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/lit/ - Literature


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15776736 No.15776736 [Reply] [Original]

Foucault & Butler
> sexual control is bad! We need to abolish these oppressive controls
> women are now literally just marketed as holes in music videos, a kid sees crazier porn than prostitutes once saw, unhealthy sexual fetishes are now supported as normal
Derrida
> lets deconstruct everything and get to the basis of it all!
> everything in the world loses it value, academia becomes masturbatory nihilism, all meaningful mythos just turn into products of a time period/bias etc.
Camus and Sartre
> what if everything is like.,.. absurd bro
> accelerates the fetishization of "the philosopher" and "existentialism" and turns it into more of an aesthetic choice rather than a serious discipline.

These are just the worst examples. The fact is, these sort of things are in every major continental figure. None of these people have ever had an idea that made the world better. They are simply obsessed with tearing down what is established simply because it is.

>> No.15776756

This isn’t universally true, I mean Husserl and ponty are used in neuroscience and AI development aren’t they?

>> No.15776767
File: 129 KB, 1000x432, retard smug.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15776767

>>15776736
>why yes, I've never read any major continental philosophers and watched chomsky talks on youtube

>> No.15776783

>>15776736
>They are simply obsessed with tearing down what is established simply because it is.

nothing human is immutable or infinite, faggot. the only thing that cannot and should not be challenged by man is God, which continental philosophy protects and upholds while analyticucks gave birth to the fedora movement

>> No.15776861

>>15776736
who are you quoting?

>> No.15776877

>>15776783
based butterfag imposter

>> No.15777020

>>15776877
Yeah i was ready to tell him to shut the fuck up and fuck off, but deece post by this lying sack of shit.

>> No.15777056

>>15776783
Dilate, tranny.

>> No.15777060

>>15776783
Fedoras are classy and stylish. Gods are not.

>> No.15777063

>>15777020
It was obviously a joke post, sperg.

>> No.15777074

>>15776736
This is the worst take on continental philosophy, as well as those specific contintenal philosophers, I've ever seen. OP is a fucking retard

>> No.15777079

>>15777056
>Why yes, dick is ALWAYS on my mind

>> No.15777097

>>15777074
it's obviously a joke

>> No.15777158

>>15777074
My only problem with the OP is that it assumes Continental philosophy does anything at all. Specifically this claim:

>It just tears down what was already made.

If that were true, it would actually have something to say and be worth talking about. The problem is that in reality it does not have anything to say. It is pure incoherent gibberish pushed by pseud con artists.

>> No.15777188
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15777188

>>15777063
Fuck you

>> No.15777205
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15777205

>>15776736
You obviously haven't read enough poststructuralism to understand why papa derrida saved the linguistic and semiotic world, so I don't wanna hear you give your cheek.

>> No.15777217

>>15777205
Deconstruction refers to the effort to expand third-world immigration into Western countries.

>> No.15777246

ITT retards who don't actually know anything about continental philosophy other than what they know from New England women misappropriating a handful of French poststructuralists to plaster an intellectual veneer on their lazy culture war moralism

>> No.15777277
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15777277

>ITT retards who don't actually know anything about continental philosophy other than what they know from New England women misappropriating a handful of French poststructuralists to plaster an intellectual veneer on their lazy culture war moralism

>> No.15777289

>>15777246
yes who could forget when Foucault's New England women colleagues tried to legalize pedophilia.
Oh wait.... that was him... Sorry I shouldn't have said that

>> No.15777333

>>15777289

https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-authorities-placed-children-with-pedophiles-for-30-years/a-53814208

Continental philosophy has nothing to do with the fact that there was actually a fairly broad scientific consensus for most of the 20th century that sexual counters might not necessarily be inherently damaging to children.

In any event, unsavory opinions on the nature of pedophilia don't necessarily entail that your only motivation is to just destroy the west for no reason.

If anything, isn't promoting boy love the true "Retvrn to Tradition"? What's more trad than classical Greece?

>> No.15777342

>>15776783
shhh

>> No.15777343

Go read an actual analytic journal see how much their producing of value

>> No.15777362

>>15777333
Go get AIDS like your hero, degenerate.

