the son of a pastor (Anglican modernist who sings Christian rock in church) who lives in my dorm room about the various arguments concerning the existence of God, an entry level topic for anyone serious about their faith. He responded by saying that he had never put that much thought into it.....

>> No.16130908

Just find new friends man... but don’t think you are superior for being interested in philosophy, it just means you tend to live in your head a bit more than others... also it may be the seriousness that is turning your friends off. people typically just want to play around and shit.

>> No.16130937

Philosophical discussions between laymen ends up with name dropping 99% of the time. You're better of reading and watching lectures.

>> No.16130998

>>16126809
Honestly: You sound young and not too bright (unless you are <15). It's very clear you have little understanding of the world. You should really concentrate on yourself a bit more (I mean YOURSELF).

If you want enlightenment you have to suffer for it. Start deconstructing your beliefs.

>> No.16131769
File: 1.62 MB, 3024x4032, 1597451237487.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16131769

>>16127193
>mass reply everyone that I don't agree with
>no you're the ones that are mad and coping!!!!!
kek
>>16126684
Your friends are right. Philosophy is essentially useless. It is nothing more than a form of pretentious thinking. What is the point of it if you die? You will never think, feel, or see anything ever again. So what is the point of such thoughts?
>inb4 ITS NECESSARY TO UNDERSTAND THE WORLD IM SMART NOW BECAUSE I READ PHILOSOPHY
I can guarantee you that 98% of the world's population doesn't give two shits about philosophy because it's not essential. Even in discussions and arguments, an overwhelming majority of people won't use philosophy because people don't care. They just want to get mad and blame someone. Unless you are a teacher, philosophy is nothing more than a "hobby." And as a person who avidly reads philosophy, that is the biggest burden of reading such a genre. Because most normies just don't care. They live to work and die, so why should they care?

>> No.16131792

>>16131769
>What is the point of it if you die? You will never think, feel, or see anything ever again
You're making an assumption

>> No.16131888 [DELETED] 

>>16131792
>You're making an assumption
Well of course, if I'm going to think two sides of the coin, then it still doesn't matter. If you are religious, you believe you will live again, therefore making philosophy useless because the afterlife is a divine place where such thoughts are obsolete as it is a place of absolute perfection. If you aren't religious then life just ends at death. Making philosophy, once again, useless.

Either way, death makes philosophy useless because you can't carry of what you leaned over into the black void or Heaven. And God isn't going to ask you if you read all of Kierkegaard best sellers.

>> No.16131915

>>16131792
>You're making an assumption
Well of course, if I'm going to think two sides of the coin, then it still doesn't matter. If you are religious, you believe you will live again, therefore making philosophy useless because the afterlife is a divine place where such thoughts are obsolete as it is a place of absolute perfection. If you aren't religious then life just ends at death. Making philosophy, once again, useless.

Either way, death makes philosophy useless because you can't carry anythinv of you learned over into the black void or Heaven. And God isn't going to ask you if you read all of Kierkegaard's New York Times best sellers.

>> No.16131918

friend of mine used to say "if you're not a retard, all or almost all of your best friends will be dead people"

>> No.16131923

>>16126684
cringe. talking to robots turns you into a robot. and thinking you can talk to robots means you already are a robot

>> No.16132118

>>16126684
>>try to convey the importance of these big questions and the necessity of having meaning and purpose in life
yet they have more purpose and meaning in life while being completely apathetic towards it.

the real problem is you tried to have a philosophical debate at a fucking pub.

>> No.16132168
File: 134 KB, 600x601, 1595459440007.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16132168

>>16126896

>> No.16132236

>>16127462
Lol, faggot. I could probably beat your weak ass, maybe you could name the philosophy for that?

>> No.16132249
File: 104 KB, 500x491, gyp-rosetti.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16132249

Augustine refuted false friendships in Confessions. These aren't friends. Never talk to them again and if they try to get back in contact, beat them up.

>> No.16132285

>>16126702
FPBP

>> No.16132297

>>16127797
Wtf I love butterfly now????

