/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15997429]

does anyone here like the silmarillion? how come nobody talks about actual books here btw its all mutt politics??

[Anonymous No.15997532]

Disrespect the silmarils, get kilmarilled. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.15997555]

I like it, but trying to keep track of all the names is hell when even the humans are all 7 syllable long elf gibberish .

[Anonymous No.15997605]

good point, bump

[Anonymous No.15997675]

Fuck Tolkien and fuck the Anglo-Saxon race.

[Anonymous No.15997889]

>>15997675
> fuck the Anglo-Saxon race.

True, but Tolkien is an honorary finn.

[Anonymous No.15998015]

>>15997429
The Lord of the Rings is what got me into reading. The Silmarillion I enjoyed. If you haven't already I would recommend reading Unfinished Tales.

[Anonymous No.15998635]

>>15997429
Tolkien is a shitty writer. Read the earthsea trilogy instead.

[Anonymous No.15998645]

Read it like 10 times as a child.

[Anonymous No.15998647]

>>15998635
oh fuck there's more than 3

[Anonymous No.15998657]

>>15997429
The ainulindalë is one of the most beautiful pieces of prose I have ever read. If you think otherwise, you are a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.15998659]

A reminder that original Sauron was a cat.

[Anonymous No.15998666]

I love it. I wish they made a series about it in the same style as the intro to Fellowship.

[Anonymous No.16000174]

>>15997429
Yes, i love

[Anonymous No.16000185]

>>15997889
>an English nationalist is an honourary finn
Well, that's interesting.

[Anonymous No.16000186]

>>15998635
> Forget the most important book in the entire fantasy genre, read this stuff made for 12 year olds instead.

[Anonymous No.16000226]

>>15998659
It's not canonical.

[Anonymous No.16000252]

>>15997429
I've only read it once and I do remember really liking the first two 'books' of it, but once you got onto the Quenta Silmarillion and everyone and everything had about a dozen different names I did start losing track and interest in it. At least I'll know more about everything that's going on when I get to re-reading the Hobbit and LOTR, and I'll most likely also get more out of The Silmarillion when I get to re-reading that so yeh

[Anonymous No.16000258]

One must believe, hope, that it will be good. Pray for it.

[Anonymous No.16000284]

>>15997429
/pol/ destroyed this entire website long ago OP.

[Anonymous No.16000301]

>>15997675
Tolkien had German heritage you butthurt fucking nignog. Calm your fucking tits.

[Anonymous No.16000363]

>>15997429
I enjoyed the Silmarillion more than LOTR

[Anonymous No.16000590]

>>16000258
is that the one with the Ñignog elves?

[Anonymous No.16000680]

>>16000258
Amazon, bringing new meaning to the term 'black Numenorians'.

[Anonymous No.16000869]

>>16000258
Lmao.
https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2020/04/15/107811-tom-shippey-is-out-at-amazon/

[Anonymous No.16000885]

>>15997675
>Anglo-saxon race
There was no such thing.

[Anonymous No.16000899]

>>16000185
Quenya language is literally finnish

[Anonymous No.16000905]

>>16000899
and the rohan people are literally saxons, whats your point?

[Anonymous No.16000906]

>>16000869
gandalf the white was black actualy. we wuz maiar an shiet

[Anonymous No.16000912]

>>16000905
they and numenoreans are honorary elves, who are literally finns

[Anonymous No.16000916]

>>15997532
the teleri disrespected the silmarils!

[Anonymous No.16000934]

>>16000258
it will be about the citizens on minas ithil accepting diversity and letting orcs into their city thus getting culturally enriched and becoming minas morgul, a much more diverse and inclusive society

[Anonymous No.16000936]

>>16000258
It's going to be shockingly bad.

The production is absolutely full of 'progressive' types who no doubt absolutely abhor Tolkien's traditional sentiments. It's completely impossible that they will release something even remotely faithful to the source material.

