The Psychology Behnid "Modern Music": Indoctrination?

[Anonymous No.15915623]

I'm entertaining the idea that music in the modern society is used as a method of indoctrination for the benefit of the capitalist elite. See this quote by Edward Bernays, founder of modern "public relations" and Freud's nephew:
>The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.

I think the idea is plausible that at least music could be used to this end. I'm formulating the hypothesis within the Jungian framework, though I'm sure it could be applied to other frameworks as well. The purely musical part of a song would serve to excite the subject and bring to the foreground the primitive instinctual part of the mind, i.e., the unconscious. Since the unconscious is the source of our instincts and since we are primarily lead by our instincts, the mind is now in a vulnerable state to be indoctrinated.

The lyrics of the song would then carry out this task of speaking, so to speak, directly to the unconscious. This is all the more effective since we are for the most part not attentive of the lyrics, and since many people would listen to popular songs on repeat, or at least more than a few times. The lyrics of popular songs also seem to be concerned with sex and relationships and romance, which have changed considerably within the last few decades, helping individuals becoming better economic units (e.g., career over family, casual sex in place of intense romance, etc.). Others still seem to be about power wealth and greed, which goes without saying how these are essential motivations in a capitalist society.

If we consider that mainstream is safeguarded by "elite" production companies that aren't exactly known as role models of ethical behavior, I think the theory would gain more plausibility. Although I'm sure it's not original and at best half-baked, I'd like to read your thoughts on it.

[Anonymous No.15915650]

>>15915623
literally and unironically jewish subversion

[Anonymous No.15915659]

>>15915623
Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon: Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops & the Dark Heart of the Hippy Dream

[Anonymous No.15915710]

>>15915650
This, ironically Adorno (a jew) is one of the best at describing how it works

You systematically and systemically lower standards until you identify the simplest possible clusters of desire-satisfaction routines and then you experiment with maximizing those routines until you perfect them as an infinitely renewable product. No more innovation necessary, just push the jewish scrambler button and it will auto-generate a new tune guaranteed to stimulate proles' retarded brains just enough to numb them to their own assrape for another 2 months.

Do the same with all other media too, do it with real life as well by turning real life into a tapestry woven out of drama between hand-crafted celebrities/"influencers" (influencers are second-wave celebrities).

Perfect the methods for identifying latently talented people among the retarded population, who naturally desire to be a celebrity/influencer themselves, and "uplifting" them into celeb status (while also making them think they achieved it themselves through talent even though a swarm of producers, agents, makeup artists, and style consultants descends up on them every hour to make sure they are properly puppeteerable).

Adorno doesn't even just say that things like melodies will become simpler, IDEAS will become simpler as well. People from 100 years ago could think more complexly about something like "revolution" than you can, because their media had more complex depictions of revolution, with more complex parts and wholes, more conceptually sophisticated and with more relations to actual historical instances of revolution. Now you have a whole populatio of people who think Harry Potter is Tolstoy.

We're being programmed down to slave levels. Again it's not that they are impoverishing the commodities, so that we can only express ourselves as retards. They are impoverishing US in the process, creating perma-retards. Every industry and institution is interwoven with one another and is half-consciously, half-unconsciously (through inertia and natural logics of capitalism) designed to do this to the average person now

Look at the Powell memorandum too

[Anonymous No.15915728]

>what is art

[Anonymous No.15915733]

>>15915623
this is why Platon (pbuh) wanted to abolish music from the Republic. Too many soft brained people get tricked into being degenerates like rap keeping the nigger community down by glorifying drugs and promiscuity, leaving behind single mothers with sons selling crack.

[Anonymous No.15915751]

>>15915710
Adorno actually wrote all the songs for the Beatles, or so I've heard.

The Beatles were just a front to help bring about a culture shift, no one wanted to listen to an old Jew sing Beatles songs.

[Anonymous No.15915754]

>>15915710
HOLY FUCKING BASED

[Anonymous No.15915790]

>>15915751
>Adorno actually wrote all the songs for the Beatles, or so I've heard.
I'm a member of the Illuminati and I'm going to have to contest that claim

[Anonymous No.15915795]

>>15915710
I think its worse than that because there will be a segment of the population who is woke to this issue and we are sort of forced to participate in it being born into it.
Its literally like being in the matrix except theres no morpheus and everyone is a retarded slave except for the random people I interact with on the internet who enlighten me and post valid information but I never find anyone in real life who ever shares my views to the same extent or they are pure psychopaths who know exactly whats going on and revel in it. Even worse they use their power to attack me because they know i disrupt their power system.

