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/lit/ - Literature

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16083426 No.16083426 [Reply] [Original]

looking for essential anti police literature, preferably from self-identifying marxists arguing specifically for police abolition. is angela davis the best person to read for this or are there more essential texts/authors?

>> No.16083451

Why would a marxist bother with this bourgeous utopian bullshit? Marxists organize and arm labour, to contest elections or take control of states directly, whichever works. What would using bourgeois political and legislative machinery to "abolish" some random bourgeois institution have to do with marxism?

>> No.16084540
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16084540

Yeah I'm thinkin' you need to read Lenin and then get back.

>> No.16084571

Marx was a grifting, talentless moron who didn't understand human nature. His anthropological "theories" have been torn to shreds and his system has caused a hundred million or so deaths.

You weirdos wanna perish on a hill defending the madman go ahead.

>> No.16084604

>>16084571
>Marx
>Muh human nature
Holy shit arguing with reactionaries is tiring you all use the same 5 retarded arguments, I promise you haven't even read Marx. But sure, "Human nature".
What in human nature refutes Marxism? I'm 90% sure you'll answer something retarded but let's see.

>> No.16084620

>>16083426
>marxists
So by this you mean Marxist-Leninists. Statists.
This is a bait thread. You just want a shit flinging contest.

>> No.16084628

>>16084571
Don't scarequote the things you don't like, it just makes you look like a disingenuous pussy.

If you show me a movie you think is good and I dislike it, I don't say NICE SO-CALLED "MOVIE" (IF THAT EVEN IS ITS REAL NAME), I just say "that's a shit movie dude." I am not doubting the very fact that it's a movie.

>> No.16084633

>>16083426
The anti-police thing is mostly an anarchist thing, if you ask a ML they might take some critiques of the state and apply it to current systems because they're essentially capitalist but I don't know if that's what you're looking for

>> No.16084640

Just look at verso they been shilling that kind of shit lately. One of more recent "self policed" ended up being not peaceful and lacking in justice. But hey who cares, not a catchy slogan

>> No.16084652

>>16083426
The cargo cult slogans are so tiresome. No justice no peace must be 200 years old by now.

>> No.16084667

Abolish the police is retarded anarchist LARP, obviously it is. They're all upper middle class rich kids. Any person who lives in a poor neighborhood will be against it, I know, I am one. Like sure I support directing funds from the police to community support and the like but "abolishing" is absolutely retarded.

>> No.16084687

>>16084571
BASED. Absolutely correct. Marx is a historical usurper who was only interested in Communism insofar as he was generally thought to be its "leader".

>> No.16084695
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16084695

>>16083426
>We need to abolish the Police Department and replace them with the Department of Community Safety and Violence Prevention
Never fails to get a laugh out of me. What the fuck happened to education in America?

>> No.16084696

>>16084687
Lmao go read Marx and come back you stupid inbred monkey. He wanted absolute democracy, this is mentioned again and again in his works.
Socialism is the only way there can be actual democracy that represents the people, he didn't want dictators he wanted democracy.

>> No.16084699

>>16084667
The point is that people can take care of themselves. Some places have neighborhood watch programs already. It can, and should, be just like that, only more serious organization should take place.
I agree this can all go sour, but it has great potential to train people to become an organized responsible community.
Does this frighten you?

>> No.16084706

>>16084699
This post reeks of gated community, fuck off.

>> No.16084711

>>16084667
they usually cope and say thats what they actually mean by "abolish" and "defund" the police. Nuance doesnt make good propaganda signs I guess. Still kind of dumb since underpolicing is actually an issue in many of these places and removing funds to some ineffectual initiative will probably be a waste

>> No.16084724

>>16084706
Why? I hate those. Never lived in one and think places shouldn’t put them up.
Neighborhood watches won’t need them. Maybe what reeks is in your own nostrils

>> No.16084725

>>16084699
or you know have people whos actual full time job is to do that shit. Fuck what are they called again

>> No.16084740

>>16084725
In this case, someone you know from your neighborhood.
Fuck your police bootlicking bullshit

>> No.16084744

>>16084699
>neighborhood watch programs

Neighborhood watch programs are generally considered racist. Do you even go outside? How can someone who lives in America think neighborhood fucking watches are compatible with BLM demands?

>> No.16084746

>>16084725
I think you're talking about the 'Mental Health and Well-Being Community Minded Safety Friendship Task Force Patrol Unit'

>> No.16084747

>>16084699
>The point is that people can take care of themselves
not in multiracial cities

>> No.16084754

>>16084699
Oh, you mean like George Zimmerman? Yeah, he was great.

