/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15694293]

Is right-wing thought inherently more spiritual than left-wing thought? if so why?

[Anonymous No.15694305]

in that, we favour tradition over progress sure, but most right-wingers are still materialists and not very spiritual at all

[Anonymous No.15694374]

>>15694305

[Anonymous No.15694387]

>>15694293
>>15694305
I would argue right-wing thought values tradition more than left-wing thought, and therefore they gravitate towards the ways of old, which happens to include religion. Hard to say if there is something deeper that makes them more inclined to spirituality though. I don't think left-wing thought is less idealist.

[Anonymous No.15694395]

>>15694305
>most right-wingers are still materialists and not very spiritual at all
i think those are just leftists after an alternative material end (ethnic nationalism). the type of "right-winger" who once heard someone say that religion is necessary, and then puts it on the back-burner as something that might be arbitrarily chosen later is not at their core very traditional. there is a very willy-nilly way that certain "right-wingers" approach spirituality that demonstrates their inherent leftist materialism; richard spencer and his current circle come to mind.

[Anonymous No.15694424]

>>15694387
>Hard to say if there is something deeper that makes them more inclined to spirituality though. I don't think left-wing thought is less idealist.
this implies that spirituality and idealism are comparable. is that what you meant to assert? if so, i strongly disagree with that

[Anonymous No.15694435]

I think so. I remember a thread where there was a Marxist asking for recommendations on "Fascist Economics", in order to better understand the mindset, and why they reach the conclusions that they do

I think something like that shows the divide between the two philosophies: for the Marxist, in the true sense of the word, all struggle is class struggle, and the lens through which they view the world is largely based on these economic disparities

For the fascist, economic conditions are of secondary concern, with the approach there being largely pragmatic. They seem to prioritize and focus on preserving the purity and health of the people of the nation (that is the ethnogroup). Anti-immigration, early anti-smoking, anti-ponography & degeneracy laws are reflections of this

To be fair, there is a brand of conservative that says "Look how cheap clock radios are, the modern political system is a huge success", while ignoring the abysmal and atomizing effects that that system has had on pretty much everyone I know. Again, their focus is material over spiritual

[Anonymous No.15694452]

>>15694424
doest religion preassuume idealism?

[Anonymous No.15694483]

>>15694424
I meant idealized, as in romanticized, not idealism the philosophy. Although, I am interested why you think the two aren't comparable.

[Anonymous No.15694485]

>>15694435
i'v seen something similar. i looked up julius evola on various sites and saw firsthand the leftists mindset when it comes to these sorts of things (not to say that i agree with evola on everything), but i noticed a consistent pattern of doubt towards the genuine readers intentions. they assert that evola and his readers are creating some justification for their fascism, and that the whole thing is some sort of dog whistle. i would agree to an extent that there are retarded "fascists" who jumped on the evola meme train and realized that it did not represent their leftists worldview. but nonetheless, the very fact that a leftists/marxist would discard the genuine spiritual pursuit represented in such writers, shows that they only think in the material sense, and cannot fathom that someone has genuine interest in such things, and most importantly that their political views are an outgrowth of their spiritual belief rather than a post-rationalization.

[Anonymous No.15694509]

I think it depends on how you use the terminology.

If we mean right wing to mean those who believe hierarchical societies are preferable to free societies than yes, I would argue right wing types are inherently more spiritual. The left is often devoted to materialistic conceptions of society, whether that’s the capitalist who dreams of wealth or the communist whose fundamental argument is power dynamics of a material sort.

That said, I think right wing politics is often just as modernist and material. Nazism is just racial materialism taken to an extreme. Fascism might be better but without a spiritual focus you run the risk of your leader just striving for power. Monarchies are best (see Evola in Revolt...) but that line has no legs anymore.

The best outcome is for spiritual renaissance and return to traditional ethical structures. A society like that could have an organic holy leader arise even in a democracy or republic and really could make a world that’s more united.

If you’re tempted to get into trash fringe politics, wn or other ridiculous ideologies, I think you must do the following:
1. Delete Twitter
2. Go to a church EVEN if you don’t believe in the ontology of their deity. Better if you can find a church you do believe in, or a Buddhist temple or a mosque etc... but even if you’re agnostic you must still go
3. Read Guenon and Evola. Start with introduction to the Hindu Doctrines
4. Learn to be present and practice compassion towards all beings. This will also bend your political agenda from power/ revenge (common among alt right /wn) to benevolence and common order and good.

