Nietzsche and Christianity synthesis?:

[Anonymous No.16107517]

"I believe the Nietszchian and the Christian doctrines are capable of synthesis."

>Our opponents allege that Fascism has no historic background or philosophy, and it is my task this afternoon to suggest that Fascism has roots deep in history and has been sustained by some of the finest flights of the speculative mind. I am, of course, aware that not much philosophy attaches to our activities in the columns of the daily press. However, I trust you will believe that those great mirrors of the public mind do not always give a very accurate reflection, and while you only read of the more stirring moments of our progress, yet there are other moments, which have some depth in thought and constructive conception.

>I believe that Fascist philosophy can be expressed in intelligible terms, and while it makes an entirely novel contribution to the thought of this age, it can yet be shown to derive both its origin and its historic support from the established thought of the past.

>In the first instance, I suggest that most philosophies of action are derived from a synthesis of cultural conflicts in a previous period. Where, in an age of culture, of thought, of abstract speculation, you find two great cultures in sharp antithesis, you usually find, in the following age of action, some synthesis in practice between those two sharp antitheses which leads to a practical creed of action.

>I would suggest to you that in the last century, the major intellectual struggle arose from the tremendous impact of Nietszchian thought on the Christian civilisation of two thousand years. That impact was only very slowly realised. Its full implications are only today working themselves out. But turn where you will in modern thought, you find the results of that struggle for mastery of the mind and the spirit of man. I am not myself stating the case against Christianity, because I am going to show you how I believe the Nietszchian and the Christian doctrines are capable of synthesis.

[Anonymous No.16107520]

>>16107517
>On the one hand you find in Fascism, taken from Christianity, taken directly from the Christian conception, the immense vision of service, of self-abnegation, of self-sacrifice in the cause of others, in the cause of the world, in the cause of your country; not the elimination of the individual, so much as the fusion of the individual in something far greater than himself; and you have that basic doctrine of Fascism, service, self-surrender to what the Fascist must conceive to be the greatest cause and the greatest impulse in the world. On the other hand you find taken from Nietszchian thought the virility, the challenge to all existing things which impede the march of mankind, the absolute abnegation of the doctrine of surrender; the firm ability to grapple with and to overcome all obstructions. You have, in fact, the creation of a doctrine of men of vigour and of self-help which is the other outstanding characteristic of Fascism.

>At the moment of a great world crisis, a crisis which in the end will inevitably deepen, a movement emerges from a historic background which makes its emergence inevitable, carrying certain traditional attributes derived from a very glorious past, but facing the facts of today, armed with the instruments which only this age has ever conferred upon mankind. By this new and wonderful coincidence of instrument and of event the problems of the age can be overcome, and the future can be assured in a progressive stability. Possibly this is the last great wave of the immortal, the eternally recurring Caesarian movement; but with the aid of science, and with the inspiration of the modern mind, this wave shall carry humanity to the further shore.

Oswald Mosley

[Anonymous No.16107554]

Source: https://www.oswaldmosley.com/christ-nietzsche-and-caesar/

[Anonymous No.16107635]

>>16107517
>this is the worst thing ever
>I think we can work with this
The only thing worse than a fascist is an Anglo fascist.

[Anonymous No.16107671]

Fascinating, I always wondered this myself as a fascist since I notice a lot of other fascists are "high Nietzscheans" who really emphasize the power angle. But for me the service and love angles are primary, and the power is more about righteously defending oneself against threats and moral evils.

I respect the neo-pagan people in their convictions but I think there is a lot of value in Christianity.

[Anonymous No.16107699]

>>16107517
huh,
tbf a lot of neitzches earliest fans and admirers where rather christian wealthier Americans who had a bit if a conversation back and forth with him through letters. this was before he had much popularity on continent. funnily enough, they encorporated some of his ideas into their religiosity. it’s actually writen abo it a bit in American Neitzche.

[Anonymous No.16107723]

>>16107671
Christianity is rather, an "active Buddhism" to put it crudely, or as Mosley says "not elimination of the individual, but, so much as the fusion of the individual in something far greater than himself". "Fascist" Nietzscheans like Bowden seem to have been calcified in the new world, post-war liberalism, in a doggish reaction to it, of course life and limb I can't entirely blame them except it being untrue, that they are a dog and that is the full human lot in life to act as that wish. A very sensual mind but not in an un-intellectual way. But they seem to think, in this individualised state that they are in "riding the tiger", that the nation is nothing but a mechanical organ for the elite compromising it to function. The machine is soulles, and they are the machine; where we see today there is no ghost in the machine but the man himself, that if it were not within the peoples power to become great of that nation, then it would never be made great by elites alone. But then, that is Bowden's individualist English character come out in a brutal anti-humanist reactionary manor.