>> No.16084759

>>16084699
>>16084740
CHAZ failed, seethe more

>> No.16084766

>>16084699
>Neighborhood watch
Kek, these are organized in suburban neighborhoods right after a big spike in crime.
Imagine thinking that a world where you come home from work and spend one night a week roving around in the dark so that everyone can stop wringing their hands over prowlers as utopian.
It’s also funny because this racial shit like Trayvon and then jogger thing a few months ago are always sparked by people doing exactly this

>> No.16084772

>>16084766
It's how it worked until professional police appeared in very very recent history.

>> No.16084786

>>16084772
To go back to that though people have to be allowed to defend themselves with weapons against criminals. The left seem hellbent on outlawing exactly that

>> No.16084791
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16084791

I too can't wait until the whole earth becomes central america

>> No.16084806

>>16084772
So, you want to go back to lynch mobs? I swear the left gets dumber every year.

>> No.16084818

>>16084744
Tough rocks. A community gathers together and decides who they want. George Zimmerman ain’t getting the job no matter where he lives.

>>16084747
Yeah. Especially there. Image, a community actually meeting on a regular basis and addressing concerns. Like shattering the atomization of capitalism. Does this frighten you?

>>16084759
I never supported a TAZ/CHAZ or CHET

>>16084806
You promise lynch mobs? Racist America will go extinct. Lets go.

>> No.16084821

>>16084740
and if my neighborhood has no good candidates?

>> No.16084826

>>16084818
George Zimmerman did get the job though. He is exactly the sort of person that signs up for those things

>> No.16084830

>>16084818
obviously he wont get it after the fact if thats what you mean. But let me guess theres some kind of purity test essentially so a "zimmerman" isnt hired?

>> No.16084839

>>16084818
>Racist America will go extinct
racist america will never go extinct
america was born racist and is still racist because blacks and whites can never live in the same country in harmony

>> No.16084843

>>16084821
Everyone in your neighborhood is a criminal?
Who shows up to the meeting? A gang of chop shop smash and grabbers? Mafia? Do they steal from themselves?
Maybe the next step is finding a way to survive the coming depression by pulling together a better way to live that doesn’t involve preying on each other

>> No.16084844

>>16084806
Do you often accuse people of being in "the left" after they point out some historical fact? Sheesh.

>> No.16084846

>>16084818
>You promise lynch mobs? Racist America will go extinct. Lets go.
So the racists will be lynched? Wtf?

>> No.16084847

>>16084830
Zimmerman would pass any such purity test anyway because he's not white so he can't be considered racist.

>> No.16084851

>>16084818
>Yeah. Especially there. Image, a community actually meeting on a regular basis and addressing concerns. Like shattering the atomization of capitalism. Does this frighten you?

They already have this shit in every city and half the suburbs. You are so fucking clueless. It'd be one thing if you were like 18, but you're some 40 year old cat lady who should at least have a little bit of life experience by now.

>> No.16084864

>>16084846
Pretty obvious which side has the mob?

>> No.16084885
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16084885

>>16084826
>George Zimmerman did get the job
Past tense. We’re here now. 2020. He’s not ever going to be trusted in that line of work.
> He is exactly the sort of person that
Excellent point. This is why we need to abolish the pigs.

>>16084830
Zimmerman was a hired security guard that did not live in that community. If a community puts a bully in charge of this position, they’ll get scuffles. And guess who shows up at the meetings. The watchman and the guy he scuffled with.

>>16084839
It’s egged on by the capitalist system and their spooks, that’s for sure

>>16084851
Naw. Not like what I’m pointing to

>> No.16084887

>>16084885
>Zimmerman was a hired security guard that did not live in that community

Wrong as usual. Damn, you sure are stupid.

>> No.16084899

>>16084885
Why don't you catch a one way ticket to Seattle or Portland and hook up with these anarchist groups, and fuck off from this board. No one here gives a shit about this stuff.

>> No.16084904

>>16083426
>Marxist
>anti-police
Are you sure you shouldn't be an anarchist, all Communist states thus far have had a robust secret police force.

>> No.16084911

>>16084887
>>16084899
They just get mad. Like clockwork.

>> No.16084914

>>16084818
>A community gathers together and decides who they want.
The Civil Rights Act was literally written to prevent this from happening.

