/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16091415]

Wow, this guy really hated the demiurge

[Anonymous No.16091498]

>>16091415
There is no God but YHWH and Jesus Christ is YHWH's only begotten Son who died for our sins. Gnosticism is a pagan lie. You cannot have the Son without the Father.

[Anonymous No.16091539]

>>16091415
The whole Christian narrative makes so much more sense in a Gnostic frame.

[Anonymous No.16091544]

>>16091539
It really doesn't.

[Anonymous No.16091557]

>>16091498
if there was nothing inherently corrupt and evil about the old law, why would god incarnate itself as Christ in order to rebuke the people that followed it?

[Anonymous No.16091578]

>>16091415
The demiurge was literally terrified of him, had to murder him to prevent his message from being spread but it didn't work. But he did succeed in corrupting his message severally through demiurge operatives such as Catholics. Very sad to see. Luckily the few perceptive souls can see through it all.

[Anonymous No.16091583]

>>16091557
Jesus didn't rebuke those that followed it, but those who claimed to have followed and didn't, like the Pharisees. Matthew 5:18-20
>For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[Anonymous No.16091611]

Are antinatalists with or against the demiurge?

[Anonymous No.16091641]

>>16091539
Not in any way. Christ never once tries to imply he is not the OT God/ his son. Gnostics have to rely on the ol' "the secret esoteric knowledge known only to a few passed down by-" yaddah fucking yaddah used by many cults and new aged horeshit.

"When a person lights a lamp, he does not conceal the light but places it where it may be of use. So it is with God's way of life and those who follow it. God gives His truth to us to benefit others. It should not be concealed but show itself in stark contrast to the wicked world, thereby exposing and instructing it. If a light is concealed, as under a basket, no one benefits from it. However, considerate people place a lamp so that its benefits reach all who are in the house."

Matthew 5:15

[Anonymous No.16091646]

>>16091611
Against. Natalism is demiurge propaganda. That's why the French king and Catholic demiurge operatives were so desperate to kill the Cathars who advocated antinatalism.

[Anonymous No.16091661]

>>16091641
>Not in any way. Christ never once tries to imply he is not the OT God/ his son.
OT God is the Father of Christ, but for the vast majority of Jewish history the Jews were worshipping something other than the Father, hence why they murdered all their prophets who actually knew the Father.

[Anonymous No.16091671]

>>16091583
yeah because the old law itself was bullshit. it did nothing but condemn people. try and seriously compare “YHWH” and Christ. The two quite evidently not the same, and Jesus makes distinction between “your father the devil” and “my father”

[Anonymous No.16091697]

>>16091415
>>16091539
>>16091557
>>16091578
>>16091646
>>16091661
>>16091671
Based.
>>16091498
>>16091544
>>16091583
>>16091641
Cringe demiurge slave.

[Anonymous No.16091717]

>>16091671
John 8:42-44
>Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Include the actual Bible quote next time. The Jews who rejected Jesus claimed to be followers of God (YHWH), but they weren't, because you can't have YHWH without Jesus. John 4:22
>Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

[Anonymous No.16091723]

>>16091717
>for salvation is of the Jews.
He referring to himself.

[Anonymous No.16091729]

>>16091723
So you agree that Jesus is of the God of the Jews (YHWH)?

[Anonymous No.16091731]

>>16091717
Don't bother, Gnosticism stems from a fundamentally poor understanding of the bible or at worst being too prideful to accept Christs message for everyone and feeling you NEED to have secret knowledge of the divine to lord over the unworthy. They can't possibly understand the True Word with hearts clouded with pride. Pearls before swine.

[Anonymous No.16091746]

>>16091717
>The Jews who rejected Jesus claimed to be followers of God (YHWH), but they weren't,
so basically 99.9% of them, for all of their history?
>but they weren't, because you can't have YHWH without Jesus.
this is a huge leap of logic. why does Jesus contradict basically everything written down in the old law then?

[Anonymous No.16091793]

>>16091729
I think some historical Jews (the patriarchs, David, the prophets) worshipped the Father, but the vast majority did not, almost all of them in fact. Christ was right to denounce the Jews later on for not actually worshipping the Father and being severely mistaken in their beliefs.

[Anonymous No.16091817]

>>16091793
You are correct but that isn't a Gnostic idea, that's completely logical within the biblical canon and would be referred to as demon/devil worship. The main Gnostic idea is that OT god was the demiurge because of the laws and destroying of man with the flood. Those were the father, and Jesus can not be separated from that without also denying him.