[Anonymous No.16000941]

>>16000869

[Anonymous No.16000943]

>>16000363
and I enjoyed Children of Hurin more than both

[Anonymous No.16000950]

>>16000905
Nope, that is literally wrong.
https://middle-earth.xenite.org/tolkiens-middle-earth-doesnt-look-like-medieval-europe/

[Anonymous No.16000964]

>>16000950
I'm not going to bother reading this shit article, it's incredibly plain to see that the writer is an imbecile

>muh saxons were a seafaring people while the rohirrim are horselords, they're not the same!

Tolkien's entire premise of the Rohirrim is that they could have beaten the Normans if they used cavalry, and so they are a tribute to the idea of what could have been if the Normans hadn't successfully usurped England and its culture.

[Anonymous No.16000974]

>>16000964
Lol, calling the foremost Tolkien scholar in the world an imbecile. Good job.

> the Anglo-Saxons were derived from numerous peoples and tribes (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, and a few others), whereas the Rohirrim began as a remnant of a greater nation but were always a cohesive and single tribe; and the Anglo-Saxons were generally poorly armed, equipped, and organized compared to the highly trained and professional army of the Rohirrim.

>Visually, Middle-earth simply doesn’t look like any historical period, and it shouldn’t. Tolkien’s stories are set in an imaginary time in our past, about 6,000 years ago (according to Letter 211 in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien). This puts the end of Middle-earth’s Third Age at the dawn of Biblical events, and Tolkien was very specific about Middle-earth’s pre-Judeo-Christian theology because it existed prior to that time frame (Cf. Letter 153: “There are thus no temples or ‘churches’ or fanes in this ‘world’ among ‘good’ peoples….this is a ‘primitive age’….).

>Middle-earth thus has nothing like the Catholic church, nor any great religious schisms and persecutions, such as may be found in Europe during the Middle Ages. The religio-political setting of Middle-earth is very unlike that of Europe in any period. Mankind has not yet developed full religions with pantheons and hierarchies, although the worshippers of Sauron and Morgoth have been initiated into “dark cults” which lead men away from the one true god.

[Anonymous No.16000979]

>>16000974
tell me then, why do the Rohirrim use a language based upon Old English, even blatantly copying lines of Poetry from Old English if they're not based upon them?

[Anonymous No.16000986]

>>16000869
They've already revealed the cast to include several non-white actors, it's already been tainted and cannot be redeemed.

[Anonymous No.16000987]

>>16000986
what if they are orks?

[Anonymous No.16000989]

>>16000979
Are Vanyar Finns because Quenya is based upon Finnish?

[Anonymous No.16000993]

>>16000989
Yes.

Tolkien's direct influences are not hidden

[Anonymous No.16000995]

>>16000979
To add to my first point, read this excellent article: https://middle-earth.xenite.org/was-anglo-saxon-really-the-language-of-rohan/

[Anonymous No.16000999]

>>16000993
Nope! It literally just means that Tolkien based the language off Finnish, nothing else.

[Anonymous No.16001023]

>>16000995
complete rubbish

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Lament_for_the_Rohirrim

[Anonymous No.16001046]

>>16001023
Thanks for the great argument. How does the poem change anything? It ties well to Martinez' argument.

[Anonymous No.16001048]

>this spic goblin comes up to you and tells you that Tolkien was a progressive and the peoples in his world of Middle-Earth have no relation to the real world peoples of Northern Europe

wat do?

[Anonymous No.16001054]

[Anonymous No.16001064]

>>16001046
It shows that the culture of Rohan was lifted straight from the Anglo-Saxons, including their poetry. It's also displayed in their traditions such as burial customs and buildings

[Anonymous No.16001078]

>Amazon cast is shown for their Middle-Earth show
>go to read some opinions from Tolkien 'fans'
>Tolkien never explicitly describes everyone as being white, so why shouldn't there be black elves/hobbits/men!

it's all so tiresome

[Anonymous No.16001134]

>>15997429
The Silmarillion is by far the best book Tolkien ever wrote.

[Anonymous No.16001153]

>>16000226
Who gives a shit what's canonical and what's not. He changed the lore so frequently that you are basically free to pick whatever version you like the most.

