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/lit/ - Literature

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15897527 No.15897527 [Reply] [Original]

where do i start with political philosophy?

>> No.15897546

>>15897527
>political
>philosophy
kys

>> No.15897548

The Republic of Plato if you are not a woman
and The History of Political Philosophy edited by Strauss if you are american

>> No.15897568

>>15897527
Plato - The Republic
Aristotle - Politics
Spinoza - Theologico-Political Treatise
Rousseau - The Social Contract, Discourse on Inequality
Kant - The Political Writings
Hegel - Philosophy of Right
Marx - Grundrisse, Capital
Nietzsche - Genealogy of Morals
Lenin - The State and Revolution
Leo Strauss - Natural Right and History, History of Political Philosophy
Carl Schmitt - The Concept of the Political (with the addition of Benjamin's The Origin of German Tragic Drama)
Agamben - Homo Sacer
Postone - Time, Labor, and Social Domination
Should be a wide-reaching historical/ideological tasting board

>> No.15897571

>>15897527
Start with the final redpill, philosophical anarchism

>> No.15897584
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15897584

>>15897527
Educate yourself

>> No.15897585

>>15897548
>>15897527
id personally say nicho. ethics by Aristotle. it lays out the basic corporate (not in the modern sense per say, but corpore as in body, body if state, etc) structure used for statescraft and other structual affairs. the. maybe go over a few guild charters and the charter if the dutch east india company(maybe some religious stuff if you feel like it like anslem, city of god). then go for leviathian and avsolitist monarch writings. then roussoau locke and the gang for birth of liveralism. adam smith and marx, and maybe something else.

>> No.15897600

>>15897568
>not augustine, hobbes or locke
How is he supposed to understand Rousseau and have a coherent interpretation of it?
>Lenin, Nietzsche, Agamben but not Fichte
holy cringe

>> No.15897601

>>15897568
a lot of that list ways a lot more towards pure philosophy instead of political philosophy. especially neitzche and stuff. not to mention missing big ones like Leviathian, Wealth of nations, and a few of the absolutists.

>> No.15897604

>>15897568
No Kropotkin?

>> No.15897606

>>15897604
only serious ideologies

>> No.15897611

>>15897585
retarded writing but correct. I'll still insist on starting with Plato though

>> No.15897613

>>15897527
that's a fucking dude

>> No.15897615
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15897615

>>15897585
>id personally say nicho. ethics by Aristotle

>> No.15897622

>>15897527
Rawls is the starting point. Everyone is basically reacting to his work.

>> No.15897628

>>15897606
>Only people who don't remit their own asserts to empirical evidence

>> No.15897634

>>15897568
Definitely kill yourself you subhuman retard

>> No.15897639

>>15897611
sorry, disabled autocorrect because it was annoying me. also dirty phone poster.

>> No.15897644

>>15897622
Nigga 20th century political philosophy doesn't even count

>> No.15897645

>>15897600
A bit off the cuff, Hobbes and Locke would be good additions but wanted to give enough from different time periods
>Augistine
Debatable
>Fichte
unless he is studying the development of german nationalism I'd say that the others named are far more relevant. Maybe once he tackles most of those Fichte would be applicable
>>15897601
I would argue that Nietzsche's genealogy underscores the conservative revolutionaries and the radical aristocratic strain that runs through far-right 20th-century thought. Agree that Leviathian was an omission. Wealth of Nations I feel like even if you had a basic education you get the gist. Who would you recommend for absolutist? Feel like its a moribund ideology so not as relevant unless you are interested in history.
>>15897634
Waaa waaa I criticize but don't provide a list because I'm a little retard. Sure guy

>> No.15897652

>>15897628
>>15897604
literally would be a subset of marxism and anti capitalism. is a particular flavor of it, not that important in itself.

