/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16096098]

Why are most people who are into "literature" leftists and Marxists? You would think those who are well read would be very aware of the inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man, no?

[Anonymous No.16096119]

huh?

[Anonymous No.16096146]

No great work of literature or history has been written by a marxist, however reading is a form of entertainment very rarely will it have much effect on your philosophy

[Anonymous No.16096162]

>>16096098
>people read
>necessity for reading is to be a sheltered man, living life on easy mode, ie being a woman

>therefore weak men who lead the life of a woman should know how life is brutal

wow

[Anonymous No.16096166]

>>16096119
What affects and individual's philosophy?

[Anonymous No.16096168]

>'A cumulation of scientific evidence shows that their societies were not characterized by competition, inequality and oppression. These things are, rather, the product of history, and of rather recent history. The evidence comes from archaeological findings about patterns of human behaviour worldwide until only about five millennia ago, and from anthropological studies of societies in different parts of the world which remained organized along similar lines until the 19th and earlier part of the 20th century. […] Lee echoes the phrase used by Friedrich Engels in the 1880s to describe this state of affairs, ‘primitive communism’. The point is of enormous importance. Our species (modern humans, or Homo sapiens sapiens) is over one hundred millennia old. For 95% of this time it has not been characterized at all by many of the forms of behaviour ascribed to ‘human nature’ today. We have nothing built into our biology that makes present‐day societies the way that they are and our predicament as we face a new millennium cannot be blamed on it.’

[Anonymous No.16096179]

>>16096098
Alot of leftist types are pseudo-intellectuals who couldn't into math or science , but still need to believe they're smart so they cope by reading obscure french and german philosophy and literature and delude themselves into thinking it actually makes them understand the world better.

[Anonymous No.16096183]

>>16096179
Read Cockshott

[Anonymous No.16096186]

>>16096168
>A cumulation of scientific evidence shows
dude, just trust me

[Anonymous No.16096195]

>>16096168
Wrong.

[Anonymous No.16096204]

>>16096162

[Anonymous No.16096207]

>>16096186
>>16096195
Read A People's History of the World by Chris Harman, that's were that quote comes from. Learn about primitive communism.

[Anonymous No.16096212]

>>16096179
Total bullshit. The opposite is true.

[Anonymous No.16096216]

>>16096168
Who the fuck wrote this? How can someone be so retarded? Competition, inequality, and oppression not being a part of nature? These things are some of the most easily observed aspects of ALL nature, let alone human nature.

[Anonymous No.16096230]

>>16096207
>Dude read this book about how THINGS AREN'T REALLY AS THEY SEEM AND EVERYTHING IS A LIE WOAHHHHHHH

[Anonymous No.16096239]

>>16096098
>inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man

>inherent
kekw

[Anonymous No.16096249]

>>16096239
Yes? Do you find all facts this amusing?

[Anonymous No.16096262]

>>16096207
> A People's History of ____
dropped. not even anti socialist or anything, but every book that has this title has a holier than thou attitude that has the audacity to say that it speaks fir the “people”

[Anonymous No.16096279]

>>16096212
Total bullshit. The opposite of the opposite is true.

[Anonymous No.16096285]

>>16096249
You are a retard who naturalizes human behavior as if always it would had been the same.

On top of that you talk with no knowledge of the diverse classless societies that have existed in history before arriving to the existence of the State as a class and family as the institution we know nowadays.

tl;dr: you are talking about things you know nothing about with an audacious ignorance

[Anonymous No.16096288]

>>16096285
as a class institution/mechanism*

[Anonymous No.16096290]

>>16096207
>learn about primitive communism
It is baffling to me how people fall for this bullshit.

[Anonymous No.16096301]

>>16096285
You're a retard who projects his fantasies onto every human interaction you see.

>Diverse classless societies
Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.16096309]

>>16096285
>he doesnt think its a synthesis of nature and nurture and blames it all on one.

[Anonymous No.16096326]

>>16096301
>Jesus Christ.
it's an anthropological fact. Facts don't care about your feelings

It's ok, I get it.

Your only way to justify the current state of things is to affirm that there has always been - and will be - exploiters and exploited.

There's no point in debating with someone who imposes his feelings and subjective thoughts over documented historical facts.

[Anonymous No.16096333]

>>16096326
name some of these societies homo

[Anonymous No.16096341]

>>16096098
I wonder if they understand how much of a bitch move it is to passive-aggressively imply that the only possible reason for you not coming to the same conclusions as them is that you're a brainlet philistine who hasn't read a book since the end of his compulsory education.

It's quite amazing how most people are turned off marxism not because they necessarily disagree with it on an ideological level but because the entire movement (that is to say, its constituents) is surrounded by this aura of slime and bourgeois wankery.

[Anonymous No.16096347]

>>16096326
it's an anthropological fact. Facts don't care about your feelings
It's ok, I get it.
Your only way to justify your rage against the current state of things to affirm that there hasnt always been - and might not be - exploiters and exploited.
There's no point in debating with someone who imposes his feelings and subjective thoughts over documented historical facts.

[Anonymous No.16096354]

>>16096333
Narnia

[Anonymous No.16096391]

>>16096326
>anthropological fact
First of all, anthropology is not science and no, there has never been diverse classless societies in human history, this is fact.

Your retarded minority view and easily debunked version of history is not worth a read let alone a single glance, and your appeal to non-authority is hilarious. You are an intellectual morman.

>exploiters and exploited
The only people who view society through this lens are Marxists, and they are wrong and have been thoroughly debunked.

>There's no point in debating with someone who imposes his feelings and subjective thoughts over documented historical facts.
Ironic.

