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/lit/ - Literature


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15715806 No.15715806 [Reply] [Original]

What philosophers can be described as “heroic?”

>> No.15715811

>>15715806
Wittgenstein

>> No.15715837

Socrates

>> No.15715840

Kierkegaard

>> No.15715859

>>15715806
Certainly not that Marxist trash.

>> No.15715860

why do sovjews have that gay fucking haircut all the time. reminds me of that violinist

>> No.15715861

JBP

>> No.15715881

Pearse

>> No.15715888

>>15715840
Based

>> No.15715895

Mainländer, an hero

>> No.15715921

>>15715860
>Gramsci
>Jewish
>Soviet
Why don't /pol/yps even try

>> No.15715923
File: 1.91 MB, 3896x2559, of plato and socrates.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15715923

including
Plato
Plotinus (ran orphanage, taught for free, as all Platonists do)
Damascius (faced exile from christian persecution twice), & CO.

>> No.15716134

>>15715859
Back to pol, basedboy faggot

>> No.15716151

>>15715859
>oh yeah just because someone's ideas are trash you should just arrest him and let him rot in jail
You sound like a white-guilted teenager girl

>> No.15716155

>>15716134
Cool it with the reactionary language, comrade.

>> No.15716178

>>15716151
>>oh yeah just because someone's ideas are trash you should just arrest him and let him rot in jail
Yes.

>> No.15716183

>>15716151
>Tries to instigate mass violence and install a proletarian dictatorship that will inevitably result in the suppression of free speech
NOOOO YOU CAN’T JUST LOCK ME UP WHAT ABOUT MY FREE SPEECH?

>> No.15716227

>>15716178
based

>> No.15716599

>>15716183
He was imprisoned by the fascists though.

>> No.15716630

>>15715840
Agreed
And very aesthetic too

>> No.15716638

>>15715806
Xenophon

>> No.15718322

>>15716599
based fascists

>> No.15718345

>>15715806
Me, after I get America rid of KKKapital's hands

>> No.15718350

>>15715840
the only correct answer

>> No.15719418
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15719418

>>15715859

>> No.15719574

>>15715806
only saw-crates

>> No.15721836

>>15715840
Based

>> No.15721893

Descartes and Plato were both warriors who fought valiantly during their youths.

Evola was stoic in the face of danger but it's closer to temerity than heroism in my opinion.

>> No.15721901

>>15721893
Fuck i meant Socrates, not Plato.

>> No.15721902

>>15715840
how to I into Kierkegaard lads

>> No.15721903

>>15721893
Read Shorter Hippias or whichever dialogue it is. Retardation is not courage. You can't be courageous if you're unaware of any danger.

>> No.15722118

>>15715806
Spinoza.

>> No.15722296

>>15715806
Machiavelli

1513 Dismissed from office and tortured; retires to his country place and completes The Prince

>> No.15722365

>>15715806
Except he was just the truth-bringer. Nothing heroic about that - actually lawful evil if you ask me.
>>15715840
Has a faggy complex. I don't get the Kierkegaard love on this board.
>>15715837
Lol what. Socrates didn't live his life heroically. It wasn't until his old age he decides to go against the state. That's cowardice because you know you're going to die soon so nothing matters. It's like shooting up a movie theater and killing yourself.

Yeah sure he has a love of the state but it obviously wasn't deep enough in his youth. Socrates was a shit rhetorician.
>>15715923
>Plato
Interesting you say that. I think the psychology of Plato is him realizing his own mortality. I think Plato is one of those "punished philosophers" but decides to make it his life's goal to do something about it before dying. He is much like da Vinci but less depressing.
>>15722296
And yet he writes a book clearly siding with royalty over the common man.

>> No.15722375
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15722375

Carlyle

>> No.15722392

>>15715888
>>15716630
>>15718350
>>15721836
>>15721902
>Spent his entire life trapped in the cage-suspended-over-flames of Christian thought
Feel sorry for him desu

>> No.15722405

>>15715806
The idea that "heroes" exist is self-refuting nonsense.

>> No.15722498

None, writing books is for fags. The hero can only exist in a pre-literate society of pure instinct, unburdened by anything heavier than oral tradition.