>> No.15777365
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15777365

>Go read an actual analytic journal see how much their producing of value

>> No.15777375

>>15776736
>> lets deconstruct everything and get to the basis of it all!
>> everything in the world loses it value, academia becomes masturbatory nihilism, all meaningful mythos just turn into products of a time period/bias etc.
So none of it had any real value in the first place and you're blaming the guy who pointed it out?

>> No.15777384

>>15776736
Have you never heard of Heidegger?

>> No.15777390

>>15777362

I don't even like Foucault overall but you can't make the points you're making about him with any intellectual honesty if you actually know anything about him or continental phil.

Derrida was deeply concerned with and contributed to the western tradition and its own discourse about itself. Ditto for Heidegger, whom he revered as the most vital philosopher for the 20th century--as does basically every other continental philosopher.

>> No.15777406

>>15777390
Based sociology teacher.

>> No.15777427

>>15777384

it's too much to expect anyone ill informed enough to make OP to understand that literally all of continental philosophy is building off of and basically responding to a 1930's conservative revolution German thinker who refused to publicly apologize for his involvement in the early days of National Socialism. /pol/fags can't respond to this because their worldview is too flimsy and shabby to develop any takes that are deeper than bullshit they've seen in Jordan Peterson videos on youtube. You hate to see it, but this is the "dissident right" these days in peak intellectual form.

>>15777406

Thanks. Or was this meant to be an insult? lol hard to tell sometimes

>> No.15777491
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15777491

>>15776736
Correct.
Creation is difficult but even a retarded chimp can destroy
They all wished they were pic and they all failed
Postmodernism is over

>> No.15777528

>>15776767
BASED

>> No.15777534

>>15777491

Ah yes, the totally non destructive Herr Heidegger none of these other thinkers can hold a candle to and his...*squints* destruction of the history of ontology...

>> No.15777605

>>15776736
Whoa, did Foucault really say that? Based as fuck

>> No.15777659

>>15777246
>>15777333
>>15777390
Based posters putting the anti-continental brainlets in their right place

>> No.15777695

>>15777659
Utterly debased

>> No.15777980

What's the best textbook intro to continental philosophy?

>> No.15778008

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqxXX8AI7Es

>> No.15778079

>hasn't read the hider of eggs
/lit/ privileges revoked until the egg-hider has been read

>> No.15778088

>>15776783
God is infinite,
Man is transfinite,
Creation is finite.

>> No.15778106

>>15776736

Everybody all over the planet should realize right now Foucault is worthless because of how all the professors all over the planet who make a living talking of panopticons and disciplinary institutions didnt say shit about the Covid19 forced quarantine, no problematization of it at all.
Self victimizing faggot literature for faggots, and poser anti-establishment philosophy for others posers, nothing more than that.

>> No.15778114

>>15776736
Why are you trying to tear them down?

>> No.15778122

>>15777205
The west is the most just place

>> No.15778169

>>15778122
unironically based and redpilled

>> No.15778289

>>15778088
Bullshit

>> No.15778553

>>15778106

Thats not true. Agamben and plenty of other critical theorists were kvetching about how the coronavirus was a state of exception that was being used to implement "big data biopolitics."

I remember a few professors even getting made fun of for telling their students not to get tested so that the state couldn't monitor us. When Zizek came out against those people he was actually staking out a minority view within those circles.

>> No.15778571

>>15776736
>thinks there is and must always be progression
>idiot OP

Its just your opinion that these are worthless. I think not

>> No.15778790
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15778790

>>15776736
They have created a window.
As we look out upon the window, we can see the world shifting and taking shape in new ways.
This could be our end, or the start of a beautiful future.

The window has a name.
Clown world.

>> No.15778811

I don’t get why people blame Foucault for everything in the world, there’s a lot of views he had that would be sacrilege to the average leftist or liberal. They universally believe that sexuality is ontological and something you’re born with whereas Foucault argued that all sexualities are socially constructed. That would literally be considered homophobic if you said that publicly

>> No.15778824

>>15778811
This. If Foucault saw the people using him to defend their bullshit these days he'd be rolling over in his grave.

>> No.15778845
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15778845

>>15778811

>> No.15778855

>>15776736
why do you choose the homosexual french as the prime examples of continental philosophy?
>ignoring Husserl
>ignoring Schopenhauer
>ignoring Heidegger

>> No.15778861

>>15776736
>It just tears down what was already made
No, that's liberal capitalism, any philosopher helping with that was only a useful idiot.

