Why the Left always have the better songs?

[Anonymous No.15899677]

How does the Left manages to write the Narrative across many historical events, including even their own defeats

[Anonymous No.15899692]

>>15899677
That's only true if you only read people from the Left

[Anonymous No.15899699]

To generate art you need to be creative, and reactionaries are by definition obsessed with the past. The closeted polcuck that whines about minorities being cast as historically white figures on Netflix would have called Mona Lisa obscene. That's why creative industries are filled with left wingers- not out of a conspiracy to keep reactionaries out but because no one wants to consume inane idolatry of a bygone age, which is all reactionaries have to offer...

[Anonymous No.15899709]

because the left is the ideological daughter of the christian religion, and religion has always had the best music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKwcFiNe7xw

[Anonymous No.15899729]

>>15899699
Then why did the most revolutionary composers and poets of the 20th century all have reactionary politics?

[Anonymous No.15899732]

>>15899699
>that's why left-wingers don't have a real job, instead they are obsessed with the childish ida of constantly expressing themselves through whatever they call "art" now

[Anonymous No.15899733]

>>15899692
This is Right Wing Cope. The Nationalists don't have a Equivalent to Pan's Laberynth or the Devil's Backbone
For example, Pic related is the only media that explicitly does side with a Right Winger in the Russian Civil War, the war where people does dislike the Bolsheviks

[Anonymous No.15899759]

>>15899733
>tacky del Toro pictures are worthy of praise
The arts have declined more under the stewardship of the broader left in the past 70 years than they have at any other point in history, and I don’t think it’s entirely a coincidence.

[Anonymous No.15899764]

>>15899677
>Why the Left always have the better songs?
They don't.
Japanese Left:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq9pXGShrHk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enb15Bzyt3o
Japanese Right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmpQF0jFcJo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21_3GzH914
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6ITBcGazpI
>How does the Left manages to write the Narrative across many historical events, including even their own defeats
This is a product of the past 75 years. Things have not always been this way.

[Anonymous No.15899837]

>>15899759
Still, regardless of value judgements. The thing is that the Left got the stewardship of the arts.
How did that happen?

[Anonymous No.15899872]

>>15899733
Film is unusually tilted towards the Left because you need to convince a whole lot of people to let you make a film and the left more or less run the film industry. But there was of course Birth of a Nation and whatever before the control of Hollywood was consolidated.

If you look at writers it is a lot more evenly split. They're always crazy too, full out reactionaries or commies, never just like a liberal. Idk if the point of these threads is just bait people into writing out those lists of right wing writers but it's highly autistic either way to collect writers onto your team like pokemon.

[Sage No.15899898]

another shit-flinging political thread made by an American on a literature board.

[Anonymous No.15899930]

>>15899898
the jannitor is left leaning and leaves up threads where discussion favours his affiliation.

[今晚打老虎 No.15900072]

>>15899837
im also interested in this as well.
niggas got a point. all the great Vietnam songs were anti-war.

[Anonymous No.15900086]

>>15899729
citation needed

[Anonymous No.15900108]

>>15899930
/lit/ has no Janitor
/lit/ needs no Janitor

[Anonymous No.15900119]

>>15899837
The arts were NEVER in the hands of reactionaries.

[Anonymous No.15900153]

>>15900086
Schoenberg and Stravinsky both had reactionary politics as did Pound, Eliot, Stein, and Yeats.

[Anonymous No.15900161]

>>15900153
>Schoenberg and Stravinsky
god the 20th century was such a mistake

[Anonymous No.15900167]

>>15900153
>Schoenberg
kek nazis banned his music you fucking idiot

[Anonymous No.15900173]

>>15900167
And his politics were still reactionary, and he believed his music to be a continuation of the German tradition.

[Anonymous No.15900182]

>>15900167
his wiki page calls him a monarchist. Idk how much faith to put in this statement but that is definitely reactionary

[Anonymous No.15900342]

>>15899677
>Why the Left always have the better songs?
Answering in all seriousness- Left wingers can create good songs and films because these mediums can survive deep politicisation without being completely stripped of artistic merit. Music and cinematography are not ruined by groupthink, censorship, or subordination of all content to the dictates of a centralised authority or the conventions of a decentralised orthodoxy.
(There are just too many variables to play with.)

>>15899699
Partly true but also uncharitable. For example, there are creative mediums where the qualities you highlight are actually a strength. Poetry contains many worthy reactionaries and disillusioned leftists. There are also good arguments that minority casting decisions are not driven by progress, or even the dominance of progressive politics, but by the way advertising currently functions. Just another example of the contemporary "left" actually being useful idiots and fig leaves for capital doing its thing, lol. Reactionaries have a lot to offer art, precisely because progress is often not what it thinks it is and must be questioned and compared to some benchmark.