>> No.15722499

>>15715806
Socrates was heroic on multiple occasions. In his youth he served with bravery and distinction as a citizen-soldier. In later years when serving on the Athenian council he voted against unjust populist proposals such as an order to imprison a weathly foreign resident in order to seize their property.
He did a lot more than just philosophise in the market-place.

>> No.15722590
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15722590

>>15715806
Gramsci was a crypto-Nazbol, and he was jailed because One of his commie Friends (Togliatti) Turned him in by referring to him as the leader of the Italian communist party in his letters.Ironically before that he had enjoyed relative Freedom of Speech by the regime,although that was probably because of his Brother whom was an hardcore fascist.
And his jail was pretty comfy
>Inb4 DAS FALSE
I am italian and my grandma was a communist voter for most of her adult Life and She told me alot of this plus I watched an interview with a Regio Esercito Veteran

>> No.15722597
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15722597

>>15715806
Mao Zedong

>> No.15722703

>>15722597
>Gets btfo by a birb
lol

>> No.15722719

Nietzsche was a martyr of philosophy

>> No.15722871

Where to start with Gramsci?

>> No.15723034

>>15722871
>>15722590

>> No.15723044
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15723044

>>15722703
Yet still resulted in the most powerful country on the planet that went from full on feudalism to the most advanced industrialized nation in a single generation.

>> No.15723074

>>15715806
Certainly not Gramsci, he was a faggot midget with spinal issues. Deserved to rot in prison.

>> No.15723084

>>15723044
>Ignoring all the people that got starved to death
>Ignoring the Years of warlordism, civil war and foreign invasion
Thats like comparing Rome in 476 to Italy in 1863

>> No.15723094

>>15723084
Let me reformulate,thats like comparing post unity Italy to modern day Italy

>> No.15723116
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15723116

>>15723084
>Ignoring all the people that got starved to death
Yes people starved to death and? This is no way compares to the death under poor working conditions during the industrial revolution the hundreds of millions that died as a result of imperialism. The results of the great leap forward were a success. People died but China is a better place today because of what they did.

>Ignoring the Years of warlordism, civil war and foreign invasion
Yes foreign imperialism was a disaster for the Chinese thankfully this helped to create the material conditions for revolution.

>> No.15723132

>>15723116
Are you guys unironic shills from China?

>> No.15723158
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15723158

>>15723132
>Anyone who disagrees with me is a shill!!!
C O P E

>> No.15723290

>>15722365
How this dweeb could have come to such specious opinions having interacted with the material he purports to have done is a sort of a monument to what the heart of stupidity really is.

>> No.15723321

>>15723116
>Its okay when my side Kills people
>modern China isn't imperialistic
*Laughs in afriKangz*

>> No.15723330

>>15723321
Not to mention that modern day china Is pretty capitalistic.
They really survived not because of Mao but because of Deng,that Manlet basically saved china from becoming the 90s Ussr, because he adopted a capitalist economic system

>> No.15723379

>>15723158
Defending the killing of your fellow Citizen and generally defending all the Crimes commited by a foreign nation Is pretty shilly.
You unironically sound like Jason Unruhe

>> No.15723382
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15723382

>>15723321
Nice western propaganda. Cry more, the future is Chinese.
>>15723330
Agreed Dengs reforms helped to speed up the economic growth in China that's has resulted in it's overwhelming success. This is in keeping with the Marxist idea of using capitalism to industrialize. China is the ultimate synthesis and will achieve post scarcity in the not so distant future. Xi Jinping has ushered in a new era of Chinese politics and is maintains ironing out contradictions left right and center. Cultural revolution 2.0 coming soon baby!

>> No.15723402
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15723402

>>15723379
I do not defend unnecessary killing, however reactionaries and bourgeoisie elements actively work to subvert the workers project thus rendering the proletariat no choice but to engage in a protracted people's war.