[Anonymous No.15694543]

>>15694483
i think that true spirituality incorporates a view of inherent human flaw, whereas the idealism of the left puts the blame on material circumstances.

[Anonymous No.15694549]

>>15694509
I too am waiting for someone to make ethic nationalism a reality. Where is our savior?

[Anonymous No.15694554]

>>15694509
Revenge and power is common amongst leftists too.

[Anonymous No.15694571]

>>15694509
i agree with pretty much everything you said, other than labeling nazism and current "right" politics as right-wing. current mainstream "right-wing" simply isnt right-wing at all; and nazism is a materialist longing for a past they did not understand, believing that aesthetics and empty ritual created some lost whole. it's like a kid putting on his dead fathers suit and thinking that he is embodying his essence; trying to recapture some past that he is mostly ignorant of.

[Anonymous No.15694574]

>>15694509
do you think the far-right needs to incorporate a racial element? i personally think that plain old nationalism is better since a 'racial identity' is pretty much impossible to define and also racism bad and all that

[Anonymous No.15694580]

>>15694543
I wouldn't say true spirituality views humans as flawed. Buddhist spirituality wouldn't agree with that. Christian spirituality definitely does assert fallen nature however

[Anonymous No.15694589]

>>15694574
There needs to be a spiritual/religious element that holds it together. Otherwise it will devolve into racism or statism.

[Anonymous No.15694593]

>>15694580
it depends on the terms you use. does buddhism have certain standards that delineate a right and wrong way? or at the very least a beneficial way?

[Anonymous No.15694596]

>>15694549
I am not an ethnic nationalist

>>15694554
I agree, that’s why I didn’t call a compassion and common order based politics left wing.

>>15694571
Yes, I used the term colloquially to refer to Nazis and Fascists as right wing, but I agree it’s not a true thing. I certainly don’t want to be grouped with them.

[Anonymous No.15694606]

>>15694596
I wrote ethic nationalism, not ethnic

[Anonymous No.15694610]

>>15694574
I think racism is materialist, so no. I am also of the opinion that modern racial conflict in America is a wedge utilized by those who want a divided society. These alt right types fell for exactly what the globalist left wanted them to.

[Anonymous No.15694612]

>>15694589
yeah, that's my opinion as well. Ethnonationalism/racism is kind of a LARP IMO. I've never understood why people see race as being so conducive to the transcendental when national identity is so much better in every way and is largely without racisms ugliness.

[Anonymous No.15694613]

>>15694574
>better since a 'racial identity' is pretty much impossible to define and also racism bad and all that
this only applies to "white" at the moment. we can still be italians, irish, specific, etc. also calling J's white is the way to go. people keep doing this thing where they say J's arent white, but that is helping them by taking them out of the cross-hairs. my guess is the J's arent white meme was started by them. call them white, and tell others to do also.

[Anonymous No.15694620]

>>15694606
what do you mean by ethic nationalism? how is it different from regular nationalism?

[Anonymous No.15694625]

I miss the bygone days when 4chan wasn't a ring wing faggot circlejerk.

>Inb4 LOL 4chin was always right wing

No it fucking wasn't, fuck off.

[Anonymous No.15694630]

>>15694606
Sorry, I assumed it was a typo. I think “ethic nationalism “, if you mean a nation with a common moral framework is probably the only long term way of creating a cohesive society, but it has to be built from the ground up. It can’t be willed into existence because it’s practically good, but because it is the natural consequence of a common social framework.

[Anonymous No.15694631]

>>15694593
Buddhism deals with right and wrong, but only in a way that denotes right meaning a cessation of suffering, and wrong meaning a perpetuation of suffering. I believe Buddha himself said being reincarnated as a human is a good opportunity to achieve nirvana, because one must suffer in order to do so. If we were reincarnated in more divine realms, we wouldn't suffer as much and nirvana would become less accessible as a result.

[Anonymous No.15694634]

>>15694625
you could always try to engage with our ideas. debate, discuss, read, etc. I engage with leftist ideas all the time and sometimes I find common ground, it's an enriching experience

[Anonymous No.15694639]

>>15694610
although i am not a holds hands around the world rainbow type guy, it is clear that there is an egging on of whites to "fight back". it all seems incredibly orchestrated.