>> No.16132357

You remind me of this weird kid in school who used to always come up to me at the most awkward times to discuss extremely dense and serious issues. For instance, in the middle of sports training one day he tried to start talking to me about the history of the Ottoman Empire.... like wtf we are in the middle of doing circuits. Besides, the guy probably watched one amateur Youtube video about the Ottomans and thought he was some expert capable of having serious intellectual discussion on the topic

>> No.16132366

>>16126702
true

>> No.16132372

>>16127842
>The right answer is too boring. Say something wrong for once.


>>16130604
>>16132297
Takk fyrir
(SHE)

>> No.16132512

>>16127727
Korea probably, Taiwan would not be as easy to fit into a dichotomy of conservative/liberal ideology, since the relations with China intersects these political groupings. Christians are rarer in Japan and Taiwan as well.

>> No.16132530

>>16130413
pretty sure those are plums or peaches

>> No.16132545

>>16126684
you sound like a big fag t (to) b (be) h (honest)

>> No.16132695

>>16126684
Fond better friends.

>>16126702
Based vapid retard.

>> No.16132714

>>16132530
Breasts.
Plumbs in her skirt and basket

>> No.16132723

>>16132512
I'm not a Christian, but good guess. By "conservative" I just meant socially conservative, i.e. the kind of woman who just laughs and says "DUH" when you say that there are only two genders and is perfectly content to stay inside and raise children.

>> No.16132808

>>16126684
Culture of ironic

>> No.16133158

>>16128609
Socrates was always walking with friends. The problem is that our modern times have killed people's humanity.

>> No.16133180

>>16126684
>consciousness is not reducible to physical matter
yes it is

>> No.16133659

>>16126684
>at the pub
There’s your problem
Unironically, gather together at someone’s house and do some stimulants like adderall, coke, or meth, and you will have the conversations you seek. For hours and hours

>> No.16133954

>>16126684
>ctrl+F "college" or "PhD" -> no results
>ctrl+F "university" -> all whining and strawmanning about undergrads
If you want to find yourself among kindred spirits, the clearest path is to enter a PhD program in a suitable field at a good school. If you do not yet have a degree, enter an undergraduate program but enroll in graduate courses when possible and get to know professors through office hours. If you follow this protocol you will inevitably find yourself among people who are seeking precisely the same thing: an community engaged in similar interests. Kindred spirits.

Godspeed.

>> No.16133964

>>16126684

Oh good, this thread. OP got too many (You)s but I add one more on principle: the other buddy is correct that consciousness is not somehow outside the material. So again, you're mistaken, OP, as are any anons who would attempt to rebut this.

>> No.16133965

>>16133954
>an community engaged
This is what I get for moving an adjective then not proof-reading afterwards.

>> No.16134118
File: 611 KB, 1316x1508, 1593294352447.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16134118

>>16126711
You fucking retards it is reducible to physicality you do not even grasp what is consciousness and that is not purely a metaphysical thing

What you're talking about with your friend is entry level ethics at most if you were truly dedicated to philosophy you would be in the academics. Talk about your shilling earnings with your friends because it is a life or i would say lie you chose to live..
God your all so fucking dimwitted its atrocious.

>> No.16134125

>>16126901
you got btfod you pretencious fagggetttt go bvack

>> No.16134131

>>16126809
>They've invented goals like money and careers to pursue to distract themselves from their lack of meaning and purpose.
If pursued sincerely, those goals are entirely valid.

If you want to talk with them about philosophy, have a simple discussion about what happiness means to them. If you start with abstracts, nobody is going to give a shit.

>> No.16134133

>>16134118
based retard, he won at life

>> No.16134140

>>16134133
>he won at life
Tell me how do I know youre just as retarded as him. Why you degenerates defending a mid-wit. Go back

>> No.16134152

I had this exact experience except we were on LSD, and I was trying to have some sort of meaningful conversation, but my friends just wanted to talk about bears and sharks and them fighting and shit I was cringing hard and really came to understand just how little I had in common with these people, and frankly how little I actually liked them.

We didn't hang out much after that, and I don't miss them at all.