>> No.15723431

>>15723402

>I do not defend unnecessary killing,
>My fellow farmers deserved to starve

>> No.15723447

>>15723382
>Nice western propaganda
Everything I don't like Is Westerner propaganda
Or,Even better
I Refuse Documented case of my object of fetishist engaging in explotaition of foreign gilda but its okay because the west Is the Ebil imperialist

>> No.15723458

>>15723382
>This is in keeping with the Marxist idea of using capitalism to industrialize. China is the ultimate synthesis and will achieve post scarcity in the not so distant future
So,they are revisionist basically
Tankie logic 101

>> No.15723476

me. i am heroic.

>> No.15723482

>>15723382
>This is in keeping with the Marxist idea of using capitalism to industrialize.
marxists a never ending source of comedy

>> No.15723526
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15723526

>>15723431
I never said that. I agreed people did die sure but their sacrifice laid the foundations for what China is today if that could have been prevented it would have. A famine would of occurred regardless as a result of the rape and plunder during the Second Sino-Japanese War and century of neglect at the hands of warlords. The great leap forward would have actually saved more lives then had it of remained a Republic under Chiang Kai-shek due to central planning allowing for the mass mobilization of the workforce to tackle the problems head on.
>>15723447
I am sure you can find cases of exploitation at the hands of the Chinese in Africa but generally speaking the amount of development and investment the Chinese have provided to African countries in the last 10 years far out ways anything to date. China is actively helping to lift our African comrades out of poverty through hands off investment. The growing economic success of Africa can largely be attributed to this Chinese funding.
>>15723458
What is your point?
>>15723482
Why is this surprising to you? Do you have any understanding of Marxist economic theory?

>> No.15723537

>>15723526
>just trust me bro our capitalist and authoritarian state will totally become non-capitalist and stateless
as I said, comedy

>> No.15723558
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15723558

>>15723537
Laugh all you want. China's objective success and the decline of the West is a reality.

>> No.15723559

>>15723526

I am sure you can find cases of exploitation at the hands of the Chinese in Africa but generally speaking the amount of development and investment the Chinese have provided to African countries in the last 10 years far out ways anything to date
I could Say the same for the french and Americunts

>> No.15723568

>>15723558
>Ignoring that Marxism was based on the Eurocentric Views of a German

>> No.15723577

>>15723558
yeah and China is objectively not stateless or anti-capitalist. Not to mention its gdp per capita and average quality of life are still way below the West.

>> No.15723578

>>15723558
Also I doubt that you are even an Han chinese yourself

>> No.15723582

>>15719418
>u ugly

>> No.15723612

>>15722590
I wonder what Gramsci would think of SJWs. They essentially managed to successfully apply his proposed method although the goal differs.

>> No.15723617

>>15715811
What was Wittgenstein's great act of heroism? Abusing schoolchildren?
>>15716155
>>15716183
>>15716134
You have to go back
>>15715806
Alan Turing and Peter Abelard for obvious reasons

>> No.15723619

where do I start with gramsci ffs have you guys even read him?

>> No.15723640

>>15723612
He would have probably roped

>> No.15723649

>>15723526
>I never said that. I agreed people did die sure but their sacrifice laid the foundations for what China is today if that could have been prevented it would have
You do realize I could Say the same about the industrial revolution?

>> No.15723662

>>15723612
The Italian communist that survived WW2 where basically the shit of the shit that the party had to offer and they suddendly found themselves an open way to rise to the top.this clearly observable with that fat fuck Bordiga

>> No.15723678

>>15723617
>Alan Turing and Peter Abelard for obvious reasons

I don't get it. Turing seems neither heroic nor cowardly. His war effort didn't involve any personal risk. Abelard seems somewhat cowardly in matters of love.

>> No.15723709
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15723709

>>15723559
I'm afraid you simple couldn't neither of these countries have the economic influence or capabilities. All the French and Americans currently do is prop up proxy governments to extract resources and perpetuate colonialism. China is allowing African countries to shape their own fate by granting tools and resources necessary. Just look how China has helped to establish the African Union giving Africans the ability to collectively resolve issues internally.
>>15723568
Yes you are correct, dialectics moves forward never backward we build upon ideas not dogmatically follow them. Read contradictions by Mao. With each workers movement we iron out the contradictions of the last building workers states subject to the material conditions of each area. Marx was not the universal architect of how socialism should be achieved but simply the foundation.
>>15723577
That's because the West has hundreds years of industrialization and economic plundering from the third world to prop themselves up. Given time China will surpass the West almost definitely and just look how far they have already come putting the whole world to shame. I do not support stateless societies under the current conditions that is simply foolish. We will only ever reach this state if the material conditions allow it and we are nowhere near that point. First we must achieve post scarcity.
>>15723578
How is that relevant?
>>15723649
Yes you could if it had not been for the fact that Western dogma drew out the unnecessary suffering of working people and often resulted in worse conditions for working people then under feudalism that was only resolved through imperialism and even greater levels of exploitation. But then again I could simply say China just did it better and in less time.