[Anonymous No.16001159]

>>16000185

Tolkien was very fascinated by the Finnish language.
He first came across The Tale of Kullervo from The Kalevala when he was a schoolboy and he started to learn Finnish to be able to read the original. One of his first attempts at writing a novel was a version of the story of Kullervo. He never completed it, but he borrowed elements of Kullervo for the character Turin Turambar in The Children of Hurin and The Silmarillion. And LotR and Silmarillion contain a lot of other stuff borrowed from Kalevala. And as mentioned Quenya, the language of the High Elves, is linguistically very close to Finnish.

[Anonymous No.16001169]

>>16000258
It's made in the current time, it will be shit by definition, just like The Hobbit was. But at least there are the LotR movies in existence. With The Silmarillion, I just hope their stinky greedy hands never touch and defile it.

[Anonymous No.16001190]

>>16001078
Aragor'n pants joke.txt

[Anonymous No.16001224]

>>16001190
do tell kudasai

[Anonymous No.16001239]

Are there any other bits of fantasy literature like the Silmarillion? Fantasy history written with both in universe context and style? Either on it's own or as part of an already existing universe. I fucking love that fake bible shit.

[Anonymous No.16001243]

>>16001224
The Lord of the Rings text never mentions the fact that Aragorn was wearing pants.

[Anonymous No.16001256]

>>16001239
Basically epic poetry, but other than that really nothing.

[Anonymous No.16001258]

>>16001078
LOTR is based on european myth and pre-history, and as we all know the original europeans were black. So it makes sense to have POCs in LOTR.

[Anonymous No.16001264]

>>16001239

[Anonymous No.16001292]

>>16001169
I feel like the Silmarillion would be very hard to make into a movie. It's not written in a traditional adventure arc that adapts to film well like the other two big Tolkien stories.
Of course that may not stop them from trying, especially given how much cash the first adaptations drew, but I would honestly think Hollywood would sooner start adapting more minor Tolkien stories (or just endlessly remaking LOTR/Hobbit) before they tried the Silmarillion.

[Anonymous No.16001320]

>>16001292
The Fall of Gondolin, Children of Hurin, and Beren and Luthien stories can easily be made into miniseries

[Anonymous No.16001324]

>>16000986
They may be Haradrim or Easterlings.

[Anonymous No.16001338]

>>16001292
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children_of_H%C3%BArin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_of_Gondolin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beren_and_L%C3%BAthien
These are still parts of The Silmarillion and can be taken as a basis for movies or series. Of course you can't like literally just take The Silmarillion and adapt it directly to screen as a whole, it would be as impossible as making The Bible movie or TV series.

[Anonymous No.16001475]

Bros do I read the Silmarillion before or after LotR? What about the Hobbit?

T. Never read any of them

[Anonymous No.16001488]

>>15997429
I love it and it deserves more editions.

[Anonymous No.16001499]

>>16001475
Hobbit is a fun adventure fairytale. LOtR is a more hardcore and epic high fantasy. Silmarillion is even more hardcore and epic mythological saga. So go Hobbit->LotR->Silmarillion->Unfinished Tales and the rest.

[Anonymous No.16001501]

>>16001475
Read The Hobbit, TLOTR and then read these books in this order:
1) The Silmarillion: from "Ainulindalë" to "Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin".
2) Beren and Luthien (book).
3) The Silmarillion: "Of Beren and Lúthien" and "Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad"
4) The Children of Hurin (book).
5) The Silmarillion: "Of Túrin Turambar" and
"Of the Ruin of Doriath".
6) The Fall of Gondolin (book).
7) The Silmarillion: "Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath" and "Akallabêth"
8) The Unfinished Tales: Part Two: The Second Age
9) The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
10) the rest of The Unfinished Tales
11) Do you want more before reading History of Middle Earth? Read a biography, his letters, The Road to Middle Earth, The History of The Hobbit, Master of Middle Earth: The Fiction of J.R.R. Tolkien, etc.
12) History of Middle Earth

[Anonymous No.16001503]

>>16001475
Read them in the order that the world got them:

Hobbit
Lord of the Rings
Silmarillion

[Anonymous No.16001506]

>>16001475
no. you read hobbit, lotr, silmarillion and then lotr again so you understand all the references.
then read silmarillion 5 more times

[Anonymous No.16001558]

>>16001475
It absolutely doesn't matter in which order you read them, they are completely standalone books and understanding one is not in any way dependent on the others. And for christ's sake don't listen to this >>16001501 autistic schizo, you'll only get confused.