[Anonymous No.15694647]

>>15694620
Regular nationalism is basically statism as far as I'm concerned. Ethic nationalism would have a strong religious or spiritual component to it, sort of like esoteric fascism but concerning goodness rather than race.

[Anonymous No.15694652]

>>15694293
Yes.
God.

[Anonymous No.15694658]

>>15694631
well, i think that the assertion that buddhist teaching doesn't see some flaw in human nature, at least as an obstruction to nirvana, is wrong. i will assert that belief systems such as buddhism are very right-wing

[Anonymous No.15694669]

>>15694647
that seems in line with what I've been thinking about. what books cover this topic well?

[Anonymous No.15694699]

>>15694658
I've been thinking about Buddhism being right-wing as of late. I haven't read pic related but I imagine it would certainly support that view. Definitely different from the Buddhism practiced by Hollywood types.

>>15694669
I don't know a book that discusses ethic nationalism specifically, considering I just made up the term. Pic related applies to you too, but I haven't read it so who knows, maybe not. I would say the books that have influenced me the most with regards to this idea are Plato's Republic and the Pali Canon

[Anonymous No.15694704]

>>15694293
>spirituality

[Anonymous No.15694725]

>>15694699
>I've been thinking about Buddhism being right-wing as of late
there is a certain thread of right-wing thought that asserts that right-wing is the (for lack of a better term) base layer. basically that most, if not all political striving is inherently left-wing. i have even heard it stated as "there is no such thing as right-wing" there is only the base reality and all deviation is a pull towards the left. i must admit that this is a very appealing way of looking at it, although i am not fully committed to the idea.

[Anonymous No.15694732]

>>15694704
explain.

[Anonymous No.15694750]

Nazism is a left wing ideology

[Anonymous No.15694760]

>>15694750
true

[Anonymous No.15694775]

>>15694699
>I've been thinking about Buddhism being right-wing as of late.
It can be. Before Tibet was annexed by China it was a feudalistic shithole where bodily mutilation was accepted as a form of punishment because outright killing was unethical under buddhism.

[Anonymous No.15694789]

>>15694293
Right-wing "thought" is inherently more retarded. I wish there were rational empirically-based rightwingers to argue with, but sadly they never show up.

[Anonymous No.15694813]

>>15694789
ok

[Anonymous No.15694822]

>>15694775
That's Chinese propaganda

[Anonymous No.15694824]

>>15694293
Right wing thought takes a romantic approach to history, with conquerors, losers, good guys and bad guys competing for a "greater good"; the homeland, the people, some ideal.
Left wing thought takes a more scientific approach. The "greater good" is a product of history, shaped by the material trends that push empires across the globe.

[Anonymous No.15694832]

Nothing about the modern left right dichotomy is spiritual

[Anonymous No.15694834]

>>15694824
which would you say is correct? which would you say is better?

[Anonymous No.15694835]

>>15694293
communism calls for making religion superfluous.
along with traditions.
literally worker bots for the state.

[Anonymous No.15694839]

>>15694824
>bro, its SCIENCE, see, it says SCIENTIFIC right there, there's absolutely nothing romantic or Fichtean in talking about the collective consciousness of the proletariat or the conflict of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie, dude trust me and it's certainly not secularized eschatalogy noooooooooooo

Retard.

[Anonymous No.15694843]

>>15694822
It's corroberated by Western missionaries. Tibet was genuinely a shithole before China whether you believe annexation was right or wrong.

[Anonymous No.15694849]

>>15694824
you think the left way is better then?

[Anonymous No.15694850]

>>15694293
not inherently, in the present most leftwing thought is rooted in marx or else postmodernism/deconstructivism, neither of which is kind to religion. but the tables could turn eventually

[Anonymous No.15694851]

>>15694839
not him, but define what you consider "bourgeoisie"

[Anonymous No.15694856]

>>15694839
based sarcasm poster

[Anonymous No.15694862]

>>15694509
>Go to a church EVEN if you don’t believe in the ontology of their deity
I really disagree with sending racist atheists to church. What are they supposed to do there? They've been to church before. If this is supposed to reform their thinking I don't think it works that way. Certainly the last thing any faith wants is an influx of ideological entryists who are going because they need to justify their ethics or they like gothic architecture.