[Anonymous No.16107732]

>>16107671
my personal problem with neo paganism is that it’s almost always adopted as an identitarian or reactionary move on either side of the political/cultural spectrum. there is little actual genuine religiousity, which is kind of understandable given that particular cultural gods are kinda hard to internalize once a universalizing one like the abrahamic or Platonic/pantheistic god comes into vogue.

[Anonymous No.16107746]

>>16107699
Just looked at an interview by its writer: https://www.c-span.org/video/?400024-4/american-nietzsche

She says Nietzsche's focus on "universal truth" can be found in every one of his works, and he took it as his mission to fight "universal truth", to tear it down and such. Yet she seems to forget the best possible introduction and explanation of Nietzsche, being that the fight against nihilism was his mission, and he effectually found himself fighting against universal truth as a result of those conclusions following from the fight against nihilism "in the now" for him.

[Anonymous No.16107782]

>>16107746
ok, i will, than you.

its still an interesting oddity that he found some on his initial success in that domain of people.

[Anonymous No.16107807]

>>16107782
>ok, i will, than you.
Do what exactly?

>its still an interesting oddity that he found some on his initial success in that domain of people.
Agreed.

[Anonymous No.16107991]

boomp.

[Anonymous No.16108004]

>>16107807
meant to say
>ok, i will, thank you.
but mistyped.

[Anonymous No.16108014]

>>16108004
But you will what anon? I don't understand what you will do.

[Anonymous No.16108031]

>Osho,
>Is God really dead, as Friedrich Nietzsche says?

Friedrich Nietzsche is one of the most important beings in the whole history of man, of the same caliber as Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, Mahavira, Buddha, Zarathustra. He would have become an enlightened being, but something went wrong. Instead of going through a breakthrough. he went through a breakdown.

What really went wrong was the Western atmosphere, the whole Western intellectual climate. The responsibility is that of the Christian Church. The Christian Church is the culprit. It has destroyed the possibility of many, many people like Friedrich Nietzsche becoming enlightened.

The Christian Church has destroyed all intellectual freedom in the West. The people who showed any sign of rebellion were burned alive; their books were burned, prohibited. The Christian Church has been one of the most fascist organizations in the history of man. It is not an accident that fascism, Nazism, communism, all the three dangerous dictatorial trends of this century, are outcomes of Christianity.

The East cannot be held responsible because in the East intellectual freedom has always existed, has always been respected. No intellectual in the East has been crucified like Jesus; no philosopher has been poisoned like Socrates; no mystic has been murdered like al-Hillaj Mansoor. The East has known more people like Socrates than the West, and the East has produced more people like Jesus than the West. The East is studded with mystics like al-Hillaj Mansoor. But never, not even for a single instant, have we destroyed anybody’s freedom. We have respected freedom as the ultimate value. Hence, when a man becomes enlightened and attains the ultimate truth we say he has attained moksha. The word moksha means absolute freedom, unconditional freedom, a freedom from which no fall is possible.

But Christianity has been very dictatorial. The ultimate consequence was that only the mediocre people remained in the Church and the intelligent people left the Church, or even if they remained in the Church they remained only formally; their hearts were not with the Church.

[Anonymous No.16108230]

>>16108031
Osho has midwit takes.

[Anonymous No.16108241]

>>16108230
t. christcuck as known as a jew

[Anonymous No.16108333]

>>16108031
And that's a good thing

[Anonymous No.16108402]

>>16107517
>>16107699
>acknowledged Jesus as a superhuman figure, if off the mark somewhat
Rehellenizing a muscular Christianity is certainly possible. He mentions America once in BGE -- after a fashion, Jefferson once said, "We will have Europe's problems once we are stacked one upon the other as in her great cities." After most of a century of stagnation since reaching the moon, we are past due for a new exodus of the free spirited into the stars; even in frontier country, the wilderness is being enclosed

[Anonymous No.16108420]

>read philosopher
>find out that philosopher's writings are in conflict with the teachings of the catholic church
>stop reading philosopher
Simple as

[Anonymous No.16108436]

>>16107517
>Where, in an age of culture, of thought, of abstract speculation, you find two great cultures in sharp antithesis, you usually find, in the following age of action, some synthesis in practice between those two sharp antitheses which leads to a practical creed of action.
And we got neoliberalism instead of fascism. Fantastic

[Anonymous No.16108481]

>>16108014
i will look at the interveiw you linked.

[Anonymous No.16108484]

>>16108402
Well, neitzche was a big fan of Ralph Waldo Emerson, so his view of the country probably was somewhat rose tinted.