>> No.16084924
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16084924

>>16084885
Kek of course you hate Zimzam, Honorary White. Rid the world of criminal scum and lives in luxury now.
Should have bought his pistol at auction but too rich for my blood

>> No.16084925

>>16084911
Get mad at what? Seriously, why don't you go to the west coast and join a group of smelly anarchist kooks?

>> No.16084939

>>16084914
I’m not much for laws (worst form of fiction) but do tell more (while I shower)

>>16084911
Ikr?

>> No.16084957

>>16084939
Freedom of association is illegal in the US because restricting it is necessary to protect black people. Do you think the State would stand for a community of whites organizing a white-only community police force for their own areas?

>> No.16084970

>>16084957
The Haredi have this in Brooklyn, it's called the shomrim.

>> No.16084972

God police abolitionism is such a perfectly stupid idea it boggles the mind. It's fine and beautiful that the local governments that have taken it seriously (Seattle, NYC) are accelerating their path to disintegration.
Kids are sticking up people in the Upper East Side (one of the wealthiest areas in the country) at a rate that exceeds last year's annual armed robbery rates in a matter of months.
If these ignorant coward politicians want to give into the loudest, and most foolish and miseducated of their constituency, then let them dig their own graves. I'll be standing by to spit on it.

>> No.16084974

>>16084604
Property

>> No.16084985
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16084985

>>16084911
>>16084939

>> No.16084993

>>16084972
The rich people are all just going to move their primary residence back to Connecticut. NYC is so screwed right now. I honestly thought with all the post-9/11 surveillance tech, we couldn't return to 90s levels of crime, but here we are.

>> No.16084999

>>16084985
>Haha, we were only pretending to be retarded anarchists!

>> No.16085012

>>16084970
>Jews can do X white people can't, in America
Stop the presses!

>>16084972
>Kids are sticking up people in the Upper East Side (one of the wealthiest areas in the country) at a rate that exceeds last year's annual armed robbery rates in a matter of months.
This is why American police are the way they are, they have to deal with Urban Youths all day, every day, and if the boot is taken off their neck for a second, crime rates spike.

>> No.16085043

>>16084885
>Past tense. We’re here now. 2020. He’s not ever going to be trusted in that line of work.
You are missing the point, there are endless other Zimmermans out there. How are you going to filter them out. The guy was a Democrat Hispanic after all, he is literally the sort of person who would be in these supposed community task forces.

>> No.16085086
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16085086

>>16084972
>Omg! They’re committing crimes now that the police are gone!!
>>16085043
>How will communities ever figure out they have a swaggering nincompoop with an itchy trigger finger patrol—
They’ve seen them in uniform for a long time. This can work fine. It will work better. And if done right, it will lead to more.
Why so scared? The status quo is abominable. Change is good.

>> No.16085098

>>16084993
And with them will go a huge chunk of NYC's tax base. I read somewhere that an absurd percentage of the city's taxes are paid by its richest residents. Hence Cuomo groveling at their feet to return. The city will be cannibalized by the very constituents its politicians have bent over backwards to patronize and appease. There is a cosmic irony to it.

>>16085012
Few on the left appreciate the reality of what they have to deal with. Certainly police can misbehave and abuse their power. But the ghettos of America are warzones and nothing less than a warlike mindset can bring it under control. The police preferentially hire war veterans for a reason.

>> No.16085109

>>16085086
>a swaggering nincompoop with an itchy trigger finger
Are you sure that's what he was? He became something of a dickhead following the Martin case but those are pretty extreme circumstances for a person to go through.

Anyway I don't like cops, but I don't want some sort of Democrat task force to replace them, I'd prefer people were just allowed to defend themselves with weapons. An Anarchist shouldn't want the state to monopolize violence anyway.

>> No.16085125

>>16085086
>The status quo is abominable.

How have you been affected by the status quo in an abominable way? You have no friends, and you don't go outside.

>> No.16085130

>>16085086
Shut the fuck up.

>> No.16085137

>>16083426
>types in all lower case
Go back to twitter you whore

>> No.16085141

>>16085098
New England can benefit a lot from this desu.
>rich people move away from diversity to 95% white states
>Connecticut can get rich people to live there and pay taxes again
>tech can move to MA because police won't be seriously defunded due to Irish corruption

>> No.16085146

>>16085109
>I'd prefer people were just allowed to defend themselves with weapons
You’d prefer the atomization to continue, because you were raised in that fishbowl. Sure defend yourself, but go out and meet your neighbors. Especially the black ones.
Crime can be wiped away only when poverty is wiped away. And that can only go away when the dollar and every other accumulative currency goes away.

>> No.16085157

>>16085146
>Especially the black ones.