[Anonymous No.15694867]

>>15694835
Does the nature of wage labor change if you add a religious element to it?
>>15694839
This is something you might reasonably come to believe if you've read the communist manifesto and nothing else.

[Anonymous No.15694877]

>>15694580
There is no Buddhist spirituality. You don't have an individuated spooky substance. This is just a term used for translation/marketing purposes by protestantized converts. There is consciousness which arises in dependence on contact with the manifold of phenomena which should not be mistaken for an eternal unchanging self/soul/spirit/etc.

[Anonymous No.15694884]

>>15694867
>This is something you might reasonably come to believe if you've read the communist manifesto and nothing else.

I wouldn't try this angle if I were you. Marxism gets less and less grounded in any form of actual science with each reform it goes through after Marx & Engels.

[Anonymous No.15694888]

>>15694867
>does the nature of...
I don't know. probably. do communists ever get a chance to self-actualize waiting in ration lines and starving and getting shot by their leaders?

[Anonymous No.15694896]

>>15694574
>>15694589
What is "plain old nationalism" if not the intersection of racism and statism? It is only very recently that you have unracial nationalisms, in the postwar environment . You are jumping through strange hoops to preserve an -ism which tends to break down without the state to affect nationality upon a culturally and historically related human substance.

[Anonymous No.15694912]

not trying to pol-bait here or whatever, honestly.
but have any of you ever read this book? i think it would clear up alot of misunderstanding between 2 factions of people who are inherently different. this difference possibly transcends differences in race, though that is probably a crucial element.

[Anonymous No.15694913]

>>15694293
Left wing spirituality is always some LARPy astrology and crystal shit for dimwits. They are soulless.
On the other hand, people on the right are members of a cult and believe Jews moonwalk in the bathtub

[Anonymous No.15694927]

>>15694912
never heard of it. quick summary?

[Anonymous No.15694934]

>>15694927
jew author writes about essential differences between jews and gentiles. likens the gentile utopia to plato's republic, contrasted to the jewish utopia which is... well idk. i honestly havent read the whole thing. its short though.

[Anonymous No.15694939]

>>15694658
>>15694699
Evola's case for 'right-wing' Buddhism is a Pali-only interpretation that reads Aryan racial theory into Buddhism (Aryan means Noble in Sanskrit; Buddha was a kshatriya who taught the Four Aryan Truths) and treats the asceticism and discipline of Buddhism as an aristocratic praxis. Irrespective of his opinions, deciding which church you want to attend based on whether it is based or not is the worst sort of quest for realization. Be a good hyperprotestant and read the texts for yourself, and do not rely only on modern commentaries. The Buddha was not interested in cyberwarfare between different groups of racially schizophrenic amerimutts when he gave his sermons, so you are going to have to interpret it.

[Anonymous No.15694945]

>>15694824
Right has the great man theory. Left has great man's theory (Marxism).

[Anonymous No.15694948]

>>15694934
in the future, read and understand a work before prescribing it as a solution to anything

[Anonymous No.15694966]

>>15694912
>>15694927
If you want to read a polemic about the subject, look into a book Freud was afraid to publish until he moved to England, Moses and Monotheism

[Anonymous No.15694971]

>>15694939
your language seethes with hatred. i agree with some of what of you said, but as a piece of advice, it's really hard to take someones point when they overtly hold you in contempt.

[Anonymous No.15694984]

>>15694834
>>15694849
I find it useful for understanding, say, the current unrest in the US. It doesn't make sense to start breaking shit over a single instance of police brutality; the demonstrators are largely poor, unemployed, and have no economic net to fall back on. Is their anger "revolutionary"? I don't know, but these conditions parallel 1968, 1992, 2014, and 2015. The water is simply boiling over.
>>15694839
There is no fantastic scene where everyone "wakes up" and takes to the streets. I don't pine on moments and neither should any disciplined party.

[Anonymous No.15694989]

>>15694971
I do not hold (You) in contempt, but the notion of making one's religion downstream of their politics is contemptible. It is materialism appropriating a higher domain to make itself feel secure. It is consoomer. It is burgerpunk. It is protestantized.

[Anonymous No.15694995]

>>15694966
ever read any Eustace Mullins?

