/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15958635]

Just got this, What am I in for lads?

[Anonymous No.15958678]

>>15958635

Constant citation of classical writers you're expected to be familiar with.

[Anonymous No.15958690]

Bump
Was thinking about getting this after reading Bloom and GR, and I'd also like to know

[Anonymous No.15958693]

>>15958635
>What am I in for lads?
Giambattista Vico - The New Science, Translated and Edited by Jason Taylor and Robert Miner, With an Introduction by Giuseppe Marzotta

[Anonymous No.15958746]

I heard good things about it but forgot what it is about. What's it about?

[Anonymous No.15958788]

>>15958746
Giambattista Vico's New Science

[Anonymous No.15958851]

>>15958788
you're so funny now kys

[Anonymous No.15958962]

>>15958851
Done.

[Anonymous No.15959231]

Only ever read some fragments of this in my "philosophy of history" classes, but expect some Herder-level anti-modernism.

Also his main thesis in this book: we can only truly know what we have created ourselves, so don't look to nature which was made by God but to culture (thereby making humankind's lack of knowledge its prime power)

[Anonymous No.15959261]

>>15959231
>Also his main thesis in this book: we can only truly know what we have created ourselves, so don't look to nature which was made by God but to culture
I find thesis repulsive, even if the premise is true.

[Anonymous No.15959279]

>>15959261
Why? Take the Christpill faggot

[Anonymous No.15959318]

>>15959279
Make me. I'd rather not understand nature then understand Christpill.

[Anonymous No.15959328]

>>15959318
That makes you a barbarian in spirit

[Anonymous No.15959339]

>>15959328
You say that like it's a bad thing, I'll wear it with pride.

[Anonymous No.15959391]

>>15958635
Dry but interesting

I'm halfway through it, a lot of references to ancient philosophers and civilizations nobody has ever heard of but I feel like he gives you enough context of them to get what he's saying

Also makes you realize Evola/Spengler/Hegel were hacks who just ripped him off

[Anonymous No.15959421]

>>15959391
>Also makes you realize Evola/Spengler/Hegel were hacks who just ripped him off
So you keep saying every time Vico is mentioned here but they have unique ideas that did not come from Vico

[Anonymous No.15959494]

>>15959391
Your so fucking stupid. It’s philosophy, not fiction. If it’s true it should be copied by other philosophers not discouraged.
Being “original” doesn’t mean shit if it means wrong in new ways.
>hurr durr plagiarism tee hee!
They’re truth seekers and teachers of wisdom, not musicians or screenwriters. By your metric, every modern evolutionary biologist is a plagiarist hack who just copied Darwin.

[Anonymous No.15960029]

>>15959391
I don't think you know how philosophy works. It's a long conversation with those that came before.

[Anonymous No.15960526]

>>15959494
>>15960029
yeah no shit the problem is all of those cocksucking hacks never reference Vico even once in their works, they act like they compiled all of human history themselves and gave their takes on it

obviously pseud posting faggots haven't read any of these people so you don't even know this

>>15959421
Yes they have a few novel takes on top of all of Vico's work

[Anonymous No.15960565]

>>15959391
>>15960526
why have you been obsessively vicoposting so much? give us a proper argumentation for reading Vico over Spengler et al. or shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.15960606]

>>15960565
>give us a proper argumentation for reading Vico over Spengler et al. or shut the fuck up
I don't give a fuck if you read vico or spengler

It's just my opinion that these "metaphysics of history" guys got like 70% of their ideas from Vico without crediting him. That's all

[Anonymous No.15960655]

>>15960606
If they got most of their ideas, which I appreciate, from Vico, reading Vico must be worthwhile. so more concretely, I'm asking you to elaborate a little on Vico's ideas and put them in perspective with those of "these guys"

[Anonymous No.15961381]

>>15958635
I got it last weekend! We should have areading club

[Anonymous No.15962349]

>>15960526
Maybe Vico was an essential part of high education back then so it didn’t need to be referenced, that it’s just assumed everyone has his book in their background. Plus, it’s also possible that they were influenced by Vico indirectly, through another source. You don’t fucking know and just want to start arguments like a testy bitch wife who wants her husband to pay attention to and/or fuck her so she tries to get on his nerves when he’s trying to do something more productive. Kys

[Anonymous No.15962372]

>>15959494
>>15960029
Retards detected.

[Anonymous No.15962385]

>>15962349
>Maybe Vico was an essential part of high education back then so it didn’t need to be referenced
Jesus fucking Christ.