[Anonymous No.16096392]

>>16096333

>A bioarchaeological study primarily sponsored by Ohio University at the Çatalhöyük archaeological site, in the Anatolia region (center of present-day Turkey), reveals the existence of communal social relations, without evidence of social stratification or tribal social relationship, in an urban settlement that came to concentrate up to 8,000 inhabitants in a space of three hectares. The study data provide very interesting information about the social organization in the human settlement, since it was observed that the dwellings tended to be occupied by unrelated members, without evidence stratification or differences in diet between men and women living in the dwellings.

>Sources: "Bioarchaeology of Neolithic Çatalhöyük reveals fundamental
transitions in health, mobility, and lifestyle in early farmers ", in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America https: //www.pnas.org/content/116/26/12615

[Anonymous No.16096401]

>>16096098
Because they're cynical cowards and hate the self and the logic and reason of "mind" yet they ultimately wish they could be liberated from self-hatred. They read endlessly about the kinds of people they despise because on some level they admire traits within these others that they themselves lack; however, the only time such a person could ever admit things of this nature are during peak emotional experiences or expansion of awareness. Often, the two become intertwined in drug- and sex-fuelled binges, benders intended to satiate the need for development, while never satisfying due to the transient nature of the experiences.

>All that they claim hateful, is that they hate; all that they cannot tolerate, is in themselves

The saddest part is when they're racist or sexist, yet claim they're "helping" minorities like women & blacks. Last I checked, women are ~49-51% of the species, and there are >10x more darker-skinned than lighter-skinned people. Those aren't minorities and they never were. However, those on the left cannot come to terms with difference or conflict. They run amok, terrorising in groups with "If you're not with us, you're against humanity!" types of ultimatums. They revert to screeching animals when challenged with logic and reason, precisely because they've not developed that part of their mind. Precisely because they hold fee-fees and "enlightenment" over the development of one's self.

More funny though, is seeing their actions not line up with their ideals. What happens when one of these kinds of people ascends to individual popularity, status, or riches? They don't tax themselves, giving away 90% of their multimillionaire earnings, as they claimed in lofty ideals. They selectively fund political agendas. And then they go broke, or eke out a meagre existence between pseudo-fame and B-list celebrity, doing rounds on talk shows when their latest work is championed for some cause.

Just thinking of all those hours, days, and decades of effort gone into a reputation; instead of a set of permanent skills. It is harrowing.

>t. grew up lefty, self-hating jew
>realised there's more to the world
>saw origins for what they were, a sham and an excuse

And now I am BANKER, she who destroys Communist snowflake dreams

[Anonymous No.16096403]

>hurr durr im Karl Marx
That's literally him

[Anonymous No.16096418]

>>16096401
Do jews see goyim mingling with their women as an abomination like most whites innately feel disgusted by miscegenation?

[Anonymous No.16096419]

>>16096392
absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, you massive retard.

[Anonymous No.16096422]

it's inherent of capitalism not man

[Anonymous No.16096430]

>>16096162
You could just have written
>if just you knew how bad things really are.

[Anonymous No.16096452]

>>16096212
>Doesn’t provide examples.

Bases leftard

[Anonymous No.16096463]

>>16096285
>diverse society
>classless society
You can only choose one.

[Anonymous No.16096485]

>>16096418
Can't speak for the ultra-orthodox too well, because their definition of goy isn't the same as layman's understanding.

Goy in their sense refers to people who undergo severe "transformations" to hold up the masses. CEO's, "entrepreneurs," politicians, etc. The masses aren't considered human, goy are human but scum, and jews are the ones who'll inherit the Earth when the goy break.

How my kinda jew sees goys: the people who choose ignorance, beligerance, etc. A lot of 4chan, plebbit, social media are goys caught up in feel-goods and petty vengeances.

In that sense, depends on the goy. Some of them grow into rather interesting people. Usually there's some inner-family, hushed racism or frowns, but for the most part it's about conduct and potential.

Bloodline only makes a difference if the jew matriarchs in the family did extensive work to heal essentially the family karma. With that done, every generation after are free to be whoever & however they choose, so long as their conduct is fitting the family status (or better). Mating with goys is almost like experimenting with genetic potential for some matriarchs, so bringing in a goy is a rational decision to offset genetic stagnation or defects.

There's a stereotype of certain kinds of jews being frail or allergic to everything. Their family's likely been "keeping it kosher" for too long.

>not that you can trust anons

[Anonymous No.16096546]

>>16096485
>There's a stereotype of certain kinds of jews being frail or allergic to everything. Their family's likely been "keeping it kosher" for too long.

How will you become the overlords of the world if you're already falling apart at the seams on a genetic level from all the hereditary diseases you carry? Does that mean that you'll be forced to mix with pakis, arabs, and niggers after whites go extinct? Do you think the ultra orthodox types would rather degenerate through the thickening of their blood with hereditary diseases, or would they be willing to put themselves through what accounts to borderline bestiality in their view by mating with a goy?

> jew matriarchs

I did hear from another jewish anon that jews are quite matriarchal. Do the elder women have about as much say in family matters as the heads of the house, or are they the de facto rulers of a jewish family?

[Anonymous No.16096559]

>>16096207
>Primitive communism
Le noble savage

[Anonymous No.16096570]

>>16096230
this is like anthropology 101

[Anonymous No.16096584]

>>16096570
>this is like anthropology 101

[Anonymous No.16096591]

>>16096570
Primitive communism is Anthropology 101? The absolute state of academia.