I absolutely guarantee you have no black neighbors.

>> No.16085164

>>16085157
What, you don’t?
Yes I do.

>> No.16085168

>>16085164
Bullshit.

>> No.16085173

>>16085157
Butterfly's life story indicates she comes from wealth and lives in a nice little California beach town, subsidized by her parents. She's never lived in a shit area.

>> No.16085182

>>16085173
There's no way someone who lived in a black neighborhood thinks people aren't already organized through the church and neighborhood block associations. Some white lady from the burbs is gonna come in and show everyone how to not be "atomized". A true joke.

>> No.16085190

>>16085146
You can't get rid of crime, but that's not even relevant, because right now crime does exist. You can have police(whatever you call them) or you can have people defending themselves personally.

>> No.16085196

>>16085173
Bullshit. The things you people make up about me.
I suppose I speak/type too affluent for you, but I come from poor white trash. I’ve been homeless for brief moments in my early 20s.
I was never going to be a filmmaker with that kind of background

>> No.16085202

>>16085196
>I come from poor white trash.

Yeah, we can tell you're not too smart.

>> No.16085209

>>16085190
>You can't get rid of crime
Crime comes from poverty. Poverty comes from state-capitalism. Write it down.

>> No.16085215

>>16085196
I don't believe it for a second. Everything you've ever said oozes privilege and a lazy lifestyle at parental and trust fund expense. You rebelled against them because they were evangelicals, but you were never really "homeless." They were always there and I bet they slipped you cash while you were pretending to be out on your own for a year.

>> No.16085219
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16085219

>>16085202
>We can tell
>Thinks I come from money and live on a trust fund just a second ago.
Man, you’re dumb.

>> No.16085221

>>16085146
You are old! God damn, you are old!

>> No.16085227

>>16085215
I bet her definition of “poor white trash” is something ridiculous too

>> No.16085226

>>16085209
He just said that you have to deal with the problem of crime existing in the here and now regardless. His obvious reply will be "are you gonna dissolve state-capitalism tomorrow, and abolish the cops the next day? Otherwise, we will still need cops that day, even going by your simplistic ideas."

It's obvious because it was already implicit in what he said. You just ignored it and said something non sequitur.

>> No.16085235

>>16085219
Panty shitting moron.

>> No.16085246

>>16085196
Only toxic people end up homeless because not a single person in their life will take them in, and anarchism always attracts toxic people because the group has no authority to kick them the fuck out.

>> No.16085264
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16085264

>>16085215
No.

>>16085226
It can be dissolved by more unity among the masses. Starting with defending themselves is promising.

>>16085246
Sometimes toxic people are the ones putting you oit on the streets. But I got out of it, so fuck your take.

>> No.16085265

>>16085141
I'm from NE and would welcome that. You honestly get a better deal. The one thing NE lacks is that high-energy onslaught sensation of a metropolis, but Boston which I know well is a much more comfortable city to live in. Especially as is the case if you are aging and not a party and night life centered 20 something as the vast majority of these wealthy émigrés are.

Massachusetts is ripe for investment, with some of the best colleges in the world it regularly produces. Taxes are comparable to NY, but it's a comfy state to live in. You could also buy the equivalent of Disneyland in NH for what you pay for a pricey Manhattan townhouse.

>> No.16085269

>>16085264
That still doesn't reply to the actual point you senile old cunt. He isn't disputing whether the cops can be dissolved after x is accomplished. He's saying we will need to keep the cops until x is accomplished.

Your response is "x can be accomplished by doing this thing I read on Wikipedia." That's a non sequitur. You're the worst poster on this board, you don't even reply to posts. You're only here to babble, probably chugging a bottle of wine by yourself right now.

>> No.16085271

>>16085227
Gimme some bullet points for what qualifies this.
I don’t feel like going through a blog post for your sorry asses.

>> No.16085274

>>16085246
Some people just get dealt a really bad hand. The chronically homeless are usually mentally ill or drug addicts, which I guess is toxic depending on definitions, they're often not actually bad people in the sense of cruelty or lack of empathy. Many of them are of course terrible people, but that's true of any demographic.

>> No.16085276

>>16085265
Just need to ship Puerto Ricans elsewhere and it can be utterly /comfy/

>> No.16085286

>>16085269
>He's saying we will need to keep the cops until x is accomplished.
Get your eyes checked. We get X accomplished after. As a start. It’s a great start. This isn’t a non sequitur, this is how it’s going.
Wikipedia? It’s a book, bitchtits.