[Anonymous No.16001570]

>>16001499
>>16001501
>>16001503
>>16001506
Thanks everyone. Surprising cohesion of consensus with this so I will start with the Hobbit. Appreciate the help.

[Anonymous No.16001577]

>>15997429
It throws you immediately in the deep end with FAR to much lore and names at the get-go. I almost gave up reading it in a local coffee shop, but a boomer noticed me tracking from the front of the book to the back like an immigrant with a translation book and struck up a convo on Tolkien and the fantasy genre. We talked for like 20 minutes while a bunch of Baylor girls noticed how excited we were at the conversation. After he left I kept getting strange looks.

[Anonymous No.16001581]

I'm waiting for the day where we all accept that Children of Hurin is the greatest of Tolkien's works

[Anonymous No.16001610]

>>16001558
Poor fool, you didn't even read those books, otherwise you would agree with me. The short versions of the 3 important tales (Hurin, Gondolin, Beren&Luthien) are boring spoilers. What's the point of reading them first when you can read their definitive versions on the books Christopher edited before dying.

[Anonymous No.16001618]

>>16001581
Children of Hurin is too much of a blatant Norse mythology copypaste. It's too bad he never elaborated on Feanor's life in the same way. There's plenty of decent fan books elaborating on the timespan of The Silmarillion tho.

[Anonymous No.16001666]

>>16001610
I read all of them and more in a completely random order because I was eager for absolutely any piece of information on anything regarding this fiction universe. If you like it, you'd read it all in any order and still enjoy every little bit of it. Forcing yourself to jump from one book to another due to schizo lists like yours because of "boring" "spoilers" is autistic and mental. Reading The Silmarillion as a whole would give you a much better perception of its timespan and pace of time in the universe, as well of the pace of the story and text itself.
Like, who won't you go even further and suggest him to selectively read the fucking Letters in between the chapters in the LotR, Hobbit and Silmarillion while you are at it.

[Anonymous No.16001678]

>>16001666
>Like, who won't you go even further and suggest him to selectively read the fucking Letters in between the chapters in the LotR, Hobbit and Silmarillion while you are at it.
That's a brilliant idea. I shall make a selection of relevant letters (fragments or whole letters) to read between chapters.

[Anonymous No.16001721]

>>16001577
nothing like finding a fellow tolkien reader and nerding out for an hour about it

[Anonymous No.16001756]

>>16001678
Amazing.

[Anonymous No.16001969]

>>16001488
Is this what autism look like? I feel slightly conscious even by having two editions of the same book.

[Anonymous No.16001986]

>>16000186
Isn't the Silmarillion written for twelve year olds?

[Anonymous No.16002006]

>>16001986
No, that's Hobbit.

[Anonymous No.16002026]

>>16002006
Of course, like Harry Potter 5 is written for 35y/o women. How silly of me to forget.

[Anonymous No.16003074]

i really, really, really want an elf gf

[Anonymous No.16003131]

>>16000258

If you have even the slightest expectation of this being good you're delusional mate

And that's not just because of the nigger elves

[Anonymous No.16003757]

>>16002026
The fuck does it have to do with Harry Potter?

[Anonymous No.16003772]

>>16003074
That's gonna cost you an arm :^)

[Anonymous No.16005086]

is the silmarillion real . ?

[Anonymous No.16005170]

>>16005086
balrogs did not have wings reeeeeeeeeee

[Anonymous No.16005244]

>>16000943
its my favorite as well

[Anonymous No.16005308]

>>15997429
Feanor did nothing wrong

[Anonymous No.16005518]

>>16005308
what about this little thing called kinslaying, ma*dhros?
and what about the 2nd kingslaying? wasn't one enough? by eru f*anorians are worse than orcs

[Anonymous No.16005897]

>>16001078
lol why do you even care in the slightest. don't you have things to do?

[Anonymous No.16005923]

>>16005897
like dilate? dilate the wound tranny bigly asap

[Anonymous No.16005940]

>>16001756
This has got to be the greatest thing i saw on 4chan. It's all context, i know like 5 of the words and the rest fills itself.