[Anonymous No.16096600]

>>16096098
It's feminized idealism and presupposes a lot of things that we typically don't take as a given; especially coming from a masculine mindset.
This is due to the "intellectual" realm that people like Plato refereed to and enlightenment philosophers like Kant attempted to presuppose through ideals.

Hence Marx coming through his german idealism through Hegel; transfering the noumenalogical to the phenomenological; but it such a sloppy way that it went full materialist dialectic and left no room for the human condition.
This lead to the embracing of "communism ideals" as they sought to reshape the human condition to whatever feminized shape they sought fit; in our reality that mean the perfect economic unit (to use the utilitarian mindset).

Overall, they ended up with a false model of man and the world; hence all the suffering and friction they generated.
though I'm sure someone like Nietzsche would be proud of such applied suffering as a social means to generate an ubermench (a material God as systemic antithesis) though

[Anonymous No.16096607]

Have any of these retards extolling primitive communism ever thought that maybe it was because they lived in primitive, hardly organized and non-technologically advanced societies that they had no formal hierarchy or state? Unless these Marxoids are arguing for anarcho-primitivism, show us one technologically advanced society that isn’t stratified and has no concept of property. No one cares about niggers living in the bushes in squalor and “perfect equality”

[Anonymous No.16096629]

>>16096607
Communism in this frame of mind is hardly any better than the "RETURN TO TRADITION" evolaspam - it's literally the same return to a past that in all likelihood never was.

[Anonymous No.16096633]

>>16096607
Bro have you realized that there is still room for you to be competitive and selfish under socialism and communism?
This whole argument about 'muh human nature' is retarded, next thing we will be defending rape and pedophilia because muh male human nature. Stfu you retards.

[Anonymous No.16096640]

>>16096546
That's part of the jewry game where I am. If your family falls apart, you lost the game. If you didn't clean the family tree, the genetics, your lineage is worth less.

Jews can be any skin color, any nationality. The difference is in conduct and potential, and a little bit bloodline.

As far as I've seen, over time the ultra-orthodox will allow a group of women to be jew-in-name. After 2-5 generations of active jewry, a blind eye tends to be turned to that family, since the children were "raised" from lesser heritage to jew. That family is looked down on until the community forgets their origins, but it could be 2 generations, could be 20. That depends on who's keeping records.

>elder women
Where I am, one matriarch can extend her reach through several families. Sometimes a son or a daughter is willing to face shunning from the rest of the family or community because sticking with a matriarch can fuck up the lineage/karma more than separating. One poison apple can kill a whole tree, even if it's gold-plated and revered as deific in ways.

>Then again, I could have grown up in a backwards community of outcast, lefty, self-hating jews
>Could be talking out my ass when it comes to other communities, and other kinds of jewry

[Anonymous No.16096654]

>>16096633
>This whole argument about 'muh human nature' is retarded
Imagine thinking this was what I was talking about, it seems that you /leftypol/ retards can’t think outside your pre-programmed responses. Complex societies above a certain level of development require organization, laws, discipline and more formal hierarchies. I will say though that Marxists hate the human nature argument because it is true though.

[Anonymous No.16096658]

>>16096098
Because they are oversocialized elitists who live in a bubble

[Anonymous No.16096668]

>>16096207
>>>/his/9229480
I asked /his/ about your book, they said it was bad so I'm not going to read it.

[Anonymous No.16096695]

>>16096654
>there is no organization in socialist and communist economies
really? This is so weak and false. There still are hierarchies in those economies, but they're a whole lot more democratic.

[Anonymous No.16096699]

>>16096640
My brother is a jew, and I haven't gotten to spend a lot time with his side of the family but when I do they seem like chill people. I wonder if it's like this behind the scenes.

[Anonymous No.16096701]

>>16096668
So close to quads, I almost believed it
>since there's supporting evidence, I'm going to steer clear and holler "but muh interpreTATION"

[Anonymous No.16096712]

>>16096168
Wasnt Engels also the nigga who wrote that people on Papua New Guinea had smaller brains due to meat free diet?

[Anonymous No.16096717]

>>16096701
I don't think you understand how evidence works.

[Anonymous No.16096719]

>pre-christian stateless communities will never wor-

[Anonymous No.16096746]

>>16096719
>pre-christian
>will

[Anonymous No.16096768]

>>16096746
One day people won't even remember those desert spooks. I look forward to the day we will never hear the word God again

[Anonymous No.16096772]

>>16096717
I hope you're also being sarcastic and it went over my head

[Anonymous No.16096791]

Dun dun dun!!! The gay green giant appears, you niggas dun goofed

Roll >3 for non-linertarian saves
Roll 3 for green gay rape
Roll <3 for a pleasant conversation over an afternoon lunch, on the giant's tab

[Anonymous No.16096797]

>>16096098
most of them are liberals, not marxists

[Anonymous No.16096824]

>>16096179
While the people you are referring to certainly exist, I would say it is a poor characterization of the left in general. Most scientists are socialists. Einstein wrote books advocating socialism.

Try again.

[Anonymous No.16096829]

>>16096797
Even worse.

[Anonymous No.16096841]

>>16096559
Read some Bookchin. He talks a lot about lack of hierarchies in preliterate communities while also shitting on new-age environmentalism and romanticized notions of the "noble savage"

[Anonymous No.16096851]

>>16096098
How many relevant authors, philosophers, etc. are ACTUAL Marxists and not just vaguely leftist? Universities are filled with a sort of leftist scholasticism, but few of these people are really creating anything.

[Anonymous No.16096854]

>>16096841
No.

[Anonymous No.16096860]

>>16096168
They call right-wingers reactionaries, while leftists want to undo the Neolithic Revolution so we can all be equal again.

