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15731506 No.15731506 [Reply] [Original]

what's the best order to read Plato?

>> No.15731516

>>15731506
Parmenides -> Republic -> Nicomachean Ethics -> Destiny debates -> my diary desu

>> No.15731517

>>15731506
Apology and Euthyphro > Symposium >the Republic > Parmenide > Timaeus >the Laws >the Seventh Letter

Those are the only necessary writings.

>> No.15731541

>>15731517
>necessary
what makes these necessary and not any others?

>> No.15731547

>>15731506
Trial>Meno>Republic>Timaeus>Laws>Aristotles Ethics>Aristotles Politics>The Organon>On the Soul>Plutarchs Moralia>The Enneads>Proculus The Elements of Theology>Epistles of St Thomas>Nag Hammadi

>> No.15731563

>>15731541
They represent the key ideas of his philosophy while the other dialogues are worth reading ,they do not. Lysis for example is just asking "what is friendship?" but it doesn't give a good grounding for what Plato or Socrates actually thought of friendship.

>> No.15731569

>>15731563
OK, THANKS ANON

>> No.15731573

>>15731569
whoops didn't mean caps

>> No.15732024

>>15731569
>>15731573

Cute

>> No.15732038

>>15731506
Apology>Euthyphro>Crito>Symposium>Phaedo>Republic>Parmenides

>> No.15732056
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15732056

>>15731506
https://www.plato-dialogues.org/email/950404_1.htm
https://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/platochron.html

>> No.15732137

>>15732056
I read in that order. Seems good.

>> No.15732523

>>15732038
You should have included the Seventh Letter also.

>> No.15733030

>>15731506
gorgias-protogoras-euthyphro-apology-crito-meano-pheado

>> No.15733249

Hey frens,
In what order should I read Aristotle?

>> No.15733313

>>15733249
OP here, I'll bump for future info. should you read Aristotle straight after Plato?

>> No.15733341

>>15733313
it's not like there's anything in between them

>> No.15733344

>>15733313
Yes any other order else wouldn't make any sense.

>> No.15733441

>>15731506
William Altman proposes a pedagogical reading order of all the 35 dialogues of Plato and the letters, check it out.

>> No.15733822

I heard somewhere reading it in chronological order of Socrates biography is good but cant find that order anywhere.

>> No.15734144

I read apology and i gotta ask why a lot of people treat it as a must read. maybe i just didnt understand him when he said he knew nothing?

>> No.15735807

>>15734144
First use of dialectic in all western civilization. Use your fucking head.

>> No.15735832
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15735832

No.

>> No.15737326
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15737326

>>15731517
>Those are the only necessary writings
This is wrong

>>15731506
Start with Gorgias - it covers the same ground as Republic but is shorter and more readable
Then try a collection such as book pictured
Then Protagoras; Theaetetus; Republic
After that you'll know enough to decide for yourself what to read next

>> No.15737419
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15737419

>>15731517
>phaedrus
>Philebus
>Theaetetus
>Sophist
>Statesman

>> No.15737599
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15737599

Start with
>Halcyon.
Yes. Open the imagination of possibility.
>Protagoras, Euthydemus, Alcibiades I.
Then bonus like 100 pages together:
>Theages, Charmides, Laches, Lysis; order is irrelevant.
Then
>Meno, Euthyphro, now for thematic flavor read Clitophon, then Apology
but not yet Crito and Phaedo; order is Very relevant.
>Parmenides (your first read), this is to wake up your brain machine for the coming head wrangling
>Ion and Hippias 1&2.
>Cratylus, Theaetetus-Sophist-Statesman
these three are a chronological and thematic Trilogy, Cratylus works on the same theme
Now you read
>Meno, Laws, Epinomis
yes, this dialogue (greater Laws) is far too overlooked. Perhaps if people actually read this Plato would be "canceled". It is longer than all undeniably authentic dialogues, minus Republic, combined.
Now we get to the ones that made him famous.
>Symposium, Phaedrus, Republic, Gorgias, Crito, Phaedo
And the Endgame:
>Timaeus-Critias, Philebus, and again: Parmenides, read this theologically, it's not merely a logical exercise.

Alternatively reading Aristotle's Organon, De Anima, Physics, abd Metaphysics in the middle here perhaps Organon (at least Categories) before Theaetetus and the rest before Timaeus.
You should also be familiar with Homer, Orpheus, Hesiod and the presocratics.
Plato is a 'prophet', there is no significant development in his thought only systematization of UR-Platonism, as Gerson has proved without doubt; and his myths are no mere allegories.

>> No.15737629
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15737629

>>15737599
Minos-laws
Not Meno laws
I blame my phone posting

>> No.15737794

>>15731506
There's not really a "best" order per se; you kinda have to take Plato where you're at. Interested in Justice? Read the Gorgias or Republic. Wondering what the fuck human relationships are all about? Check out Lysis, Symposium, and Phaedrus. Etc.

There's also any number of pathways through the dialogues. For example, let's say you start off curious about Virtue, for whatever reason. You finish and you find that maybe you're more curious about one of the enumerated virtues than the others, so you follow it up with a dialogue on that virtue. Or let's say you're wondering what's up with Meno getting his prepared answers from some orator, Gorgias, who Socrates seems to have talked to; what's that guy about? So you read the Gorgias to find out. Or you notice that this guy Anytus in the dialogue seems not to trust Socrates, so you find out he's later one of his accusers and read the Apology. Or you're wondering about recollection, so you read Phaedo, which discusses it more.

There's all manner of possible and plausible connections between the dialogues, and going back and re-reading them can open additional insights in light of what you've just read.

>> No.15737906

>>15731506
timaeus in the original greek

>> No.15737934

>>15731517
>tell people to read 7th letter
>dont even include phaedo
>>15731547
Nag Hammadi definitely is not essential Plato.

>> No.15737976
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15737976

>>15731547
>Nag Hammadi

>> No.15737989

>>15731517
>telling people to read the letters
>making the letters known
>talking about the letters
>not pretending they're inauthentic to protect i mean don't read the letters they're late and spurious fraudulent and have not the secrets of the universe

>> No.15739720

My favourite dialogue is Euthydemus because my favourite thing in books is goofs gags and rambunctious behaviour.

>> No.15739724

>>15737934
>>15737976
Why else would you read plato?

>> No.15739778

>>15739720
You're pretty based, anon. My favorite dialogue is probably Meno.

>> No.15740083

>>15737599
>You should also be familiar with Homer, Orpheus, Hesiod and the presocratics.
And what is the order of presocratics?

>> No.15740171

Plato's works is hard to read

>> No.15740824

>>15740171
He's easier than Aristotle

>> No.15740868

1: Early Dialogues to get acquainted with Plato's style (Euthyphro/Laches/Lysis/Crito)
2: The Apology for historical context
3: Phaedo, Meno, Symposium, Timaeus
4: Republic
5: Parmenides