>> No.15897655

>>15897645
You are subhuman trash stop posting piece of shit retard you never even read augustine, hobbes, and locke

>> No.15897663

>>15897652

>>15897628
there's never been a serious or influential anarchist thinker. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to OP by assuming that he is not a teenager

>> No.15897667

>>15897655
locke got refuted by hegel
>>15897663
read bakunin pleb

>> No.15897670

>>15897655
Certainly read most of Locke and Hobbes. I'm not a trad-cath child so only read Augustine when I've needed to in order to understand relevent works. Cry more

>> No.15897676
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15897676

>>15897527

>> No.15897683

Hobbes
Schmitt
Dugin
>yyyyeeeaaaaaaa!!! all right! based!
Locke
Rousseau
Rawls
>booooooooooooooo! getthefuck offthestage! cringe faggots!

>> No.15897684

>>15897645
>Wealth of Nations I feel like even if you had a basic education you get the gist.
i think thats a contextual statement. just because we live under a paradigm that makes a lot of WoN obvious, that only makes it even more important to understand completely if anything. not to mention most people don’t understand that Smith isnt just “capitalism ho!” but has a messured and nuanced understanding of controlling it that would make most libertarians itchy and even be a bit much for regular conservatives.

absolutists are important in understanding what the liberals were reacting against. i know there is a few frenchies under louis the 13th who wrote about it well, but completely forgot.

>> No.15897686

>>15897663
Probably because there is a lot of people who think like you

>> No.15897687

>>15897667
not fair at all because Hegel didn't set up to refute anyone as much as rescue the elements of truth present in everyone who came before him.

>> No.15897689

>>15897676
Good list
Ignore this subhuman >>15897568 he's never read a book in his life

>> No.15897698
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15897698

>anarchism

>> No.15897700

>>15897684

fair enough with regard to WoN. In that case, would you also add any Ricardo or Keynes? assuming then that a distinction between economics and politics is fuzzy at best? Genuine question.

>> No.15897708

>>15897689
cope -- couldn't even offer your own list brainlet

>> No.15897720

>>15897708
Kys disgusting pseud

>> No.15897732

>>15897720
I've read all the books I recommended. Can you say the same anon?

>> No.15897733

>>15897686
>there is a lot of people
Do all anarchists speak in ebonics? I know negro worship is one of the big elements of the ideology

>> No.15897762
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15897762

>>15897698
>bootlicking

>> No.15897775

>>15897762
waaah I hate it when daddy tell me what to do... maybe this is a political philosophy?

>> No.15897776

>>15897733
I'm just saying just because he wasn't "influential", that is to be quoted by other people, doesn't mean it doesn't has any value. Schopenhauer is seldom mentioned by other people and he is probably the best philosopher of all times...

>> No.15897778

>>15897762
>not having your boots licked
what, are you little people?

>> No.15897810

>>15897698
>>15897762
>the duality of man

>> No.15897812

>>15897733
brainlet retard https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/lupus-dragonowl-against-identity-politics

>> No.15897826

>>15897698
>>15897775
>can't do anything his daddy doesn't order him to

>> No.15897833

>>15897762
the irony is that anarchism in practice is just deferred bootlicking when their inability to form a coherent whole to defend their interests results in assimilation by whatever greater power bothers to do so first, whereas the so-called "bootlickers" actually get to choose a master from among themselves, a luxury unknown to the conquered
really makes you think

>> No.15897841

>>15897733
>Do all anarchists speak in ebonics?
"a lot" is singular, you mouthbreathing kneegrow.

>> No.15897844
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15897844

>>15897776
>and he is probably the best philosopher of all times...

>> No.15897845
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15897845

>Why yes i'm a free thinker h-how could you tell?

>> No.15897855

>>15897845
god i wanna hatefuck him so bad

>> No.15897858

>>15897776
i'm genuinely surprised people consider Schopeanhauer a philosopher at all

>> No.15897862

>>15897527
Start with the Bronze age, anything else is a waste of time

>> No.15897866

>>15897527
With the Greeks

>> No.15897868

>>15897858
Do you know what metaphysics are?

>> No.15897876
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15897876

>>15897855
>him

>> No.15897881

>>15897841
>"a lot" is singular
i would ask you where you learned english but that would be assuming too much

>> No.15897886

>>15897868
yeah, but there are plenty of definitions, which one do you mean in particular?