[Anonymous No.16096863]

>>16096829
well here you go

[Anonymous No.16096879]

>>16096854
>wahhh all left bad ur all wrong cuz my 4chan daddies told me so
>refuses to read anything except Nietzsche

Why is /lit/ like this

[Anonymous No.16096931]

>>16096879
There is something wrong with you.

[Anonymous No.16097087]

>>16096098
Gattungswesen. "However, in the sixth Theses on Feuerbach (1845), Marx criticizes the traditional conception of human nature as a species which incarnates itself in each individual, instead arguing that human nature is formed by the totality of social relations. Thus, the whole of human nature is not understood, as in classical idealist philosophy, as permanent and universal: the species-being is always determined in a specific social and historical formation, with some aspects being biological. "

[Anonymous No.16097703]

>>16096401
Impressive transformation from left self hating jew which I assumed to be the most rigid tar stuck position to move out of. So what does that make you now?

[Anonymous No.16097717]

>>16096098
>he inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man
If you believe in that, then there are even more reasons to develop a system to limit it and push these desires into something positive.

[Anonymous No.16097727]

>>16096146
This is true, but I think it can be extended to nearly all realms of art except film. There have been great socialist writers, but none of them adopted the views of Marxism. I think historical materialism is too restrictive a framework top allow for creative energies required for artistic greatness.

[Anonymous No.16097734]

>>16096179
>He doesn't know that most scientists lean left

This is you. You are retarded.

[Anonymous No.16097743]

>>16096695
You are purposefully miscontrusing everything he is saying, youre either a young teen woman or testosterone challenged male.

[Anonymous No.16097748]

>>16096401
>I'm a tranny Jewish banker, so trust me, I'll tell you how things really are
I don't fucking think so Moshette

[Anonymous No.16097762]

>>16097734
Most pop scientists do, Id be wary of accepting any real “statistic” or anecdote on whether or not the broad range of people who are considered scientists by definition lean mostly one way or the other.

[Anonymous No.16097765]

>>16096098
>Read a lot
>Become aware of the inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man
>Desire a way to fight those natural urges and attempt to make something better, even if it may just be endless striving
That was a tough one

[Anonymous No.16097776]

>>16096098
The types who make sure everyone around them knows how into "literature" they are, aka usually narcissistic people in their 20s and 30s, is the same demgraphic for leftism. They are decently smart probably, but believe they are far smarter than they are. The overlap between this kind of narcissism and leftism is nearly 1:1.

[Anonymous No.16097783]

>>16096216
imagine looking at other primate societies and coming to the conclusion that humans are the worst and most violent

[Anonymous No.16097793]

>>16097762
I graduated from one of the top ten STEM schools in the country with a degree in physics last year and the DSA was the single largest political club on campus, my class had several annoying chicks who would always try to get the rest of us to join. It was not composed of humanities majors either because we literally don't offer them.

[Anonymous No.16097795]

>>16097776
That's sounds like the average /lit/ poster, not leftist.

Besides, why would you go on about what you read to make people you see as below of you think better of you?

[Anonymous No.16097796]

>>16096168
based

[Anonymous No.16097800]

>>16096207
Read something real.

[Anonymous No.16097804]

>>16096860
They want to be cavemen with iphones.

[Anonymous No.16097820]

>>16097793
So students. Not actually any experienced career scientists. Almost every university leans left.

[Anonymous No.16097840]

>>16097783
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.16097846]

>history exists
>liberals and fascists are mad

chiming in to say that just because "everything is historically conditioned" doesn't mean that "nothing is real"

some version of morality has always existed (to summarize Kant), but the possibilities for our interpretation and expression of such is limited by our historical moment (to summarize Nietzsche)

philosophically Marx doesn't add all that much to this conversation, he simply applies a rigorous theoretical method towards a critique of capitalism, which is the dominant economic mode of his (and our) epoch

[Anonymous No.16097871]

>>16097820
They don't grow on trees, anon. A large sample of the people who will be professional scientists in ten years being further left than the rest of the population is a good indicator that the group will remain skewed that way in the future. Plus, the overwhelming majority of professors and grad students (at least the ones who weren't chinks) supported them, some just being sympathetic, others being vocal.
>But those are just muh marxist professors indoctrinating the kids, not real scientists!
Being a well-funded research professor at a large university is what the best scientists in their fields do.

[Anonymous No.16098018]

>>16097871
I dont think “these kids” are indoctrinated in the slightest. Seems more an indicator of being well educated and unjaded with a lack of world experience. However I say this only in relation to marxists, Im not going to smear almost every ideology which is associated with being “left” as doe-eyed.

Also I feel labelling them as “left” isnt really specific, do you mean most are Marxist-Leninist? Anarchist? Liberal Socialist? I also feel if you are at quite an ethnically diverse university as I was most are actually very socially conservative with libertarian leanings when it comes to personal freedom, however
economically left wing and anti-homogenous. (Unless they were raised in fairly segregated communities which is very common where im from).

In my personal experience, when I hear universities are “left” its usually an ignorant generalisation of political affliations of students and professors that is applied out of some hope that the future intellectual generations are going to be part of a influential unified left and influence society for the better. It wont happen, mostly because of the assumption that everyone who is left of right is going to use their vote the same or at all.

[Anonymous No.16098154]

>>16097846
>being a cuck to history and its so-called laws
Marxists are almost as bad as Stoics.

[Anonymous No.16098175]

>>16096098
If man was truly selfish we would already be living in communism. The fact that so many people are selfless enough to spend their lives making other people rich proves the opposite

[Anonymous No.16098176]

>>16096285
based

[Anonymous No.16098188]

>>16096333
>What are hunter-gatherer bands?

