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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 207 KB, 435x557, Santi_di_Tito_-_Niccolo_Machiavelli's_portrait_headcrop.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15969204 No.15969204 [Reply] [Original]

>Theories on warfare get proven wrong after disasterous defeat
>ousted from diplomatic position
>write edgy political book LARPing as an advisor to a tyrsnt
>fail to get Lorenzo Medici to give you a new job
>get banned from Florence
>hated for the next 400 years
>only political hacks and self-help grifters like you

Why do people pretend this guy was a mastermind or a serious thinker?

>> No.15969209

The Prince wasn’t written as advice

The Prince was a satire

>> No.15969234

Cesare Borgia was a real life case of his political philosophy successfully working in practice. Borgia is now the image of Christ in everyone's head.

>> No.15969246
File: 39 KB, 634x790, jigsaw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15969246

>>15969209

>> No.15969257

>>15969234
The popular image of Christ existed long before him.
Medici Florence was drowning in dept from usury and constant war expenditures.

>> No.15969270

>>15969257
The modern popular image stems from Borgia's replacement.

>> No.15969287

>>15969270
No it doesn't. There's no proof of this outside of a few superficial similarities.

>> No.15969335
File: 50 KB, 500x380, Cheezus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15969335

>>15969287
Dumas made the claim. It seems too random of a claim to have been completely false. There has to be merit to it.

>> No.15969343

>>15969335
They both have beards. That's it. It has never been documented or proven. And it certainly isn't proof that the Borgias paid any mind to Machiavelli.

>> No.15969376

>>15969343
Older depictions had him darker-haired and more Middle Eastern, so if Borgia himself didn't play a role, Europe as a whole did. But again, the claim seems too random to find zero plausibility about it.

>And it certainly isn't proof that the Borgias paid any mind to Machiavelli.
That wasn't my point. Machiavelli refers to Cesare in The Prince.

>> No.15969424

>writes a whole book full of obvious truths
>still manages to make more sense than anyone else
That's the genius for you.

>> No.15969464

>>15969424
>obvious truths
He legitimized ruinious political ideas that have had nothing but painful consequences for the west.

>> No.15969518

>>15969464
He just showed the world of politics as it is instead of engaging in wishful thinking or otherworldly speculations.

>> No.15969549

>>15969518
No he didn't. He actively encouraged underhanded politics and the revovsl if virtue from civics.

>> No.15969603

>>15969549
It's like saying "war is a dangerous affair and people kill each other when at war" is killing encouragement. Well, in a sense it is: if you go to the war, be ready to shoot.

>> No.15969666

>>15969603
Typical brainlet response from someone who only knows about politics from movies.

>> No.15969702

>>15969666
Sorry, o Satan, I bet that your job gives you a lot of insight about politics.

>> No.15969710

>>15969204
Are his commentaries on Livy any good?

>> No.15969920

>>15969666

Yeah I'll bet all of those two-faced U.S. politicians literally and openly pulling from Machiavellii's playbook are feeling the heat of your rhetoric. Guess they just watched movies.

>> No.15969985

>>15969376
What the fuck does "too random" even mean. Coincidence cant happen? What does more middle eastern even mean when discussing mosaic and cartoonish manuscript doodles?

>> No.15970011
File: 241 KB, 1200x582, JC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15970011

>>15969985
You don't think the depiction has been made more European over time? And it's random because, why him? Not to mention, being the basis of The Prince, it would make sense.

>> No.15970024

>>15969920
And is the world a better place because of it? Has following Machiavelli done anything to improve politics?

>> No.15970055

>>15970024
Politics who will disagree with the obvious will simply not achieve anything in politics, so they will not influence the world.

>> No.15970095

>>15970055
Answer the question, faggot.

>> No.15970112

>>15970095
Is the world a hotter place because of your thermometer? I doubt it.

>> No.15970306

>>15970112
He he's advocating for underhanded techniques, you absolute retard.

>> No.15970317

>>15970306
He isn't telling anything new or anything that bad to any important leader. If anything, his books are milder than reality. So he does not make the world any worse in this respect. But he is very important for us common people because it allows us to have a glance at the methods serious people use (and maybe prepare for some consequences). So having his writings makes the world better for us.

>> No.15970324

>>15970011
what's up with that evil eye

>> No.15970348

>>15970317
He was legitimizing the decedance of Florence by telling politicians to ignore ethical concerns. It was an objective bad turn in political thought.

>> No.15970361

"A prince must nevertheless make himself feared in such a way that he will avoid hatred, even if he does not acquire love; since one can very easily be feared and yet not hated. This will always be the case when he abstains from the property of his citizens and subjects, and from their women. If he must spill someone’s blood, he should do this when there is proper justification and manifest cause. But above all else, he should abstain from seizing the property of others. (Ch XVII)"
His advice is never less than balanced and reasonable
But retards will always get filtered

>> No.15970369
File: 306 KB, 1048x1584, c.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15970369

>>15969209
>The Prince was a satire

>> No.15970381

>>15970361
>But above all else, he should abstain from seizing the property of others
brainlet capitalist

>> No.15970393

>>15970381
So you'd let the govt take all your property?
Cuck

>> No.15970394

>>15970361
He advocated for constant war to maintain power. He sounds like a neo liberal.

>> No.15970401

>>15970381
Clever Italian in one simple phrase showed why all the socialistic utopias will necessarily fail.

>> No.15970415

>>15970393
I want to seize property of others lol

>> No.15970428

>>15970394
Got quote?

>> No.15970477

>>15970415
You're not a politician. Materialistic pursuits are for the masses.