>> No.15897909

>>15897775
You're right, the political philosophy where daddy loves it that his child is obedient is a much better one.

>>15897833
Nice strawman

>> No.15897945

>>15897881
There is a vacant LOT that I'd like to show you. Bring a baggie for your teeth.

>> No.15897963

>>15897909
i think a father loving his child is a better basis for governance than a son hating his father if you want to extend the metaphor

>> No.15897965

>>15897868
>Do you know what metaphysics are?
You mean "is".

>> No.15897975

>>15897945
>what is grammatical context

>> No.15897983

>>15897975
I'm serious. You might also want to write down your next of kin on a slip of paper. You sound especially delicate.

>> No.15897997

>>15897963
>t. can't even function without a daddy figure

>> No.15898010

>>15897997
no one can buddy pick up some lacan. nice try though.

>> No.15898013
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15898013

>>15897527
start and end-game

>> No.15898015

>>15898010
>lacan
Cringe.

>> No.15898018

>>15898015

get filtered

>> No.15898029

>>15898018
>taking a clown seriously
wew

>> No.15898033

>>15897568
>skipping Spengler
ngmi

>> No.15898048

>>15897983
Post address pussy

>> No.15898049

>>15897963
The father doesn't love the child, he loves it that the child follows orders.

>> No.15898056

bait question

first post best post

many pseuds

>> No.15898071

>>15897886
The same as Kant, if Schopenhauer is not a philosopher them Leibniz, Hume, Kant, Spinoza, Plato and Lock aren't either. He reduce Kant philosophy to one single principle... Metaphysics is knowledge about what's beyond empirical experience to any respectable author

>> No.15898073

>>15898049
these anarchists larpers would have been easily Peterson fanboys had they discovered him first.

>> No.15898075

>>15898049
who doesn't. you ever been around a bratty misbehaved kid?

>> No.15898078

>>15898071
you must be 18+ to post in here

>> No.15898093

>>15898075
I'm your daddy now. Prepare to get your ass whipped, son.

>> No.15898117

>>15897527
Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Mill, Leonard Hobhouse, Isiah Berlin and John Rawls. Skip anything authoritarian.

>> No.15898124

>>15898117
Oh. And skip anarchists who don't believe in some form of social contract justifying government's monopoly on force.

>> No.15898133

>>15898093
Jews have so thoroughly mind-raped the west with Freud that the middling intellect, laughably inept in comprehension, has resorted to psuedo-psychoanatical analogies to perform any sort of political abstraction. The chandala arrogance would be enraging were I not high above such pettiness.

>> No.15898160

>>15898133
That's enough out of you. Now bend over.

>> No.15898210 [DELETED] 

>>15898073
The right was actually the single biggest for me.

>>15898075
I too get upset when children don't act the way I want them to

>> No.15898215

>>15898160
>anal fixation
Who could have guessed

>> No.15898222

>>15898073
The right was actually the single biggest influence for me.

>>15898075
I too get upset when children don't act the way I want them to

>> No.15898230

>>15898215
You're a sick little boy, with sick thoughts.

>> No.15898245

>>15898222
>The right was actually the single biggest influence for me.
and it shows

>> No.15898270

>>15897601
>especially neitzche
Nietzsche is as political as Plato was. They're actually two of the most political on that list.

>> No.15898348

>>15898245
You can thank the left for pushing me out into the right as well. The left is the best at preventing someone from getting acquainted with anarchism.

>> No.15898359

>>15898348
if your mind is drawn to reactionary thought then we on the left didn't lose anything of value

>> No.15898397

>>15898359
yeah, the left has it's own reactionaries and they are the majority, it doesn't really need more of them

>> No.15898493

>>15898359
I wasn't really drawn to reactionary thought. The right is just better at anti-establishment libertarian (small l not big L) rhetoric.

>> No.15898970

>>15897568
Should at least have Locke and Hobbes in there, but other than that, it's pretty close.