[Anonymous No.16098443]

>>16096146
wtf ?!

[Anonymous No.16098456]

>>16096098
Any English lit major in uni has required critical theory indoctrination courses.

[Anonymous No.16098790]

>>16096168
>>16096392
Whenever you hear about these utopian primitive societies, they're either tiny hunter-gatherer bands where mass violence and hierarchy are practically impossible, or they're agrarian societies for which we have little to no written historical evidence. Some idealistic archaeologist or anthropologist will claim that a society was a communist utopia because they haven't found enough mass graves or elite warrior burials, as if a violent society would always leave behind such obvious evidence. Archaeologists thought that the Mayans were peaceful until they decoded their writing system and realised they were constantly butchering each other. Neolithic Europe was propped up as a peace-loving, feminist paradise, until we uncovered the Talheim death pit, the Schletz-Asparn genocide-hole, and the Herxheim cannibal holocaust. Even hunter-gatherers, in the few cases where their environment has allowed them to settle down and expand in numbers, tended to become stratified, slave-holding, warrior societies like the Haida and Tlingit.

Even well-documented societies are often made out to be 'progressive' by ideologues who just ignore the evidence they don't like. The Celts are often made out to have treated women with reverence, yet Gaelic law codes reveal how they treated women like cattle. The Iroquois were a matriarchy because they gave some women political power, yet traveller's accounts tell us how Iroquois men would beat their women on a whim while forcing them to do all their society's menial labour - and that's not even getting into all the genocidal warfare, cannibalism and ritual torture of prisoners. Upland Southeast Asians are known to have practiced slavery, human sacrifice and headhunting fed by constant tribal warfare, yet that hasn't stopped them from being idolised as peaceful anarchists.

Now look at those ancient societies which are still often classed as peaceful, egalitarian or matriarchal - the Minoans, the Indus Valley civilization, Catalhoyuk, Djenne-jeno, etc. Is it really a coincidence that they're all either non-literate or their writing systems have yet to be deciphered?

>>16096301
>>16096391
Primitive societies often lack any formal class hierarchy. But that doesn't mean they were anything like the utopias leftists make them out to be.

[Anonymous No.16098795]

This is more a factor of any "Leftism" being increasingly siphoned off into university programs and educated professionals, and any rigorous Marxism cordoned off to the most ignored departments.

There was a time when working, non educated people read Marxism

[Anonymous No.16098808]

>>16096098
>You would think those who are well read would be very aware of the inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man
Did it ever occur to you that they are aware of that fact and that's why they're leftists? They're trying to make our brief lives a little less intolerable.

[Anonymous No.16098947]

>>16096207
>primitive communism
As an anthropologist, this is laughably wrong and a gross characterization of our knowledge.
You have no comprehension of how brutal paleolithic life was.
>their societies were not characterized by competition
False. Population density necessitates resource accumulation. In-group preference renders competition even among communities with fluid borders. Although it is ritualized in cyclical theft of goods in a "it's our turn to steal now" mentality, it still exists
>inequality
Laughably wrong. The class that hunts and defends get resources, those that don't need the caloric intake make do with less.
>oppression
Yeah, strong men never evolve anywhere in pre-agricultural society. You stupid fuck. You ignorant trash. While those who do practice egalitarian methods exist, they either are forced to adapt or change once contact with non-egalitarian tribes are made. Otherwise women are taken and children are killed.

Go get yourself an island and keep your population density low, but make sure to keep everyone else off of the island. But I'm afraid you'll have to oppress some people to keep your way of life. See the Trobriand Islanders as an example

[Anonymous No.16098977]

>>16098947
based and Moriori-pilled

[Anonymous No.16098979]

>>16098947
sentinelese islanders* I was so triggered I forgot the proper group. Go fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.16099115]

>>16098947
What you are talking about, competition, theft, hierarchy, is already something from the Mesolithic.
It's like people like you are trying to create an alternate version of the primitive tribe, in order to justify exploitation in civilization.

[Anonymous No.16099214]

They're lying and don't actually read, like most people on this board (including me)

[Anonymous No.16099382]

>>16098947
>As an anthropologist
Obviously you are not Pierre Clastres.

[Anonymous No.16099413]

>>16096098
because they aren't into reading, just showing everyone that they are. social media was a mistake

[Anonymous No.16099425]

ayo so you be sayin human nature wuz based and communist then history made cringe ass capitialism and now our human nature not based?

[Anonymous No.16099488]

>>16096098
Marx also believed that men were selfish, he even quoted Hobbes. The thing is this is not a justification to allow particular parties to do what their please with the resources of society, quite the contrary indeed. The first economical liberalism, far less liberal the nowadays liberalism, where people who thought that man in their natural state where selfless and had inherent moral values, like Locke and Smith. Marx talks about social class selfishness. That is, you are selfish but, in a point in your life you realise that, for you own selfish good, is better to organize yourself with people that share the same interest as you than to do whatever you want whenever you like, this oftenly derives in prison or death. So you sacrifice some of your interest for your shared ones. Marx wanted to teach workers economics to explain to them why they are a little bit more poor every day, and to help them organize so they can steal all the property from the capitalist for themselves and kill their children to avoid future claimants (very altruistic of them...). The capitalism because of selfishness narrative is adopted only by people who watch too much TV.