[Anonymous No.16005980]

>>16005923
lol

[Anonymous No.16006096]

>>16005170
isnt it undecided whether they did

[Anonymous No.16007678]

>>16006096
in earlier versions, the balrogs were very few in number, and weren't so gigantic.
later on Tolkien added hundreds of them and made them less humanoid looking and more demonic fire monsters with surrounded in shadows (the shadows which some interpret as wings, though they've never been reported to fly)

[Anonymous No.16007930]

>>15998635
This is the best post on this board right now. I've been saying this Shit forever. Way more nuanced and enjoyable, Tolkien is too steeped in quaint English pastoral prose and subject w Middle Earth. Now, his now middle earth fiction is actually pretty good. A shame he wrote so little outside of his Finnish little space.

The hobbit slams though.

[Anonymous No.16007940]

>>16007930
*non-middle earth fiction

[Anonymous No.16008297]

>Does nobody read on this board???? what gives why not read the heckin epic fantasty jrr tolkien NOVEL???
> why is it just mutt politics or at least the only thing I can recongize besides JRR TOLKIEN thats posted here?!!!

[Anonymous No.16008409]

>>16008297
sorry mutt

[Anonymous No.16008470]

>>15997429
>I love JRR TOLKIEN

[Anonymous No.16008572]

>>16001721
Yeah, hands down probably the coolest convo I've had concerning anything Tolkein/Fantasy related. Everyone my age is either a normie or a shallow fag with no real passion for anything.

[Anonymous No.16009512]

Snake this is McDonell Miller... It's ben a long time...

**Cam Clarkes alot**

Nise thread btw

[Anonymous No.16010111]

>>16005940
Here you go, fellow tolkienfag.

[Anonymous No.16010142]

>>15998635
Anything about marine themes always sucks giant ass. Read Ian Irvine's Three Worlds instead.

[Anonymous No.16011581]

>>15997429
I really wanted to finish the book but I lost it

>>15997675
Anglo lives matter. Sometimes.

[Anonymous No.16011662]

Yeah, I like it, I even own a copy.

[Anonymous No.16011688]

>>15997429

Fuck Gondolin, those hikikomori elves brought it on themselves

[Anonymous No.16012760]

>>16011688
The fucking Doriath absolutely brought it upon themselves, Gondolin just fell victim to human weakness.

[Anonymous No.16012824]

>>16012760
the lesson of doriath is to never trust dw*rves

[Anonymous No.16012891]

>>16012824
Lol what? Let me give you a quick rundown on the whole dwarf issue:

For a long time Hurin stood motionless, only swaying slightly to the beat of Melian's words and looking into her eyes. And he picked up the necklace from the floor, and with a bow he handed it to Thingol, saying at the same time in a completely different tone:
- Accept, O leader, this modest little thing, and I, perhaps,
I will throw myself into the sea, so as not to embarrass the noble and the sublime with my appearance, and not to remind them of the sad.
They say he did so, and Thingol, learning about it,
admiringly kissed his wife's hand. Then he looked at the Nauglamir, and decided that it would not be bad to put the Berenovsky Silmaril into it.
Without thinking twice, he summoned the dwarves, gave them a task, and stood above their souls throughout the entire work. The dwarfs were also not a mistake, and in the end they said:
- All right, bye, we went.
- How did you go?
-- And like this. Our fathers did not make beads for you, but
for Finrod, whom the wolf ate exclusively through your own venture. Do you get it?
Thingol caught it.
- Oh you ..... (term omitted) ...... (verb omitted)
....... (adjective omitted)!
These words finally infuriated the dwarves, and the great king
Thingol Graymantle, for the first and last time in his life, understood what it meant to seriously answer for his words. Of course, the unrestrained gnomes were also cut, but of poor quality, and two managed to escape to their Norgord, where they talked about the meanness and treachery of the elves for two and a half months in a row.

