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/lit/ - Literature

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16015501 No.16015501 [Reply] [Original]

>“And he does not accept or admit true reason into the guardhouse if someone tells him that some pleasures belong to the fine and good appetites and others to bad ones, and that he must practice and honor the former and restrain and enslave the latter. On the contrary, he denies all this and declares that they are all alike and must be honored on an equal basis.”

>“And so he lives from day to day, gratifying the appetite of the moment. Sometimes he drinks heavily while listening to the flute, while at others he drinks only water and is on a diet. Sometimes he goes in for physical training, while there are others where he is idle and neglects everything. Sometimes he spends his time engaged in what he takes to be philosophy. Often, though, he takes part in politics, leaping to his feet and saying and doing whatever happens to come into his mind. If he admires some military men, that is the direction in which he is carried; if some moneymakers, than in that different one. There is neither order nor necessity in his life, yet he calls it pleasant, free, and blessedly happy, and follows it throughout his entire life.”

>> No.16015529

food for thot

>> No.16015574

Personally, I felt it hit pretty close to home. Especially since I'm dabbling in philosophy like a complete pseud.

>> No.16015578

>don't be a slave lmao, just do whatever you want dude morals don't actually exist lmao

Ok, faggot. What if what I want is a prosperous country and a healthy society?
Would it not be in my best interest to follow what is "moral", do what is "right", and instruct (or force) others to do the same?

>> No.16015683

>>16015578
This is explained in the Republic, if you were literate you would know this.

>> No.16015700

>>16015529
>>16015574
>>16015578
>>16015683
>>16015501
homo economicus

>> No.16015746 [DELETED] 

>>16015700
far from the truth, bitch.

>> No.16015771

>>16015574
stop pretending to be humble by calling yourself names. It makes people's opinions of you even lower.

>> No.16015801

>>16015501
>There is neither order nor necessity in his life, yet he calls it pleasant, free, and blessedly happy, and follows it throughout his entire life
I wish I was more like this.

>> No.16015811

>>16015771
I'm just being honest. Is this not anonymous? Won't it be gone in a few hours or a day, who cares? I just wanted to talk about a fucking book on /lit/ what the fuck man. fuck you.

>> No.16015823

>>16015501
She's pretty hot. I remember fapping to her after i cameback from watching the force awakens a few years ago. Literally the last movie i saw in theaters. It was disappointing because i used to like starwars back then.
On your question i don't know how those descriptions fit to political behaviour or what Socrates meant by "democratic".

>> No.16015824

>>16015501
socrates calling out normalfags

>> No.16015832

>>16015501
>HURR FREEDOM BAD PHILOSOPHER KING GOOD
No.

>> No.16015852

>Extreme freedom can't be expected to lead to anything but a change to extreme slavery, whether for a private individual or for a city.
What the FUCK did he mean by this?

>> No.16015899

>>16015852
democracy leads to tyranny leads to slavery

>> No.16015917

>>16015823
>On your question i don't know how those descriptions fit to political behaviour or what Socrates meant by "democratic"

read the Republic and you will learn, you amazing fellow.

>> No.16015942

>>16015501
>“And he does not accept or admit true reason into the guardhouse if someone tells him that some pleasures belong to the fine and good appetites and others to bad ones, and that he must practice and honor the former and restrain and enslave the latter. On the contrary, he denies all this and declares that they are all alike and must be honored on an equal basis.”
wrong. you must practice both with honour and restraint. attempting to ignore critical parts of who we are while mindlessly indulging in other pleasures is one of the main reasons why our democratic societies, which we live in, are so fucked.

>> No.16015944

>>16015899
Reading through my copy of Republic VIII right now, sections 561-567. How the fuck did he describe so accurately what is going on today?

>> No.16015947

>>16015899
there is nothing wrong with slavery. some people are naturally servile and fit for it.

>> No.16015957

>>16015947
>there is nothing wrong with slavery.
Cringe.

>> No.16015967
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16015967

>>16015832
Yes.

>> No.16015973

>>16015957
>t.coping servant

>> No.16015976

>>16015942
What is wrong? I think you are misunderstanding. He is describing a personality type not endorsing it. In his opinion this is the 4th worst out of the 5 types of personalities hes describing. Why do you speak with authority when you don't even know the fucking context. Retards like you killed Socrates.

>> No.16015982

>>16015973
Post your paystub you little bitch.

>> No.16015986

>>16015944
Its pretty disappointing nothing substantial has changed in 2000 years...

>> No.16016038

>>16015501
What is his description of the ideal man in contrast to this "democratic man"? To some extent every human being acts in this manner at some point.

