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16020354 No.16020354[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Is there any philosophical justification for Nationalism?. If yes, then recommend Philosophical Nationalist literature

>> No.16020378

>>16020354
Nationalism in the modern sense of the word is a pure invention of the enlightenment and the French revolution, so read about those two for the meaning and justification of nationalism as you understand it. In my opinion I dislike it because I dislike the enlightenment

>> No.16020382

srbe na vrbe brate

>> No.16020405

>>16020354
Renan-What is a Nation?
Fichte - Adresses to the German Nation
i'll leave those two for now, comeback and i'll give you more.

>> No.16020420

>>16020378
eh, kind of, but not in entirely.

>>16020354
both plato and aristotle advocate for a nationalist centiment. mostly in terms of city states as that is what they were most familiar, but still. also a lot of phils in general are pro nationalism. Hume and Hobbes come to mind too.

>> No.16020428

>>16020420
>eh, kind of, but not in entirely.
Nationalism as its understood today has all its roots in the Enlightenment and the French revolution

>> No.16020443
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16020443

The philosophy of nationalism is a firearm. Read Junger.

>> No.16020514

>>16020420
Not really. Patriots would be a more accurate description since what they advocated for is loyalty to state and country, rather than loyalty and pride in an arbitrary nationality (Being Greek). A Greek nationalist for example believes in the unity of the Greek people on the sole basis of nationality and not a state of origin. Nationalism can exist even without a state being present

>> No.16020527

Nationalism is completely immoral. Please tell me how you can defend an idea that makes you hate people you've never met.

>> No.16020531

>>16020405
Thanks. I will take a look
>>16020527
>Nair

>> No.16020564

>>16020527
Mentally retarded, read books you are on a literature board

>> No.16020580
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16020580

>>16020527
>Please tell me how you can defend an idea that makes you hate people you've never met.

Just don't like 'em. Simple as.

>> No.16020782

>>16020527
Failure to have a perverse out-group preference isn't hatred you absolute mongoloid.

>> No.16020820

>>16020527
>hate
Strawman. Explain how loving you and your own more than others is morally wrong.

>> No.16020846

>>16020514
>Nationalism can exist even without a state being present
Based and italian fascism pilled

>> No.16020861

>>16020527
This has to be bait. Only utter retards still believe the "Nationalism = hating everyone who's not white" myth.

>> No.16020887

>>16020527
idk anon, the time of nation states has been the time of the least proportional violence and wars. instead of hating the similar people rwo towns over as well as those people who speak some gook language over their, you concentrate and disipate your hatred to that far off gook instead of the town over which you would more likely get in conflict anyways do to proximity culturally and physicaly. nationalism is a wonderful violence supressent.

>> No.16020914

>>16020382
cringe

>> No.16020929

>>16020428
nope

>> No.16020934

>>16020428
>>16020514
i disagree. i think this is an oft repeated reductionalism of what nationalism is. no doubt the enlightenment and the french revolution had a huge influence on its current form, but it is not the sole creator of it. the idea didnt just come from thin air. the ideas of nations, groups of related peoples with some shared interest was already a thing, it was just that states and house loyalties were much greater too. even in plato you can see the distinction between hellen and barbarian, so even if the stare is first, the nation is definitely secondarily recognized and important. the big thing of the f revolution was to increase the already present national sentiment, and decrease other sentiments like house or aristocratic loyalty.

>> No.16020954

>>16020934
This. I'm gonna be harsher and say that people who think Nationalism was invented instead of being something that just happens is the same kind of retard that says "Adam Smith invented Capitalism".

>> No.16021006

>>16020954
>>Evolution was invented by Darwin in the 19th Century

>> No.16021026

>>16020354
Alo zatucani dole zastava! DOLE ZASTAVA BRE!

>> No.16021042

>>16021006
>the psyche was invented by freud in the early 1900’s

>> No.16021059

>>16020934
Yes, it definitely was a thing before. I was saying the modern understanding of nationalism has its roots in it, not the understanding that existed before it

>> No.16021068

>>16020846
The exact opposite. True philosophical Fascism as envisioned by Gentile (And not as implemented by Musollini) is pure statolatry. The loyalty of the people lies in the state and not to a nationality

>> No.16021073

Holy shit, the pseuds on this board
>philosophical justification
You mean justification? Okay, here's one: We all live in the same country, if we help instead of hurt each other, things don't suck as much.
Is that good enough, fuckwit? Or do you need to hear it from some cunt in a top hat?

