/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15801806]

Is there a word or term for something that’s conclusion negates its own premise? For example, if they ever found bigfoot on the show Finding Bigfoot, the show could no longer exist.

[Anonymous No.15801828]

>>15801806
the ouroboros is an ancient version of this phenomenon

[Anonymous No.15801846]

Would that be a "paradox"? I don't know, I'm kind of curious about this too, now that I think of it.

[Anonymous No.15801881]

self-defeating
counterproductive
incongruous
untenable
OP

[Anonymous No.15801890]

>>15801806
In logic it's implication or disjunction with premise negated. It could also be vacuous

[Anonymous No.15801958]

Thanks guys, close but not quite.

It would be a paradox, I’m just not sure what you would call it.

There are a lot of examples, and it’s a phenomenon/argument you see a lot. I just used a stupid example. The USSR and revolutionary governments generally are examples of entities where their stated end negates their own reason for being.

Conservatives use this argument a lot. Thomas Sowell used to critique the Obama administration and the Democratic party writ large on the grounds that their stated goal of resolving racial tensions and inequities would remove the reason many people vote for them, and thus they were not to be trusted to solve do so.

[Anonymous No.15801983]

>>15801958
The Bigfoot example was better.

[Anonymous No.15802044]

>>15801983
Yeah the bigfoot one is the simplest and most clear, but all these critiques are couched in the same logical principle I’m trying to identify.

[Anonymous No.15802047]

>>15801806
They wouldn't find big foot if they could and filthy liberals would not want a solution to the numerous grievances they purport to want to redress because of a LIVELIHOOD CONSCIENTIOUSNESS.

[Anonymous No.15802060]

>>15802047
Lol I’m not saying the argument is correct, but I’m trying to understand if it’s a defined logical principle.

[Anonymous No.15802137]

>>15801806
What is the ultimate bigfoot novel?

[Anonymous No.15802143]

>>15802060
>defined logical principle
Like what, contradiction?

[Anonymous No.15802198]

>>15801806
oxymoron

[Anonymous No.15802209]

>>15802198
That's a rhetorical device.

[Anonymous No.15802217]

>>15802143
maybe? i’m not educated in logic, hence the questiony by. another example:

socrates is striving towards wisdom

if one achieves wisdom, he is no longer striving towards wisdom

because socrates is defined by the condition of striving towards wisdom, if he achieves wisdom, he will no longer be socrates

bigfoot:

finding bigfoot is defined by the condition of finding bigfoot

if bigfoot is found, one can no longer be finding bigfoot

thus it will no longer be finding bigfoot

[Anonymous No.15802233]

>>15802217
wait, no it isn’t a contradiction:

finding bigfoot exists to find bigfoot
if bigfoot is found, one cannot be finding bigfoot
therefore finding bigfoot shall cease to exist

[Anonymous No.15802262]

>>15802233
>if bigfoot is found, one cannot be finding bigfoot
You must be joking. Think about that one second.

[Anonymous No.15802270]

>>15801958
debasing

[Anonymous No.15802279]

>>15802262
I think by found he means discover

[Anonymous No.15802281]

>>15801881
Self-defeating would be the one imo

[Anonymous No.15802289]

>>15802270
It doesn't work in English

[Anonymous No.15802298]

>>15802262
bigfoot being found is the act which concludes the process of finding bigfoot idiot

[Anonymous No.15802332]

>>15802298
who's bigfoot idiot?

[Anonymous No.15802369]

none of your examples are arguments or have premises or conclusions so there is no such logical principle.

they are examples of means-end reversal.

[Anonymous No.15802520]

>>15802332
sasquatch, yeti. BLM Big foot lives matter. Theyre tired of being misrepresented in the media. Theyve been discriminated against by privileged white people who exploit the sightings for economic gains; they cornered the market on bigfoot swag and refuse to support after school programs for bigfoot kids. Many complaints against forest rangers who they say pull them over without cause only to measure they're feet and force them to participate in plaster casting their own feet. Terrible times in the woods.

[Anonymous No.15802533]

>>15801828
Can someone explain the history of the symbol of the ouroboros to me. I'm a dimwit. Pls guys.

[Anonymous No.15802555]

>>15801806
How would finding bigfoot on a show called "Finding Bigfoot" be negating? It would be, actually, fulfilment. Is it "self-negating" for a character on the show to make or maintain friendships?

But the word you're likely looking for is something along the lines of a self-fulfilling prophecy, or determinate self-destruction. A paradox like having a contest with someone to see who can kill himself first: the punishment for losing is death.

[Anonymous No.15802564]

>>15802533

No. The symbol is older than writing and thus older than 'history'. So no one can give you the full story.
Other than that Wikipedia is your friend. I ain't typing all that shit nigga.

[Anonymous No.15802587]

>>15801806
Adjacent to this would be racketeering - if the initial problem at the heart of the enterprise were to be solved the enterprise, inherently self perpetuating, would no longer need exist

Rare instance where Finding Bigfoot, war and media coverage of muh raycism all converge

[Anonymous No.15802611]

>>15802369
based, thank you!!

[Anonymous No.15802801]

>>15801806
This is what Lacan’s about, or at least what most philosophers seem to get out of lacans work

[Anonymous No.15803961]

>>15802533
Orphic theogony, Egyptian theogony.
>So then, [Zeus] by engulfing Erikepaios (Ericepaeus) the Firstborn [Phanes], he had the body of all things in his belly, and he mixed into his own limbs the god's power and strength. Because of this, together with him, everything came to be again inside Zeus, the broad air and the lofty splendour of heaven, the undraining sea and earth's glorious seat, great Okeanos (Oceanus) and the lowest Tartara of the earth, rivers and boundless sea and everything else, and all the immortal blessed gods and goddesses, all that had existed and all that was to exist afterwards became one and grew together in the belly of Zeus. After he had hidden them all away, again into the glad light from his holy heart he brought them up, performing mighty acts."