[Anonymous No.16012929]

>>16012824
Lol what? Let me give you a quick rundown on the whole dwarf issue:

For a long time Hurin stood motionless, only swaying slightly to the beat of Melian's words and looking into her eyes. And he picked up the necklace from the floor, and with a bow he handed it to Thingol, saying at the same time in a completely different tone:
- Accept, O leader, this modest little thing, and I, perhaps, will throw myself into the sea, so as not to embarrass the noble and the sublime with my appearance, and not to remind them of the sad.
They say he did so, and Thingol, learning about this, admiringly kissed his wife's hand. Then he looked at the Nauglamir, and decided that it would not be bad to put Beren's Silmaril into it.
Without thinking twice, he summoned the dwarves, gave them a task, and stood above their souls throughout the entire work. The dwarfs were also nobody's Fool, and in the end they said:
- All right, bye, we're off.
- What do you mean you're off?
-- Just like this. Our fathers did not make these beads for you, but for Finrod, whom the wolf ate exclusively through your own venture. Do you catch the drift?
Thingol caught it.
- Oh you ..... (term omitted) ...... (verb omitted) ....... (adjective omitted)!
These words finally infuriated the dwarves, and the great king Thingol Graymantle, for the first and last time in his life, understood what it meant to seriously answer for his words. Of course, the unrestrained gnomes were also cut, but of poor quality, and two managed to escape to their Norgord, where they talked about the meanness and treachery of the elves for two and a half months in a row.

[Anonymous No.16012989]

>>15998635
I remember this book introduced me to some weird fetish but I cant remember what it was.

[Anonymous No.16013197]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK2ImUJSllE
Based Russian tolkienfags.

[Anonymous No.16013218]

>>16013197
NOLDOR
BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS
YOUR BANE'S
A TEARFUL DESTINY

[Anonymous No.16014226]

>>16013218
what's the best tolkien blind guardian song?

[Anonymous No.16014622]

>>15997675
Holy based

[Anonymous No.16016162]

>>16014226
i like noldor :)

[Anonymous No.16016426]

>>15997429
Love it. Read it every year ama

[Anonymous No.16016769]

>>16005170
im pretty sure it outright states somewhere that they have wings

[Anonymous No.16017306]

>>16014226
1.Nightfall
2.Noldor

[Anonymous No.16017342]

>>16000964

ahh angry anglo. seethe more cuck, your time is over and Finland will once again rise and rule everything from Normandy to Korea

[Anonymous No.16017362]

>>16001054
This is pure gold, thanks anon!

[Anonymous No.16017674]

>>15997429
the sons of feanor are based

>>16014226
literally the whole nightfall album

[Anonymous No.16018346]

>>16016769
it is a metaphor you brainlet. shadows and fire spread LIKE wings, why is it so hard to understand

[Anonymous No.16018592]

>>16018346
>it is a metaphor you brainlet. shadows and fire spread LIKE wings
This. Castanol's depiction of a Balrog is closest to what Tolkien described.
>>15998657
I've just read Ainulindalë and it reads like KJV's Genesis - distant and timeless.

[Anonymous No.16018594]

>>16005170
>>16018346
And Aragorn isn't wearing pants because nowhere in the book is he stated to wear any.

[Anonymous No.16018635]

>>16018594
Balrog's wings description isn't omitted, it's outright contradicted by what the book says.

[Anonymous No.16018657]

Are there any popular-level books specifically on advancing the cause of trans people (esp. black trans people)? I would like to introduce my friends to trans theory etc. but most works are too dense.

[Anonymous No.16018669]

>>16018635
>it's outright contradicted by what the book says
the book literally mentions "its wings". No, not the "like wings" part. "Its wings".

[Anonymous No.16018684]

>>16018669
Which refers to the shadow "like two vast wings". If you insist on braindead literal interpretation then why are you not complaining about the "wings" not being hundreds-feet wide if they spread from "wall to wall"?

[Anonymous No.16018789]

>>16018684
>Which refers to the shadow "like two vast wings".
Says fucking who? It does that in one instance and does not in another. One is a metaphor, another is not. It's literally in the fucking book, you autistic sperg.

[Anonymous No.16018816]

>>16018789
>It's literally in the fucking book, you autistic sperg.
Well, it's not me who doesn't understand metaphor.