>> No.16016046

>>16015501
Neetch BTFO.

>> No.16016049

>>16015832
Why not

>> No.16016063

>>16016038
I'll try to find a good passage tomorrow and I'll post it, I'm about to go to sleep. But, it will be a lot cooler if you read the book and see for yourself, it's not long, and it's a foundational piece of literature.

>> No.16016086

lol there were like 5 or more people outed by this thread as having not reading Socrates.
Nice job OP.

>> No.16016097

>>16015976
>Retards like you killed Socrates.
Imagine saying this

>> No.16016105

>>16015501
If you don't value Freedom you ain't American, fucking europoor peasants infecting this board.

>> No.16016133

>>16015501

>If he admires some military men, that is the direction in which he is carried; if some moneymakers, than in that different one.

Anyone who accomplished anything ever did this. Socrates saw people listen to a wise teacher when he was a pup and thought it was pretty rad if people gave him that much attention, that's how ended up doing what he did. Attempting to deny this is attempting to deny the basic social structure of any society more complex than a pack of wolves.

>> No.16016173

>>16016133
You didn't read the republic either. There are other societal structures he outlines, timocracy, oligarchy. Seriously people can you please shut the fuck up if you didn't read the book. Please.

>> No.16016180

>>16016173

Boys imitate the men they admire. This has nothing to do with the way society is governed or with whether or not I've read the book.

>> No.16016190

>>16015501
man Socrates was dumb

>> No.16016191

>>16016173
Post your diploma, pseud.

>> No.16016195
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16016195

>>16016133

Read the FUCKING BOOK AND DONT BASE YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT OFF OF ONE PARAGRAPH FUCK

>> No.16016211

>>16015501
>he drinks
>he is idle and neglects everything
>HE TAKES PART IN POLITICS
yikes, socrates, no thanks.

>> No.16016214

>>16016195
You are cringe my dude, and ironically buzz around Socrates like the drones he despises.

>> No.16016236

>>16016195


Why shouldn't I base my argument on one sentence if my argument is about only that sentence? I didn't say anything about the rest of the book.

>> No.16016238

>>16015501
Only the end part wherein my life is without order or direction and I consider it free.

I do believe that some pleasures are acceptable and others not.

>> No.16016240

>>16016191
You guys are fucking killing me haha. I CALLED MYSELF A PSEUD IN LIKE THE FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD WTFFFF I JUST WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE GOD DAMN BOOK I THOUGHT THIS WAS INTRODUCTORY SHIT

>> No.16016256

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkJX__xpRmo

No comment on ops bullshit, but it did remind me how hard this song go

>> No.16016262

>>16016214
Man I'm not buzzing its literally the first book by plato Ive read. I assumed, wrongly, that people here would want to have a discussion about it so I could learn more. Goodbye.

>> No.16016268

>>16015501
This all sounds like a massive cope by a guy too unpopular, autistic, and unappealing to succeed in a democratic society.

>> No.16016273

>>16016262
See ya, goober!

>> No.16016274

>>16015917
I have, at least two times. I just don't think Socrates was being that specific for nothing. He obviously have a character in mind but we project ourselves into that abstract conceptualizacion and the result is nothing productive.

>> No.16016280

>>16016262

>Starts with the Greeks
>Makes thread about how he started with the Greeks
>Gets challenged on what he's saying
>All caps rages and spergs out

We got a live one boys, whew.

>> No.16016888

>>16015501
Yeah, Socrates is definitely an unbiased source on "democracy" lmao

>> No.16017124
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16017124

>>16015501
>Sometimes he drinks heavily while listening to the flute
How did he know?

>> No.16017309
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16017309

It just dawned on me.
The political ideas in Republic were mostly Socrates' ideas, since it is said that he supported the thirty tyrants. But Plato's was more along the lines of Laws and Statesman, so he used Socrates politics as a way to explain the Soul and heaven.

>> No.16018218

>>16017309
The Laws is Plato in his later years. He might've changed his mind.

>> No.16018233

>>16015944
>Reading through my copy of Republic VIII right now
pic or it didn't happen

>> No.16018700

>>16016133
You think Socrates became a philosopher because he admired the praise and admiration the sophists of his youth received and thought "wow, I want to be a wise teacher because they are so popular". Read Plato, it's not something as base and vulgar as this, he was a philosopher because he was concerned with higher things, not because of some boyhood impression

>> No.16018713

>>16016262
Don't listen to them anon, there are a lot of retards on this site who come here to shitpost and get into confrontational e-arguments. Just ignore their posts and save your care for the posts of actual insight and substance you sometimes see here.

>> No.16018785

https://discord.gg/4Rk42E