[Anonymous No.15962832]

>>15961381
>!
No thanks

[Anonymous No.15963019]

>>15960655
He can't.
Everyone on /lit/ says "fuck x, they copied x, and x is the best" and then leaves the thread and repeats.
If you press these people on anything and try to get them to elaborate then they won't respond, as we see with this guy who harps on about how everyone plagiarised Vico without even mentioning one of his ideas.

[Anonymous No.15963123]

>>15963019
>Everyone on /lit/
listen to what you have become

[Anonymous No.15963196]

>>15958746
Mytho-Poetics. Georges Sorel's talk of myth was his application of Vico to the politics of the early 20th century.

[Anonymous No.15963252]

>>15958635
>What am I in for lads?
Understanding the centrality and power of poetic wisdom and poetic thinking in the creation and evolution of nations:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/vico/#NewScie

[Anonymous No.15963274]

>>15959421
Vico developed, very early, a stagist and evolutionary theory of national development determined by the logical development of man from hero-poetic to reflective-philosophical. See Stanford:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/vico/#NewScie

[Anonymous No.15963325]

>>15960565
Vico offers a grand system of historicism detemined by logical development of mind like Hegel that feels more grounded in human experinecn. In particular Vico expounds and centralises the power of myth and poetics in national development and as a process within man.

In modern politics, Vico is the dominant influence on Sorel's centrality of myth as motivator of men, which from him would go on to influence almost all 20th century politics.

Vico can explain why myth and poetic wisdom is so powerful and important to nations and men. This has implications to everything from propaganda, politics and marketing, to literary criticism and story crafting.

[Anonymous No.15963332]

Is he Catholic?

[Anonymous No.15963351]

My understsnding is that the Begin and Fisch translation is the best English version and based on the third and final edition Vico published (he added and changed a lot between editions).

[Anonymous No.15963375]

>>15963332
Yes. He's so early it's prior to any geological discoveries and his thesis is based upon a young earth biblical cosmology. Vico is writing about the evolution of gentile nations after the deluge, his theory of human evolution is how gentiles developed nations, myths, and poetic wisdom after running around the universal forest post-flood. He assumes that the Jews are guided by a different and direct means of divine providence and does not mythologise Christianity or Judaism, whilst providing a powerful tool for describing the evolution of Greco-Roman myth and history that a modern reader would turn back onto Judaism/Christianity too.

[Anonymous No.15963483]

>>15963375
not bad, I always assumed Vico was a secular humanist guy

[Anonymous No.15963967]

>>15962832
Exclamation marks are fun! You are a faggot!

[Anonymous No.15964189]

>>15963325
>>15963375
thanks for posting

[Anonymous No.15964203]

>>15963123
Are you new?
Most of /lit/ have a rudimentary understanding of what they talk about.

[Anonymous No.15964327]

>>15963123
Kek
>>15963019
Yeah you gotta go outside

[Anonymous No.15964450]

Is this gonna be /lit/s next process and reality?

[Anonymous No.15964884]

>>15964450
Inshalllah. Vico is of more practical consequence. Writers should read him to understand how to worldbuild by imitation of how Vico describes the Greco-Romans as building their own mytho-world through poetic wisdom. Sorel understood this, you need to give people myths.

[Anonymous No.15964972]

What is poetic wisdom? A good example is poetic-physics. The reason why your voice echos when you shout in a canyon is because the nymph Echo is repeating your words as she did for her unrequited love Narcissus, not the physics of vibrations reflecting off rocks.

Think of any field of knowledge and prefix it with poetic-. Poetic-X is how the human mind in it's normal state represents and understands the world, man has a pre-rational pre-Kantian mind that the rational-Kantian mind builds on and makes excursions to. But the poetic mind is always there and almost always the more powerful synthesizer of sense data and producer of ideas.

Vico's New Science is a study of this poetic wisdom

[Anonymous No.15964997]

>>15964972
If you've never heard of echo, you'd never speak of that explanation. Same as, if you never heard the physical explanation, you'll never speak of it. Your mind looks for an explanation - and it will latch to the first one offered. If none is offered, it will think of one, preferably connected to the rest of his belief system - which is your mythology if there is no rational explanation.

[Anonymous No.15965040]

What would Vico have thought of Wagner?

[Anonymous No.15965297]

>>15964997
>If you've never heard of echo, you'd never speak of that explanation
No, you'd come up with your own poetic version, as every culture does with echos. That's the point. Poetic wisdom creates/reifies the world in mythological terms.

A contemporary example is Trump being Voldemort and every resistance drone being whatever the Harry Potter good guy team was (Dumbledores army). Poetic wisdom is a mode of thinking, of interpretation and creation.

Hitler is the mytho-poetic big bad and the Left/liberals think of themselves in their own poetic-vision as resistance fighters of WW2 Europe.