>> No.16085287

>>16083451
>some random bourgeois institution have to do with marxism?
Marxism has been hijacked by fat white American women with shit hair. The borderline Nazbol commie party in Russia is closer to Marxism than these freaks.

>> No.16085293

>>16085274
I mean the anarchist living in their car driving from protest to protest type, not the junkies living under a bridge or shouting at the wall. Just read about that guy who snitched out Chelsea Manning, "the homeless hacker", there are people like that in every anti-authoritarian community.

>> No.16085296

>>16085286
Didn't read again. Drunk.

>> No.16085301

>>16084695
Remember when the anarchist "volunteer public safety" in CHAZ emptied a clip of lead into two unarmed black kids?
Marxism is not anarchist, it's very much statist at least to begin with, OP is a brainlet baiter.

>> No.16085302

>>16085286
Was your dad a cop or something? Why would an old white lady hate the cops so much?

>> No.16085305

https://youtu.be/VVW9bFBtdpM
You'd think BLM would make people join WNs. Are there any figures on that?

>> No.16085306

>>16085276
Believe me I know. I grew up in a post-industrial NE mill town around such people, and while I am not excessively prejudiced against them, they are unsuited to the climate and culture and probably even they know it. They'd be better off in Florida and I'm sure many of them would agree. Or better yet, fix up Puerto Rico so that they don't have to leave in the first place. They're miserable there and so they behave miserably Only a dour, salty, dour pilgrim soul can see the northeast as their proper home turf.

>> No.16085312

>>16083426

She's a stupid cunt and the idea of getting rid of the police altogether is manifestly stupid and childish, but you'll like Jackie Wang's Carceral Capitalism. The content of the book is her boasting of having early-on taken an explicitly anti-police position which she felt emboldened in as of 2018, rejection of innocence as a criterion for moral worth of the suspect/subject, and frankly cogent research on municipal policing and its imperative to drive revenue for the municipality after this-or-that failed city investment, or other disaser.

Wang presents herself as the Woke Trifecta from Hell (vagina, dusky, homo), and thus perfectly unassailable. As she indicates in the book, a major personal and emotional motivation for its writing was the imprisonment of her brother, Randy (Randy Wang is a very funny idea). Despite this, Jackie is very careful never to explain in any detail what her brother actually did, which goes to her guilt/innocence thing. It doesn't matter, bomb all prisons (an idea romantically depicted on the photograph inside the book cover) Such is stupidity.

>> No.16085314

>>16085306
Just cut off the gibs and they'll leave. It's that simple.
>They're miserable there and so they behave miserably Only a dour, salty, dour pilgrim soul can see the northeast as their proper home turf.
True.

>> No.16085317

>>16085287
>The borderline Nazbol commie party in Russia is closer to Marxism than
Leninism. Duh.

>>16085302
No he wasn’t. I dislike bad institutions. They make shitty people worse by giving them authority over you.

>>16085305
>Listens to Spencer
>Ever
Fucking pleb.

>> No.16085320

>>16085305
BLM riots have made whites move to the left if polls aren't being faked. Yes, we in America really are that pathetic.

>> No.16085322

>>16085306
I wrote "dour" twice here but it honestly fits lol

>> No.16085326

>>16085209
Crime simply inheres in humanity, for any definition of crime you can come up with, you will have men and women who will engage in it. Humans are naturally torn between cooperation and conflict, and these qualities are distributed in complex ways in and between populations. Poverty certainly affects criminality, but it does not explain it.

Even if you could eliminate crime, or get it to a very low level, that is not the situation we have on our hands today. Today we have a society filled with men who will never be rehabilitated, and more of them are born and raised all the time. You have to deal with their presence somehow, and the two options you have are a centralized response(police) and a decentralized response(private ownership of weapons). In practice both these responses have to be used in any system, since you do need ultimate arbiters of any conflict between two individuals, and you also do have to allow people a basic level of self-defense, even if only their fists.

To defund cops, allow criminals to roam, and punish severely those who defend themselves against criminals is anarcho-tyranny, a state most clearly shown by the UK, and Sweden to a lesser extent.

>> No.16085329

>>16085320
https://apnews.com/6a19ebcf35353bb4e5644a2ee77bc83c
They've had a steady rise for three years now.

>> No.16085334

>>16085320
When it happened here in Europe everyone just became more racist, there's nothing that pisses people off more than an ungrateful guest. Even the United Cuckdom got an ounce of a spine back when they started trashing war memorials and Churchill.

