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/lit/ - Literature

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15855641 No.15855641 [Reply] [Original]

Was he a good writer or just an ideas man?

>> No.15855645

both

>> No.15855648

He would get along in /soc/ pretty okay as a shut-in. Or be a /lit/ project manager for a fantasy series.

>> No.15857788

>>15855641
Ideas man.

>> No.15857841

Neither. With complete sincerity, and not because he said nigger, or any other ideological reason.
It is a half-baked mystique based on his much too-cryptic personal fears. His protagonists often go insane, commit suicide, or remain impersonal narrators throughout. Nothing is gleaned, no human element beyond superficial terror is explored, even the action is restricted to fleeing or passively watching a monster.
It really has nothing going for it, not even how it is written. Non-Euclidean geometry? You might as well right, the not-blue sky.
It is superficially different, yet hollow, generic, and that's why people like it, because they can project their own thing onto it. It has all the elements of an exploitable image.

>> No.15857852

He was far from an ideas man. All of his stories follow a formula.
>Let me tell you how I became terrified of ___.
>Some weird spooky shit was going down in this backwards part of the world.
>I set out to investigate it
>There was some weird occult shit going on
>and an Italian or a gypsy tried to talk to me!
>my investigation led me to a real spooky place!
>then I saw a monster! or something collapsed! or both!
>I shudder to think of it now and pray my sanity will hold fast

He's genuinely good at writing gothic fiction. All of his stories drip with his unique tone and his interests. He had very few actual ideas.

>> No.15857863

both, but he wrote genre-fiction which means it's shit at some level

>> No.15858012

What did he mean by this? (from one of his letters)

>…I am forever dreaming of strange barren landscapes, cliffs, stretches of ocean, & deserted cities with towers & domes…All this dreaming comes without the stimulus of cannabis indica. Should I take that drug, who can say what worlds of unreality I might explore…

>> No.15858089

>>15855641
Very formulaic, unable to develop characters (he knew this and admitted it), I still read all his works and enjoyed them. It's good enough for me.

>> No.15858107

He's a pariah, just like all other genre fiction "writers." If you ever publish a piece (and I do mean piece) of genre fiction, it's pretty much the kiss of death as far as real writers are concerned. You're consigned to the kiddie table from then on, and will forever dwell in that ghetto. Hacks simply aren't invited to the parties. What serious artiste would ever address an envelope to a name like King or Steel or Brown? Well, I do have one story. I once attended a cocktail party in the French Riviera hosted by a indomitable poetess. Several of the big name novelists were in attendance, including many of my fellow Oxford alumni. The mood was merry until a certain hack (in)famous for writing tentacle monster stories decided to gatecrash the villa. He was no doubt emboldened by a recent prize he won for (wait until you hear this) a cosmic horror gothic fiction. Sorry, just let me catch my breath. The moment this lost soul stepped under the veranda the entire party went dead silent and everyone turned to look at him with a single united look of disgust. The poetess, ever the angel, swooped in an engaged the poor fraud in his level of conversation. The talentless nobody was already sopping drunk, of course. No doubt he'd needed courage to even approach the door, and so decided to "party rock" from a flask in his tiny rundown rental car outside. She graciously asked him if he was working on a new squid novel, and he replied (and I'll remember these words until the day I die), "No, a horrifying tale about fishmen." The entire villa erupted in laughter and the sad little nothing was so mortified he simply slunk away. Only then did we return to our shimmering conversations about the craft. Who do these people think they are, really?

>> No.15858138
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15858138

>>15855641
when authoring /sffg/-core, you need only be an ideas man with decent prose
Literally my goal in life desu

>> No.15858149

>>15857841
But Lovecraft fans on /lit/ keep telling me there are actual themes to explore in his book.

>> No.15858230

>>15858107
Very good post. Genre writers are truly some of most embarrassing specimen you can encounter when walking down fiction street. Let us not even talk about the comic artists

>> No.15858276

>>15855641

I remember reading the famous Cthulhu story to get a taste and being disappointed. Basically the story goes: >Hey I feel like I'm going insane. I want to travel. Oh shit occultists, oh shit octopus. Luckily the mind melting octopus didn't eat me. End.

>> No.15858318

>>15857841
>>15857852

Not really what I meant when I said he's a ideas man.
The ideas are more about the concepts that came from his work, the whole Cthulhu Mythos.
The writer part is about the actual content and execution of these ideas.

>> No.15858360

>>15858012
dude weed lmao

>> No.15858368

>>15858107
>poetess
is that like a girl that fucks poets?

>> No.15858373

>>15858276
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA IT'S PURPLE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>> No.15858417

>>15858107
Bold of this pasta to assume poetry isn't a current laughing stock

>> No.15858426

>>15858417
Prose fiction is just a phase, you'll soon understand.

>> No.15858543

>>15858426
>Prose fiction
You mean pseud literature

>> No.15858636

>>15858318
the mythos is overated by redditors, it's not a super important part of his work

>> No.15858664

all writers are ideas men.

