/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16067685]

Which books BTFO Nationalism?

[Anonymous No.16067698]

>>16067685
Wouldn't the measles be the measles of mankind?

[Anonymous No.16067703]

>>16067685
This one. Go back to circle jerking with your fellow non binary queers about the sophistications of sticking things up your ass

[Anonymous No.16067711]

what a retarded quote, atleast use the schopenhauer one, it actually makes sense. You could replace nationalism with any word and that quote would still provide no information whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.16067713]

>>16067685
really makes you fucking think

[Anonymous No.16067719]

>>16067685
none that I can think of that are nuanced. though there are critiques in its specific iterations.

[Anonymous No.16067723]

>>16067703
Brain-dead tribalists mad!

[Anonymous No.16067724]

Hmmm why do people with this ideology seem to avoid key parts of the world. Will the dissapearance of "nationalism" make these places more western in nature and therefore visitable essentially

[Anonymous No.16067725]

>>16067685
>a jew said this

How strange!

[Anonymous No.16067726]

>>16067685
Yoram Hazony does by subverting actual nationalism with his Zionist schlock

[Anonymous No.16067736]

>>16067703
This

[Anonymous No.16067744]

>>16067713
truman was the single most disastrous president in US history. created both the CIA and Israel. at least he's surely burning in hell for it

[jesus No.16067759]

>>16067685
leftism actually.

[Anonymous No.16067764]

>>16067725
Einstein was German first. And anyway, Nietzsche hated nationalism too.

[Anonymous No.16067779]

People turn to nationalism when there is no other unifying identity. If you want to BTFO nationalism, put an emphasis on the culture or religion. But the modern western culture is shit tier and Christianity has lost its teeth. So nationalism is all that’s left, and even it is decaying rapidly. Tribalism will make a come back, and the left will be more guilty of it than the right as a byproduct of internalizing intersectionality.

[Anonymous No.16067799]

>>16067713
Einstein was offered to be a minister in Israel's government. He declined it, saying 'Politics are temporary, physics are forever.'

[Anonymous No.16067828]

>>16067764
He was a Jew

[Anonymous No.16067930]

>>16067685

[Anonymous No.16067946]

>>16067685
Sure but why was he a zionist?

[Anonymous No.16067958]

>>16067713
/thread
apolitical kikes BTFO

[Anonymous No.16067976]

>>16067779
nah it wont

[Anonymous No.16068026]

>>16067946
Liberal zionism is 'nationalism is bad but as long as it exists and we get persecuted we will make our own nation for defence'

[Anonymous No.16068038]

>>16067685
Certain cultures are just plainly superior to others which correlates pretty much perfectly with nationality. To believe that "nationalism is a disease" would necessitate a denial of these obvious facts. Whoever holds this position is either lying to themselves or just hasn't really thought it through.

[Anonymous No.16068077]

>>16067711
BUT EINSTEIN SAID IT!

[Anonymous No.16068087]

>>16067685
the one thing lenin did absolutely correct was title one of his books "left wing" communism : an infantile disease. every author should title at least one of their works "____" :an infantile disease its just too funny to pass up

[Anonymous No.16068141]

antifragile

[Anonymous No.16068186]

>>16067685
For Orwell, the nationalist is more likely than not dominated by irrational negative impulses:
>There are, for example, Trotskyists who have become simply enemies of the U.S.S.R. without developing a corresponding loyalty to any other unit. When one grasps the implications of this, the nature of what I mean by nationalism becomes a good deal clearer. A nationalist is one who thinks solely, or mainly, in terms of competitive prestige. He may be a positive or a negative nationalist—that is, he may use his mental energy either in boosting or in denigrating—but at any rate his thoughts always turn on victories, defeats, triumphs and humiliations. He sees history, especially contemporary history, as the endless rise and decline of great power units and every event that happens seems to him a demonstration that his own side is on the upgrade and some hated rival is on the downgrade. But finally, it is important not to confuse nationalism with mere worship of success. The nationalist does not go on the principle of simply ganging up with the strongest side. On the contrary, having picked his side, he persuades himself that it is the strongest and is able to stick to his belief even when the facts are overwhelmingly against him.
Here OP, read Orwell's Notes on Nationalism
https://orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat

[Anonymous No.16068216]

daily reminder that nationalism destroyed, through homogenization/standardization, thousands of regional cultures (dialects, languages, ethnic groups, measures, etc) throughout europe. globalism is nationalism writ large. ergo nationalism is not the opposite of globalism.