>> No.15778889

true continental philosophy means
1. materialism: homer, presocratics, epicureans, telesio, bruno, campanella, gassendi, diderot, la mettrie, condillac and the other french materialists with leopardi
2. rationalism: plato, aristotle, stoics, pomponazzi, descartes, leibniz ,spinoza, kant, shopenhauer
4. psychologism: nietzsche, brentano and his many schools, husserl (yes, he definitely is a psychologist)
5. intelligent positivism (not comte): mach, avenarius
6. analytic philosophy: bolzano, herbart and the "neokantians", frege, carnap, neurath and the vienna circle, wittgenstein

german ""idealists"", spiritualists, vitalists, existentialists, post-structuralists, etc are not philosophers and by no means continental philosophers

>> No.15778899

>>15776736
Just check how many of them signed the petition for "children liberation"(legalising paedophilia) to know what kind of "people" they were.

>> No.15779549

>>15778889
>materialism: homer
>psychologism: husserl
>german ""idealists"", post-structuralists are not philosophers
king, close your mouth, your brain is leaking

>> No.15779556

>>15778899
unironically based, no leftist today would have balls for this kind of thing

>> No.15779624

>>15776783
based butterfag impostor

>> No.15779629

It's not really philosophy. You can call it 'cultural criticism', 'political commentary', or 'self-help', but it certainly is not philosophy.

>> No.15779663

Imagine wasting your time reading this dumb gay shit then actually arguing about it lmao

>> No.15779665

>>15777342
is this the real butterfly or did she leave

i havent been here in a while

>> No.15779716

>>15776736
Eh. The early modern Continentals like Heidegger and Husserl are still important. They might be linguistically obtuse at times but they have exerted a positive influence on the world in general, like Heidegger warning of the dangers we currently face with technology and how to live a life more in line with what it is to be human along with what >>15776756 is saying. It's really post-war Continental philosophy that became an autism fest of dumb theories and academic onanism.
>>15777534
He at least posits something else in place of the destruction of the history of ontology due to a fundamental misunderstanding of the OG Greek resources on a linguistic level.

>> No.15779797

> sexual control is bad! We need to abolish these oppressive controls
How is this bad?
> women are now literally just marketed as holes in music videos, a kid sees crazier porn than prostitutes once saw, unhealthy sexual fetishes are now supported as normal
and in Sparta, boys used to have assigned male fuck-buddies. Get historically relative nigga
> lets deconstruct everything and get to the basis of it all!
Literally what science does, improving human life
> everything in the world loses it value, academia becomes masturbatory nihilism, all meaningful mythos just turn into products of a time period/bias etc.
Agreed
> what if everything is like.,.. absurd bro
They're not wrong, we just live inside a physical body that can't appreciate that
> accelerates the fetishization of "the philosopher" and "existentialism" and turns it into more of an aesthetic choice rather than a serious discipline.
Agreed

>> No.15779850

Anglos are essentially corrupt. Just ignore these threads, ignore american posters, they are neurotic, vile, liars, materialists, their souls have been sealed. Do not engage with them. Pathologically ethnocentrist, lacking in every kind of awareness; political, individual, collective awareness. No sense for beauty and the sublime, just vulgarity encompassing every aspect of their diminished existence.

They misread, fail to understand anything outside their immediate gasp, turn it upside down in a satanic manner and blame everyone else but themselves, for their own creations.

>> No.15779864

>>15777365
Retard

>> No.15780351

>>15776736
>Philosophy doesn't produce anything with value.
FTFY

>> No.15780539

>>15779716

>He at least posits something else in place of the destruction of the history of ontology due to a fundamental misunderstanding of the OG Greek resources on a linguistic level.

Granted. But it's totally daft to think that something like Derrida's project isn't more or less taking up the Heideggerian project. The roots of "Deconstruction" are right in the introduction to Being and Time. Besides, the thing he is proposing in place of the destruction is not simply a naive return to the origin but "another beginning," which he explicitly formulates in reference to Nietzche's "philosophy of the future." Particularly, in towards the beginning of the Contributions, he contrasts the first beginning of Western phil by saying its basic disposition is wonder (Platos theatetus) while the basic disposition of the other beginning will be dread ( a clear reference to Nietzsche's anti-education)

Heidegger was known to bro around with Lacan and described Bataille as one of France's "brightest minds." I have a difficult time not imagining you writing off either as a "degenerate" or whatever your thinly occluded /pol/fag gripes about every continental past the early days of phenomenology are.