>> No.15723744

>>15723709
Whats the point of fetishing a foreign nation

>> No.15723810
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15723810

>>15723744
Because we can learn from it's example. Why does the fact that it is foreign bother you so greatly? Ultimately as time progresses and the West continues to decline China's success shall be felt more widely largely to our benefit.

>> No.15723826
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15723826

>>15722365
Siding with the common man is not heroic.

>> No.15723832

>>15723826
this desu

>> No.15723835

>>15722719
Dying from sex is not heroic.

>> No.15723849

>>15723810
Why shill for foreigners when we can improve are situation here in the west?
What you do Bothers me because its literally a form of betrayal towards your civilization,race,culture and people.
Also your Pic Is pretty fucking funny
"Oh wow a corporate Icon supports my communist that's definetly not a contradiction"

>> No.15723860

>>15723849
The west is dead. Our culture is internationalism. There’s nothing left to save and anyone who disagrees is fucking delusional.

>> No.15723877

>>15723860
Putting your faith in China is like putting your faith in a house of cards, do not study geopolitics? or are you just blindly following outdated ideology? That's a road to even more civil unrest and plenty of deaths if you have no idea what you're talking about or working with.

>> No.15723904
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15723904

>>15723849
>Why shill for foreigners when we can improve are situation here in the west?
What makes you think I don't support workers movements in my own country?
>What you do Bothers me because its literally a form of betrayal towards your civilization,race,culture and people.
Cool your racist.
>"Oh wow a corporate Icon supports my communist that's definetly not a contradiction"
It's not like he has been widely ousted from western media and even blacklisted by many outlets for expressing his views, very establishment.

>> No.15723918

>>15723904
would you call the Chinese racist for caring more about Chinese people than White people?

>> No.15723935
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15723935

>>15723877
Not the poster you are replying to but it is the nonsense that you are spouting that is indeed outdated, China's political theory is the most contemporary and relevant and it is exactly why I support China, that is the way the wind is blowing.
>>15723918
No no! You are getting me wrong I am fine with racism especially in America. The more internal conflict the better.

>> No.15723945

>>15723935
>No no! You are getting me wrong I am fine with racism especially in America. The more internal conflict the better.
This is a copout. I know you have no problems with China caring first and foremost about Chinese people. It's normal. You just for some reason don't want white people to do it.

>> No.15723964

>>15723935
>China's political theory
Has never fixed a single detrimental problem that the Chinese are currently facing at this moment, they are no different than America - you're just a larping zoomer who wants to act smug and give the excuse to kill people.

>> No.15723967

>>15723904
>Western culture Is only America between the 1990s and 2010s
You are shitting me

>> No.15723975

>>15723860
>Our culture is internationalism.
Thats an oxymoron

>> No.15723987

>>15715806
“Gramsci”?
Sounds like a faggot

>> No.15723991

>>15715923
Lol, cause running an orphanage is “heroic.” Keep this word out of your mouth, Last Man.

>> No.15724004
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15724004

>>15723987
He was Half Albanian,his bro was Cool tho

>> No.15724005

>>15723975
How so

>> No.15724025
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15724025

>>15723945
Surly by your logic you should support the fact that China is a relativity homogeneous society that has successfully assimilated a vast amount of cultures and ethnic groups in such a short space of time resulting in more or less permanent stability that shall last long into the future. One question how do you define white? It's a fairly abstract concept.
>>15723964
If that is what you believe then you are simple out of touch with reality or in a position of extreme ignorance, educate yourself you would benefit immensely.
>you're just a larping zoomer who wants to act smug and give the excuse to kill people.
Is that because I am evil? Guess it's the devil right when you can't come up with answers jump to metaphysics it's how the right normally deals with problems.
>>15723967
Triggered :^)?