>> No.16134165

>>16134140
If you enjoy something genuinely, you should enjoy it. He doesn't strive for anything, nobody expects anything from him. That may look like a bleak existence to you, but your judgment is entirely without meaning to his life. Just like my judgment is irrelevant to your life and yours is on mine, since we're interacting without direct immediacy.

The only thing to take away from this is that you cannot apply the same measure to everyone.

>> No.16135401

>>16126896
I'm so frustrated with how closely this meme fits me that I just had to laugh.

>> No.16135442

>>16126896
seething /sci/nigger

>> No.16135770

>>16126684
>Are there any books that talk about this issue
I have no recommendation on that topic, but I'm sure tat any from the Frankfurter school wrote about it at some point.
>or explain how I can get my friends to engage in intelligent conversation?
Neither do I have a recommendation on that topic. In my experience trying to change them is wasted time. rather try to find people that are open for that from the beginning.
Suprisingly I found most of these people who you cannot have any serious topic with (either sexual jokes or pop culture references and no interest in the topic or any action to improve the discussion) in the social science department. Workers, people from the humanities, STEM people were all much better in that hindsight, no I idea why.
I wouldn't ignore the problem, since friendships usually need more than drinking a beer together and having some common memories.
If you don't have common projects you actively do together (such as going to school) or common values (politics, religion, views on society etc.) then there is rather little on keeping the friendship stable. Not that you will stop seeing each other, that would rather happen in case of a fight, someone moving away or a newly founded family being the top priority. But maybe at some point you will think, that spending time with them is wasted or that you would prefer doing other things whilst meeting them (I wish I was on /lit/ kek) and then you tend to see them less and less over time.
When I look at other people it seems to be the typical case, loosing the contact to people that have nothing common with you besides some common experiences years ago. I'm one of the few people who has after 10 years still his high-school clique.
All of that goes for urban people, so when you live in a rural area it might not be a problem.
Have you thought about building a company together?

>> No.16135832

>>16133158
This

>> No.16135852

>>16134152
What specifically did you try to talk about? Personally, when I'm tripping the last thing I wanna talk about is "philosophy."

>> No.16136011

one of my profs when i was in uni explained to me- and this probably is relayed cleaner in german- that the hows of consciousness are in the realm of philosophers and theologians, and the whys of consciousness are in the realm of technicians and engineers; as there is little room for theoretical modeling and experimentation, this ergo leaves little room for true scientists of consciousness.

>> No.16136016

>>16126772
Back to r/mindfulness

>> No.16136068

>>16126684
>consciousness is not reducible to physical matter
yes it is, it's an abstraction layer built upon the laws of physics

>> No.16136089

>>16136011
So you don't consider biomedical engineers or neurologists scientists?

>> No.16136106

>>16126881
I can't even fathom how smart you must've felt despite every trace of reality still lingering in your world telling you otherwise when you pressed "post".

>> No.16136113

>>16126896
kek
>>16135442
bro you're a brainlet, i love you

>> No.16136125

>>16127797
mashallah, so based

>> No.16136163

>>16126684
You sound like an absolute unself-aware halfwit of course your friend doesn't want to hear your nonsense. You are clearly just posturing.

>> No.16136171

>>16126703
He can't though because he has no idea what he's talking about and can only complain about something related to it for example his friend getting annoying

>> No.16136179

>>16136113
bugmen are incapable of love

>> No.16136181

>>16126915
actually for non-retards it's self-evident that it's just an abstraction layer of the laws of physics

>> No.16136186

Why the fuck is this thread still up? Completely off-topic.

>> No.16136191

>>16126955
>I don't claim to be an intellectual
we know... you're a pseud caricature

>> No.16136199

>>16126937
>it's a meme you dip

>> No.16136205

>>16126881
based

>> No.16136224

>>16126711
A fucking men

>> No.16136243

>>16136179
i am smarter than you and barely apply myself, feels good desu, really inflates my ego :^)

>> No.16136250

>>16136243
>:^)
I have never seen a person use this emoticon without being so angry they were literally crying blood.

>> No.16136287

>>16126684
I relate to you OP. Not sure why you're being attacked.