>> No.15898971

>>15898397
false
reactionary thought is right wing by definition

>> No.15898977

>>15897606
Extremely based, fuck anarkiddies

>> No.15898982

Don't

>> No.15899081

>>15897527
Aside from the Greeks
>St. Augustine - City of God
>St. Thomas Aquinas - De Regno
>Niccolo Machiavelli - The Prince, Discourses on Livy
>Sir Robert Filmer - Patriarchia
>Joseph de Maistre - Generative Principle of Constitutions
>Carl Schmitt - The Concept of the Political
>Bertrand de Jouvenel - On Power
>Alasdair MacIntyre - Whose Justice? Which Rationality?
>C.A. Bond - Nemesis

>> No.15899090

>>15898971
i think he's probably using "reactionary" as an empty pejorative

>> No.15899185

>>15897568
>neoliberal basics that any westerner has been spoonfed since they were 5 years old

>leftism

>occasional based boy like Nietzsche

>no unabomber manifesto

>no anarchism (left or right)

>no stirner

>no fascism/communtiarian

2/10 mostly waste of time

>> No.15899214
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15899214

Skip everything everyones said. Anything mainstream can be summed up in a wikipedia article or learned from a youtube video. The only political theorists you should read are Chris Bond and Schmitt. Read Nemesis.

>> No.15899230

>>15897965
Is you know what metaphysics are?

>> No.15899231

>>15897698
>dismisses entire half of political compass (meme but you get the point)
>thinks they're clever and have a sustainable, accurate to reality, community not built on quicksand

enjoy your decadent hellscape after a civil war, i hope your dictator/central committee gets the trains to run on time this time

>> No.15899249

>>15897833
name ONE ideology that works exactly as it specifies without deviation in the real world

>> No.15899255

>>15899249
fascism

>> No.15899285

>>15899255
if the point is to be economically inefficient to the point of being incoherent and suicidal foreign policy cause "muh will to power" and nationalistic state. then ya it "worked"

>> No.15899313

>>15899230
Is You Is or Is You Ain't My Ontology?

>> No.15899337
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15899337

Why no one post the real one?

>> No.15899361

>>15899337
based community elder coming through

>> No.15899365

>>15899255
>isn't around anymore and the variants that stayed around the longest were the least fascist
try again

>> No.15899376

>>15899185
>anarchism
>stirner
>communtiarian
Pure meme tier

>> No.15899394

>>15899337
>no Dugin
Trash, even if you don't like him, he's very influential in Russia.

>> No.15899452

>>15898977
t. red fascist

>> No.15899628

>>15898133
waaa the jews if their so smart maybe they deserve to real. ressentiment cope

>> No.15899648

>>15899185
I tried to keep the list practical. That means ideologies that people who aren't shut-ins follow/ones that actual have some purchase on power. and ones that haven't been thoroughly thrashed or forgotten about. OP asked for an intro to political philosophy on a guide for posting on POL

>> No.15899654

>>15899394
Leninism is already rightwing socialism. Is it that Dugan also props up orthodoxy? Big deal. A more liberal Leninism. Who cares.

>> No.15899698
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15899698

>>15899648
>ideologies that people who aren't shut-ins follow
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! BUT THOSE AREN'T THE GOOD IDEOLOGIES!!!! THE GOOD ONES ARE WHERE YOU SEND A MAIL BOMBERINO TO THE HECKIN RESEARCHERS!!!

>> No.15899908

>>15899654
>rightwing socialism
What does that even mean

>> No.15900073

>>15897568
Dilate.

>> No.15900077

>>15899908
Ethno-socialism, like the Nordics do it.

>> No.15900089

>>15897527
The wall spares no-one.

>> No.15900095

>>15899654
>I haven't read Lenin
For a supposed Marxist I would have assumed you've read the theory.
>>15900077
Retard

>> No.15900115
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15900115

>>15899908
Vanguardism never seems to work out the way they say it will. We get an organized capitalist program and authoritarian state.

>>15900095
Only anon calls me a Marxist. And all I need to know about Lenin is the title of this little gem.