>> No.15724034

>>15723617
>What was Wittgenstein's great act of heroism? Abusing schoolchildren?
Yeah

>> No.15724043

>>15724025
China's stability depends on enforcing Han supremacy. They have re-education camps for ethnic/religious minorities. They are well within their rights to do this, but you can't turn around and call the West racist for even suggesting ethnocentrism, it's ridiculous.

Also why do you think China's stability will last forever? They don't exactly have a great track record for that.

>> No.15724044

>>15724005
You Can't mishmash different things and except a good result.
Look at Yugoslavia,Austria-Hungary,the Ussr,China and India if you want an example of Multiculturalism causing more harm then good

>> No.15724059

>>15724025
>assimilated a vast amount of cultures and ethnic groups in such a short space of time resulting in more or less permanent stability
Remember the inner Mongol indepence riots?
I do

>> No.15724070

>>15724025
How about ill educate you zoomie, the Covid-19 has just been a very large and noticeable crack in the facade that China has itself under control. Hong Kong was another. Before that, up until 2015, when reliable reports stopped escaping china, they were facing thousands of incidents of civil unrest. This has been longtime coming, ever since Chinese labor costs sextupled in 2010, or as the true reality of the one child policy begins to set in on an already overtaxed government, culminating in the infamous "4, 2, 1" problem. Not to mention how much of its GDP is reliant and dependent on overseas assets and export markets So I guess they'll have to rape Africa to stay Alive. Then you'll say
>Your imperialism? Cringe and blue pilled
>But my imperialism? Based and totally not blue pilled
I can go more into depth, but I'd rather not start posting walls of tex. Unless your annoy me with your ignorance.

>> No.15724152

>>15724025
>Triggered :^)?
Nah,I am Just surprised at how low you are willing to go.
Thats like Saying Japanese culture Is Just Anime and Hentai
You see how idiotic that comparrison Is

>> No.15724240
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15724240

>>15724043
Firstly it's han culture not a race, China is a vastly diverse country in terms of ethnic groups but that really doesn't matter because it is culturally homogeneous meaning it does not have to deal with cultural conflict like we do in the west and the few place it still does will not exist in a generation from now this is just one of many factors such a economic and political that are all contributing towards it's growing success.
>Also why do you think China's stability will last forever? They don't exactly have a great track record for that.
Nothing last's forever but China is certainly going to dominate global politics for the next epoch of human history and naturally they don't have a good record since they had been practicing feudalism in parts up until the second world war and been subject to exploitation by more technologically advanced nations. This is why the achievements of Mao are so impressive.
>>15724059
Will your children? I doubt it.
>>15724070
China is one of the least effected countries by Covid-19, it's governments response what a testament to the overwhelming efficiency of it's state. The Hong Kong protests had little to no effect and are similar in size to that of one day of Black Lives Matter in America. The civil unrest in China is largely a myth, the CIA backed agitators will run out of funding as America continues to collapse and so shall it's aggressive foreign policy. The life expectancy and quality of living in China has substantially grown over the last 10 years and work place satisfaction is far higher then that of the west. The fact that you even equate China's trading relationship and investment in Africa to imperialism is a joke, you are actually suggesting physical indentured servitude, plundering and rape is the same is building infrastructure, investing in local businesses and granting essential loans for bailing out their economies in return for mutually beneficially trading relations. I agree the one child policy was a failure and was thus abandoned.
>>15724152
Do you understand the concept of a meme?