[Anonymous No.16068228]

>>16068216
and another ism lurks behind it all

[Anonymous No.16068242]

>>16067713
Einstein was a prominent supporter of both Labor Zionism and efforts to encourage Jewish-Arab cooperation. He supported the creation of a Jewish national homeland in the British mandate of Palestine but was opposed to the idea of a Jewish state "with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power." According to Marc Elis, Einstein declared himself a human being, a Jew, an opponent of nationalism, and a Zionist; he supported the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine but until summer 1947 conceived of this as a bi-national state with "continuously functioning, mixed, administrative, economic, and social organizations."
>Long before the emergence of Hitler I made the cause of Zionism mine because through it I saw a means of correcting a flagrant wrong....The Jewish people alone has for centuries been in the anomalous position of being victimized and hounded as a people, though bereft of all the rights and protections which even the smallest people normally has...Zionism offered the means of ending this discrimination. Through the return to the land to which they were bound by close historic ties...Jews sought to abolish their pariah status among peoples... The advent of Hitler underscored with a savage logic all the disastrous implications contained in the abnormal situation in which Jews found themselves. Millions of Jews perished... because there was no spot on the globe where they could find sanctuary...The Jewish survivors demand the right to dwell amid brothers, on the ancient soil of their fathers."Letter to Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India, June 13, 1947

Lol, fuck you for not even clicking the link retarded /pol/mongoloid go back

[Anonymous No.16068272]

>>16068216
It's a bit odd how few people on /lit/ understand that 19th century Nationalism was a lefty, universalizing movement of the people.

[Anonymous No.16068318]

>>16067958
"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain—especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state. ... If external necessity should after all compel us to assume this burden, let us bear it with tact and patience." His attitudes were nuanced

[Anonymous No.16068350]

>>16068228
Jewism??

[Anonymous No.16068397]

>>16067779
Nationalism is THE unifying identity, everything else is secondary. A nationalist identifies with his family essentially, with people who share his blood. That's the closest ingroup one could identify with

[Anonymous No.16068414]

>>16068216
You're retarded.
Yes we destroyed cultures for our own culture and our own people and that was absolutely based, to contrast this with globalism is utterly retarded because in earlier times we did it for our ingroup, i.e our race, class and culture whereas nowadays the "ingroup" has been expanded to just culture and class

[Anonymous No.16068428]

>>16067713
jesus fucking christ kek

[Anonymous No.16068434]

>>16067976
This anon is completely correct (in his head, that is)

[Anonymous No.16068446]

>>16067685
We need diseases to kill of the weak and make us stronger.

[Anonymous No.16068451]

>>16067685
Did Einstein support Israel? I literally don't remember. But if he did then this quote points out his own hypocrisy.

[Anonymous No.16068460]

Einstein was a Jew. He believed that god commanded his dick to be cut off, there are no redeeming factors. Additionally, he stole everything he wrote from Henri Poincare, none of his word was original.

[Anonymous No.16068466]

>>16068451
See
>>16068186
>>16068242

[Anonymous No.16068468]

>>16068186
Kinda silly argument, if I identify with a nation, its only natural that I do everything in my power to make me and my nation free from foreign influence.

[Anonymous No.16068481]

>>16068468
Maybe you suffer from collective narcissism
https://cognitiontoday.com/2020/07/collective-narcissism-nationalism-toxic-groups/

[Anonymous No.16068493]

>>16067685
>Identifying with your nation
>oh no my nation is now full of LGBT pedophiles what will I do!
I identify with my race, and with other people who have blue or green eyes, and with other people who follow the teachings of Savitri Devi.

[Anonymous No.16068499]

>>16068481

LOL if you haven't realized that the modern psychology has politicized mental illness to defend the liberal hegemony you're beyond dumb

I guess everyone prior to the enlightenment suffered from collective narcissism

[Anonymous No.16068503]

>>16068493
nation =/= country

[Anonymous No.16068509]

>>16068481
>collective narcissism
youre just making up nonsense terms now

[Anonymous No.16068513]

>>16068414
>when we destroy others its based!
>when we're getting destroyed we whine about jews

[Anonymous No.16068516]

>>16067828
You're a Jew.

[Anonymous No.16068524]

>>16068503
Yeah ok.

[Anonymous No.16068534]

>>16068513
Literally Yes,

"When X happens to Y group it's bad, when X happens to Z group it's good" is an old political premise that 99% of people in fringe politics can't understand
If you get it congrats you are based

[Anonymous No.16068541]

>>16068534
Being a hypocrite is for faggots regardless of who's doing it. Faggot.

[Anonymous No.16068556]

>>16068541
wow you're really low iq aren't you? this is your brain on nigger

I would only be a hypocrite if i said "X is bad in general" as opposed to "X is bad IF IT HAPPENS TO ME"

[Anonymous No.16068559]

whole lotta spooked anons in this thread

[Anonymous No.16068568]

>>16068534
>Is an old trick
You've never read Crystallizing Public Opinion have you? Or any Edward Bernay?

[Anonymous No.16068580]

>>16068568
What about it?

[Anonymous No.16068586]

>>16068559
exactly
Nationalism is a spook because you don't know anything about another person within the nation. How the hell can there be a sense of community when everyone in the nation has a different conception of what the nation is?

[Anonymous No.16068594]

>>16068580
Then you should know that every opposing group will follow the retarded rules you just wrote about, and just by turning out in a group they have propagandized themselves.

[Anonymous No.16068595]

>>16068556
Are you fucking dense? The hypocrisy stems from you selectively calling imperialism good only when it benefits you. That's the definition of hypocrisy you dumb cocksucker. If you don't want to be a hypocrite, you have to recognize that all imperialism is either good or bad, or at any rate justified.