[Anonymous No.16091849]

>>16091817
>You are correct but that isn't a Gnostic idea
It still is. It means:
1. There is the Father.
2. There is a lesser being you could call the demiurge.
3. Only some of the OT Jews actually worshipped the Father, the rest were led astray by the demiurge.
4. Later Jews forgot the Father entirely and killed Christ when he rebuked them for this.

There is still some nuance in Gnostic thought regarding the OT; Gnosticism isn't one simple idea, it's a collection of loosely related ideas throughout history with varying interpretations of the Bible. The one above is the brand I adhere to.

[Anonymous No.16091850]

>>16091746
>so basically 99.9% of them, for all of their history?
The Jews who were born before Jesus obviously couldn't have accepted him because there was no way for them to. The Jews that rejected him while he was alive and after he had died (whom you referred to as the 99.9%) claim to worship YHWH, but don't because they rejected his only begotten Son.
>why does Jesus contradict basically everything written down in the old law then
Except he really doesn't. He got rid of divorce and polygamy, said to turn the other cheek instead of taking an eye for an eye, discouraged people from stoning sinners, and that's about it. He certainly doesn't contradict basically everything, and he quotes the Old Testament pretty often.

[Anonymous No.16091856]

>>16091849
Do believe that the Father created the heavens and the earth, or that that was the work of the demiurge? If you believe it was the Father, then there's no need to call this lesser being the demiurge, and it would make more sense to just call him something like Satan.

[Anonymous No.16091868]

>>16091849
Fair enough. I always see self proclaimed Gnostics as people operating outside of the Bible and making the claim the Truth within the Bible needs extra curricular sourcing to make sense which I disagree with.

[Anonymous No.16091885]

>>16091856
>Do believe that the Father created the heavens and the earth
Not all Gnostics think that the demiurge is a simple creator-god of lesser standing, the only thing they really have in common is that the demiurge has almost all control over the material realm.

[Anonymous No.16091897]

>>16091611
>>16091646
Wrong. Look into Mandaeans.

[Anonymous No.16091993]

>>16091731
stop reading narcissistic motives into everything, it just makes you look like a petulant child. especially when you go and say stuff like this:

>they can't possibly understand the True Word

lol

[Anonymous No.16091994]

>>16091850
>The Jews who were born before Jesus obviously couldn't have accepted him because there was no way for them to.
so you believe Christ didn’t always exist? that his spirit couldn’t reveal itself to the hearts of men in all time? you have a quite limiting view of god
>Except he really doesn't. He got rid of divorce and polygamy, said to turn the other cheek instead of taking an eye for an eye, discouraged people from stoning sinners, and that's about it. He certainly doesn't contradict basically everything, and he quotes the Old Testament pretty often.
Are we reading the same book? Jesus rebuking the idea that evil should be repaid with revenge means he rebukes nearly everything that YHWH did. YHWH was a bloodthirsty vengeful god, and Christ is nothing like him. stop conflating the two, one is a lie, one is the truth

[Anonymous No.16091999]

>>16091897
Yeah, and then look into the Manichaeans and Cathars. Gnostic traditions are diverse. Ethnic gnostics like the Mandaeans need to be natalist.

[Anonymous No.16092032]

>>16091993
Gnostic punks fuck off.

[Anonymous No.16092049]

>>160920327

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit." - Matthew 7:18

>this kills the christoid

[Anonymous No.16092067]

>>16092049
Isaiah was the best prophet though and closest to the truth of all the OT writers.

[Anonymous No.16092087]

>>16092067
cope.

[Anonymous No.16092097]

>>16092087
Some consider him one of the first Gnostics. Shut up, retard.

[Anonymous No.16092106]

>>16092097
I've read tons of gnostic scholarship and never seen that pushed, anywhere. You'd have an easier time proving Plato was a gnostic.

[Anonymous No.16092124]

>>16092106
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THAT WASN'T MENTIONED IN THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES I SKIMMED

[Anonymous No.16092135]

>>16091999
We can prove that the Mandaean worldview is correct because they survived while the rest did not.

[Anonymous No.16092140]

>>16091994
>so you believe Christ didn’t always exist?
I do believe he always existed, but he wasn't manifested on Earth in anyway that anyone could know about him (specifically him, not God, but God in the flesh who is named Jesus of Nazareth) until 2000 years ago.
>YHWH was a bloodthirsty vengeful god, and Christ is nothing like him.
It is not our place to judge, it is God's place to judge. We shouldn't be placing our judgements on others, and then punishing them for it; that is for God to do. We turn the other cheek, God punishes those who sin. Who and how he punishes them is for him to decide, not for us. John 1:17
>For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.16092145]

>>16092135
yeah niggers in huts have survived as well, doesn't mean shit about who's right, i'd say retards have a higher survival rate than others at this point anyways

[Anonymous No.16092149]

>>16092135
this means absolutely nothing.

