[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 387 KB, 351x498, gewse.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1583124 No.1583124 [Reply] [Original]

so you guys are so hatin' on science fiction and fantasy...

what do you consider a GOOD genre?

>> No.1583129

Fuck you.

>> No.1583128

transgression

>> No.1583130

science fiction and fantasy

>> No.1583144
File: 192 KB, 500x530, girls_aloud_real.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1583144

There is no such thing as genre. There are good books, and there are bad books. That's all.

>> No.1583156

HEART OF A DOG IS SCIENCE FICTION AND YET EVEN THE HATERS OF SCI-FI ENJOY IT.

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

>> No.1583164
File: 50 KB, 333x500, the-new-space-opera.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1583164

>>1583144
Whatever you say buddeh.

>> No.1583175

Nobody hates sci-fi and fantasy unless they're 19 and embarrassed that they used to read it

>> No.1583176

the problem is that i've never read a fantasy novel that is profound in any way

it might even incorporate themes of existentialism and other buzzword terms and the fact remains that most fantasy is built around the genre

sci-fi does have some great novels

>> No.1583184

>>1583176
This.

>> No.1583186

>>1583144
Genre is where you allow period and place to define the characters and story. More or less.

>> No.1583204
File: 69 KB, 433x706, Look-at-this-fucking-hipster.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1583204

Ignore the hipster trolls who are afraid to admit that they might like something that's the least bit mainstream. Sci-fi is fuckin' cool, and although I'm a little less interested in fantasy, there's some good stuff out there.

>> No.1583215

>>1583204
>guys the only reason you don't like eating mcdonalds is because it's too mainstream

>> No.1583234

>>1583156

Heart of a Dog is a satire.

>> No.1583256

>>1583184
>>1583176

Although I'm the guy who said there is no genre, I would actually agree with this. It's very hard to think of a fantasy novel which can be placed along with the scifi that Nabokov, for example, wrote. Detective fiction's been appropriated as a genre so often that the "highbrow" detective story is almost a cliche in itself.

For fantasy: Maybe Rider Haggard and Conan Doyle (The Lost World is maybe sort of fantasy, but I'm not convinced of my own argument).

Speaking of Conans, could Robert Howard be held up as an example of "good" fantasy literature? He was a hell of a writer.

Why has no-one like Pynchon or Coover ever appropriated the sword & sorcery genre for literary effect, I wonder?

>> No.1583274

>>1583256

Lord of the Rings, A Screenplay.

By William Burroughs.

EXT: NIGHT, THE SHIRE. A HOBBIT IS WATCHING FIREWORKS EXPLODE OUT OF A HANGED ORC'S ASS WHILE HIS GIRLFRIEND PIPPIN SUCKS HIS COCK. AS THE CORPSE ON THE TREE GIVES ITS FINAL DEATH SHIVER AND EJACULATES DOWN ITS OWN LEG, THE HOBBIT EJACULATES INTO PIPPINS FACE.

THEY TURN TO FACE A WIZARD.

GANDALF

Control is everything. This ring, this ring is an equation 0=2. NEED = ALL. It's the heart of everything. You need to take it. Take it to Mordor.

FRODO

Did you bring the junk?

[To be continued for 146 hours in director's cuts and special editions]

>> No.1583287

There is nothing wrong with science fiction or fantasy. The only real problem with those two in particular is that the genre has built in handicaps for writing. Because of the suspension of disbelief that is required to read them, writers do not need to work as hard. For example, if you dazzle the reader with interesting ideas, he may forget that the writing is on an 8th grade level (see Twilight). When you deal with concrete topics and locations, you have a harder time intriguing the reader. Therefore, writers need to work harder.

Generally the best books I have read were not 'genres' but simply books.

>> No.1583328

>>1583287

>Twilight is sci-fi.

>> No.1583333

Sci-fi/fantasy have potential to be great as literature because it allows the writer to shape the world to the story, rather than the other way around. Because of this, it is able to explore questions that other novels cannot, or at least not as in depth. While it is true that there are more great sci-fi works than fantasy, I believe that most fantasy writers write for the sake of escapism, rather than intellectual discourse as many of the great sci-fi writers do.