>> No.15724242

>>15723290
And what pray tell, do you disagree with? You try your hardest to write bitter criticism but it's not effective, sweetie. It's more suited for poetry. :)

>> No.15724504

>>15724240
>China is one of the least affected countries by Covid-19, it's the government's response to what a testament to the overwhelming efficiency of its the state.
Do not remember the WHO fasico? Secret audio recordings from internal meetings of the World Health Organization reveal that the WHO knew China was withholding data and the genome map of the coronavirus in January at the same time Dr. Tedros and the WHO was praising the Chinese for its transparency. You are honestly spewing lies right now.
>The Hong Kong protests had little to no effect and are similar in size to that of one day of Black Lives Matter in America. The civil unrest in China is largely a myth.
Hong Kong protests were going on for months, you saying it's not a big deal and them covering you whatever they can about it actually hurts you more, the Chinese have a very long history of constant instability with its people.
>The life expectancy and quality of living in China has substantially grown over the last 10 years and workplace satisfaction is far higher than that of the west.
You deserve a medal for accomplishing what everyone else was doing during that time, except with more famines and death camps. The Chinese economy is the difference is that the US Debt doesn't makeup over half its GDP. It's just a house of cards made up of government subsidies and layers upon layers of bad loans. Their "wealth" is almost entirely artificial now, and they already missed their chance to transition from an export lead economy to an internal consumer economy. The first of these problems is their economy, which is the aforementioned house of cards. The entire modern Chinese economy is focused on throughput, not income. That means so long as production rates are up, products are being pumped out, and factories as a whole stay open and keep employing everyone, then it's all good. This is a problem as it operates on two false assumptions; that there will always be an endless supply of cheap labor and there will always be a market to sell those excess goods to. This model operates very similarly to the economic model that lead to the housing market bubble of 2008-07 that caused the Recession, as when a factory fails to turn a profit, the owners will simply take out a loan to cover the losses. Can't cover the loan payments? Just take out another loan to cover the loan payments. So on and so forth. This was facilitated by party officials to favored members and relatives, of course, resulting in a massive increase in lending in the Chinese economy. To put it in a nutshell, the entire Chinese economy, from the agricultural sector to the metalworking sector, is sub-prime. AS it turns out, markets are not bottomless and neither is labor. Labor especially thanks to the oncoming problem of the "4,2,1"

>> No.15724530

>>15723991
he also created all christian and western mysticism and ontology

>> No.15724576

>>15722118
The only right answer

>> No.15724587

>>15724240
>>15724240
>China's trading relationship and investment in Africa to imperialism is a joke,
China's growth can only be sustained at the end of the day by free, global trade and unrestricted access to global markets, particularly the United State's market, as it still remains to this day as the largest consumer market in Human History. This has started to become an issue, as the US is starting quietly back away from such agreements. Africa Is the next to the best thing and they'll start taking as much as they can to sustain the house of cards.

>> No.15724866
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15724866

>>15715806
Walter Benjamin.

>> No.15724879
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15724879

>>15715811

>> No.15725029

>>15715837
Based.
>>15715840
Disregard women, aquire knowledge.
>>15722118
Based.
>>15722296
Cringe.
>>15722405
True, but let's pretend otherwise for the sake of the thread,
>>15722719
Based.
>>15722597
He be no philosopher as he didn't love knowledge.
>>15723476
erotic

I'd like to take this instance to propose Pier Paolo Pasolini as the Philosophical hero of his generation.

>> No.15725052

>>15724879
Holy shit

>> No.15725564

>>15725029
>I'd like to take this instance to propose Pier Paolo Pasolini as the Philosophical hero of his generation.
Great writer and all but he made some pretty fucked up movies like Teorema and Saló,and those are the ones we got.imagine what we could have had if he had not been assasinated

>> No.15725681

>>15725564
Teorema is so based. It was brazzers before brazzers.

>> No.15725715
File: 36 KB, 511x511, 101835239_151544673089040_2019712043755030405_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15725715

>>15723382
based. stan loona btw

>> No.15725954

>>15724879
>>15725052
Downloaded the book pdf. This information is false and I feel cheated.
Please return me the wifi I wasted on this.

>> No.15726123

>>15715840
>One stands there defenseless, with no control over anything. The researcher immediately begins to distract one with his details: Now one is to go to Australia, now to the moon; now into an underground cave; now, by Satan, up the arse—to look for an intestinal worm; now the telescope must be used; now the microscope: Who in the devil can endure it?

>"the plenitude of human nature is found only in the unity of male and female"

>Kierkegaard held strong contempt for the media, describing it as "the most wretched, the most contemptible of all tyrannies".

Yep he was definitely based