[Anonymous No.15900465]

>>15899699
This is a silly and deluded way of looking at the world and at art, and I think if you worked to see the nuance in things your life would improve. You at least would have a chance to actually understand things!

Great artists are sufficiently complex in how they see the world that the terms “reactionary” or “progressive,” “left” or “right” fail utterly. Dante, Milton, Virgil, Shakespeare and Dostoevsky and Tolstoy and Borges would all be considered “reactionary” by some for some of their views: but it is safe to say that each has a richer understanding of politics than the person tagging them as “reactionary” does.

You ought to try to see in what way the greatest artists and minds actually far surpass your own. Try to learn from them. The basic philosophical/literary experience is just that: opening up a Plato or Augustine, and reading for a bit, only to find that their understanding far, far surpasses your own.

[Anonymous No.15900483]

>>15900465
>Dante, Milton, Virgil, Shakespeare and Dostoevsky and Tolstoy and Borges would all be considered “reactionary”
Not really except for Dosto
>opening up a Plato
Revolutionary thinker, the opposite of a reactionary
>or Augustine
Hack religitard

[Anonymous No.15900575]

>>15900182
It's very weird to talk about right wingers that opossed the Nazis because the Nazis became a sort of catch-all term for all types of reactionary in Western Speech

[Anonymous No.15900632]

>>15900483
Lol, You clearly haven’t read the authors you are trying to talk about, and it shows.

Have you read Troilus and Cressida by Shakespeare? Or Coriolanus? In both Shakespeare affirms the central importance of an order of rank among citizens of society is to function. He actually has two whole acts in T and C devoted to making just this point. Coriolanus is literally about a superior man being dragged down by the base idiotic plebeians. Reactionary as it gets.

Have you read Paradise Lost by Milton? Or Paradise Regained? He literally spends pages on pages in the former on the flawed nature of women, and in both harps on and on on the absolute necessity of obedience to a divine sovereign. Absolute Obedience, of women to men and men to God, is Milton’s highest virtue.

Have you read Purgatorio or Paradiso by Dante? Literally straight medieval Thomistic orthodoxy. Thomas himself literally makes a guest appearance.

Virgil’s work is literally a nationalist paen to Rome.

Tolstoy was exceedingly religious, who believed a Christian ought to live in strict accordance with the gospel. I suppose in this case, depending on your view of religion, you can view him as either a radical or reactionary.

Borges was a fascist you dumbass.

Now whether or not these personally meet your standard of “reactionary” is not even the question: as I clearly stated, (and you somehow failed to read) the question is whether or not some of their views have been tagged as reactionary. And they have. I have read the criticism.

You, on the other hand, want to talk about things you don’t understand in a attempt to fit everything into a predetermined scheme where anyone who doesn’t share your narrow and quite stupid view of the world must be bad and stupid themselves. It is pathetic, and it harms you most of all, because it shuts you off from learning anything.

[Anonymous No.15900645]

>>15900575
You're right that a monarchist will probably just register as 'some sort of weird fascist' to a lot of people. It is too bad literally no actual monarchies remained in the West, would have been interesting to see how a modern monarchy would be.

[Anonymous No.15900665]

>>15900632
>Borges was a fascist you dumbass.
Wrong. Your post betrays an overall misunderstanding of reactionary movements.

[Anonymous No.15900680]

>>15900665
You haven't actually said anything. Do you have some complete meme in your mind of what reactionaries are?

[Anonymous No.15900692]

>>15900680
If you equate religion with reactionary movements there's nothing to refute- you are simply empirically wrong. Calling Borges a fascist is laughable- he is an anarchist you stupid fuck. You have trouble with history.

[Anonymous No.15900710]

>>15900692
Borges is associated with fascism because he praised Pinochet

[Anonymous No.15900711]

>>15900632
>Borges was a fascist you dumbass.
This is totally wrong. He described himself as a Spencerian Anarchist. He was basically a right wing anarchist or protolibertarian.

[Anonymous No.15900717]

>>15900665
“After the overthrow via coup d'état of President Juan Domingo Perón in 1955, Borges supported efforts to purge Argentina's Government of Peronists and dismantle the former President's welfare state. He was enraged that the Communist Party of Argentina opposed these measures and sharply criticized them in lectures and in print.”

You can call him “not a fascist” if you would like. I think he certainly behaved like one, even if he wouldn’t use the term.

But to say he was not a reactionary is complete idiocy.