[Anonymous No.16092168]

>>16092140
>It is not our place to judge, it is God's place to judge.
Yeah and Jesus and thus the true Father of this world seems to judge the old law pretty harshly, because it’s a corrupted half assed version of the truth. Jesus and the early Christians were antithetical to Judaism. There’s a reason why Paul wrote a whole book on the problem of Judaizing. Again I tell you, if there was ANYTHING good about the old law and the false image of god that came with it, it would not have been done away

[Anonymous No.16092173]

>>16091641
>"When a person lights a lamp, he does not conceal the light but places it where it may be of use. So it is with God's way of life and those who follow it. God gives His truth to us to benefit others. It should not be concealed but show itself in stark contrast to the wicked world, thereby exposing and instructing it. If a light is concealed, as under a basket, no one benefits from it. However, considerate people place a lamp so that its benefits reach all who are in the house."
very wholesome

[Anonymous No.16092191]

>>16092135
Reminds me of that meme where the theist gets hammered by the professor.

[Anonymous No.16092218]

>>16092168
>if there was ANYTHING good about the old law and the false image of god that came with it, it would not have been done away
But it wasn't done away with. Matthew 15:3-9
>But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Jesus says to keep God's Commandments and he criticizes those who say they do but actually don't.

[Anonymous No.16092246]

>>16092218
I can just easily interpret Christ "fulfilling" the old Law as meaning he's put it away forever because it's no longer needed. This isn't as cut-and-dry as you think it is. Gnostic exegesis is superior.

[Anonymous No.16092252]

>>16092246
Matthew 5:18-20
>For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[Anonymous No.16092262]

>>16092252
Lmao hmmm so is that why the Catholic Church tells people not to wear clothes of mixed fibres and eat shellfish? You're coping.

[Anonymous No.16092286]

>>16092218
>But it wasn't done away with. Matthew 15:3-9
then why aren’t we doing it today? if there was anything worth of value in the law and it’s “not done away with” then why are we instructed in the later New Testament not to practice it? if we see the old law of being of any significance, Christ died for nothing.
>Jesus says to keep God's Commandments and he criticizes those who say they do but actually don't.
this is a very long way of saying “the Jews”

[Anonymous No.16092289]

>>16092145
Druze, Mandaeans, Yazidis, Alawites: alive despite being heavily persecuted ethnoreligions
Sethians, Manichaeans, Cathars: all extinct despite allowing converts, with the Manichaeans spanning much of Eurasia for centuries
Conclusion: the demiurge fears the breeders

[Anonymous No.16092290]

>>16092262
>not to wear clothes of mixed fibres and eat shellfish
Matthew 6:25
>Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

[Anonymous No.16092296]

>>16091539
Could you explain please. I don't know enough about Gnosticism and I am genuinely curious and open minded.

[Anonymous No.16092315]

>>16092286
Jesus tells us to follow the law multiple times in the Gospel, and often quotes the OT when doing it.
>we see the old law of being of any significance, Christ died for nothing.
Christ died so that we may be cleansed of our sins. Our sins are the things we do that go against the Commandments of God. The Commandments of God are given to us in the OT.

[Anonymous No.16092344]

>>16092290
Ok retard but you just said "not a jot" shall be erased from the law, so which is it?

>>16092296
There are many, many different gnostic takes on Genesis and the OT but here's some stuff off the top of my head.

The Serpent: either a luminary from the Pleroma, or yet another trick of the Demiurge.

Adam & Eve: Eve is an emanation of Barbelo sent to enlighten Adam, whose vessel is raped by Ialdabaoth and his brood which give birth to Cain & Abel, while she herself in her spirit comes to know Adam and gives birth to his child and the ultimate ancestor of all gnostics: Seth.

There are a ton of other interpretations and qualifications of these, though. In the Sethian narrative, all of humanity is born out of the abominable incestual relations between the first human family.

[Anonymous No.16092351]

>>16092289
the opposite retard

[Anonymous No.16092362]

>>16092351
>durr if your body no longer occupies space your spirituality is refuted

the absolute state of archoncucks

[Anonymous No.16092375]

>>16092362
cope

[Anonymous No.16092395]

>>16092375
>be a tradition that rejects the world, posterity, reproduction
>get eradicated by buttmad worldlings
>cope bro cope seethe dilate bro it's over bro btfo bro

kek. seethe archoncuck

[Anonymous No.16092442]

>>16092395
What's stopping le demiurge from resetting the world if humans will themselves into extinction? What if there is life on other planets and your soul just moves over there instead? The most reasonable thing to do would be to try and cultivate a nicer world, then have many children and raise them in a way that helps them reach gnosis.