From what I see there is a massive intelligence gap where those in power and their underlings have key knowledge that other people dont have and even if you are a born pleb or lower class and figure this shit out its likely you wont have the resources or influence to enact any change.

A big example of this is the 440hz vs 432 hz music conspiracy.

[Anonymous No.15915825]

>>15915710
become an agent for talent? make money
repeat

[Anonymous No.15915871]

>>15915710
OP here. Thanks for the in depth post. Could you recommend some books by Adorno both on this topic and in general? I've been avoiding him since I don't really like skeptic anti-foundationalist philosophy, but if he has written other books like this I'd gladly read them.

[Anonymous No.15915879]

>>15915795
Look man, for the next 10 years, you shouldn't be expecting to see any lights at the end of tunnel.

Things are bad and they're going to get worse.
I don't know if you're a Christian but I suggest you get right with God and read the bible.
Empire rises, empire falls.
Things are going to be difficult and you'll make it a lot easier on yourself if you focus on becoming self-sufficient in as many things as you can.
Start with the basics, purifying water, field dressing and cooking food, as well as growing food and building a shelter.

Your best bet will be going full blown Walden, if you can afford property in the woods.
But whatever you do, if you want to survive - get out of the big cities.

[Anonymous No.15915911]

>>15915623
>instinctual part of the mind, i.e., the unconscious
source? is that an assumption on your part?

indeed, instincts influence the subconscious, but they are not itself the subconscious. cannot instincts directly influence our conscience too without the subconscious acting intermediary?

[Anonymous No.15915989]

>>15915911
As I said, I am formulating the hypothesis within the Jungian framework. Direct quotes from his paper Instinct and the Unconscious:
>The collective unconscious consists of the sum of the instincts and their correlates the archetypes.
>... Precisely because an unconscious process is released in him that runs its course without the aid of reason and therefore falls short of, or exceeds, the degree of rational motivation. This phenomenon is so uniform and so regular that we can only call it instinctive

[Anonymous No.15916196]

literary musical bump

[Anonymous No.15916201]

ok now tell me about jazz

[Anonymous No.15917285]

bump

[Anonymous No.15917566]

>>15915710
Add to this the fact that modern pop music is just covert money laundering. Has anyone ever seen how many people are credited with writing credits on any given pop song? Or why certain songs and samples are used over and over?
>>15915795
What does 432hz have to do with all this?
>>15915733
Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I'm pretty sure Plato didn't want to completely abolish music. But he did want the youth to be educated properly in it so they wouldn't fall prey to immoral music's ill-effects

[Anonymous No.15917807]

>>15915623
degenerate, you have freedom to chose poison you cure yourself with. but you don't have freedom to chose music in movies. movies are primary source of indoctrination, movies and cartoons tell people, children what is good and what is bad, and good is of course vegetable pathetic mommy, and government.

[Anonymous No.15917844]

>>15915659
This but also programmed to kill

[Anonymous No.15917902]

Vico's New Science makes the point that song exists prior to language (think animal/chimpanzee mating and alarm calls) and acts on a different and more primal area of our minds despite being both song and speech being comprised of words.

Song and music acts on our minds in a more direct and primal way as an ancient evolutionary inheritance from the mating, alarm, and other social animal calls prior to the development of language.

[Anonymous No.15917911]

Indoctrination is a meaningless word

[Anonymous No.15917917]

>>15915710
Thanks for posting Anon.

[Anonymous No.15917926]

>>15915710
Cope

[Anonymous No.15918304]

>>15915623
https://youtube.com/watch?v=eYua80VEcBk

[Anonymous No.15918316]

>>15915871
The Culture Industry is the book anon is referring to.

[Anonymous No.15919767]

>>15917926
Hello jew

[Anonymous No.15919782]

>>15919767
hello Borat

[Anonymous No.15920105]

>>15915795
>A big example of this is the 440hz vs 432 hz music conspiracy.

Dude, I was willing to care about what you had to say until this.

[Anonymous No.15920114]

>>15915623
you got it all wrong. the people in charge of music are just as stupid as you are. they want the quickest route to pleasure/money and this is the result of that. there is no grand conspiracy, if you think there is then >>>/pol/ may be where you belong

[Anonymous No.15920123]

>>15919782
LOL

[Anonymous No.15920385]

>>15915710
Best post in a while here, screencapped. Thank you for sharing it brother.