[Anonymous No.16099585]

>>16096179
You don't think in numbers, you think in English my friend. Most scientist don't even understand the epistemology of science. Like that mongoloid math-boy Stephen Hawking who talked about the "origin" of the universe and has to be told what to do by Chomsky

[Anonymous No.16099712]

>>16096168
>competition and inequality are unnatural
>the most fundamental part of the way life changes is evolution
>evolution is the result of competition acting on phenotypic differences (ie inequalities)
I don’t understand how Marxists can claim to be materialists with such a poor understanding of the materialistic (though not atheistic) explanation for the function of life that they supposedly believe in.

[Anonymous No.16100287]

>>16099712
Or maybe it's your version of evolution that is outdated, tainted by Capitalism, and twisted in order to maintain the statu quo.
https://upliftconnect.com/collaboration-not-competition-helped-us-evolve/

[Anonymous No.16100300]

>>16096098
Because useful people are already engaged in things that actually matter, unlike literature.

[Anonymous No.16100336]

>>16100287
fucking please, there are instances of collaboration in evolution, some extremely important, but the basic mechanism is the selection of only some organisms of each generation based on competition between them in an environment. You can't escape that basic dynamic.

[Anonymous No.16100389]

>>16097820
Universities are actually far right.

[Anonymous No.16100392]

>>16096168
this has to be bait, i mean can someone actually be this brain dead

[Anonymous No.16100399]

>>16096098
>would be very aware of the inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man, no?
Yes and we realize that capitalism is inheretly exploitative

[Anonymous No.16100406]

>>16100389
this

[Anonymous No.16100410]

>>16100389
How much dopamine do you actually get from shit posting?

[Anonymous No.16100421]

>>16098188
yea those fuckers also ate their young's brain, lets revert back to that retard

[Anonymous No.16100434]

>>16100410
Most unis except the less prestigious ones are full to the brim with either liberals or rich foreign students who are invariably far right.

[Anonymous No.16100445]

>>16100389
Universities are certainly not promoting patriarchal theocratic monarchy.

[Anonymous No.16100453]

>>16100434
In the US? Because this is not the case, at all, in Europe.

Left leaning thinking is the overwhelming tendency in the Humanities and Arts pretty much everywhere. Law is right wing by nature, Engineering as well, to a lesser extend. What's left? Science? Can't see a trend there.

[Anonymous No.16100455]

>>16096570
you are why marxists are mocked and ridiculed as retarded idealists

[Anonymous No.16100467]

>>16100434
>US
>Best universities are only for rich people

No shit Sherlock, that's a problem with your political system, if anything.

[Anonymous No.16100473]

>>16096633
no nigger, yes humans are assholes by nature doesn't mean that some of this traits can't be repressed, doesn't mean they will become saints
source: where you ever bullied in school? case and point

[Anonymous No.16100487]

>>16096768
faggot christian morality permitting the west is the only reason you are allowed to live

[Anonymous No.16100496]

>>16100453
Dunno about the US, but I would guess so given rich ivy students are used as COINTELPRO operatives. Whenever a grass roots movement gets some "leader" who gives all the speeches and asks people to stop smashing shit its always an ivy league college student.

>>16100467
I'm in Wales, and I can tell you the Uni I go to is full of rich Latin Americans who's parents fund right wing death squads but get sympathy from liberals because "muh Maduro is oppressing my oil baron father!"

[Anonymous No.16100555]

>>16096098
>the inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man
Fake and gay

[Anonymous No.16100615]

>>16096168
>>16096207
This isn't new stuff lmao. Was human nature created in 1651? This isn't the problem with communism.
>>16096326
>Your only way to justify the current state of things is to affirm that there has always been - and will be - exploiters and exploited.
That's the communist view of history.
>>16098790
>Primitive societies often lack any formal class hierarchy. But that doesn't mean they were anything like the utopias leftists make them out to be.
Maybe we have different experiences because I've never seen leftists make them out to be a utopia. In fact they use the violence and oppression to argue against something like anarcho-primitivism. All they use it for is evidence of classless and stateless societies.

[Anonymous No.16100627]

Why don't commies just accept that Communism is literally impossible?

[Anonymous No.16100882]

>>16100336
You mix up competition and exploitation. By the way, if you play the "nature is hard, so the world is hard" card, it doesn't apply to Capitalism, because Capitalism is dysgenic. The movie Idiocracy was a documentary.
Back to the point, the fact that competition exist, doesn't mean that a system where a tiny minority exploit a vast majority, is true to what many here call, like angry teenagers, "human nature". Human nature, which is, by the way not something as stable and immutable as you think, since it varies regarding the modes of production. Indeed, in the slave mode of production, you would have said that owning a human is "human nature". Wheareas in Capitalism, because slaves are not profitable anymore, it's supposed to be something in opposition of human nature, to own a human. So, in short, most of "human nature", varies, if the social relationship, which itself is a consequence of the mode of production, varies.

[Anonymous No.16100896]

>>16100882
I would point out to you that once we get above a certain level of complexity/size in a human community we always see this lopsided power structure in which a minority exploit the rest. Whether slavery, capitalism, or USSR style state, it's the same basic distribution of power.

[Anonymous No.16100909]

>>16096183
I do every night

[Anonymous No.16100918]

>>16100615
>Primitive societies often lack any formal class hierarchy. But that doesn't mean they were anything like the utopias leftists make them out to be.
We never said it was utopia. One thing for sure, they worked only around 3 hour a day, perhaps a little more in cold climate. That's a fact.
They also didn't have division of labor, and hierarchy, except symbolic hierarchy. No fucker to tell you to put a mask, or stay at home.

[Anonymous No.16100931]

>>16096098
read marx fag

[Anonymous No.16100940]

>>16100896
Some small communities have succeded in escaping this "inevitability". Like the Huterrites. The size is a factor. There shouldn't be a communal structure bigger than a commune. Whether they are organized in a federation is something that has to be done, but the fundamental cell shouldn't be bigger than a few hundred people.