>> No.16085344 [DELETED] 

>>16085312
That reminds me of Rachel Noerdlinger who worked for DeBlasio. She always opposed "mass incarceration" etc. but her live-in bf was convicted of murdering a kid over a winter coat, and only did like eights years, seems like not too stiff of a sentence to me. Oh, yes, that's right the chief of staff for the mayor's wife was in a longterm relationship with a convicted killer. I think she finally had to resign when her son got busted robbing someone at gunpoint and/or her killer bf tried to run over the cops during a traffic stop, but according to her mass incarceration is all a white conspiracy.

>> No.16085346

>>16085334
Americans imported blacks as slaves, so it's a bit different there. They really do 'owe' them something in a sense.

>> No.16085354

>>16085334
>Even the United Cuckdom got an ounce of a spine back when they started trashing war memorials and Churchill.

Did they? Last I saw they took niggers chimping out all over their history like a bunch of pussies. Admittedly there's not a whole lot that you can do when the state throws the book at you for defending yourself but acquits niggers by the dozens every day for much worse, but still.

>> No.16085355

>>16085329
That's the SPLC counting groups it put on its own list over the last few years. They are a partisan group, not an objective source of intelligence on white nationalist groups.

>> No.16085361

1. Remove economic inequality which is what causes poverty which is what causes crime
2. Every citizen should be armed
3. Defund the police and military that is syphoning money from the people through taxes which could be spent better (education, science departments, healthcare, etc.)
4. Vigilantism should be encouraged to deal with the odd sociopath that commits crime despite economic equality
Simple as.

>> No.16085362

>>16085320
>BLM riots
?
BLM is an activist group that protest against police brutality. They’ve never rioted.
You are of course talking about the recent police riots, yes?
The move to the left has been a long time in the works since the poverty has been increasing over the last forty years. Most people would still vote for Bernie (the lout) but since the false quarantine people have been starting up a labor movement. Always happens.

>>16085326
What a lot of hot air. Get rid of accumulative currency, schmuck. Put value in each other, become wealth yourself.

>> No.16085366

>>16085329
>AP
I doubt it. US media always tries to play up a nonexistent white nationalist threat because Hitler is still living rent-free inside the heads of practically every American.

>>16085334
Americans are EXTREMELY guilty over race issues.

>>16085346
It's an awkward situation because in spite of the calls to equality issued every 60 years or so, no one actually believes in it and recognizes that some degree of paternalism is necessary, though they refuse to admit it.

>> No.16085367

>>16085362
>What a lot of hot air. Get rid of accumulative currency, schmuck. Put value in each other, become wealth yourself.
That's a pretty insubstantial riposte. I'm giving the point to anon in this exchange.

>> No.16085368

>>16085354
A bunch of soccer hooligans and lower class family groups turned up protect statues. The hooligans in particular actually forced BLM to back down.
It wasn't much, but it's the most patriotic I've seen the English public get in like 40 years.

>> No.16085380

>>16085334
Well, I can only imagine if people were vandalising war memorials in like Russia or Poland or Serbia you'd probably get beaten to death, but then there's probably like 10 Africans between them.

>> No.16085381

>>16085362
Dude, please. We all watched the livestreams of the riots and looting.

>> No.16085385

>>16085366
>Americans are extremely guilty OF race issues.

>> No.16085388

>>16085385
As a white woman, no one is more guilty of being an oppressor than you. When shall you be sending in your reparations check?

>> No.16085392

>>16085362
grandma, why are you posting your panties and retarded opinions on 4channel instead of burying your face in pussy? why?

>> No.16085402

>>16085326
Imagine posting with this level of ideology.
Criminality is an option of last resort in the vast majority of cases. There is a panoply of sociological theories about criminality none of which have acquired paradigmatic status in the literature. When it is poor and powerless people doing it we call it crime, when it is the rich and powerful we call it corruption. Regardless, the tendency to break the law for one's own advantage has numerous causes and motivations. One undeniable statistical fact is that poverty and lack of privilege positively correlates with criminality.
The complexities of the issue beckon. Nobody would agree that a child molester became a criminal because society neglected them. But a gang member? If one looks at the history of organized crime in America, it was those ethnicities which were rejected by mainstream society which turned to organized crime. Where there is a quick dollar to be made an bills to be paid, there is someone willing to do the dirty work.

>> No.16085404

>>16085381
And did you selectively not see the agent provocateurs? The cops stand down and let looting happen yet push women and old men to the concrete? Kidnap people off the streets and pile them into unmarked cars even?
Laws are to protect the wealthy. Police are to protect their stolen property. Open your eyes.