>> No.16021132

>>16021068
Sorry i thought the anon said "can't exist without the state"

>> No.16021133

>>16021073
How insecure are you? Kill yourself retard

>> No.16021134

Nationalism is just acting in your own rational self interest

>> No.16021138

>>16021073
A cunt in a top hat will be preferable

>> No.16021165

>>16021133
Your mothers cunt is loosely secured after the porking I gave it
>>16021138
I'm wearing a top hat now, suck my dick commie

>> No.16021181

>>16021165
Based brainlet, I'm glad outside of the internet no one listens to low-IQ anti-intellectuals like yourself.
(read a book homo)

>> No.16021219

>>16021165
>I'm wearing a top hat now, suck my dick commie
If i was a commie i wouldn't be asking for a philosophical justification Nationalism, let alone from a man with a top hat. The religion of Marx already has it's own answer on the topic

>> No.16021227
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16021227

>>16021181
reading is for fags, even Plato said so
>...for this discovery of yours [writing] will create forgetfulness in the learners’ souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves.

>> No.16021247

>>16021227
Thats what boomers say about the smart phone today lmao.

>> No.16021269

>>16021059
i guess, but a lot of times that is brought up like its sone synthetic creation rather than simply a radical evolution of an already existent and pretty much universal idea.

>> No.16021324

>>16021247
Boomers are right about smart phones, and Plato was right about reading/writing. Look at OP, for example. He's outsourced his own intellect to a bunch of old, dead cunts. He can't think for himself. He's literally asking us to program him with ideas that aren't his own.

>> No.16021345

>>16021219
Commie or not, I'm afraid you're still an NPC. Instead of reading some other dipshit's words, spend an hour staring at the wall and come up with your own dipshit words.

>> No.16021352

>>16021324
isnt that what talking to people irl os too thogh?

>> No.16021358

>>16020354
I don't think so. Nationalism is more of a tool to provide stability to the state by having the populace believe they are serving something or are a part of something greater than themselves. The state being whatever group can hold a monopoly on force.

>> No.16021367

>>16021352
Yes, exactly. Which is why I talk *at* people, not *to* them.

>> No.16021441

>>16021367
I doubt anyone talks to you and thinks anything but "Wow this guy is a complete fucking retard"

>> No.16021493

>>16021227
Neat. I'm glad you didn't read it.

:D

https://www.units.miamioh.edu/technologyandhumanities/plato.htm

>> No.16021499
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16021499

>>16021441
ACtually, I'm highly respected by my community.

>> No.16021550
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16021550

>>16020354
Nationalism is insanely cringe. Racism is insanely based.

>> No.16021634
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16021634

>>16021493
>The men of old, unlike in their simplicity to young philosophy, deemed that if they heard the truth even from "oak or rock," it was enough for them; whereas you seem to consider not whether a thing is or is not true, but who the speaker is and from what country the tale comes.

>> No.16022568
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16022568

>> No.16022580
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16022580

>>16021441

>> No.16022603

>>16020443
Based

>> No.16022627

>>16020428
Nationalism was the political codification of tribalism or ethnocentrism.

>> No.16022637

>>16020527
Why would being a nationalist make me hate others.
I wish to preserve my nation, history and heritage.
Where does hating other come into that?

It seems to me that you are the one that hates, wanting to see a destruction to my nation and others/

>> No.16022658

>>16020527
you have a very interesting definition of nationalism dont you? Anyways, culture is all you really need to roughly know what people you DONT want in your country, aka Islam

>> No.16022660

>>16022580
based

>> No.16022682

>>16020354
Hegel

>> No.16023051
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16023051

For a very basic, but still a sufficient knowledge on nationalism, read Fichte (Closed Commercial State) for the core, Schmitt (The Age of Neutralizations and Depoliticizations) for more contemporary views and Hobsbawm (Nations and Nationalism) for a more critical approach.