>> No.15780581
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15780581

>>15777333
I'll desconstruct you, faggot.

>> No.15780610

>>15780581
>>15780581

So your incisive and studied critique of continental philosophy is that what? Pedophilia is evil?

Wow how brave. Really made me think.

Based retard.

You'd be less ridiculous if you could even put in a half assed effort into explaining what it is about continental philosophy that leads necessarily to that opinion without just regurgitating a bunch of half baked shit you saw on youtube videos about "Cultural Marxism," but no one expects that because it's obvious to everyone that you don't read enough books to be able to pull it off.

>> No.15780636

>>15776736

>waaaa please dont tear down my picture show

this is you

>> No.15780641
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15780641

>>15780636
forgot pic

>> No.15780642

>>15780610
The truth is that your perverted mindset will never be accepted by the majority of population. As I notice, it'll be more likely for your kind to be purged. Somewhere in mid of the crowd I'll be there with a torch while you're flayed, faggot. This is the only possible outcome if you push your degenerate narrative too hard and you know it.

>> No.15780649

>>15780539
I mean, I guess you have a point. Probably my biggest problem with post-WW2 continental philosophy is the focus on psychoanalysis it took on, which I think is a meme field. But the way you put it, it is kinda hard to argue against that logic.

Who are some good continentals to read from the post-WW2 period?

>> No.15780658

Foucault deserved AIDS but still wasn't as much of a faggot as OP.

>> No.15780766

>>15780642

I'm not defending pedophilia I'm just against the idea that we should burn some of the most important works of the last century because a few of the greatest minds of france might have disagreed with me about something. But yeah sure if you want to go ahead and kill everyone who defends the right to freely express ideas then I guess there's nothing I can say to you except to notice literally where you are posting your ignorant comments and start with yourself.

>>15780649

> the focus on psychoanalysis it took on, which I think is a meme field

I think it's fair to say that most of the worst excesses of post WWII continental phil come from that.

If you liked Heidegger you'll probably like Sloterdijk. If you want a good "continental" attack on Heidegger from the right there's an ex Bishop Emmanuel Severino who got excommunicated from the Catholic church for being a neoparmenidean and arguing creation ex nihilo is impossible.

I think Baudrillard is actually pretty underrated but he does tend to get a bit lost in the poetic performance of being a French intellectual.

Bernard Stiegler is also a good contemporary one. Those are just a few of the ones I like but the list gets limited when I try to restrict it to philosophers that don't dabble in psychoanalysis at all. Deleuze, if you can get over how painfully French a lot of the writing with Guattari is, is actually really good. His historical books I think are particularly clear and enjoyable to read. D and G give a lot of pushback to psychoanalysis in Anti-Oedipus, but I'm not sure that you're going to necessarily be any more positively disposed to their "schizoanalysis." There's definitely some good ideas in there though if you can get through the '68 theatrics.

>> No.15780818
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15780818

>>15780766
Thanks mate. I'll check them out after Mass. They definitely sound interesting to read, even if I may not agree with what they're saying.

>> No.15780843

>>15777333
>If anything, isn't promoting boy love the true "Retvrn to Tradition"? What's more trad than classical Greece?
you guys are like robots repeating a script. I have seen this exact post with words slightly rearranged so many times
>but le trads were not trad like u think!!
total npc behavior

>> No.15780987

>>15777980
Probably Time and Philosophy: A History of Continental Thought by John McCumber

>> No.15781049

>>15780766
I'm against burning books or destroying any cultural heritage. It's the ideology conceived by the likes of Buttler and Foucault that are now defacing monuments and destroying sculptures in the western world. The only related behavior was seeing with Taliban and Isis destroying ancient monuments. It's clear that there's a destructive moviment from a relativistic progressive group inspired by continental thought. Althought I read and even respect some of Foucault's writting, as I also do for Marx, there's a group of people that, by using their writtings, are putting millions to misery or death.