[Anonymous No.15920423]

>>15915710
an anon so based he should be in jail

[Anonymous No.15920477]

>>15915623
music festivals exist primarily to launder money. make of this what you will.

[Anonymous No.15920482]

>>15915795
The way out is, at least to me, found in homesteading. Try to achieve the highest degree of independence from the system. It's sad but this is where we're at. Most people are forgotten for a reason.

[Anonymous No.15920492]

>>15915879
interesting i'm >>15920482
and you seem to have reached the same conclusion I did, I'm already 80% there, give it a year and I'm off the grid entirely. Did you write >>15915710
?

[Anonymous No.15920493]

>>15920385
The absolute state of this board

[Anonymous No.15920503]

>>15919767
You're the one citing Marxist analysis fag

[Anonymous No.15920505]

>>15915623
>plant experiments with classical vs metal
>resonant frequency of gothic cathedrals and brainwave states of audience listening to music therein
>entrainment: priming for suggestible/irratible states with EMFs (shopping mall and ad music)
This >>15915710 more or less. Profaning the narrative language structuring reality to bare bones.
>Adorno doesn't even just say that things like melodies will become simpler, IDEAS will become simpler as well.
>Now you have a whole population of people who think Harry Potter is Tolstoy.
Historical and cultural literacy is beyond the bounds of the system/Cathedral ect. Retards and talking heads can shout down anything and anyone when the peanut gallery's acknowledgement of themselves as holistic chattle (ego injury, narcissism) is demanded by truth claims with weight behind them.

>>15920105
>440hz vs 432 hz music conspiracy.
440 is aesthetically inferior as a temprament, and the symatic impressions on your largely water vessel bodily form are negative vs 432's; the 'ze Germans djinning up agitated populace' hypothesis is overstated -- that much is correct.

[Anonymous No.15920515]

>>15915710
good post, there should be more marxist analysis on /lit/

[Anonymous No.15920572]

>>15920493
I know, right?
Stop acting like a retarded demon and you may be loved.

[Anonymous No.15921644]

>>15920505
Unironically watch Adam Kneely

[Anonymous No.15922053]

You guys should read Harold Innis, McLuhan, Baudrillard

[Anonymous No.15923332]

>>15915710
SO RECOMMEND THE ACCORDING ADORNO BOOKS YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE

[Anonymous No.15923618]

So what kind of music am I allowed to listen, if I were to take those claims seriously? Only not to pop and rap? Only classical music? Metal?

[Anonymous No.15923686]

>>15923618
Mongolian throat singing is the only /lit/ approved genre

[Anonymous No.15923748]

>>15923618
Classical is the patrician choice but any music without lyrics would probably be safe.

[Anonymous No.15923775]

Theres already copious amounts of data that suggest the music you listen to directly develops much of your worldview and personality. Repetitive songs saying "muh dik" will clearly lower a person to a more base level. The fact that people blast that shit in their ears all day only makes it worse.

[Anonymous No.15924121]

> Listening to ANY "music" composed after the death of Ludwig van Beethoven
Excuse me but wtf is wrong with you???

[Anonymous No.15924162]

>>15924121
You Sir, are a gentleman of aristocrat spirit with a patrician soul; and let me say, before this mushroom, this Eukaryote fungulian looks hella taste m8!

[Anonymous No.15924188]

>>15924162

It is a most wonderful opportinity to post in the company of such fellow-minded individuals, or, dare I say, true aristrocrats of the soul! Very much appreciated.

As for the mushroom, I believe it is of the bolet (you will excuse if this word does not refer to any specific idea in the anglo mind, as my fungi-lore is constrained to the french language) type -- and one of exceptional size. A truly remarquable specimen!

When it comes to the doggo, I remain clueless; perhaps one of those rare Chienhuaha I keep hearing about?

Have a wonderful night!

[Anonymous No.15924218]

>>15924121
I prefer metal though.

[Anonymous No.15924237]

>>15915623
the easiest thing to look at is rap/hiphop. its also totally researchable too. its a fact. they intentionally glorify degenerate behavior to keep them acting like slobs. good music with better messages DO get made, but they arent put on the radio so much. good bands are pushed out of the limelight. they might get support and be published and sell out shows because money is money, but they're generally kept off of radio and main publicity.