[Anonymous No.15900725]

>>15900692
he also was kind of complimentary towards Franco

[Anonymous No.15900772]

>>15899677
Find me a better leftist song then this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xid2_oEP5ho

[Anonymous No.15900802]

>>15900772
* a leftist song better then this

[Anonymous No.15900874]

it’s almost like leftists are interesting and creative and empathetic and have a spark for life
whereas conservatives and reactionaries are just boring and can’t even get angry about things in a fun way

[Anonymous No.15900883]

>>15900874
it is rather transparent that the only reason you're leftist is because you think declaring yourself one is going to make you seem interesting, creative, etc. It really doesn't though, you are never going to make a single person think that about you

[Anonymous No.15900888]

>>15899677
>How does the Left manages to write the Narrative across many historical events, including even their own defeats
Define your terms, dicklick.

[Anonymous No.15901007]

>>15900645
Monarchists are dumb but I like their ideas of adding a mysticism to rulership, Civic Nationalism initially wanted to do that but apparently even that now is "Nazi" for modern liberals

[Anonymous No.15901015]

>>15899732
stop posting this picture of me

[Anonymous No.15901027]

>>15900883
nah
I just like to express the truth and see how ya’ll handle it
you don’t take it very well and end up lashing out because you think that you can win an argument by making the other side feel weak or insignifcant, which isn’t how arguments work (but it is what you fear, which is why you take that tact).

[Anonymous No.15901029]

>>15899764
>This is a product of the past 75 years. Things have not always been this way.
There isn't a clearly defined string of left wing and right wing thought that goes back for hundreds and thousands of years. For example a Catholic monarchist counter reformation had nothing to do with the modern alt right. Also imperialism and nationalism in general doesn't automatically mean that "they were just like me and my new butt buddy movement teehee"

[Anonymous No.15901036]

>>15900874
Find me a better song then this then. >>15900772

[Anonymous No.15901046]

>>15899733
I'm amazed at that director's ability to get jobs. He is completely inept. It's either nepotism, corruption, or incompetence.

[Anonymous No.15901049]

>>15901007
I don't think monarchists are dumb. You basically always end up with an elite who exploit everyone else. The best you can hope for is to mitigate this exploitation and there are arguments that monarchy will be less insane than other forms of government. I'm not exactly convinced but I also don't think their arguments are necessarily stupid. A problem people don't talk about enough is that the best form of government(in the sense of mitigating elite exploitation) is going to vary depending on factors technological, economical, social, religious, biological, etc. This was something Fascists did at least understand, that you likely have to tailor your government to the specific people and situation you have on your hands. Though it also brings up the historical determinist issue of whether these complex circumstances just dictate the forms of governments themselves and there isn't much hope of pushing whatever form of government into circumstances that don't allow for it.

[Anonymous No.15901145]

>>15901036
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Yes7Z4zxM

[Anonymous No.15901220]

>>15901049
>A problem people don't talk about enough is that the best form of government(in the sense of mitigating elite exploitation) is going to vary depending on factors technological, economical, social, religious, biological, etc.
Anarchist talk about this but they are ironically the most ridiculously uniform ideology once you strip their aesthetics away. Or when they realize some ethnic groups wouldn't never like anarchism and that causes them a shortcut because they found a contradiction in their worldview

[Anonymous No.15901279]

>>15899872
>Idk if the point of these threads is just bait people into writing out those lists of right wing writers but it's highly autistic either way to collect writers onto your team like pokemon.
I mean, it's kinda hard to not do it. Appeal to Authority is a thing

[Anonymous No.15901283]

>>15901220
I've always liked the idea of anarchism, I'm instinctively aligned to it honestly. It's obvious that their actual plans are rather ridiculous, but their desire for liberty is commendable. There are of course a lot of people calling themselves anarchists that actually want to control literally everybody and make them act exactly as they want, they somehow reconcile this with their ostensible appreciation for freedom by making arguments that would have a monarchist blush about the necessity of forestalling evil through control. I mean you can call it not a state, but there is no way to achieve that level of power over what every single person does without it being a state.

[Anonymous No.15901326]

Flaubert said that universal suffrage was a mistake and that peasants should be put back under serfdom.

[Anonymous No.15901396]

>>15899837
Most artistic jobs cannot support a family and rely on patronage from ultra-capital and the state, both attracting existing leftists and inducing sympathy to their ideals.

[Anonymous No.15901419]

OP here, By the way. Anyone knows of historical fiction with sympathy for right wing people?
Not just certain right leaning ideals, but ones where the character is openly a right winger in a historical context.

[Anonymous No.15901448]

>>15900874
I want to know

how a man's penis can smell so foul
and yet he cannot for the life of him
grasp such a simple concept of what
left wing and right wing actually mean.