[Anonymous No.16092507]

Post songs about the Demiurge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg2076b5Lqc

[Anonymous No.16092516]

>>16092442
>just have fun and think positive bro :^)

The Demiurge isn't omnipotent. And gnostic eschatology usually restores the Pleroma to its original purity WITHOUT the potential for Sophia's incontinence. The Demiurge or the dark principle, whatever it is, is eliminated forever.

[Anonymous No.16092910]

>>16092315
I think you’re forgetting the fact that the old law isn’t just referring to the Ten Commandments. The Old Law includes the dietary and sacrificial standards, along with the autistic shit about what counts as “work” on the sabbath. Jesus only quoted parts of the law (like the Ten Commandments) that would be applicable to literally any general concept of god and morality (love thy god, love thy neighbor)

[Anonymous No.16092936]

>>16091646
Retroactively refuted by Hermes Trismegistus (pbuh)

[Anonymous No.16092952]

>>16092910
The Ten Commandments still came from YHWH. The laws Jesus said we don't have to follow are the ceremonial laws that were given specifically to the Jewish people of a specific time. All the other moral laws that were given by YHWH are still to be followed under Jesus.

[Anonymous No.16093001]

>>16092936
this is why hermeticism is cucked

[Anonymous No.16093016]

>>16092936
This is fucking retarded. Many greatly influential geniuses did not have children yet provided great gifts to the world. Also this means that incels are doomed to be punished.

If this is real, divinity should be rejected.

[Anonymous No.16093035]

>>16092936
aaahh aahhh im gonna... im gonna... REPRODOOOOOOOCE

[Anonymous No.16093067]

fucked up that the most active extant branch of gnostic discussion is on a chan board. anyway picrel

[Anonymous No.16093088]

>>16092936
cringe and retardpilled, hermeticism confirmed for brainlets

[Anonymous No.16093121]

>>16092936
So this is the origin of trannies

[Anonymous No.16093140]

>>16093088
basically. what trash.

[Anonymous No.16093142]

>>16092936
>everyone no matter how dysgenic, ugly and retarded they are should have kids including niggers
sounds cucked, fuck hermeticists and fuck niggers

[Anonymous No.16093143]

reproduction is doing the work of the demiurge. being a virgin is lame tho lol

[Anonymous No.16093149]

>>16093143
>will never have children
>not a virgin

did I win bros? d-did I come from the pleroma? Am I Sophia?

[Anonymous No.16093153]

>>16092936
Btfo’d this entire board all at once

[Anonymous No.16093158]

>>16092952
>The Ten Commandments still came from YHWH.
which the voice that spoke to Moses was not. That was Christ. What came after was the perversion, YHWH

[Anonymous No.16093172]

>>16092952
yeah because the 10 commandments are basic rules for any god. they were the only truthful things to come out of the old covenant, everything else was a falsehood that did nothing but condemn men

[Anonymous No.16093173]

>>16093158
YHWH and God the Father are two terms for the same being. Jesus is the begotten of God the Father, whom the Jews called YHWH.

[Anonymous No.16093185]

>>16092936
holy...BASED

[Anonymous No.16093191]

>>16091415
All your Gnosticism this and your demiurge that, I just wanna grill for father, son and holy spirit's sake, also fuck the old testament.

[Anonymous No.16093206]

>>16093172
Matthew 22:36-40
>Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
According to Jesus, the two greatest commandments are from Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and neither are apart of the Ten Commandments.

[Anonymous No.16093250]

>>16092344
>The Serpent: either a luminary from the Pleroma, or yet another trick of the Demiurge
ok makes sense
>Adam & Eve: Eve is an emanation of Barbelo sent to enlighten Adam
what the fuck
>whose vessel is raped by Ialdabaoth and his brood
i'm sorry anon, but how is that a simpler/better explanation than "Adam went unto Eve and she bore Cain, then Abel" (paraphrase)

you further cement my view of Gnosticism as hippie shit that spins a new ("Sethian" for example) narrative for its own sake

[Anonymous No.16093261]

>>16092936
Thomas Aquinas is now a tranny lmao

[Anonymous No.16093275]

>>16093250
you're retarded. the Christian bible wasn't even canonized by the time the sethians were around (roughly Plotinus' time). do you have any idea how diverse early Christian groups and intertestamental Jews were, how heterogenous their interpretation of these materials?

it's a better explanation because it provides a more satisfactory answer for the problem of evil. cain and abel are the ancestors of all the archontic, bestial races. the hylics and psychics, respectively. seth is the ancestor of all spiritual people, the children of light = the gnostics. eve is an emanation of an androgynous principle sent to grant adam divine knowledge about the true nature of the world.