[Anonymous No.15924254]

>>15924218
"Metal"? What does mere matter as to with an abstract composition, such as music? Please sir, remain under the same genus!

Have a nice evening!

[Anonymous No.15924275]

>>15923775
post it

[Anonymous No.15924276]

>>15924237
i have several experiences of talking to "ethnomusicologists" claiming that the most degenerate gangster rap is good and it's racist to criticize it at all, always rich white kids whose whole existence is curated by their parents.

some white faggot with a man bun and homo moustache telling me i'm the racist for saying maybe black kids in impoverished neighbourhoods could do with something other than an echo chamber glorifying violence, drugs, and rape.

[Anonymous No.15924278]

>>15924254
You will forgive my blatant misuse of the word "as"; at this very place, "has" should have been written. English is not, as is probably obvious to you, not my mother's tongue.

Good evening nonetheless!

[Anonymous No.15924282]

>>15923775
I've thought about this. It could be a reason why rock is dead. Since they all got into the kill myself depressed mode. Maybe that was a psyop to get whites to kill themselves, and soften you up.

[Anonymous No.15924303]

>>15915623
OP, you're doing God's work. Make sure you consult the work of Jacques Ellul (Propaganda) and Walter Lippmann (Public Opinion) for a more complete development of the idea of propaganda. You're on the right track, and, if you play your cards right, will be able to produce something wonderful.

[Anonymous No.15924325]

>>15924254
>>15924278
epic bread fellow plebbitors pls accept these upboat points

[Anonymous No.15924337]

>>15923618

Nick Cave

[Anonymous No.15924340]

>>15924188
In which ways does this "chienhuhua", like you just denominated, this little creature, invokes a reason to not begone from the scenery of the "alentour"- vous voyez mon chèr ami moi aussi je suis tenu éduqué des dires souverains du François si joui- from the presence of this fungy?

Is he related to this mushroom? I highly suppect and expect a negative!

Is he one of does intrepid fungal hunter that Tolkien hinted us: that the race of Gandalf uses? I couldn't hope of having the slightest of reason to hope he was.

And or else
Behold this traveller and dweller of forestry world welcomes the searchers of them world to their finest art and craft hidden and waiting to spring forth into thy domain.

[Anonymous No.15924393]

>>15923618
you only need Faure

[Anonymous No.15924397]

>>15924254
>>15924278
I concur in agreeing in likes of music being melodic and composed in an order of some blatant or some so less in might seem.

[OP No.15924432]

>>15917902
Exactly my points, only that now it is being used consciously. Thanks, I'll check out the book.
>>15920505
>>plant experiments with classical vs metal
>>resonant frequency of gothic cathedrals and brainwave states of audience listening to music therein
I don't understand what these refer to but they seem very relevant. Could you explain more?
>>15922053
Any particular books?
>>15923332
See: >>15918316
>>15923775
I'm glad that research also seems to support the theory. Could you cite some of those studies?
>>15924237
Rap is indeed the most obvious example and very obviously pushed on the people. The issue exactly is the gatekeepers of music. Same has happened to other medias as well; In literature books with a certain agenda mostly get published, news sources get to decide which story and from which angle people get to hear about, etc. This pre-selection is what is problematic here.
>>15924303
Anon I'm very glad you liked it, thank you. I'll certainly look into those books.

[Anonymous No.15924445]

Motion pictures appear to play a key role in this too.

[Anonymous No.15924513]

>>15920114
retard

[Anonymous No.15924535]

>Antonio Gramsci (1891-1937), a founding member of the Italian Communist Party condemned Negro music in one of his letters. He wrote in 1928:

>“If there is a danger, it is rather in the music and dance imported into Europe by the Negroes. This music really conquered a whole fringe of the population of Europe, it even created a real fanaticism. How can one imagine that the continual repetition of the physical gestures that negroes make while dancing around their fetishes, or is it that always listening to the syncopated rhythm of jazz bands, remains without consequences.

>(a) It is an enormously diffuse phenomenon, affecting millions of young people.

>(b) They are very energetic and violent, leaving deep and lasting impressions.

>(c) It appeals to the Paleocortex (the reptilian brain), making people primitive.”

>Gramsci concludes by saying that the Westerner is “becoming a nigger, without realizing it.”

