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/lit/ - Literature

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15859243 No.15859243[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Is he right?

>> No.15859246

>>15859243
yes but he's also a faggot

>> No.15859263

>I am a punk because I agree with the political positions of multinational corporations and establishment politicians.
Hmm.

>> No.15859265

>>15859243
>>15859243
>>15859246
>free market capitalism
>globalization
>pro-technological abuse

How are these right wing in any way?

>> No.15859267

>>15859243
Pretty much, Yeah

>> No.15859268

No
Right wing thought is no more about conformity than left wing; it isn’t about tradition.
For it to be punk all it would require is for the general status quo to discourage traditio, which it vehemently does, at least in the modern west

>> No.15859283

If the statues quo was to believe in left wing ideals would it not be punk to be a right winger?

>> No.15859285

>>15859265
>How are these right wing in any way?
everything I disagree with is right wing, idiot

>> No.15859289

>>15859243
Isn't a technological hellscape ruled by massive corporations that have essentially dissolved the concept of nations the farthest thing from conservativism there is

>> No.15859295

>>15859243
Punk was a tool of the corporate world, its a fashion statement that sounds like rebellion, but is really about promoting the values of big corporations.

Really free individuals are rare and do not move in herds.

>> No.15859298

>>15859289
See >>15859285

>> No.15859305

>>15859243
Cyberpunk is super fucking self-defeating in that it's main appeal (though its authors will deny this) is its aesthetic. The aesthetic is an extension of the corruption of humanity and the corporations responsible. So it is inherently both for and against both sides. This is why you have the "Starship Troopers effect" with Blade Runner and Deus Ex; everyone understands the general messages and warnings, but deep down almost everyone still wants a Joi waifu or badass augments. Though it's a meme, burgerpunk is hilariously much more competent at getting messages across without undermining them.

>> No.15859312

>>15859283
If the status quo is leftist then you have to obey. You can only resist the status quo if it's right wing.

>> No.15859313

>>15859243
>Jamal

>> No.15859347

>>15859243
What is this retard smoking? their the biggest puritans and infighters and are discouraged of any type of “progress” or “ma rebel LARP” as long has it is approved by the statues quo, they don’t care as long has they get their HTR. Everything they believe in is already common practice, compete relativity and social domination of liberal conformity backed up by powerful people that befits both ends of the spectrum. Unless this person is some liberal LARPING as some anarchist or a actual anarchist, I don’t know; they tend to me metaphysically similar. One is an egoist without the anarchist theory and one is the real leftist who opposes ANY hierarchy or concentrated power. Fuck this left and right shit seriously, it sums up a persons complex ethics to that of a insulting strawman.

>> No.15859359

>>15859243
left wing this right wing this
just shut up with your retarded made up bullshit

>> No.15859365

>>15859243
Fucking Americans and their shitforbrains politics.
Go back.

>> No.15859374

>>15859243
>Cyberpunk by definition is leftist. The term "punk" means to be deviant, defiant, or against.
How can one be deviant, defiant, or against anything in a civilization or culture which embraces deviancy and defiance to the civilization and culture? Defining "punk" in this way, while claiming that you can have a society based on it (that is, a Cyberpunk society) is contradictory.
>Right wing thought is about conformity/indoctrination
No, it's not about conformity. Right wing thought wouldn't suggest you 'conform' to a group that preaches wrong or immoral values; it is about helping the group, but that's not the same as conformity.
>free markets/capitalist oppression
I could say that nationalized, controlled markets are oppression of individualist ambitions. The problem here is that the poster is preaching 'freedom' without understanding what their own definition of freedom really is.
>defending national values/control over the psyche of the public
How is this control over the psyche of the public? What if the public chooses to support national values?
>globalization/exploitation of the developing world
I've never heard a true "right winger" preach globalization.
>the promise of technology/the abuse of technology in the name of profit
This is not a right wing line of reasoning. Do National Socialists and Monarchists promise technology in the name of profit? How exactly would they be profiting?

>> No.15859387

>>15859374
Fuck off nazi.

>> No.15859390
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15859390

>>15859243
"punk is right wing" - Johnny Ramone

>> No.15859392

>>15859243
Nazis were true anarchists

>> No.15859402

>>15859263
Leftism goes beyond just waving rainbow flags. This is such a weak take, and yet I see it everywhere.

>> No.15859409

>>15859402
I don't care what you think "leftism" is. I care what the people who actually have political power who call themselves "leftists" think "leftism" is.

>> No.15859411

>>15859402
Leftism is anarchists and syndicates, not authoritarian statist tankie bullshit with the word “people” in the title.