[Anonymous No.16018838]

>>16018816
It's also not you who can tell a metaphor apart from a literal description.

[Anonymous No.16018872]

ummmm...sweaties? can you stop spastic arguing in my thread?

[Anonymous No.16018965]

>>16018838
On the previous page Tolkien described the Balrog as a vague shape, rather elemental than purely physical. Pretty obviously when he said "wings" he still meant the wing-like shadow because he had established the context for the creature and chose not to repeat "his shadow like two wings" which would be a retarded way of phrasing.

[Anonymous No.16018999]

>>16018838
"But he loosed upon his foes the last desperate assault that he had prepared, and out of the pits of Angband there issued the winged dragons, that had not before been seen; for until that day no creatures of his cruel thought had yet assailed the air."

It's almost like Balrogs didn't have physical wings, and is very much contradicted by the Silmarillion.

[Anonymous No.16019062]

>>16018965
>On the previous page Tolkien described the Balrog as a vague shape, rather elemental than purely physical
This doesn't contradict it having wings in any way shape or form.
>Pretty obviously
Says fucking who?
>chose not to repeat "his shadow like two wings"
No, he chose to specifically literally say "its wings". Why are we still talking about this, it says "its wings" literally in the fucking book.

[Anonymous No.16019084]

>>16018789
one is a comparison ("like") and other is a metaphor ("like" omitted). god what do they teach you angl*s in school

[Anonymous No.16019099]

>>16018999
>their hearts were of fire, but they were cloaked in darkness, and terror went before them; they had whips of flame
What the description from the Silmarillion implies is that Balrogs didn't have distinct physical forms. This does not in any way affect the possibility of them having wings.

[Anonymous No.16019105]

>>16019084
>other is a metaphor
Says fucking who, you autistic sperg?

[Anonymous No.16019122]

>>16019105
if those were literal wings tolkien would compare the wings to a great shadow, not a great shadow to wings

[Anonymous No.16019484]

>>16019099
At the very best, your argument hinges on them not having physical wings and not just metaphorical "wings" that stretch out then. God you're so fucking retarded. Are Balrogs just ostrichs then? Have wings but are entirely useless and can't fly?

[Anonymous No.16019601]

I like to scratch my but and sniff my fingers, does that make me either a bad person or a great dwarf?

[Anonymous No.16019603]

>>16019484
>Are Balrogs just ostrichs then? Have wings but are entirely useless and can't fly?
I thought of them as more of penguins but that works too

[Anonymous No.16019659]

>>16019603
This is what happens when someone watches Jackson's trilogy before reading the books, and has the literacy of a small child.

[Anonymous No.16019732]

>>16019484
>Are Balrogs just ostriches then? Have wings but are entirely useless and can't fly?
If the wings were real and working then the Balrog would just fly to safety when Gandalf destroys the bridge.
I too interpreted it as Tolkien describing the shadow and not real wings. It's good writing though, we're supposed to think of the shadow as something wing-like belonging to and being controlled by the Balrog.

[Anonymous No.16019884]

why do wingfags even bother

[Anonymous No.16020147]

>>16019122
>if those were literal wings tolkien would compare the wings to a great shadow
Says fucking who, retard? He compared shadow to wings and then referred to literally "its wings".
>>16019484
No, it's your argument that at the very best hinges on them not having physical form and therefore having "their wings" only in a metaphorical sense, despite them being referred in the text literally as "its wings".
>fly
The fuck does it have to do with flying now? Put those goalposts where they were, dipshit.

[Anonymous No.16020208]

>>16020147
Jesus Christ, how can someone be so dense. Tolkien didn't want to repeat it, it very clearly says "LIKE two vast wings". You'd have to be an idiot to go through the rest of his works and think they had literal, physical wings.
>No, it's your argument that at the very best hinges on them not having physical form
When Gandalf and the Balrog hit the water, he describes it as a slimy creature and never mentions wings or anything. So it clearly has a physical form, and I never implied otherwise. Its wings are metaphorical you daft fuck.
>they have wings but they're entirely useless and have never been mentioned once in all the accounts we have of Balrogs
Why do you even bother. I'm sure it was Tolkiens intention to create spirit beings of fire that took physical form, only to give them entirely useless wings purely to make them cool lmao.