>> No.15900118

>>15900077
Nordic countries are free market capitalists.

>> No.15900159

>>15897568
Found the commie
You have to go back

>> No.15900175

>>15900115
Flaunting ignorance isn't attractive you pathetic bore.

>> No.15900197

>>15900175
Not much of a defense

>> No.15900214

>>15900197
You could have fooled me into believing you're a Marxist with your constant whining about the perceived discrimination you face over your race and gender. Incidentally Lenin wrote the seminal work on imperialism which you also inject into every shallow political post you shit out.

>> No.15900221
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15900221

>the amount of circlejerk in this thread of people that only want to have their opinions validated

>> No.15900447

>>15897762
isnt the concept of adhering to any coherent ideology engerently bootlicking though? it it essentially just saying you are cucking yourself to an ideology and therefor anarchism is a bootlick?

>> No.15900598

>>15897527
Is that Lauren Chen?

>> No.15900609

>>15900214
I’m whiter than Lenin...
>seminal
Yuck.
I donno how I reference him on imperialism without knowing.

>> No.15900671

>>15900609
Embarassing

>> No.15900818

>>15899452
Imagine being so assblasted that you try to call the only successful example of socialism fascist.

>> No.15900842

>>15899654
Dugin is very Orthodox. He's not a socialist at all and rejects historical materialism. Putting him as 'liberal' is also retarded, given the whole point of his philosophy is anti-liberalism.
>Who cares.
Dugin's political philosophy is already more relevant and influential than all of anarchist political philosophy. He has had no small effect on the direction of Russia, their activities in Ukraine and in Syria.

>> No.15900868

>>15900115
>And all I need to know about Lenin is the title of this little gem.
Yes because he exposed anarkiddies as the children that they are.

>> No.15900899

>>15900842
Okay. So a statist Tolstoy?
> already more relevant and influential than all of anarchist political philosophy
State backing does that.

>>15900868
>to be slaughtered and kept from the socialist goal for another thousand years

>> No.15900940

>>15899365
North Korea still exists to this day you retard, and I can assure you there is an absolutely negligible amount of statue-toppling and chimping out going on over there

>> No.15900959

>>15900940
North Korea isn't fascist you brain dead moron. They're far closer to Stalinism than anything else.

>> No.15900983

>>15900899
Dugin is more of a combo of Heidegger, Schmitt, and Evola. He would argue that Tolstoy was a product of Western influence, and does not comprise a true Russian philosophy.

>> No.15901001

>>15900983
>Dugin is more of a combo of Heidegger, Schmitt, and Evola.
Sounds like a ball of unintelligible bullshit.

>> No.15901018
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15901018

>>15900983
Sounds like he’s the one with a lot of outside influences

>> No.15901081

>>15901001
His Heideggerian tendencies are pretty clear, even if Heidegger himself is not. His mysticism is primarily his connection with Evola, but he mostly keeps that compartmentalized from his main political philosophy. That shit is still weird though.

>> No.15901103

>>15900899
>State backing does that.
So close to making the right conclusion.

>> No.15901104

>>15900214
>You could have fooled me into believing you're a Marxist
Here's what you're missing, troglodyte. Marx was an important economist who understood the nature of capitalism to an extent beyond more than anyone in his era. That doesn't mean those in the socialist tradition who have absorbed Marx (and Proudhon et al) and have done better, like Bakunin and Kropotkin, are somehow 'less than' the tankies who have claimed his name, achieved autocratic power, and perverted it. Use your head.

>> No.15901141

>>15899214
De Maistre > Schmitt
but yea Bond is good

>> No.15901144

>>15901104
>Bakunin and Kropotkin are less than the tankies
FTFY

>> No.15901436

>>15897568
A good selection.

>> No.15901441

>>15897527
frankly don't.
adopted philosophies are poison.

develop your own philosophy.

>> No.15901715

just mash random political phrases together and pretend you believe in that
>anarcho-nativist-cyber theocracy with Cambodian characteristics

>> No.15901993

>>15897527
Burnham's "The Machiavellians"

thank me later.