>> No.15859414

>>15859387
Care to refute anything I said?

>> No.15859419

>>15859414
I was being facetious.

>> No.15859423

>>15859263
Multinational corporations believe in global capitalism, you drooling imbecile.

>> No.15859425

>>15859411
Leftism without tankies is an obscure ideology with little to past practical history

>> No.15859430

>>15859423
And their drooling followers call themselves leftists and think they're rebelling against the system.

>> No.15859431

>>15859265
Those things are the very definition of rightwing, dumbfuck.

>> No.15859443

>>15859430
You wish, bootlicker.

>> No.15859448

>>15859409
If you think global corporations can be called "leftist" because they change their twitter avi to a rainbow flag every june then you fell for the propaganda hard. You're the exact type of mindless consoomer you think you're making fun of.

>> No.15859450

>>15859443
Lol, okay.

>> No.15859454

>>15859430
Stop confusing liberals with leftists retard

>> No.15859463

>>15859448
>>15859454
>Let me argue with you about theory and refuse to acknowledge that the way these words are currently used in politics has nothing to do with said theory.
No thanks.

>> No.15859464

>>15859431
get out of your bubble. "free" market capitalism is jew shit. globalization is jew shit. modern technology is jew shit.

>> No.15859482

>>15859390
IM A NAZI BABY

>> No.15859486

>>15859448
They are financing leftism and ideologically promoting leftists, that makes them at minimum allies of leftists. Why is the left wing so ashamed of this state of affairs? Why are you so afraid of change and corporations finally listening to your voice? lol

>> No.15859487

>>15859312
fuck both these kinds of status quo

>> No.15859491

>>15859463
What the fuck you what from us to say? That Trump is a fascist and MAGA boomers are Nazis?

>> No.15859493

>>15859425
Thats a compete oxymoron, they both split apart for that very reason - what is the problem with working in communes with limited authority, while YOUR telling me that I should be mindful of empiricist arguments for a totalitarian bandit ideology?

>> No.15859496

>>15859265
The right tends to support capitalism and free markets. Is this news to you?

>> No.15859500

>>15859243
If irony were rocket fuel there's enough in that post for a trip to mars

>> No.15859504

>>15859243
the left are desperate to pretend they are the TRUUUUU threat to the establishment. they will no matter what try to pretend they are SOOO much different from their neoliberal counterparts. or the socdems. or whoever. commies/marxists/whatever else share the exact same moral premises with those in power. the only fucking difference is how to get the end result of atheistic materialist soul-killing comfort and egoistic indulgence until the nihil is accomplished and we all fade into the abyss of pure absence, sundering even matter.

no one fucking cares about your retarded strawmen of pretending capitalist business owners are all ghoulish sociopaths. maybe a few? but the vast majority are normal people and because of the post-WW2 establishment, they have been brought up with the exact value and moral prescription you have as well, which is liberal.
>b-b-buh we dont share the same moral basis!!
absolute horseshit. every single liberal says communism is the ideal society, they just can't envisage it happening. they'd sure like to try with incremental reforms, and system schemes.

none of you are banned from the public space, social media (where a lot of discourse takes place), payment processors, banks, any other utility that is necessary for political engagement. none of you are prohibited from engagement in the academy, in fact you practically control whole sectors (like sociology and other hack ideological liberal arts). you can do literally anything you want, and the state doesn't fucking care. the corporations pander to you. your historical figures are either A) misguided protagonists (trotsky, lenin), B) idealized but again, misguided, heroes (che guevara), C) respected """"philosophers"""" (lmao, like marx) who are taught in every university and college and at worst, D) nutty killers who prove the erosion of the radiant utopia that was supposed to be communism (stalin, mao, etc).

>> No.15859505

>>15859491
Lol, I'm right wing. I think maybe you didn't get what I meant.

>> No.15859508

>>15859463
okay let me guess.
You think democrats are "leftists". And you think big global corporations are "leftists".
Do you have any connection to reality still, or do you think the "marxist jew" is why youre not a trad warrior king conservative?

Democrats can be said to be centrists at most, and actual social democrats, socialists, communists and anarchists are leftist. The neoliberal is like a social democrat AT MOST.

>> No.15859519

>>15859390
https://youtu.be/6AO9-HWiYT4

>> No.15859520

>>15859508
I let them call themselves whatever they want. If they don't fit the term on a theoretical level I don't care. I have no investment in making sure that I use the term "left" in an ideologically pure manner. All of these people can go fuck themselves.

>> No.15859522

>>15859493
>totalitarian bandit ideology
amazing, is this a common phrase used against tankies by anti-tankies?