>> No.16136289

>>16136250
if you're not in stem you have no right to an opinion on the matters of intellect :^D

>> No.16136290

>>16130547
>>16136106
t. envious of his IQ

>> No.16136296

>>16128341
>and are a byproduct of civilization

I believe that this is an important point. In a certain way, large numbers of these types of people existing is necessary in order to for a society to be able to exert enough strength. It needs to be possible for crowds to be the kinds of people who, rather than each going off an attaining a unique worldview through deliberation, instead seek to either conform to the values of their peers or be swayed collectivly by strong personalities who are able to convince them to be lead. In this way society can be moved to collective action more easily, making it naturally better at co-ordination in the face of danger. A society of moistly 'free-thinkers' would have considerable difficulty manipulating each other to the same extent.

>> No.16136297

>>16136011
Would you mind giving the german version?

>> No.16136302

>>16126881
Autism and reddit spacing = guaranteed pencil neck

>> No.16136315

>>16136289
Intellect is something only humans possess, and you are clearly not one, though.

>> No.16136332

>>16136315
whatever helps you cope with your shortcomings buddy

>> No.16136334

>>16136296
>he thinks he has attained a unique worldview through deliberation
laughing_horses.jpg

>> No.16136349

>>16127335
>Okay, thanks!
Tourist. Why not post this thread on your home site?

>> No.16136360

>>16127335
Why do you write like a teenager? You seriously have no hope of finding to discuss things with because they will think you're an idiot.

>> No.16136365

>>16126684
I'm in a similar yet different situation, OP.

In my case this friend of mine always brings up philosophers like Scruton, Wittgenstein, Hegel, Kant but when i asked him whether if he actually has read the book he'd answer he doesn't need to and not interested. Dunno if he's being ironic about it or not but he used to be an introverted kind of person who had problems with weeds and alcohols. At some point he "recovered" and turned to (political) conservatism + eastern esoteric stuff (Taoism, Sufism, etc.) but afterwards all discussion will always boil down to subjectivism that's constructed around the constant sense of mystery that he experienced, which is what he could say with absolute certainty as his, and hence no one could ever experience it-- logically it's not false but I could just punch him in the face and say some shit about that being the manifestation of wu-wei.

>> No.16136368

>>16136332
bit ironic to accuse others of coping with you coming here to hate read what humans are talking about

>> No.16136402

>>16136334
Surely you at least acknowledge the existence of the kind of person who reflexively reacts to opinions they don't perceive as conforming to their social circles or being from someone who they admire with disgust and immediate dismissal?

>> No.16136443

>>16127792
You can't be this stupid, anon. Its the same you clearly lack cognitive abilities

>> No.16136455

Sorry, anons. I know it's not exactly about the thread, but could you guys tell me what you consider to be the most well written non-fiction books written in English?

>> No.16136467

>>16134165
>he's happy, so it's cool
>don't judge him
Hedonistic and dumb.

>> No.16136468

>>16136455
Principles of Mathematical Analysis

>> No.16136474

>>16128713
lol sounds like my friend group

>> No.16136500

>>16126896
Mathematics is inherently platonic you moron.
Something like 80% of working mathematicians are platonists.

>> No.16136508

>>16128713
>start the discussion of a philosophical topic with friends
>they bring up books that reflect such ideas
>conversation turns into classic fiction
Can't get more based than that.

>> No.16137047

Haha same, normies can't even comprehend the size of my IQ

>> No.16137113

>>16126711
what is important is that consciousness is not IMMINENT to matter. Consciousness is matter in the sense of Spinoza, being parallel to it.

>> No.16137134

>>16126702

Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.

After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.

>> No.16137142

>>16126809

>They've invented goals

You mean you don't know, Anon? You haven't realized it yet?

>> No.16137212

>>16127925
Wrong

>> No.16137292
File: 34 KB, 490x333, projecting.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16137292

>>16136467
>he's happy
Imagine getting upset over this.

>> No.16137674

>>16126881
/lit/ btfo

>> No.16137849

>>16126684
not every moment with friends should be spent asking questions.

>> No.16137856

>>16127797
Holy based

>> No.16137899

>>16126684
>>16126809
>>16126955
>>16127506
you're actually just an annoying teenage blogposter, mate. read and study the texts on your own and feel free to converse about them in an academic setting or with people you know read the material. your friends don't owe you a conversation on concepts you barely understand yourself.