[Anonymous No.16020256]

>>16020208
>Tolkien didn't want to repeat it
Says fucking who, you drooling retard?
>When Gandalf and the Balrog hit the water, he describes it as a slimy creature and never mentions wings or anything
Because he already mentioned its wings before that.
>Why do you even bother
Why do you bother when the text of the book literally mentions "its wings"?
>I'm sure
What you are sure about is irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.16020320]

>>16020256
>Says fucking who, you drooling retard?
Says anyone who has a fucking brain. It'd be extremely thorny to refer to its either physical or metaphorical wings twice in full detail.
>Because he already mentioned its wings before that.
No, it mentions that it has two shadowy like things that reached out LIKE wings.
>Why do you bother when the text of the book literally mentions "its wings"?
Because you're ignoring the context? Unless you want me to believe that the Balrog had physical wings that stretched for upwards of a hundred feet from "wall to wall" despite Tolkien saying that the stature of a Balrog is twice that of an Elf?
>What you are sure about is irrelevant.
No it isn't, your argument is at best semantics based on a single passage and ignoring everything else in the legendarium. Tolkiens use of language is extremely consistent throughout, and his descriptors are always in detail. If Balrogs had physical wings we would have read about them.

[Anonymous No.16020322]

release my thread ye cunts of olde

[Anonymous No.16020772]

>>16020322
I blame that hack John Howe. Thanks to him the (wrongly) winged Balrog made it to the big screen.

[Anonymous No.16021050]

>>16020320
>Says anyone who has a fucking brain
And yet in reality the only one saying this is a drooling braindead sperg that I'm talking to right now.

[Anonymous No.16021063]

>>16020322
Lol.

[Anonymous No.16021070]

>>16021050
You have to be trolling. I refuse to believe that someone is unable to comprehend something so fucking simple.

[Anonymous No.16021671]

>>16021070
The book literally says "its wings" and autistic retards like you are still sperging out trying to sell their own wishful thinking as the legit interpretation of it. No, you have to be trolling.

[Anonymous No.16021777]

>>16021671
I'm actually blown away that you cant see the fact that he previously described his shadow LIKE vast wings, and are ignoring how wide the bridge passage is. So are his wings 100 feet plus, while his body is twice that of an elf? Fuck off you autistic schizo.

[Anonymous No.16021988]

>>16021777
>he previously described his shadow LIKE vast wings
He first describes shadow metaphorically comparing it to wing, then he literally refers to the wings of the thing. I get that you genuinely believe that if you try really-really hard to ignore the fact that the book refers to "its wings" it will magically go away and everybody would just agree to your fairy-tale world where "like wings" and "its wings" refer to the same thing, but reality is just not the way you want it to be. The book literally says "its wings" and there's no going around it.
>I'm actually blown away
More like blown the fuck out.

[Anonymous No.16022255]

>>16021988
A FUCKING METAPHOR DOESN'T NEED TO USE THE WORLD "LIKE" THAT WHAT MAKES IT DIFFERENT FROM A SIMPLE COMPARISON YOU NIGGER. AND FUCK JANNIES TOO

[Anonymous No.16022259]

>>16022255
my friend...youve never heard of a simile ?

[Anonymous No.16022446]

>>16022259
not until today

[Anonymous No.16022514]

t. eslfag

[Anonymous No.16023975]

>>16020322
checked

[Anonymous No.16023984]

>>16014226
Time Stands Still

[Anonymous No.16023989]

>>16000185
Heh finns are pretty hardcore nationalists too. They hate people from across any of the thousands of lakes theyve got. All down to pure blood.
Also, tolkien is straight boring. Subjective opinion maybe, but my god, dull as dishwater.

[Anonymous No.16024385]

>>16022255
And yet in the text it is referred to with "like". While the actual wings of the creature are referred to as "its wings". See, the thing is you may scream as much as you like but it won't ever make the "its wings" part go away. The Balrog had wings, deal with it, autistic sperg.

[Anonymous No.16024546]

>>16020256
>>16020320
>these retarded robotic interactions where you respond to every like in the post
you need to be shot in the fucking head