All the works I've mentioned are really short and you can finish all of them in less then a week if you want to get into it as fast as possible.
However, that's barely the tip of the iceberg. Read more from the authors above and later expand to their influences and the ones that were influenced by them to get a broader understanding.

Other authors that come to mind would be Anthony D. Smith, Rogers Brubaker, Mladen Schwartz ( >>16020382 utemeljeno), Umut Ozkirimli and Philip Spencer from what I've read of the newer ones. Read non-economical political philosophy from 18th til 20th century, it's all nationalism.

>> No.16023060

>>16020527
Are you that indian fucktard i was arguing with 2 days ago?

>> No.16023064

>>16020382
baza

>> No.16023075

>>16020354
I'm going to throw the only one I can find and that is that rationalism implies innate truths vs external or contingent ones. This could imply an innate truth to nation > the individual.

>> No.16023077

Hear me out guys- what if, we breed a person that is of every race/ethnicity?

The ultimate multi-racial human.

Then, make every person of this type.

Problem solved.

>> No.16023268

>>16023077
*rubs hands*

>> No.16023283
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16023283

>>16020354
Yes.

>> No.16023297

>>16023283
I doubt that's philosophical or they'd just say their metaphysics

>> No.16023300

>>16020527
Gotem

>> No.16023307
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16023307

>>16020527

>> No.16023329

>>16023268

That implies there will be some enclave of "purebloods".

I'm talking everyone is completely mixed. Everyone.

Problem solved.

>> No.16023348

American nationalists make me laugh
Your people? what people? Unless your lineage traces back to the pilgrims or whatever... in that case over 90% of the population isn't your people either.

>> No.16023350

>>16020354
Do you guys always just mean ethnic nationalism when you say nationalism or what? Because otherwise I'm not sure what you're on about. Every country on Earth is now organised at the national level. This isn't some controversial goal that has to be fought for to be achieved. We already live in that world. Are you guys really just scared of supra-national levels of organisation? Is it because of muh jooze or something?

>> No.16023355

>>16023329
*furiously rubs hands*

>> No.16023358

>>16023355

not even one pureblood. not a one.

>> No.16023359

>>16023307
What book?

>> No.16023365
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16023365

>>16020354
There is a game theoretic justification for it

http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/16/3/7.html
http://solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/The-Evolutionary-Dominance-of-Ethnocentric-Cooperation.pdf

>> No.16023377

>>16023365

Why not just become so diverse that diversity loses any meaning?

Problem solved.

>> No.16023379

>>16023297
Hazony discusses Nationalism in relation to Locke, Kant, Marx, Zwingli, Calvin, Luther, Fortescue, Selden, Descartes, Burke, Rawls, Mises, Hayek, Maimonides, Hobbes.

>> No.16023387

>>16023358
>He thinks Jews are pureblood
They are a racemixed mutt people who steal the DNA of others. They cannot cope with the fact "god's chosen" have turned into a bunch of less than 50% jew mutts, so they lash out and want everyone else to be mutts too. Again I say *vigorously rubs hands*

>> No.16023393

>>16023387

So, if everyone becomes a mutt, we all become Jews?

<music plays

>> No.16023407

>>16023393
No, we all become 80IQ mutts like yourself.

>> No.16023418

>>16023393

What's wrong with being dumb? Idiocracy is paradise.

I for one welcome our AI controlled human farm.

>> No.16023458
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16023458

>>16023418
>Idiocracy is paradise.
Then ask someone to hit you enough till you achieve nirvana
>I for one welcome our AI controlled human farm.
Literal slave ideology, how pathetic. Someone like yourself doesn't even deserve a (you), I hope I never speak to you again, bye.

>> No.16023461

>>16023393

Then again, everyone will be everything.

Like an everything bagel.

>> No.16023472

>>16023458

Besides, purebloods are inbreds.

Enjoy your oversized chin, Habsburg.

>> No.16023843

>>16020382
jako bazirano i crvenotabletirano

>> No.16025467

>>16020382
Turbo based

>> No.16025591

>>16020527
i cant tell if this is really good bait or your just a retard.

>> No.16025606

>>16023418
your AI "masters" literal see you as an insect. should monkeys be overjoy at the fact that they are in a zoo because humans are smarter?