[Anonymous No.15924591]

>>15924445
delet

[Anonymous No.15924726]

Good topic. The Adam Curtis documentary series Century of the Self gives a nice background of Bernays' involvements in popular culture in the 20th century. It's staggering and a bit depressing how much of what you think is actually just a result of what someone else wanted you to think. There's a bit in the adam curtis doc where Betty Crocker was trying to sell cake mix to housewives. The housewives perceived it as feeling wrong because it was too easy to make. So Bernays came up with the idea to add an extra step of cracking an egg into the mixture. Sales went up immediately

[Anonymous No.15924837]

Look at this man, a case study of what happens when you listen to too much music. He lost his hair, lost his mind, lost his libido, lost his empathy, lost his soul.
He's vegan, lost his willingness to enjoy the flesh of slaughtered animals.
He forgot his name, coming with a new name every new video. Already suffering the result of musically induced alzheimers. Even his most loyal followers are showing the same symptoms, scroll down to the comment section and you see people referencing things that clearly have not taken place.
Sad.

[Anonymous No.15924868]

>>15915659
Jay Dyer has two books all about this. Haven't read him but I listen to his show from time to time and seemingly, he does not miss

[Anonymous No.15924878]

>>15915710
damn bro i guess we really do live in a society afterall

[Anonymous No.15924893]

>>15924837
You also forgot to mention hes with a nigger wife.

[Anonymous No.15925213]

>>15924893
Sorry I listed too much music

[Anonymous No.15925487]

>>15923775
this is why true rock chads only listen to Rush and other 70s prog bands

[Anonymous No.15925939]

>>15915710
You left out peer pressure, popularity and sense of belonging, a lot of people listen to popular music because everyone around them does it, try would do it too because they don't want to feel out of place.

>>15917926
>ugga bugga is just music is not that deep bro

[Anonymous No.15926038]

[Anonymous No.15926581]

>>15915710
stop pretending than the average pleb wasn't anything greater than literally retarded
destroying the church was a mistake

[Anonymous No.15926733]

>>15920114
When Ive seen the lengths people go to get better at something like chess or a video game in order to beat an opponent and climb the rankings, you sit here and tell me you scum, that the world as a whole is just left to its own devices and there isn't control and domination being sought and already achieved on the grand scale of life and death itself then you are a deluded piece of scum.

[Anonymous No.15926753]

>>15915623
Roger Scruton has written about this. He has a talk on YouTube called "the Tyranny of Pop Music" which is about changing modes of music production and consumption, it's use as background noise in public spaces (the "constant great din"), and it's transformation from being primarily a social activity to primarily a private/personal activity.

[Anonymous No.15927503]

>>15920114
based retard

[Anonymous No.15927630]

>>15923618
Infected Mushroom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SvqMyhESzY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBQRDqtm0fc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udM1wOuEtoU
>"Infected Mushroom is an Israeli musical duo formed in Haifa in 1996 by producers Erez Eisen and Amit Duvdevani."

[Anonymous No.15927649]

>>15926038
quick rundown?

[Anonymous No.15927675]

>>15924868
Jay Dyer is pretty based, he reads a lot of good books

[Anonymous No.15927728]

It's just mindless white noise for the most part


...pun intended

[Anonymous No.15927832]

>>15915879
lol
im actually scared that you come to the same conclusion as i do.

currently working on a garden that can sustain myself and my family but i propably wont be able to move so far away from any city that i wont get involved in the kind of civil unrest that will eventually enroll....

god bless all anons that share this foresight of the coming flood and prepare.

[Anonymous No.15928434]

>>15924218
>TFW no qt eldritch sink loli to tear my face off
Why even live?

[Anonymous No.15929358]

>10 year old niece has a billie eillish poster on her wall and posts herself dancing on tiktok
how the fuck do i stop her

[Anonymous No.15930736]

>>15923618
Classical is great, regular instrumental is good, and I'd think a solid amount of metal would be good, depending on what subgenre and band.

[Anonymous No.15930748]

>>15923618
Exclusively classical and Touhou remixes

[Anonymous No.15931046]

>>15920477
Nigga what? Are you retarded? What are you saying?

[Anonymous No.15931077]

>>15924893
>>15924837
Seethe and cope.