>> No.1583335

>>1583234
WHICH USES SCI-FI TO PORTRAY THE POINT.

>> No.1583360
File: 32 KB, 400x332, 1243309636920.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1583360

there's no such thing as a good genre

there are only good stories

>> No.1583366

>>1583274

You made me lol so hard I got tea all over my laptop, good show.

>> No.1583373 [DELETED] 

>>1583335
Capsguy, do you like fantasy/science fiction?

>> No.1583376

>>1583373
WELL, I PRETTY MUCH ONLY READ THINGS PRE WW-II, SO THERE'S NOT THAT MUCH ON OFFER FOR ME.

>> No.1583384

>>1583376
Anything by Lovecraft, Howard, Leiber, all kinds of pulps...

>> No.1583391

>>1583384
YEAH TRUE, BUT AT THE MOMENT I AM FOCUSING ON RUSSIAN WORKS AND /LIT/ ESSENTIALS. WHICH IS WHY I AM NOW READING JOURNEY TO THE END OF THE NIGHT

>> No.1583392

Niel Stephenson, Orson Scott Card.

Scifi is a part of who we are.

Technology as always been humanities greatest asset.

>> No.1583419

>>1583176
Fabulous, now that you've opened your verbal coffin on why you hate fantasy instead of just plain hating on fantasy, I'm curious, what fantasy novels have you read, and is profundity your only measure of a good novel?

>> No.1583424

>>1583391

How's Celine going for you CAPS GUY?

Death on the Installment plan is just as good if not better

>> No.1583443

>>1583176
Can't you accept the fact that people might actually read for the sole purpose of entertainment? I'll admit that fantasy novels are rarely profound, but I enjoy them nonetheless. If you don't enjoy the shit you read, it's just like fapping with your mind - a delusion.

>> No.1583584

>>1583424
THANKS MAN, WILL PROBABLY CHECK IT OUT THEN! I THOUGHT I'D CHECK OUT JOURNEY TO THE END OF THE NIGHT FIRST AS IT'S ALWAYS RECOMMENDED ON /LIT/. IT MAKES FOR A VERY FAST-PACED READ, WHAT WITH THE CONTINUAL CHANGE IN SETTING AND THE STYLE OF PROSE THROUGHOUT THE NOVEL (STARTED TODAY AND ALREADY ABOUT 40% THROUGH)

>> No.1583606

>>1583424
>>1583584
You'll find Death on the Installment Plan a bit slower of a read, because it's mostly just Ferdinand's story of growing up in Paris.
Personally, I think it's much funnier because of a kid's perspective that's still Ferdinand's sort of mean-spirited, farcical, and bizarrely satirical outlook on things. Celine's style is much more pronounced as well.
He was a fantastic storyteller, it's a damn shame his life makes him such a controversial author to discuss. I mention him outside /lit/, and the rare occasion someone knows who he is, the conversation either goes very quiet or ugly, and I have to explain I don't give a damn about the guy's life.

>> No.1583627

>>1583606
KIND OF LIKE BRINGING UP THE NAME MISHIMA IN JAPAN, A GUY THAT TRIED TO GET THE MILITARY TO REVOLT IN POST WW-II JAPAN. YEAH, AWKWARD.

BUT AFTER THIS I PLAN ON CONTINUING MY RUSSIAN ENDEAVOURS AND CHECKING OUT A FEW OTHER AUTHORS I'VE YET TO READ A LOT OF (SCHULZ'S 'STREET OF CROCODILES', MOBY-DICK, CONRAD'S 'THE SECRET AGENT', FEAR AND TREMBLING, BLOOD MERIDIAN, NAUSEA, AGAINST NATURE)

IT'S GOOD TO BE INTRODUCED TO AN AUTHOR AND LIKE HIS WORKS FROM THE GO, SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN WITH NABOKOV (LOLITA) AND MCCARTHY (THE ROAD, WHICH IS WHY I'M GOING POST WW-II JUST TO READ BLOOD MERIDIAN, AS ITS APPARENTLY HIS MAGNUM OPUS)