>> No.16137945

>>16126684
OP, the truth is, most of us have the friends we have out of convenience. We work at the same place, went to the same school, live near to each other, etc. Therefore, most of our friends will be like the average retard, only because MOST people are so. To find really high quality people, you gotta look long and hard, and likely in areas where those kinds of people gather. If you wanna talk about philosophy and morality so badly, check out a university. Ask a prof if you can sit in on a class, and possibly link up with likeminded folk there. Or find a club on the campus or on meetup. Forreal, OP, if your friends fall into your life through no effort of your own and due mostly to sheer convenience, they will NEVER be quality. That's why most friends drift apart over the years.

>> No.16138456

>>16127797
YIKES and Cringe!

>> No.16138467

>>16126881
>Normie singelhandedly solves philisophy in a single swipe

Holy fucking based

>> No.16138483

>>16126684

is it possible that people just don't want to talk about interesting topics with you, or don't want to talk to you at all. No flame but if you go around accosting your friend with "deep conversations" when he just wants to drink alcohol and hit up some girl, then it's not hard to imagine why he would get frustrated.

>> No.16138487

>>16128609
>We don’t hear about “Socrates and his friends

Why does this make me laugh so much lol

>> No.16138549

>>16130353
i to am a fruit enthusiast, where did you go to pick these plums? did you grow them your self?

>> No.16138677

>>16126684
>tfw Plato wrote an entire book of him talking about philosophy with his imaginary friends who, though not agreeing with him, are clearly intellectuals as well

>> No.16138707

>>16126768
>falling for the "ignorance is bliss meme"
How do fugees get on this board? Does plebbit ban book subs now?

>> No.16138730
File: 423 KB, 2304x1728, krempita-de1a2aa96ffb464bb04cadd71ecb4624-1ab952b1e1bc479b900fe62b6fa3fe7f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16138730

>>16130353
BRO DO YOU REMEMBER ME? I WAS THE GUY commenting about my fantasty about being taken in by an Italian woman in the countryside and she'd take care of me and feed me. And we shared a few pics of "peasant life" like your picture. :( I wish I could have her as a wife. I do not want anything else.

>> No.16138792

>>16137113

Not him, but a subtle spelling hint for next time: the word you want is immAnent, not imminent.

Immanant, with respect to "other thing": manifestly a part of, inherent to, implied by. "The theist falsely believes that existence is a property immanent in god. Similarly, the Marxist falsely believes that contradiction is immanent in capitalism. As a third example, the OP falsely believes that a certain immaterialiality is immanent in consciousness."

Imminent: An event that will take place momentarily, about to occur.

The two meanings themselves are closely related, yet distinct, as are the words' spellings. A similar confusion happens between discreet and discrete, which also have very similar but distinct spellings.

>> No.16138829
File: 54 KB, 412x464, bill tired.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16138829

>>16126684
You need to bind your philosophical questions into something practical. Otherwise you are just performing intellectual masturbation in public, you dweeb.

>> No.16138855

>>16126973
D-dare I say, based?!

>> No.16138876

>>16126729
Excellent bait because it's true, although there's also an increasing proportion of men with the capability and desire to think at a higher level whose attention is diverted into deconstructing Rick & Morty episodes.
OP is trying to "talk down" to his buddies and they recognise him as the asshole he is. Pub's open, footie's on, saucy maidens are winking, simple as!

>> No.16138926

>>16126932
This. The idea that everyone is qualified to vote is akin to saying everyone is qualified to deadlift a 500lb boulder. Without initiation, everyone's vote is equally worthless.
>>16126936
>But I like democracy. It's only failing because of special interest groups trying to start an NWO
If you liked democracy you'd at least learn it's definition and, therefore, understand that the post you're replying to is correct. Mob rule is not democracy.