>> No.15859531

>>15859463
Why do you think it's in the interest of multinational corporations to dismantle global capitalism?

>> No.15859533

>>15859464
Call it whatever you want. When you vote for rightwing politicians, that's what you get.

>> No.15859540

>>15859508
Why are you so afraid of change bro? Why are you leftists so scared that corporations are adopting explicitly left wing ideologies? Are you really anti-progress?

>> No.15859546

>>15859504
Fuck off, Jewbag.

>> No.15859552

>>15859540
Because their fucking horrified that they turned into a product by the CHAD liberal. a form of expression ready to be made and sold, and that’s fact to an extent.

>> No.15859553

>>15859493
>communes
Because I don't want to be a part of the shitshow of discussing what are we going to do about mad dogs in the town or shit like that. I want a government who works behind the scenes without much intervention so I am free to pursue whatever the fuck I want. And with these hippy dippy communes any imperialist country will rape you my comrade. Just like it happened in the past many times.

>> No.15859557

>>15859508
Idpol took over the left bro

>> No.15859558

>>15859504
Youre fucking retarded, cyberpunk is literally against neoliberal global finance world running amok.
Youre so delusional you think Marx is mainstream? Jesus fuck, do you think neoliberals and Marx share viewpoints? No they fucking dont, neoliberals is just capitalism with some humane morals tagged on, while marxism is anticapitalist. How difficult is this to understand, mouth breather?

>> No.15859573

>>15859558
BLM has admitted to being a marxist organization. It's on their website. Nearly every corporation on the planet currently supports BLM. Ergo, they support a Marxist organization. Why are you afraid of big corporations supporting the left? What are you afraid of?

>> No.15859577

>>15859504
Take your head out of your ass. People in western countries absolutely hate communists. What the fuck you're talking about?

>> No.15859580

>>15859504
This, based.

>> No.15859584

>>15859540
>>15859552
Because a corporation owned by a capitalist, cannot be made anti capitalist. What is so difficult to understand? Brainlets like you see the virtue signalling and think actual change has happened, while no material conditions or resources has been distributed differently. Thats literally what neoliberalism is, and its why so many fucking leftists hate neoliberals.

>> No.15859600

>>15859359
/thread

>> No.15859604

Imagine thinking the most pressing and undue influence that global corporations exert on society is homo acceptance or women's rights, and that opposing these things is a more meaningful form of resistance to these corporations than wanting to dismantle the entire mode of production itself.

>> No.15859617

>>15859604
None is dismantling shit but "institutional racism". If leftists actually targeted anything of value I'd support them desu.

>> No.15859619

>>15859573
Just visited their website and found no result for "marx".
Why would global corporations support marxism, an ideology whose followers literally say "eat the rich" as an inside joke?

>> No.15859621

The Left, as it is right now, promotes conformity/indoctrination, oppression (of speech, specifically), defending GLOBAL values/control of the psyche of the public, globalization, the promise of technology/abuse of technology in the name of profit -- SO LONG AS the corporations agree with their politics; very evident by the recent BLM kowtowing.

I dare any so-called "punk" to don a MAGA hat as a sign of rebellion.

>> No.15859622

>>15859584
No, see >>15859573
Why don't communists understand the dialectic? A thesis (Marxist BLM) and its antithesis (capitalist corporation) has become a synthesis (capitalist corporations forming an alliance with Marxist BLM). Why are you scared of progress bro?

>> No.15859628

>>15859504
>the left are desperate to pretend they are the TRUUUUU threat to the establishment
The capitalist doesn't care if being woke entails waving a rainbow flag or the american flag, so criticizing either of these things is not a meaningful challenge of their power. In contrast, wanting a society where these capitalists don't even exist as a class, absolutely is.

>> No.15859632
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15859632

>Leftist revolutionary impulse gets swallowed up and defanged by capital yet again
You hate to see it. It happened to the boomers and now it's happening to you. There is no through, the only way out is back.

>> No.15859633

>he thinks punk was ever something more than an aesthetic that could be cheaply mass produced and sold.