[Anonymous No.15695004]

>>15694884
Marxism explains itself very plainly, nothing is dressed up in romanticism or religiosity save for the manifesto. Contending seriously with the claims is good but dismissing a school of thought based on a text meant for plebs is dishonest.

[Anonymous No.15695008]

>>15694995
No, but skimming his bio it would appear his critique of central banking has been buried by his anti-semitic writing.

[Anonymous No.15695010]

>>15694305
>in that, we favor tradition over progress sure
got i hate this phrasing. i hope you people know that its possible to progress as a society while understanding that some traditions are traditions for good reason as they often relate to human nature and helping individuals and a society be the best they can be. monopoly on "progress" is not held by so called "progressives", there is more than one potential path forward, there are more options in life than returning to the stone age and parading in the streets celebrating dudes shoving stuff in their assholes

[Anonymous No.15695014]

>>15694989
as far as i know, everything i (op) have said has asserted that exact thing. so either you are mistaken in attributing something to me that i didnt say, or i misspoke somewhere alone the line.

i think i said your same points in my comments here >>15694395 >>15694485 >>15694571

does this not line up with what you said? if not, explain it to me

[Anonymous No.15695018]

>>15695004
The withering away of the state has to be the most prophetic utterance anyone has ever put to pen. Not in the sense of being prescient but that we must wait and toil until the unknowable day arrives , having faith in the ravings of the bearded holy man

[Anonymous No.15695019]

>>15695008
does that worry you?

[Anonymous No.15695027]

>>15695014
I am critical of the application of the right/left dichotomy to Buddhism, or any religion. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.15695037]

>>15695019
It helps the banks a great deal if their critics are pariahs, doesn't it?

[Anonymous No.15695042]

>>15695019
You wanna know what worries me?

[Anonymous No.15695048]

>>15695037
would you consider ezra pound a pariah?
>>15695042
sure

[Anonymous No.15695056]

>>15695018
That concept comes from Engels and makes more sense in the context of Engels' views on the origins and development of the state.

[Anonymous No.15695060]

>>15695048

[Anonymous No.15695063]

>>15694293
right-wing thought is openly irrationalist

[Anonymous No.15695065]

>>15695027
fair enough. i personally think it's clear as day, but we'll have to agree to disagree

[Anonymous No.15695068]

>>15695060
get a load of the bunda on that thing

[cc No.15695070]

>>15694293
more happy and healthy you are more spiritual you are.

[Anonymous No.15695476]

>>15694293
That profane is left or evil and the sacred is right or good, is itself a degenerated idea. The sacred, true spirituality, comes both in right and left poles, of order and disorder, respect and transgression, initiation and counter-initiation we might say... The yawning gap removed therefrom, of the profane, homogeneity, quantity... all this is the real problem, which can be assigned to our pseudo-left, sure, but to any "real left"? (Well, they're still rather non-spiritual and dull, but so it must be with a lot of the right, too, all of politics; counter to liberal depoliticization, one depoliticizes better--to get to religion. In this regard we do not align with Marx; sooner a Fourier, or a Sade.)

[Anonymous No.15696496]

>>15694293
Marxist Dialectical Materialism is tends towards raw anti-church idiocy in the plebs and sophisticated idiotic materialism in the aristocracy. The Right on the other hand are church goers in the plebians but esoterics in the aristocracy.

[Anonymous No.15696511]

Of course, the entire crux of right-wing thought is to deny the reality of death and to seek immortality through bloodline, race, idea and so on.

[Anonymous No.15696588]

>>15694293
No, right-wing ‘spirituality’ is just meaningless bullshit that right-wingers sprout to justify their autism and obsession for power

[Anonymous No.15696637]

>>15696588
its time to dilate

[Anonymous No.15696644]

>>15694293
>if so why?