>> No.16085406
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16085406

>>16085362
>BLM is an activist group that protest against police brutality. They’ve never rioted.

I personally watched them commit tons of arson, including of a beloved landmark bookstore and then an occupied apartment building which mostly contained old and infirm people who couldn't leave. An old black man in a wheelchair said he couldn't get out while they were trying to set it on fire.

>> No.16085424

>>16085402
"Poverty is the parent of crime." -Aristotle

>> No.16085425

>>16085388
>Switches his White Nationalist hat for his PC progressivist hat
Why did you think this would work?

>>16085406
>I know them all personally. Furthermore I can tell which ones they are from helicopter footage
>posts rare pepe
The bookstore was either burned down to stoke rage or to collect on insurance. Business is awful now.

>> No.16085430

>>16085425
>Why did you think this would work?

Nice white fragility, lady. You've been oppressing the African-American community your whole life, and now it's time to pay up.

>> No.16085437

>>16085404
>Kidnap people off the streets and pile them into unmarked cars even?

So your anarchist community patrols will have marked vehicles? Good to know.

>> No.16085442
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16085442

>>16084724

>> No.16085455

>>16085442
>tee hee silly boys, you should be talking about books not me! *proceeds to bump the thread talking about herself and posting pictures of herself*

>> No.16085461

>>16085402
I don't think I'm posting with much ideology, I'm simply being realistic about the fact that the behavior called 'crime', that is breaking the laws of a society, or transgressing morals, is universal in every example we have.

You point out that rich people commit crime too, but it's seen differently- I agree. There are certain types of crimes that are more common among the poor, and certain types that are more common among the rich. It is a complicated subject. But doesn't the fact that even the rich commit crime undermine your argument about crime being a product of poverty? It is simply something humans do, because again, we both cooperate and we fight each other. Every animal species does this.

Your two examples of child molestor and gang member are instructive. Most child molestors were molested themselves. And yet most people who were molested don't become molesters, so there is another factor there, their genes among things. Gang members are the same, most gang members grow up in shit conditions, but not all people who grow up in those conditions become gang members, there are other factors, again genes play a role.

You cannot pretend we are some loving, caring creature, we are that, but we are also violent, deceitful, selfish, and many other bad things. Some people are worse than others, and it varies by populations. You have to deal with these problems, that is why we have our laws, which are deeply imperfect, but there is a reason we have them.

>> No.16085463

Why do people reply to known women on here? Stop it.

>> No.16085513

>>16085461
I appreciate the thoughtful reply.

I believe one of the best theoretical tools we have to understand crime is evolutionary game theory. One of the reasons sociology is incapable of explaining crime is that it's not the necessary and sufficient level of analysis. Criminality is biological, cultural, moral, behavioral, sociological, political, economic. The true scale of it ranges from genes, as you correctly point out, to socioeconomic conditions and perhaps beyond.

I do not assert that poverty implies crime, but merely that it is strongly correlated. If you are a poor young man with no job or education prospects, but you can make a heap of cash selling drugs or pointing a gun in a stranger's face, that will be an attractive proposition especially for the desperate. Can you explain white collar crime by the same schema? Enron? Bernie Madoff? Of course not. These are members of the most privileged and advantaged in society but they choose crime because the rewards in comparison to the effort inputed, and to the fact that most shy away from crime, create a perverse opportunity for profit.

Going back to game theory, take for example the prisoner's dilemma. There are many structural reasons where a rational actor might behave in ways that undermine society given their options. The view, dating back to the 19th century, that criminals are genetic miscreants that commit crimes because of their misbegotten head shape is wrong. But at the same time, those with genetic propensity for psychopathy will be more likely to engage in crime and see past moral inhibitions.

I agree that for as long as there has been humans there has been some kind of crime. One neglects to mention how the structure of the law itself might even beget crime in some situations.

>> No.16085516

>>16085430
I’d like to see a lot of little Harlem Renaissances pop up :)

>>16085437
>Surely communities will endorse kidnapping
Only neo nazi neighborhoods, I suspect.

>>16085442
Why you do this? Get that off your phone, please.

>>16085463
>Why aren’t people pulling on each others dicks all day?

>> No.16085532

There's just something immature about people who have a seething hatred of the police.

>> No.16085546

>>16085513
Game theory is an interesting way to look at it, it definitely explains many of the instances in which people are not trying to be bad but the overall system just creates circumstances in which they have to be because being otherwise will lead to personal ruin. Incentives.