[Anonymous No.16100980]

>muh human nature
literally read marx. he talks about it. stop being so intentionally ignorant

[Anonymous No.16101006]

>>16096098
>Why are most people who are into "literature" leftists and Marxists?
There are just as many right-wing economics autists

[Anonymous No.16101022]

>>16100940
>. Whether they are organized in a federation
That federation becomes the new cell. Even if you had some unlikely scenario of every little commune having its own nukes or something, there would be advantages to banding together with others that inevitably cause it to happen.

[Anonymous No.16101048]

>>16096098
What?

In the contemporary West, you mean? Yeah, maybe, considering that our universities have been taken over by progressives.

I doubt that most people interested in literature in the Muslim world, or in Russia, or in traditional African societies, are left-wingers.

The phenomenon we see in the West is simply because writers reflect the thinking of their economic class. It's Adam Smithian self-interest. Literature often needs a state to finance its institutions, and market literature is trash. In my country (Brazil) most writers are public servants of one kind or another, usually teachers. Many work or have friends in journalism, cultural institutions, and universities, all of which use public money to survive. Therefore, they favor a big state. This is self-interested and rational thinking on the part of ANY group that is not successful enough in the free market - not just writers and artists.

For the same reason, most Victorian authors tended to be monarchists and politically moderate (either conservatives or reformists): these were the institutional beliefs of those days, the ones that would help you thrive socially. Only very few were socialists, anarchists, republicans, reactionaries or absolutists, and these were usually scorned.

Also the same reason why old authors would dedicate all of their books to some famous Lord.

[Anonymous No.16101071]

>>16101022
Except the Huterrites organized themselves with a federation of small communities, and it worked well for centuries.

[Anonymous No.16101124]

>>16101071
The Hutterites are not really relevant though are they? They're not a state or collection of states, they exist within much more powerful states

[Anonymous No.16101178]

>>16096098
>You would think those who are well read would be very aware of the inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man, no?

Lack of real world experience made worse by thinking that literature is an appropriate substitute and taking everything they read at face value without critical thought (i.e., the books they read make up their worldview).

[Anonymous No.16101278]

>>16096098
Marxists don't read all that much. I know I didn't when I was a Marxist, but reading ≠ the end all be all

[Anonymous No.16101289]

>>16101178
>The world is brutal.
>It is brutal.
>It is not brutal because of the current way we produce and reproduce our living condition, aka Capitalism.
>It is brutal because of human nature, humans are like that.
>They are the same under primitive communism, slavery, feudalism, Capitalism.
>They are the same.
>I know because i have real life experience.
>Indeed i have lived 20 years with an uncontacted tribe in the rainbow forest.

[Anonymous No.16101296]

>>16101289
Hunter gatherers kill each other much more per capita than we do.

[Anonymous No.16101299]

>>16101278
If you don't read you aren't a Marxist, you are a clown, period.
Like a soccer player who don't play. What nonsense.

[Anonymous No.16101310]

>>16101296
If you take WWI and WWII into account, i won't be so sure. Regarding violence inside the tribe, compared to violence inside society today, perhaps, but that's only because in (((civilization))), you cannot lift a finger without being punished. If you suspended law, there will be total chaos, and many people killed. Of course, if you put a lion in a cage, he won't do much harm. That doesn't mean it is a good thing to do it.

[Anonymous No.16101317]

>>16096098

So pathetic when people try to use politics as a personality test

> I'm right wing and that makes me a real man. Right, mommy?

[Anonymous No.16101324]

>>16096098
>very aware of the inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man
You mean the inherent brutality and selfishness of capitalism ;)

[Anonymous No.16101327]

>>16101310
Sure but that's still brutality. There is nothing necessarily wrong with being brutal I suppose, we are evolved to be violent to some degree.

[Anonymous No.16101336]

>>16096098
Also, Marx was all about shooting people in the face. Orthodox marxism promotes open war and bloodshed against the capitalist. Arresting them, pitting them against the firing squad. There's nothing rosy or cure about it you're probably just predictably misinformed.

[Anonymous No.16101338]

I don’t see how anyone can be capitalist and unselfish as OP claims. History is biased against capitalism, it’s a system that relies on suffering, and well read people realize this.

[Anonymous No.16101344]

>>16101317
To add on this, i just realized again, that OP use a picture of Marx to make a point about leftists and Marxist. However, Marx said himself that he wasn't a Marxist, and it's notorious from his writtings that Marx hated political economy, so both the "left" and the "right".

[Anonymous No.16101345]

>>16101336
>cure
cute

[Anonymous No.16101351]

>>16101344
Why would Marx put his name on the Communist Manifesto if he wasn't a Leftist?

[Anonymous No.16101364]

>>16101327
There is no need to be brutal, if there is no space within which brutality has to, or need to, or have to, express itself. For brutality to manifest, it has to have an area in which it can express itself.
Example regarding class struggle: there is no need for class struggle, if there is no class. Example regarding wars: there is no need to have wars, if there are no antagonisms regarding new markets to conquer.

[Anonymous No.16101370]

>>16101364
... realy? idk sounds like some AI overlord shit.

There is no need for pain.

There is no need for suffering

There is no need for struggle.

[Anonymous No.16101376]

>>16101351
Reminder that Marx wrote communist Manifesto at 30, in a hurry, as a command from the communist party.
In any case, if you read Marx, you'll know that Marx was always critique of the leftist organizations of his time. This is literally the object of Critique of the Gotha program, where is mocks the adepts of "political economy". It seems 145 years later, people still believe in this shit.