[Anonymous No.15931094]

>>15929358
She's just a kid dude, she'll turn out fine. Think back on whatever dumb shit you were into at 10

[Anonymous No.15931102]

>>15927832
Nick Griffin has switched to this view after years of being a political organizer. He calls it the "long war."

https://youtube.com/watch?v=nBXE39MkZx4

[Anonymous No.15931115]

>>15931094
Please never have a daughter, the world has enough twerking degenerates with HPV and SSReyes.

[Anonymous No.15931121]

>>15915623
How does the musical aspect of a popular song "excite the unconscious?" And why is someone like you immune to it?

[Anonymous No.15931692]

>>15923748
on that note, why did adorno hated jazz? lack of standarization? jazz is just very difficult to standardize, so maybe?

[Anonymous No.15931728]

>>15931692
If you read him you would understand. He saw it as a product of the culture industry. That is to say, only a "product." But also, the jazz he wrote about was basically all Mickey Mouse-sounding shit: Dixieland knockoffs, hot and sweet jazz, possibly cool jazz and early bebop. He wrote about it before the style developed in an interesting way

[Anonymous No.15931746]

>>15931728
thats what i vaguely thought, except that my little sin is that i still like early bebop, and cool jazz when im drunk. also, relating to >>15924535 it maybe some just innate racism of marxists, without much giving thought? hard to tell

[Anonymous No.15931752]

>>15931121
i don't know about the former, but my guess for the latter is something like "autism"

[Anonymous No.15931755]

>>15931692
because mere combinatorics of existing things for the sake of sensual pleasure not only doesn't advance consciousness, it stagnates and regresses it

under a hegelian marxist understanding art is protophilosophical so it's supposed to challenge your existing (incomplete) conceptual order and advance it to greater self-consciousness and completeness as it resolves its own antinomies, put very simply you are supposed to see what us objectively wrong and fix it. man's aesthetic life should ideally (and for marxists will ultimately) coincide with his conceptual life so that his play is not distinct from his work and neither are distinct from his thinking, simply being his objective self will also be a creative and expressive act and not in tension with other objective selves self-creating themselves.

jazz is regressive because it isn't aimed at this, it's frivolously delightful noodling designed to soothe angst-ridden bourgeois consciousnesses. the solution to that angst is supposed to be to remedy its causes, not to soothe it narcotically. that's why marxists emphasize the pain of self-consciousness, you are supposed to be awakened to your pain, not flee into an opiate stupor that makes it just scarcely bearable for one more day. dancing the night away at a jazz club because the noodling stimulates your primitive animal lusts for rhythmic gyrating is hiding the pain, not revealing it so it can be fixed.

marxists don't want to make the life of workers under the bourgeois system of production more bearable, until it's like a sedated daydream. they want to wake us from the daydream to full realization of our pain so we can cure the disease

that's the elitist streak in adorno, also why he's closer to true marxism than vast majority of people claiming to be marxists, who are in fact more like social democrats

[Anonymous No.15931776]

>>15931755
JAZZ IS BASED YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKING RETARD

[Anonymous No.15931823]

>>15931755
>jazz is regressive because it isn't aimed at this, it's frivolously delightful noodling designed to soothe angst-ridden bourgeois consciousnesses. the solution to that angst is supposed to be to remedy its causes, not to soothe it narcotically. that's why marxists emphasize the pain of self-consciousness, you are supposed to be awakened to your pain, not flee into an opiate stupor that makes it just scarcely bearable for one more day. dancing the night away at a jazz club because the noodling stimulates your primitive animal lusts for rhythmic gyrating is hiding the pain, not revealing it so it can be fixed.
but isnt this what happened at tribal music "festival", feastdays, etc? dont see anything wrong with it, tbqh. it just seems like too much germanic autism a-la hegel-marx - politicization of all aesthetics, so to speak. (being aware of slippery slope is important, but still)

i still think the innate nature of "uncontrolability" of jazz, utter lack of standardization is what makes hegelian-marxists seethe at jazz. its just fun time bro

[Anonymous No.15931864]

>>15931746
>innate racism of marxists
Innate racism of old Europe, more like. And liking bebop, cool jazz, and whatever else is fine by me. I actually think bebop and cool jazz mark a turning point in the genre, a turn away from music which was explicitly for dancing towards something which was really only meant to be listened to. Not that I think there is anything wrong with "dance music," in many ways it is more artful than any academic music. But the immediacy of it led to its easy packaging as a product, and that's what Adorno disliked about it

[Anonymous No.15931881]

>>15931864
i suppose. anyway, freddie hubbard isnt exactly easiest artist to dance to kek.