But I do think there are also just inherent negativities in the human condition that lead us to be 'criminal'. We can fight against them, and there are social processes we have developed to temper this predisposition, but I don't think we can really eradicate them.

I am also somewhat pessmistic about the large scale political structures we form because I feel that the amoral have a certain advantage there, being able to take any number of options, rather than limiting themselves to the moral options, it seems that they will generally win out. The only counterbalancing force is the degree to which moral cooperation in a group is more powerful than amoral action, which is a factor, but how much of a factor it is, and specifically who is included within the group that is dealt with morally(as in the ingroup will be dealt with morally but outgroups can be ruthlessly exploited) makes me not very hopeful about the outcome.

That is the structural sense, but on the personal sense, related in complex ways to the structural though i guess eugenics and social technologies, you will always still have individual criminality.

>> No.16085564

>>16085532
No dear. It’s a reasonable distrust. There’s rampant and *systemic* corrupt practices throughout every police department and prison.
As I said above, they are to protect and serve the wealthy, not you or I.
That’s the fire department

>> No.16085574

imagine being a retarded tripfag on 4chan in the year 2020 lol

>> No.16085576

>>16085564
That post wasn't at you, so why be defensive? If you don't have a seething hatred of the police then..?

>> No.16085592

>>16085546
What constitutes crime is so relative though, which makes pinning it down so slippery. In many parts of America illegal sellers of marijuana could be put away for decades. Meanwhile in the Netherlands, pot has been legal for quite some time and socially accepted. An entire category of crime was eliminated because those in power chose not to make a pathology of it. The same can be said, notoriously, of America's disastrous prohibition laws agains alcohol, which create a robust, durable and long lasting set of criminal syndicates that greatly enhanced crime without even stopping people from drinking.

In the soviet union reading the wrong book was a crime. Does that make someone who reads a book the same kind of criminal as a serial killer? Of course not. But the police mechanically, as is their mandate, prosecute the law as it is written. They are an organ of the state and do not make the laws.

So the point I'm making is what constitutes individual criminality is widely variable and culturally relative. Some things that are perfectly legal (certain kinds of environmental solution or environmental destruction) to me are deeply criminal and should carry harsh punishments. Yet I am not the one in power, so it does not become what society considers crime.
All in all I think we agree in broad aspects.

>> No.16085599

>>16085592
I forgot to mention that pot is now becoming more and more legal in the US as if nothing ever happened. I meant to mention that.

>> No.16085604

>>16085576
Just giving the other side’s argument

>> No.16085605

>>16085592
>solution
pollution

>> No.16085606

>>16084974
>when adam delved and eve span
>who then was the gentleman?

>> No.16085620

>>16085592
I do agree about cultural relativity, and it is intertwined with even our deepest morals in historical reality, so it's hard to disentangle everything.

But there are certain behaviors: violent aggression, theft, robbery, deception, etc. that are more or less seen as universally bad. And whether it's a guy from the block pointing a gun at you and asking for your cash, or Madoff stealing billions, they have the same sort of antisocial impulse.

What i'm saying, all i'm saying is that you can't get rid of these guys, they will always be with us, and you can't even really get rid of that tendency within yourself, we all would do a lot of things like that if given the opportunity too. Not everyone no, but a lot of people.

>> No.16085675

>>16085620
One could take a Nietzchean view of this and simply reduce it to power dynamics. Who are the worst criminals? Empires that mandate their own internal legal systems to control their population to prohibit them from murder and theft while they invade, conquer, and decimate with full permission. Crime exists in the eye of the beholder, and exists insofar as there is a greater power to prohibit it. Hobbes was on the right track with his cynical view of human nature, embodied in an implicit understanding of the red-toothed and red-clawed chimpanzee, that without an overarching power, people will get away with whatever they can get away with so long as it benefits them without consequence. Morality is a paltry stopgap against the flood of hunger, want, greed and despair, all the sundry causes, that drive and perpetuate crime. To those in power crime is just business or matters of statecraft.

>> No.16085703

>>16085675
>One could take a Nietzchean view of this and simply reduce it to power dynamics.
You certainly could.

The rest of your post is extremely well written, and I do agree with the equivalence between what is considered crime and what is considered acceptable force. I still think that any human can look into any of those instances and see whether people are being cruel or good, maybe I am just naive.

I don't think morality is really subjective. I think any normal human would cry when watching a child be tortured by people who he thought were supposed to care for him, and i take from that basic fact of empathic law a greater system of what you are supposed to do. I might well be wrong but im not that interested in people who don't feel the same way as me about that.