>> No.15781073

>>15780843
>I have seen this exact post with words slightly rearranged so many times

Did it ever occur to you that the reason you've seen this argument posted so many times is because its an obvious takedown of a half-baked meme ideology which is mostly espoused by people who don't even read enough books to develop a position that wouldn't be open to that kind of attack?

>>15780818

Based. My pleasure anon have a good time at Mass.

>> No.15781090

>>15781049

Butler, yes. Foucault would be rolling over in his grave if he could see these people. He was totally anti-thought control and thought policing.

If you want to blame a continent for our current problems I'm personally much more comfortable with convicting North America than with Europe.

>> No.15781345

>>15781090
I agree with you here.

>> No.15782256

>>15778889
Bruno was an esotericist and people still call him materialist

>> No.15782306

>>15776736
>it's an american conflating the american reception of continental philosophy with continental philosophy
Bro, that's super cringe.

>> No.15782343

>>15776756
>>15776756
Nope. Did that sound plausible to you because you're a retard humanities faggot that don't even know what a derivative is?

>> No.15782360

>>15778889
>Husserl writes extensively on why psychologism is not a solution
>Anon calls him a psychologist anyway
>Anon is a phenomenal retard
>True Continental is analytic
>Kant is not a Philosopher
>Anon is a transcendental retard

I know people accuse continentals of being anti-rational jibberish, but this is too much,

>> No.15782363

>>15782343
That's quite rude anon, you should be nicer when you speak to other people.

>> No.15782370

>>15780843
Is it wrong? The entire trad argument is "People in the past acted like this, so we should too". It's an obvious counter-argument to point out that no one 700 years ago acted the way you want people to act now.

>> No.15782386
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15782386

>>15780843
>you guys are like robots repeating a script. I have seen this exact post with words slightly rearranged so many times
>guys, please stop blowing my fantasy world the fuck out by presenting me with the obvious reason that it is wrong, I don't like it

>> No.15782391

> Pascal, Leibniz, Descartes, and plenty of other early modern philosophers made contributions to mathematics and science. They had both philosophy and concrete contributions to society
> Continental academic larping has uhhhh........ surely they did SOMETHING more than just write for other academics right.....??

>> No.15782423

>>15776736
Transhumanism is the only way forward anon. Do u want to know the what why and how of everything,buckle up and better start learning STEM to increase the chances for finding the meaning of everything of everything

>> No.15782425

>>15780642
>The truth is that your perverted mindset will never be accepted by the majority of population
Conservatives always say this and they're always wrong.

>> No.15782426

>>15782256
bruno was a tough one. i do not agree with france yeats' book, that bruno was a plain magician like, say, nostradamus. his idea of magic is more corpuscolarist than hermetic (bruno was indeed an atomist), very much akin to pomponazzi's. bruno sees the world as a mechanism, yet a casual one. there is no other world but the immanent one in bruno's philosophy.
but while the other materialists in my list are also determinists, bruno is a radical anti-determinist, so he is a materialist sui generis

>> No.15782453

>>15782363
I think you should kill yourself.

>> No.15782456
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15782456

>>15778088
>why yes I'm a finite to infinite transperson, what gave it away?

>> No.15782469

>>15782360
1. husserl was accused of psychologism by frege, then he wrote against psychologism in the logical investigations, finally he fell back into psychologism after the logical investigations, which is why either in berlin and in munich the "orthodox" phenomenologists held him to be gone mad.
2. kant has nothing to do with the german idealism as he himself wrote in the open letter against fichte. and i placed kant in his rightful place, among the rationalists.
3. analytical philosophy IS 100% CONTINENTAL. frege is its father, carnap and wittgenstein are two of its three foremost representatives after frege.
4. anglos call "continental" a bunch of schools that are by no means representative of the continental philosophy.

>> No.15782481

>>15782306

This

>> No.15782497

>>15782469
i mean:
father = frege
representatives = russell, carnap, wittgenstein (and i personally would add neurath whose importance is too often underestimated)

>> No.15782502

>>15782469
>3. analytical philosophy IS 100% CONTINENTAL. frege is its father, carnap and wittgenstein are two of its three foremost representatives after frege.
>4. anglos call "continental" a bunch of schools that are by no means representative of the continental philosophy

This anon gets it

>> No.15782556
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15782556

>>15776756
>neuroscience
>AI
>value

>> No.15782644

Foucault's thought is literally what happens if you put a bourgeois liberal in a prison for 6 months.