Conservatism and progressivism are both dumb ideologies when taken to the extreme; changing nothing is stagnation, as good as death. Changing everything is a complete eradication of what once was, which is precisely death. Left and right are just buzzwords that have no concrete meaning anymore. You're racist? Right wing, you only like capitalism now. You care about the environment? Left wing, you only like socialism now. These are prepackaged labels, i.e. things retards use because they dont know how to create their own worldview. The people who have arguments over whether "the left or right made better art" are the same people who can't make art, theyre the people who run Windows or iOS, because they would rather let someone else think for them (even if it costs them their freedom). You have no idea how lowly I regard you.

[Anonymous No.15901805]

>>15901145
bullshit

[Anonymous No.15901811]

>>15900772
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYJmGaBMQJ8

[Anonymous No.15901812]

>>15899677
>How does the Left
Define the term "Left".

[Anonymous No.15901875]

>>15899837
In terms of art as politics, what do you think will motivate more people: art showing why everything should stay the same or art testing new boundaries, views and ways of seeing the world? Human beings get bored of repetition.

[Anonymous No.15901897]

>>15901875
But modern leftists are part of the status quo, not revolutionary or transgressive in any way
Going by your logic the extremist right should be the dominant artistic force

[Anonymous No.15902023]

>>15901897
Leftists haven’t held power since the 40s, at least in America. All the dems since then have been largely liberal

[Anonymous No.15902036]

>>15902023
but they do hold cultural power, which is the question at hand

[Anonymous No.15902049]

>They say evil men have no songs: why then do the Russians have songs?
As ever OP eternally BTFO by Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.15902058]

holy fuck why is /lit/ getting raided this hard? Why is nobody calling out these retards?

[Anonymous No.15902169]

Because we're intellectually superior, and you know it.

[Anonymous No.15902197]

>>15899837
Because the left produces the right kind of art for global capital. Inconsequential and inclusive, anodyne and profane

[Anonymous No.15902206]

>>15901811
nah
>>15901145
nah

[Anonymous No.15902208]

>>15901897
>>15902023
>>15902197
Get a load of these assholes who didn't even define "left", due to their ... uhm...erm... let's just say they are impotent.

[Anonymous No.15902223]

>>15901049
>I don't think monarchists are dumb. You basically always end up with an elite who exploit everyone else. The best you can hope for is to mitigate this exploitation and there are arguments that monarchy will be less insane than other forms of government.

This is why I have come around to monarchy and aristocracy.

I have been reading up on history and political theory for a few years now and it has made me an extreme pessimist about the prospects of any "revolution." It's all useless. It's all bullshit. There will never be a proletariat revolution. Marx's hazy dream of the elimination of class is as stupid and foolish as any utopia ever devised by any writer. It's all fucking bullshit.

We have spent 300 years trying to eliminate the concentration of wealth and power in the world, or at least in the West. And where have we wound up? We have wound up right back where we started: with a small collection of individuals and families owning the vast majority of wealth and political power in the world. I'd argue that it might be even WORSE than it was before the English/American/French Revolutions.

So fuck it. I'm done trying to push a string. Still being a Jacobin/Bolshevik/Communist/Leftist is a fool's errand in 2020. Fuck it all. No more trying to do what can't be done. We will always have a hierarchy, we might as well just have a de jure hierarchy if we're stuck with a de facto one.

I favor aristocratic republics. A mixing of monarchy and democracy. A middle ground between rule by one and rule by all. Seems to me that it manages to thread the needle and be Aristotle's "mean between two extremes." Basically, I think every polity on the planet should have the same government as the Republic of Venice. This is where my musings about politics over years has led me.

[Anonymous No.15902230]

>>15902208
The left celebrates diversity, sexual and ethnic minorities, humanism, materialism, being on the right side of history, democracy, black lives matter and feminism

[Anonymous No.15902235]

>>15900161
Filtered.

[Anonymous No.15902239]

>>15902230
lol.............. r u sure ?????

[Anonymous No.15902246]

>>15902239
A real leftist will always acquiesce on these topics. Doesn't matter if it's a self-professed communist or a liberal

[Anonymous No.15902266]

>>15902246
You're something of a dumbfuck, no?

[Anonymous No.15902270]

>>15902266
What makes you say that?

[Anonymous No.15902372]

>>15901007
>Civic Nationalism initially wanted to do that
How so?

[Anonymous No.15902397]

>>15900342
>Fig leaves
What an apt way to describe them

[Anonymous No.15902406]

>>15899677
Cope
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FLhoqmt9hEw&t=75s