>> No.15902069
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15902069

>>15900598
Yeah.

Where did all these alt-right media people come from? I'm sure I'd never heard of them a couple of years ago, but now they pop up all the time.

>> No.15902103

>>15897527
Migth is rigth by Rangnar Redbeard is the only thing you need to read. Everything else is irrelevant.

>> No.15902121

>>15902069
They've always been around.

>> No.15902126

>>15902103
Meme tier

>> No.15902156

>>15902126
Only through the christcuck lens.

>> No.15902166

>>15902156
Nope, it's just meme tier all around. Literally 0 influence.

>> No.15902173

>>15902166
>something is a meme if it has no influence

>> No.15902179

>>15902173
Yes, unironically. All good ideas have at least some influence.

>> No.15902202
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15902202

here you go my dear anon.

>> No.15902217

>>15897568
>Hegel - Philosophy of Right
Remove Marx Capital and Lenin and add Locke, Hobbes and Machiavelli

>> No.15902552

Straight to Marx bro

>> No.15902705

>>15902069
Reactionaries, simple as

>> No.15902732

>>15902202
>>15899337
>>15899081

>all these gigantic lists

How do you guys manage to complete these? do you read summaries? is it a process spanning multiple years?

>> No.15902777

Read the Ethnic Phenomenon to counterbalance all of the primitive, superstitious class analysis from Marxists and Anarchotardists

>> No.15903063

>>15900077
Where's the ethnic element of scandi social democracy?

>> No.15903072

>>15902732
It's just wishful thinking

>> No.15903288

>>15897676
This is an okay list, currently reading The Federalist Papers now. I think that the middle is organized wrong though. I'm not far enough to confidently revise it yet, but it should probably be something like
Hobbes->Locke->Kant->Rosseau->Montesquieu->Smith->Burke->Paine->Federalist->De Tocqueville
The most bizarre choice is having Burke after Paine when Rights of Man (1791) is entirely a response to Burke.

Frankly the major problem with this chart is that it focuses entirely on Political Theory without any of the supporting texts. I don't think that it can be properly understood without reading the Bible before Augustine and a familiarity with history, especially Greco-Roman history and culture, is necessary at least through the enlightenment.

>> No.15903504

>>15897584
Based

>> No.15903638

>>15903063
It was there before we lost the war. We're a occupied nation now

>> No.15903718

>>15900159
found the moron

>> No.15903791

>>15900095
>>15900118
>>15903063
The nordic system is the closest example of ethno-socialism in the current year, due to the relative homegeneity of the population. It is in decline though, since socialism is incompatible with multiculturalism.

>> No.15903792

>>15897527
Talmud

>> No.15903982
File: 65 KB, 333x499, b_jouvenel_on_power.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15903982

>>15899337
>the only one that mentions de Jouvenel is the namefagging lesbian that nobody likes, obliquely, in a list she didn't make
What a world. But I'm seconding this just so all you retards know - de Jouvenel's On Power is the most important work on political philosophy that very few people have read, and even fewer understand. Wanna have your mind fucking blown? Read it. People say there's no good political philosophy written beyond the 19th century, but that's because nobody has read this guy.

>> No.15904989

>>15900447
No, because in anarchism you are free to apply your variant. No so with statist ideologies.

>> No.15905028
File: 61 KB, 399x600, 61lfvlc5aTL._AC_UL600_SR399,600_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15905028

>>15897527
start by understanding where you are (liberalism), and its relation to other places.

>> No.15905093

>>15897548
I'd start the Prince with a focus on chapter 15 to really emphasize the break between the ancients and the moderns. Then go to The Republic of Plato to be sure.

>> No.15905681

>>15905028
the issue is simply that liberalism is so naturalized through its hegemonic cultural and economic dominance these last centuries that one must start before it work up to its historical conception and implementation while keeping a keen eye on other modes of governance, or the student of political philosophy will be unable to not see in all other systems liberalism and in liberalism all other systems