>> No.15782849

>>15782469
I can understand Kant being placed among the rationalists, but to say that he has nothing to do with the German Idealists is just silly. In his own time this may have been up for debate, but you're fighting an uphill battle if you're claiming his historical legacy isn't part of that scene.

Analytic philosophy is "continental" in the literal sense that it has people, like Frege, and Carnap, who are from the continent of Europe, but you know as well as I do that isn't what it refers to. You're being obtuse.

>> No.15783041

>>15782849
as i said, kant himself in the letter on A L-Z of august 1799 says that fiche's system has nothing to do with his own and that he considers it untenable. it's not my opinion against yours, it's kant opinion on his own phil. against yours. do you realize it?
analytic philosophy was founded and represented mainly in continental europe, it is perfectly clear and there is nothing else to add. frege and peano are its founders, russell advanced it. most of the 1st gen analytical philosophers are austrians and germans, there is also a great italian school (valiati, padoa, etc) and a polish one, which btw comes from brentano. so analytic phil. is continental much more than british.

>> No.15783138

>>15783041
Nothing you're saying is wrong, I just think you're running with it weirdly. Yes, Kant differed in opinion, which is why I specifically said that his legacy and milieu may have been negotiable in his own lifetime, but for better or worse, he is virtually inextricable from German Idealism from today's vantage point. Further, "Continental" doesn't literally refer to the nation of origin of various authors, you know this. Saying that Frege was from the continent doesn't make him a continental philosopher in the way that every other person uses the word "continental". This is why Dawkins rightfully got roasted after his ridiculous comment on twitter about "continental physics" or some such.

>> No.15783330

>>15783138
>Saying that Frege was from the continent doesn't make him a continental philosopher in the way that every other person uses the word "continental"
this is why i wrote >>15778889
calling "continental" that set of philosophies (correctly put together btw) which starts from the german idealism and ends with the french post-structuralism is an anglo mistake.

>> No.15783354

Do you guys think Camus would've signed the pedo petition if he lived long enough to see it, or would his beef with Sartre make him not want to be associated with it?

>> No.15783559

>>15783330
You may be right, but that is at this point a matter of personal opinion which can be broached elsewhere. The point is that when OP is discussing Continental philosophy, he obviously means it in the common sense, and not your individual campaign to redefine it, whatever the merits of that position might be.

>> No.15783569

>>15783354
Even though I think Camus is a meme, I think he's a genuinely normal person at his core. I doubt he would sign like that because that would mean his could be violated by people like Sarte and I don't think any grandfather wants to live in that type of world. The reason most of those people signed the petitions was due to the fact that they were sexual deviants with no family or children and hence no real investment in the future, which is why they could care less if the law gets abused by a grooming pedo.

>> No.15783841

>>15776736
>it comes where all foul things come from... France

>> No.15784259

>>15783569
>The reason most of those people signed the petitions was due to the fact that they were sexual deviants with no family or children and hence no real investment in the future, which is why they could care less if the law gets abused by a grooming pedo.
Camus wasn't perfect either. The guy couldn't stop cheating on his wife for the life of him. Might've worked out better if he did what Sartre did and hooked up with a woman who was fine with being cucked.

>> No.15784282
File: 46 KB, 492x492, 1537300084713.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15784282

Do you think philosophy would improve if every academic philosopher alive today would be killed in a worldwide holocaust?
Serious question.

>> No.15784297

>>15776736
Nigga existentialism is inherently continental, what do you mean continental philosophy doesn't produce anything? They can tear down whatever the fuck THEY already made

>> No.15785079

>>15784282

Academic philosophers have almost always been irrelevant and the official state philosophy being retarded has literally never stopped anyone from philosophizing before.

>> No.15785110

>>15776736
Holy shit you fucking retard Foucault did not say that about sexuality. Post discarded. You're a verified psued.

>> No.15785130

>>15776736
The very first page of Foucault's History of Sexuality contradicts everything you have written about him in this dumpster of a post

>> No.15785132

>>15782469
Ah, the Anglo menace

>> No.15785237

>>15776783
>the only thing that cannot and should not be challenged by man is God,
You mean that dead guy?