>> No.15858718

>>15858318
Regardless of that he still was the one that started it all, it might've taken other, possibly better and more creative writers to expand on it, but he still came up with the stuff.

>> No.15859395

>>15857841
In all fairness, thats the point about Gothic fiction, if you want someone to describe 1860's Paris and her citizens in ornate detail, getting deep into their histories, personal fears and personality traits, Lovecraft is the wrong person.

>> No.15859420

I personally love his prose, I find it very unique and dream-like.

>> No.15859432

>>15859420
Also I'm curious: How do you guys feel about Clark Ashton Smith? I prefer his prose to Lovecraft's.

>> No.15859452

>>15857841
You've no idea what you're talking about; The Shadow Out of Time, At the Mountains of Madness and The Shadoe Over Innsmouth all discusd the benefits of humanism, transhumanism and post humanism and the possible costs of each. Each story examines human relationships with other species, possible similarities and differences and the cost and profit of joining with them or fighting with them. They also examine how human-alien relationships may work over both short and long periods and how we could integrate into their cultures.

The Thing on the Doorstep, Herbert West Reanimator, Cool Air and From Beyond examine the uses of science and whether the potential dangers of research can justify potential gains that happen from it.

There's more themes present, obviously, but those always stuck out the most to me.

>> No.15859510

>>15857852
>All of his stories follow a formula
That's just his most famous works. Dream cycle and his early works don't follow that.

>> No.15859515

>>15858107
Snap. yep, this is going in my kek folder

>> No.15859523

>>15858107
>Hacks simply aren't invited to the parties
Are you saying he didn't have correspondence with other prominent authors? That's just wrong.

>> No.15859530

>>15859523
>B-but he had friends who were also hacks
Ngmi

>> No.15859535

>>15858368
Exactly. >>15858107 actually went to a thematic whorehouse to, probably, participate in a orgy. Fucking while reading romantic poetry out loud.

>> No.15859551

>>15858149
Yes, there are. But they are explored shallowly.

>> No.15859588

>>15859432
Nice prose here and there but I find the images conveyed lacking. There's less energy in his work compared to A Shadow Over Innsmouth

>> No.15859602

>>15858107
Isn't a horror genre writer one of the only people to get a Penguins Classic publication while still alive?

>> No.15859644

>>15859432
I prefer his stories to Lovecraft's. They usually have more interesting settings, which aren't pretensious or autistically detailed. The arguments aren't repetitions of previous stories and are somewhat creative. And the prose doesn't intend to be "scientifically accurate", but more "romantic", which, in fantasy stories, is nice.

>> No.15859649

>>15859602
Ligotti isn't even that great. I read The Frolic because I'd just bought that book in question. It smelled of hack writing.

>> No.15859656

>>15859602
Thomas Ligotti. I'm not really sure if he is the only one.

>> No.15859693

>>15859649
Even if I'm not a fan of horror or a nihilist I liked how he builds the philosophical subtext in the stories of "Grimscribe" with the imagery and analogies. Even that I don't enjoyed much.

>> No.15859702

>>15859602
who would that be?

>> No.15859719

>>15858107
I find it fun to imagine a distinguished and accomplished author coming here. Imagine some old blue-blood who graduated with honors sitting in his study as he pulls out a laptop and starts shitposting all over the place

>> No.15859724

>>15859702
See >>15859649 and >>15859656

>> No.15859791

>>15858664

Unless they're missing a penis!!!

>> No.15859804

>>15859649
You read his worst story and wrote him off? Read Grimscribe instead and Teatro Grottesco, If you have any interest that is.

>> No.15859844

>>15859656
There is Pynchon, Delilo, Morrissey and Ligotti in there, who are the other six?

>> No.15859921

>>15859649
>i read one part of a short story writer's collection so i know all their work
Retard

>> No.15860081

>>15859921
Are you a NEET?

>>15859804
I do have an interest, but I find his fanboys a little off-putting.

>> No.15860131

>>15859844
There's also Penelope Lively.

>> No.15860411

>>15860081
The books less than 400 pages, that should take 1-2 days to read.

>> No.15860444

>>15859644
I agree, definitely a strong romantic undertone and appreciation of the female form in his work. Generally more of a hazy, dream-like atmosphere as opposed to dreadful and nihilistic. Some stories are pretty humorous as well, like the one where he has sex with the queen of toads. I think "the abominations of Yondo" and "the tale of Zatampra Zeros" are my favorites so far. Also liked "a platonic entanglement" more than I'd like to admit.

>> No.15860575

>>15859644
>anything with sex
nah, he's trash

>> No.15860774

>>15860081
>Ligotti
>Fanboys
Where are these people? I don't get to discuss his stories with anybody unless its for TCATHR. Only anons I met were those who couldn't get past Purity of all stories.

>> No.15861348

>>15860575
Threre's few sex in Ashton's stories. Although, most of his characters don't act like asexuals, unlike Lovecraft's.