[Anonymous No.16068601]

>>16068586
The point of nationalism isn't resonating with an individual on an individual level but on a communal level in reference to the fact that both individuals are a continuation of something greater, continuation of a legacy, it creates a sense of belonging, something like a family

[Anonymous No.16068604]

>>16068586
This is my argument against Jewish religions.

[Anonymous No.16068608]

>>16068595
That's not hypocritical you fucking nigger

1. X is good ONLY when done by my group
2. X is bad only when done onto my group

Where the FUCK is the double standard here? use your fucking brain anon, there would only be a double standard if i said X is bad IN GENERAL, not situationally and contextually

[Anonymous No.16068609]

>>16068601
What if they're perception of history is different from one another? What if this history is straight out a lie and everyone is just larping a lie?

[Anonymous No.16068614]

>>16068594
I do know that every other group will behave like this as well LOL, this is literally what Schmitt talks about

It was always like this and will continue being like this

[Anonymous No.16068616]

>>16068608
God damn I can't wait for the jews to wipe out all white people so we don't have to have white nationalist larpers

[Anonymous No.16068619]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Albert_Einstein
>According to Marc Elis, Einstein declared himself a human being, a Jew, an opponent of nationalism, and a Zionist;
>opponent of nationalism
>and a zionist
Can someone please explain why Zionism is not considered Jewish nationalism?

Even Wikipedia thinks it's the same thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
>Zionism is both an ideology and nationalist movement among the Jewish people

[Anonymous No.16068622]

>>16068609

Cool what if bro, its a useful assumption that I must assume if i want my group to survive, its an assumption true, but it has utility

[Anonymous No.16068624]

Reading between the lines here you guys seem to be arguing over what sorts of groups can form functioning social contracts. Any group whatsoever is a bit of a myth apart from families. The ability for an entire nation to act as a coherent group is limited by things like communication technologies and what shared interests the members of the nation have as opposed to the interests of those outside the nation. Depending on which sorts of interests we look at here, you are going to have different answers as to whether modern nation states make sense I guess.

[Anonymous No.16068627]

>>16068608
>Where the FUCK is the double standard here?
You outlined it for me, moron. The only non-hypocritical statement to make is: all imperialism is good / bad / justified.

[Anonymous No.16068630]

>>16068622
What is your group? We have americans calling other Americans "anti-american" because they are brown and support left wing politics

[Anonymous No.16068631]

>>16068616

Dream more faggot

[Anonymous No.16068637]

>>16068627

And you haven't justified that you've just repeated it. You're low iq. Why do i have to hold the position that all imperialism is bad, as opposed to saying "Imperialism is good when done by my group and bad when done against me"?

[Anonymous No.16068641]

>>16068619
Read the whole thing you illiterate retard or see
>>16068242
>>16068318

[Anonymous No.16068643]

>>16068637
It reveals that you have no ideology or system of belief. Stop pretending you actually like politics, leave the grownups in charge

[Anonymous No.16068647]

>>16068630
yeah some left wing positions are anti american and that's based, america is shithole founded on liberalism and needs to be destroyed
but thats besides the point cause american isnt a nationality, there is no "shared heritage", its germans irish italians etc

[Anonymous No.16068653]

>>16068637
Stop being a coward and just admit that imperialism is good and a justified act for the winner regardless of who that is.

[Anonymous No.16068658]

>>16068643
the funny thing is that liberalism functions on the same principles i outlined, they support Imperialism when done by them and are against it when done onto them, which is what they did in Yugoslavia and still continue doing

My ideology and my politics are based on Schmitts analysis in history. The principles i outlined are irrefutable

[Anonymous No.16068664]

>>16068653
No im not gonna say that because thats retarded, why would i say that a different ethnic outgroup conquering my people is justified, its not. Them doing it against me is bad because its against me and my ingroup which i've evolved to have a preference to, and me doing it against them is good because idgaf about them and only care for my people

[Anonymous No.16068671]

>>16068664
>why would i say that a different ethnic outgroup conquering my people is justified
Because they are better than you.

[Anonymous No.16068682]

>>16068641
That quote is just some arbitrary distinction made by Einstein himself.
Clearly, a lot of people consider Zionism to be Jewish nationalism, and you can't even explain the difference.

I repeat:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
>Zionism is both an ideology and NATIONALIST MOVEMENT AMONG JEWISH PEOPLE

If you can't explain the difference, you don't really see one.

[Anonymous No.16068683]

>>16068671
even in some hypothetical in which they succeed in doing that I will still be against it because I have an inherent preference for my own regardless of our limitations
evolution bro

[Anonymous No.16068692]

>>16068683
That isn't evolution though

[Anonymous No.16068705]

>>16068692
self-preservation is definitely an evolved-for trait, as is tribalism

[Anonymous No.16068706]

>>16068692
of course it is
we developed morality and empathy as a means to increase cooperation within our tribe so that we can survive more, so its reasonable that i only prefer my tribe and apply empathy onto them