Marxism is rooted on materialism
Marxism is the prevailing undercurrent of leftist thought

[Anonymous No.15696648]

>>15694750
yes, everything revolutionary is left-wing deep down. revolutionary mindset permeates all the political movements of modernity

[Anonymous No.15696652]

>>15696644
>>15696648
This

[Anonymous No.15696660]

>>15696652
no, anon, revolutionary = bad

[Anonymous No.15696666]

>>15696660
Yes I agree, just showing the point with thier own memes

[Anonymous No.15696676]

Yes, Guénon is alt-right, buy his merch and keep owning leftoids on twitter

[Anonymous No.15696683]

>>15696648
>everything revolutionary is left-wing deep down
hahahahaha, sure. that's why all the relevant contemporary orthodox marxist revolutionaries (french, of course) all reject the left-right dichotomy, are vocal about the left being the avant-garde of capital etc etc...

but let's have a bunch of cia brainwashed anglos teach you all about history of politics

[Anonymous No.15696924]

I’d just like to remind you guys that egyptian Theocratic regime lasted for four thousand years. Non-secular Absolutist Monarchy and Ultramontanism are the only comparable regimes that could support such an harmonic and safe society. All others are result of sentimentalism.

[Anonymous No.15697522]

>>15694293
I go to mass despite being an atheist. I asume I do it because I want to feel part of something, but I whole-heatedly believe that, despite the idea of a god being kind of ludicrous, relgion is more important than ever. What leftist blame capitalism of, especially midle-upper class millenials and zoomers, is not "late-stage capitalism alienation" but spiritual emptiness.

Maybe religion helps me accept my place in this world, and ndure it with dignity.

[Anonymous No.15697542]

Neither. At the core right wingers view religion as a means to enforce their wordly policies, and leftists view it like this too. Genuinely spiritual people dont involve themselves in politics at all, which is based and enlightened

[Anonymous No.15697562]

>>15694824
>Left wing thought takes a more scientific approach
lmao you retards literally believe in an ultimate sublation and resolution of all contradictions by the elimination of economic classes and a subsequent withering away of the state, one can hardly get less scientific than that. read Carl Schmitt

[Anonymous No.15697566]

>>15694293
Because left-wing thought is dominated by Marx the Materialist.

[Anonymous No.15697592]

>>15696924
>Non-secular Absolutist Monarchy and Ultramontanism are the only comparable regimes that could support such an harmonic and safe society.
Which why monarchist France lasted barely 4 centuries....

[Anonymous No.15697670]

>>15697592
Post-reformation monarchies were already getting corrupt, still it is more than liberal democracies

[Anonymous No.15697947]

>>15694647
so basically confucianism state?

[Anonymous No.15699235]

>>15697562
what about this is unscientific?

[Anonymous No.15699303]

>>15694732
He can't. He just thinks that that reaction image means that he totes pwnd u.

[Anonymous No.15700518]

>>15694293
There is no right wing, or left wing. Stop with that already.
There is only the material production, and what it requires, what it needs, which express itself into something called political economy, Left or right political economy, it's almost the same. Did mass immigration stoped with Donald Trump election? Was gay marriage abolished with Donald Trump election? No.

[Anonymous No.15700725]

>>15694699
Buddhism is not right-wing, nor left-wing. Such poor concepts aren't applied in buddhism. I have read the Pali Canon trying to find any political view of the Tathagatha. I can't even say he was a monarchist, although all of his interactions were with kings. But he mentioned a previous life as a Cakravartin (i.e. King of the World). It's told by him to Ananda during the context of Buddha's illness and iminent paranirvana. He used the tale to ensure that even as a Chakravartin he wouldn't be able to reach the ultimate purpose the he finally found as Siddharta. He predicts the comming of a new Cakravartin, and during this time Maitreya will also come to teach a put the wheel of dhamma in motion once again.

[Anonymous No.15700746]

>>15695010
If you believe in "progress", you are not really rightwing.

[Anonymous No.15700802]

>>15696683
Who are these orthodox marxist revolutionaries? I'm curious

[Anonymous No.15700812]

>>15694293
No, right wingers are capitalists which makes them materialists and not the least bit spiritual. Third Positionists are the only spiritual ones.

[Anonymous No.15700847]

>>15700812
This. Right/Left dichotomy is a cage made to ensure that there wouldn't ascend any spiritual political power. Reminding that religion is not intrinsically spiritual. Protestants are extremelly materialistic, for instance.