>> No.16139087 [DELETED] 

>>16136508
>have no friends
>start the discussion of a philosophical topic with myself
>myself politely asks to change the topic but i pressure him into continuing the discussion
>myself brings up a lot of well thought out points and i begin feeling insecure at my own inadequacy
>i manage to conjure up a few vapid responses and platitudes and myself immediately deconstructs them
>i get agitated and the friendly discussion turns into a heated argument
>realize i am losing the argument and i am and will always be far less intelligent than myself
>i start slinging ad hominems at myself and ridiculing myself for having no friends
>myself snaps and begins to physically assault me
>i put up a feeble defense against myself but am quickly subdued
>myself begins to apologize and i cheap shot him knocking him unconscious
sasuga

>> No.16139178

>>16136508
>have no friends
>start the discussion of a philosophical topic with myself
>myself politely asks to change the topic but i pressure him into continuing the discussion
>myself brings up a lot of well thought out points and i begin feeling insecure at my own inadequacy
>i manage to conjure up a few vapid responses and platitudes and myself immediately deconstructs them
>i get agitated and the friendly discussion turns into a heated argument
>realize i am losing the argument and i am and will always be far less intelligent than myself
>i start slinging ad hominems at myself and ridiculing myself for having no friends
>myself snaps and begins to physically assault me
>i put up a feeble defense against myself but am quickly subdued
>myself begins to apologize and i cheap shot myself knocking myself unconscious
sasuga

>> No.16139223

>>16126684
Have you tried reddit?

>> No.16140252
File: 1.60 MB, 1490x500, darkseed2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16140252

>>16126684
this looks familiar

>> No.16140267

>>16139178
anon i'm worried about your mental health

>> No.16140277

>>16139178
>myself politely asks to change the topic but i pressure him
>assuming yourself's gender

NOT ok.

>> No.16140441
File: 715 KB, 800x449, nietzsche car.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16140441

>>16126684
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5SwcrVnyLc

>> No.16140464
File: 257 KB, 1138x371, material vs spiritual.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16140464

>>16126896
>has no descriptive critiques of materialism
that reminds me of something

>> No.16140466

>>16126684
go to places where smart peopl would go (ie. university campuses, libraries, cafe-libraries, cultural spaces etc) and be social

>> No.16140786

>>16140252

Giger's 1977 "Homage to Bocklin" (right) immediately pre-dated his 1978 production work on Alien, and was an element of his creativity on the film. The foreboding dead island with its limbs metamorphosed into the horseshoe-shaped Derelict spacecraft, with a womb at its crotch (here, the trees become for Giger a woman's bush, just as the entrance of the spacecraft has an almost-too explicit vaginal opening).

Although it seems unlikely that the three figures on a boat in the original were directly related to Alien's story (Giger aped Bocklin independently of O'Bannon and Shusett writing their story), the comparison is still very interesting. In the film, three figures approach a large, still, and foreboding place of death. Likewise the painting, down to the detail of three figures. One is masculine (Dallas), one seemingly feminine (Lambert), and a coffin is borne (Kane).

Scott retro-actively made the artistic genealogy explicit in the last Alien flick, one of its few redeeming qualities along with the flute scene and maybe the backburster a little bit. At a quiet beat which separates scenes as the group settles into David's hideout, there is a frame which is a brain-dead obvious homage to Bocklin, in itself. I actually gave a start when I saw it in the theater.

Bocklin executed multiple versions of the painting, variations on the theme. More fun, Hitler was fond of Bocklin and this image specifically.

And lest someone complain of a lack of literary significance: Alien's themes, like Apocalypse Now the selfsame year, are bound up in Conrad. A voyage comes to a bad end. Bocklin speaks to this literary theme. It happened that literature and static, plastic art joined to inform films, art informing art.

>> No.16141315
File: 310 KB, 408x600, destroyer of worlds.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
16141315

>>16127797

>> No.16142182

>>16126881
Surface dweller telling others that there's no depth anywhere. K bbcakes u b u.

>> No.16142198

>>16132249
Thread/

>> No.16142219

Consciousness is reducible to physical matter. Do you really believe in dualism?

>> No.16142244

>>16126809
People accept nihilism and still live because the system is to strong, people have been educated to follow rules, to live a 'decent' life and they will try, they are not strong enough to reject everything and fully understand the truth

>> No.16142387

>>16140267
you sound just like myself