[Anonymous No.16108491]

>>16108241
Okay.

[Anonymous No.16108498]

>>16108436
He said age of action, the "men of action", the real active and great men of history.

>>16108481
Oh I see, well no problem for posting it and thanks for the original book.

[Anonymous No.16108505]

>>16108484
Everyone loved America during the 19th century except for perhaps towards the end. They were the golden child of the world. Many famous philosophers admired it during their visits.

[Anonymous No.16108510]

>>16108498
Sure thing! it was a pretty interesting lense, even though i wouldn't recommend it being the only one you should read neitzche through. i especially appreciated how much Ralph Waldo Emerson effected him, not just how he affected some protestant movements in America.

[Anonymous No.16108549]

>>16108510
Yeah I've heard Nietzsche liked Emerson a lot but no one has ever explicitly explained how, so this will be helpful.

Thanks again anon.

[Anonymous No.16108587]

>>16108505
lol imagine believing this.

[Anonymous No.16109024]

Here's what you do. Add Thus Spake Zarathustra as a canon book to the bible. God is dead now, so now Jesus sits on the throne in heaven. Because of God's death, all of his covenants with man (including Islam) are null and void. Now all you really need is the teachings of Jesus in the NT.

[Anonymous No.16109040]

>>16107517
Yes but did you read Kant yet?

[Anonymous No.16109210]

>>16109024
But I mean is Thus Spoke really good enough to become a member of the New Testament? And what of its teachings, does not the teachings of the earth contradictu with the book? Or do we cut it down to a more rceptible proportion?

[Anonymous No.16109420]

bump.

[I No.16110198]

>>16107517
whatever. teaching of christ is not doctrine. it is science.

[Anonymous No.16110206]

>>16110198
>science doesn't have specific intelligible contents

[I No.16110221]

>>16110206
speak human

[Anonymous No.16110233]

>>16110221
Humans dont speak retard.

[Anonymous No.16110262]

>>16110221
>because it's a whole there's no such thing as speaking of intelligible characteristics of Christianity
This is what you said, and it's retarded.

[I No.16110291]

>>16110262
christianity is not teaching of christ, faggot, it is opposite. teaching is teaching, based on laws of human psyche. yoga is science.

[SAGE No.16110313]

>>16110291
yoga is not teaching of christ, human psyche, it is teaching. teaching is opposite,based on laws of faggot. Christianity is science.

[I No.16110320]

>>16110313
my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

[Anonymous No.16110325]

>>16110291
What are you saying man?

[I No.16110345]

>>16110325
I say that jesus knew a huge deal about human biorobot, and vatican turned it into larping and degeneracy, making a clown out of man of knowledge, jesus.

[SAGE No.16110348]

>>16110320
that may be so, but my powers of observation are maximal.

[Anonymous No.16110452]

>>16110345
>it's a "Christ was right, Christianity bad" autist

[I No.16110921]

>>16110348
? you describe yourself to us? take meds.

[I No.16110930]

>>16110452
science is science, there's nothing "right". laws exist without us. serious man would know, but not degenerate autist like you.

[Anonymous No.16111327]

>>16107517
We had a perfect system of governance which advanced civilisation in its genuine, authentic directions, subsumed those negative characteristics of human nature which are better used as tools of action, and allowed for the movement of true, earthly freedom.

And we threw it away for a fucking war.

I will never not seethe about this.

[Anonymous No.16111844]

>>16110930
So you don't believe in morality is what you believe? Yes what a small mind. No revelation like Beethoven, is an a-moral revelation. It is a to put simply large moral force, which is shut off from you because you simply "do not belieeeve in morality", what a fool.

[Anonymous No.16111902]

>>16110930
>thing exist whiteout us
that is a bold statement, completely unscientific

[I No.16112084]

>>16111844
believe? I don't know what it is. it is just a sound, parasite word intended to force larping. I fuck believers in ass.

[I No.16112092]

>>16111902
clown, say hello to your mommy which approved your any foolish behavior with food, forged your larping models.

[Anonymous No.16112098]

>>16111327
what system are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.16112355]

Mosley's brand of Fascism was extremely based, it really just needs some rebranding to fit in today. Call it Democratic Corporatism and get rid of the overt complaints about Jewish people, and you could pitch most of his writings to people today with no change to his actual policies.

[Anonymous No.16112496]

But we already have this. God and market are already the ruling twin system of the western world, and the rational self interest that Nietzsche stood for is enshrined as an almost holy duty for anyone who wants to make money.

[Anonymous No.16112739]

>>16112098
Soviet communism