[Anonymous No.15931903]

>>15931121
I'm glad someone finally is talking about the theory itself. According to Jung, music expresses the unconscious part of the mind through movements and transformations of sound, and the feelings music arouses are due to this. Of course you could consciously think about music and analyze its technical components, but music for the most part is not meant to be thought about, but it's meant to be felt. So the target audience of music is not for the most part the conscious mind, but it is the unconscious.

I myself don't claim to be immune at all. If the theory holds any truth, I should possess manufactured instincts as well. Although, I believe i would possess much fewer than the amount most people would have, and that is because for some reason or another I haven't listened to modern music as much as most people have.

[Anonymous No.15931966]

>>15931776
jazz is shit, fuck you!

>>15931823
yeah but it's then funtime as parasitic upon notfun-time, as a negation of notfun-time. this is similar to adorno's point in his essay on leisure time. leisure time implies the reality of completely alienated non-leisure time, leisure is the negation of "work" where work is understood as totally meaningless to the worker. on this understanding work is what the worker does to acquire more leisure time. so his work is perfectly abstracted from him, alienated from him, it is other than him, aka it is a commodity to be bought and sold just like he is.

the only cure for this situation is to realize that the unconsciously assumed concept of a binary distinction between work (alienated productive labor sold as commodity to acquire "money") and leisure (purely "fun", aka nonproductive labor, acquired by storing up enough money, let's say a day's wages for an evening's leisure) is inherently broken and to fix it. you can't fix that if you're currently engaged with it, if your whole existence is built up on and shot through with activities and habits that presume the false concept to begin with.

it's a fair critique to say that this view necessarily makes everything "political." you can negate it apriori by saying that it's totalitarian and totalitarianism is bad. but while making that critique you should also consider the opposite position's reciprocal critique. what if they're right? what if they're partially right? what if this kind of totalizing view is necessary sometimes, or should be sublated into a more complete view, not just disregarded because it's not perfect or it has unpleasant consequences? is the opposite view (keep doing things as we're doing them) perfect and free from problems simply because the marxist view isn't? but if you rejected the marxist view because it raises problems, then shouldn't you also reject the other view, in which case haven't you benefited from the marxist view and in some sense incorporated it?

to reply specifically to your uncontrollability thing, that is a less fair critique. unlike the apriori critique of the marxist totalizing view, the uncontrollability thing is actually explained from WITHIN the marxist critique. you can still disagree with their explanation of it of course, but you can't do so apriori.

[Anonymous No.15931978]

>>15931966
>>15931823

the marxist critique of uncontrollability stems from the hegelian notion of freedom, which frequently comes up in marxist duels with existentialists and in marx's critique of stirner. mere anarchy is not freedom. humans are social beings, so they can't just abstain or abstract themselves from society, because society and its real relations already had a hand in constructing them. true freedom, true liberation from society would thus mean negating society by reincorporating it into yourself, with its contradictions, and changing (fixing) those contradictions, not simply negating them and retreating into yourself as a radical subjectivity

put less pretentiously, if jazz has turned everyone around you into a gyrating moron, and has turned you into a gyrating moron who loves to gyrate (low expectations), you aren't suddenly free when you say "i'll do whatever i want; and what i want is to gyrate." you are in fact the most enslaved you've ever been

this is why marxists hate deleuze sorts, whose whole philosophy centers around "how can we free up the subject to be more authentically himself?" they see the ideological world as made up of normative ideas, like gender and so forth, and think they can free themselves from this by a purely subjective, purely internal rebellious and critical stance against them. but the point is that their subjectivity is made up of socially conditioned ideas, so they can't rebel against socially conditioned ideas by opposing "their" internal ideas against them. you can only rebel by engaging with the material, not by abstaining from it, because you are yourself made up of that material before you begin your rebellion.

[Anonymous No.15932025]

>>15931978
thanks. that marxist vs. deleuze question seems a bit like chicken vs egg, if i put it "really" bluntly. at the end of the day, most "effective" means of praxis differs from ages to ages, so i think in present moment, deleuze rings more bells than marx - the void of pure materialism seems too wrought, to say the least.