[Anonymous No.16101378]

>>16101364
Much of what humans want is in a zero-sum conflict, limited resources. At the very least men will always fight over women

[Anonymous No.16101388]

>>16101370
There is no struggle, if there is no space in which struggle can manifest itself.

[Anonymous No.16101402]

>>16101378
Man fighting a war over women only happen in fiction books (Helen of troy). In reality, men fight for ressources, or, since the advent of Capitalism, new markets to conquer and dominate.

[Anonymous No.16102834]

>>16098175
Exactly this. There is nothing moralistic about being a communist.

[Anonymous No.16102864]

>>16101378
A stealing of women is only necessary in (and originates from) small communities of about 20 ppl where a gender imbalance in a new generation can threaten the survival of the whole group.

[Anonymous No.16103011]

>>16098175
baste

[Anonymous No.16103202]

>>16096098
>inherent brutality of nature and selfishness of man
Ok fag

[Anonymous No.16103399]

>>16096879
>daddies
You can always spot a ""man"" raised by a single mother because they use fatherhood as a pejorative.

[Anonymous No.16103412]

>>16096168
this kills the /lit/

[Anonymous No.16103618]

>>16100931
No.

[Anonymous No.16103738]

>>16098790
Great post, anon. Keep it up.

[Anonymous No.16103781]

>>16101178
Marx doesn't take positions on vague concepts like "brutality", you embarrassing pseud.

[Anonymous No.16103785]

>>16101296
Marx didn't take a position on the hunter gatherer kill rate, you imbecilic clown.

[Anonymous No.16103804]

>>16098790
>>16098947
Imagine being this delusional. "Brutality" does not conflict with primitive communism. There were no societies with financial and industrial capitalism until quite recently. Emotional "thinkers" like you should avoid expressing their "thoughts".

[Anonymous No.16103839]

>>16100615
>I've never seen leftists make them out to be a utopia
You're fucking blind them, m8.

[Anonymous No.16103844]

>>16103839
I don't see what this has to do with anything.

[Anonymous No.16103847]

>>16103844
It's THE book that created the idea that pre-PIE Europe was this fairytale eco-feminist-anarcho-communist-goddess-matriarchal-socialist utopia.

As in, this book IS the book that posits that idea for the first time.

[Anonymous No.16103876]

>>16103847
I swear people these days just straight up make up stories and others believe whatever rocks their boat. Their is no sanctity left in history.

[Anonymous No.16103877]

>>16103847
Gimbutas was based as fuck. She somehow through intuition and pottery sherds alone predicted the current results in ancient DNA. All the genetic evidence collected thus far confirms Gimbutas's account of the origin of the indo-europeans.

[Anonymous No.16105369]

>>16096146
I find his work far too boring to be read.
Other marxists can be quite funny though.

[Anonymous No.16105388]

>>16103847
Even if this were the case, we can see how the Indo-European peoples invaded this 'utopia' raping and mass murdering.
A society that cannot defend its own existence is hardly worth modeling yours after.

[Anonymous No.16105578]

>>16096168
This just sound a wacky lefty version of Protocol of sion

[Anonymous No.16106344]

>>16096098
Social contract theory, and Western civilization with it, seems saturated with the assumption that we are asocial, even nasty creatures rather than the zoon politikon that Aristotle saw in us. Hobbes explicitly rejected the Aristotelian view by proposing that our ancestors started out autonomous and combative, establishing community life only when the cost of strife became unbearable. According to Hobbes, social life never came naturally to us. He saw it as a step we took reluctantly and “by covenant only, which is artificial”. More recently, Rawls proposed a milder version of the same view, adding that humanity’s move toward sociality hinged on conditions of fairness, that is, the prospect of mutually advantageous cooperation among equals.

These ideas about the origin of the well-ordered society remain popular even though the underlying assumption of a rational decision by inherently asocial creatures is untenable in light of what we know about the evolution of our species. Hobbes and Rawls create the illusion of human society as a voluntary arrangement with self-imposed rules assented to by free and equal agents. Yet, there never was a point at which we became social: descended from highly social ancestors--a long line of monkeys and apes--we have been group-living forever. Free and equal people never existed. Humans started out--if a starting point is discernible at all--as interdependent, bonded, and unequal. We come from a long lineage of hierarchical animals for which life in groups is not an option but a survival strategy. Any zoologist would classify our species as obligatorily gregarious.

[Anonymous No.16106908]

>>16098790
>the Talheim death pit, the Schletz-Asparn genocide-hole, and the Herxheim cannibal holocaust.
Post paleolithic. The paleolithic is the paleolithic. What comes after is what comes after.
Since i debate in good faith, i'll admit that primitive tribe had quite a lot of domestic violence and murder. However, how can civilization be an example to follow, after what we saw about the mayan and their hundreds of thousands of human sacrifices in a day, WWI, WWII, child molesting organized on a massive scale today (Epstein, Zandvoort, Marx Dutroux networks, Jimmy Saville etc...), exploitation in terrible condition in the factories in the 19th century, todays China wage slaves who work like ants, etc...
In the paleolithic, total war wasn't something. This came after the neolithic revolution, and the illness that is material possession.
> human sacrifice
This came with civilization. The material we have from uncontacted tribes don't mention human sacrificed, except if those tribes were NOT uncontacted, so tainted by civilization.
I would like for you alt right traditionalists (i am truly apolitical myself) to stop twisting the facts, and mixing up post neolithic tribes with pre-neolithic tribes, uncontacted tribes with contacted ones. I debate in good faith, and in most of the material i've read (currently reading Pierre Clastres), those true primitive tribes are truly classless.