>> No.15859636

>>15859553
Guess what, you’re not a leftist, just another statist with the word, “people” in the title ruled by a sovereign bureaucrats, the congreve dissonance is real. Democracies aren't run by the people in that type of society, but they make you think they are. They are run ultimately by a network of elites in "roundtable groups" and their successors (Bilderberg, CFR, Trilaterals, etc) where long-term policy decisions are made irrespective of western democratic voters beliefs. These are then filtered down to the elite-controlled foundations/ngos, media, education, government bureaucracy, judiciary, etc. Many members of these groups also attend the roundtable groups, so they are all on the same page. Partially, the elites will force things through overtly with overt lies or omissions, other times power petitions itself by making you believe (through media and education) what power believes, thus making it seem like there is no powers that be and that it was all a natural state of affairs and you really voted.
>>15859558
Shut the fuck you brainwashed faggot, I CAN GO ON YOUTUBE RIGHT NOW AND WATCH HOURS OF GARBAGE, FROM MARX, learn about his stupid fucking book at the many capitalist universities , and are allowed to organize and form whatever larp shit you want.
>marxism is anticapitalist
And guess what marx thought was a good “communist” society was? the french communal, basically anarchistic view. Get your autistic tankie shit OUT.

>> No.15859652

>>15859622
I visited their website and found no link between BLM and marxism. Prove this or youre another disinformationalist.

>> No.15859654

>>15859628
Remember CHAZ retard? they let you faggots have it.

>> No.15859658

>>15859633
Only this.

>> No.15859664

>>15859628
Your constant inviting is doing all the work for porkie, kek.

>> No.15859686
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15859686

>>15859243
Leftists, generally, seek utopia for all. Cyberpunk, as a concept, can only be viewed as leftist if interpreted as being completely ironic and as lacking any sort of beauty.
Where I believe our facebook friend has made his mistake is his assertion that the "punks" of cyberpunk are all actively trying to dismantle and create a better system, that they will all possess his own projected sense of virtue and desire to live in a different world.
What cyberpunk actually creates, in my view, is a scenario in which the holders of power in a revolution have already won, and done so beyond any feasible possibility of violent uprising from the masses, such that actual direct class struggle/movement becomes almost completely non-existent. They no longer see a need in mutual cooperation or likability. This creates a vacuum of power, order, and meaning in the lower class, like a low level relative anarchy. The resulting image is one of crime, violence, hedonism, nihilism, and all the other shit cyberpunk actually possesses.
There may be some in this lower society who view the upper class and megacorps as defeatable forces, but most have accepted their rule as status quo, along with the independent lives they live at the bottom. Most punks, in cyberpunk, are looking after themselves in a system where nobody really gives a shit whether they live or die. They aren't firebombing corporations or protesting in the streets anymore, that was before the megacorps merged with local governments and saturation bombed their own people in the corporate wars.

I believe, unlike the leftist, that there can be beauty in an unironic interpretation of cyberpunk. That it can be viewed in a way other than just a warning. The relative anarchy of the high tech, low life of a cyberpunk can be liberating when viewed vicariously. I understand why somebody might honestly say they would want to be a cyberpunk unironically. They live in danger, with problems and conflicts completely foreign to our own predictable, structured modern lives. There is some glory in actually being a cyberpunk, despite the harsh reality of it depicts.
I don't believe that this is a leftist sentiment, however. Cyberpunk is undoubtedly dystopian, but what it can bring out in humans in both evil and glory can be viewed as genuinely beautiful in a way, not just as a warning for those living in the present of what might come.

So, in general, I believe that our facebok friend is projecting a bit, and in some ways is underestimating the extents of cyberpunk. He's assuming his pre-cyberpunk ideology of revolution and class revolt will be amplified in the world of cyberpunk. I view it as the opposite, that cyberpunk exists after those types have all failed and his leftist idea of revolution has long been abandoned by the lower society due to the sheer power differences and the passing of generations viewing that as the status quo.

>> No.15859689

>>15859636
Okay retard, I can go on youtube and watch a bunch of reactionary shit like Crowder, idiot Peterson with his "order is washing your penis" or fucking Ben Shapiro the self loathing zionist. Youtube content doesnt mean shit, its literally where fringe content is found instead of mainstream media.
Yeah Marx was anticapitalist you mong, and Lenin and Stalin created a socialist state, what do you think the USSR stands for, motherfucking 20 IQ window licker? Then they were supposed to progress to communism after going through industralisation, but that was never realized due to corruption, politics, Stalin etc.
Im not even a tankie, so you will have to find another excuse to dismiss my arguments, you literal pea brain.

>> No.15859704

>>15859621
>The Left, as it is right now, promotes conformity/indoctrination, oppression (of speech, specifically), defending GLOBAL values/control of the psyche of the public, globalization, the promise of technology/abuse of technology in the name of profit -- SO LONG AS the corporations agree with their politics
Remove the word global and this is a perfect description of the right.
>don a MAGA hat as a sign of rebellion.
You have the presidency, the senate, and arguably the supreme court. How exactly are you being a rebel?

>> No.15859705

>>15859632
Difference is that the same leftists of today will blame boomers, white people, males, or whatever other group that definitely isn't porky that finances their groups.