>yeah but it's then funtime as parasitic upon notfun-time, as a negation of notfun-time. this is similar to adorno's point in his essay on leisure time. leisure time implies the reality of completely alienated non-leisure time, leisure is the negation of "work" where work is understood as totally meaningless to the worker. on this understanding work is what the worker does to acquire more leisure time. so his work is perfectly abstracted from him, alienated from him, it is other than him, aka it is a commodity to be bought and sold just like he is.
is it necessarily true? were farmers so alienated from their jobs, and thought of their jobs as meaningless, only to have not-notfun time with drinks and folk music and dance? seems a bit too extreme.

[Anonymous No.15932053]

>>15931755
That's the reason I don't like marxist art. Art is not meant to produce any conceptual beliefs, unlike what marxist propagandists would have you believe. Art rather should express platonic truths in their purest form, and this purity elevates it from the conceptual realm. And if this purity captures the mind and delights it so much, why do marxists seethe before a pure work of art? Coincidentally it also shows why marxist art like Bertolt Brecht is such a joke compared to pure art. It's not art, but pretends to be.

[Anonymous No.15932082]

>>15932053
based schopie poster

[Anonymous No.15932129]

Read this, op.

[Anonymous No.15933283]

bump

[Anonymous No.15933660]

Where do I get started on this fucker

[Anonymous No.15934739]

bump for OP to get more answers to his actual question, it's interesting

[Anonymous No.15934759]

>>15934739
What do you think, anon? Does the theory hold water?

[Anonymous No.15934784]

>>15915710
Excellent post

[Anonymous No.15934813]

>>15924535
source from that quote?
Couldn't find it anywhere.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15934842]

>>15923618
Who?

[Anonymous No.15934864]

>popular music exists to make its record execs rich

Wow some great revelation right there st john.

[Anonymous No.15934892]

>>15915710
This is what passes for a good post on /lit/? Someone who went to one communications lecture in university? Yes, congratulations, Adorno was a virgin loser who thought jazz sucked and preferred classicial.

>IDEAS will become simpler as well. People from 100 years ago could think more complexly about something like "revolution" than you can
This is literally the same as "DAE music from the 60s and 70s was better than Justin Bieber?!?" in Youtube comments, but obviously the pseuds on /lit/ lap up any chance to feel elite and superior

[Anonymous No.15934955]

>all these idiots who don't realize music is a double edged sword
While most """"pop"""" music is a tool to control the masses there are innumerable bands both independent and labeled by jews that use the medium as a way to communicate to understand different vantage points of life, the human condition, the political landscape and more abstract and esoteric concepts. Circa survive, the sound of animals fighting are 2 prime examples

[Anonymous No.15934981]

>>15934892
>DAE music from the 60s and 70s was better than Justin Bieber?!?
Yeah, I do

[Anonymous No.15935030]

>>15915710
that's the best thing i've ever read on this board

[Anonymous No.15935045]

OP here. I feel like I was cucked by Adorno lmao. Could you guys at least critique my theory?

[Anonymous No.15935079]

So... Wich books are reccomended in the thread?

[Anonymous No.15935097]

>>15935079
Culture of Critique

[Anonymous No.15935145]

>>15935079
Propaganda - Edward Bernays
Instinct and the Unconscious - Jung
The Culture Industry - Adorno
The New Science - Vico
Propaganda - Ellul
Public Opinion - Walter Lippmann

[Anonymous No.15935394]

>It's useful to consider music in relation to the tripartite Platonic soul
>The three parts are located in different homes of the body: 1) logos is located in the head. It concerns reason and regulates the other parts; thymos is located in the heart and it concerns spirit, pride, anger and feelings, and 3) eros is located in the gut and genitals and is related to desires, appetites, lusts, cravings and instinctual drives
>In Schopenhauer's system, we might infer that the highest-frequency music is associated with the head, with logos. Mid-frequencies are associated with the heart, with thymos. Low-frequencies are associated with the gut and genitals, with eros, below that is gross matter.

From the Musical Theory of Existence by Steve Madison.

[Anonymous No.15936837]

>>15923775
>>15924275
>>15924432
>hasn't replied
Oh nononoono

[Anonymous No.15936892]

>>15915710
WOOOOOOOOOAH WOOOOOA CLAPPING NOISE, WOOOOOOOOOOOAH WOOOOOOOOOOOOH CLAPING NOISE, EVERYONE HOLDING HANDS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH CLAP.....SLOW.....CLAP....SLOW....CLAP