[Anonymous No.15700873]

>>15694293
>>15694305
you mean conservative, which is it's own thing

[Anonymous No.15701141]

>>15694634
different guy here, mildly libertarian and mildly leftist
I can agree there are moral right-wingers but I don't think core right-wing ideology is very moral because it, at least in all I've seen, it precludes helping people who can't help themselves, e.g. someone who is mentally or physically disabled to the point they can't take care of theirself

[Anonymous No.15701147]

>>15701141
it doesn't though, that's called charity. It precludes welfare

[Anonymous No.15701233]

>>15701147
charity demonstrably can't cover everyone, to paraphrase Dickens there are not enough poorhouses, and it's immoral to let anyone who can't care for theirself go un-cared-for

[Anonymous No.15701280]

>>15701233
That's pretty different from a blank refusal to help anyone at all no matter what though. Welfare is kind of the opposite of that, a mandate that everyone must be helped at all times no matter what. Charity is "we'll help as much as we can, on our terms."

[Anonymous No.15701305]

>>15700812
Capitalism is inherently left wing

[Anonymous No.15702651]

>>15701305
Reversal.

[Anonymous No.15702848]

Right is definitely more self reflective which leads them toward self improvement and seeing people accountable for their mistakes. Which is how religion tries to reform the world, by making people better.
Leftists are less self-aware, make the system or a specific class accountable for all problems and use master-slave dialectics to excuse their group and demonize others. That's why they are revolutionary and destructive.

[Anonymous No.15702876]

>>15700847
Protestants as a group are just as materialistic as any other large religious group. Difference is that Protestantism, reformed theology, is correct and best way to approach the bible and God.

[Anonymous No.15702926]

>>15701233
It's immoral to force taxation and welfare burdens on people, forced charity via gov threat is violence. Contrary to stupid western materialism there's nothing immoral about living in poverty. The poor have an easier time depending on God than the rich. So we have no duty towards them, we should envy them.
Poverty in the west is not a crisis, in fact it's good.

Poverty is only a problem in the 3rd world where it means starving or dying of thirst. But countries have no duty to other countries and foreign aid does more harm than good.

[Anonymous No.15703791]

>>15697542
>Genuinely spiritual people dont involve themselves in politics at all, which is based and enlightened
this is how you know the watchtower society is the real deal

[Anonymous No.15704304]

>>15703791
>this is how you know the watchtower society is still a small and weak cult
fixed

[Anonymous No.15704386]

>>15694293
Left wing thought is entirely spiritual. Its just that instead of enriching said spirit, they want to consume it.

[Anonymous No.15704398]

>>15694485
They project.

[Anonymous No.15704698]

>>15702926
Poverty in America is meth, niggers, and poor air quality. The only thing that's keeping them to their faith is a wish for an afterlife

[IGNORANT™ No.15704711]

>>15694293
Religion is the bastion of the slave, the duped, and the liar.

simple as

[Anonymous No.15704717]

>>15694625
You can return to reddit anytime you want, nigger

[Anonymous No.15704737]

>>15694625
>people having a reasonable discussion about political ideology
>Yikesarino GET THIS NAZI TRASH OUTTA HERE Y'ALL

[Anonymous No.15704748]

>>15694293
Because only right-wing people have souls to begin with. Leftoids are essentially automatons, the beasts of the field mentioned in the bible.

[Anonymous No.15704802]

>>15694293
There is nothing but "the left-wing" nowaday. The left is acceleration itself. The right-wing wants to slow down this acceleration but the resistence is futile. There is no true right wing except of true spirituality. Exiting the eternal wheel of transformations of becoming by centering yourself in pure Being.

[Anonymous No.15704866]

>>15694293
Guenon was left wing (politically)

[Anonymous No.15704871]

>>15704802
pay your tranny hookers more - they arent working for you

[Anonymous No.15704876]

>>15694824
>Left wing thought takes a more scientific approach

[Anonymous No.15704883]

>>15699235
You cannot repeatedly test and observe it. By definition it is not scientific.

[Anonymous No.15705076]

>>15704876
Based. Don't let these evolutionist cocksuckers lie to your younguns.

[Anonymous No.15705086]

>>15705076
it's really not the right who don't like evolution these days..

[Anonymous No.15705103]

>>15705076
It's the other way around: leftists deny biological differences stemming from the evolution process

[Anonymous No.15706373]

>>15694789
>The reason no one argues with me is because they are all irrational
>Has nothing to do with my outright dismissive and insulting attitude that turns off anyone looking to have an actual discussion

[Anonymous No.15706560]

>>15694896
This. So many people in the thread are missing the inherent ethnic component of nationalism.

[Anonymous No.15706568]

It's less atheistic and irreligious.

[Anonymous No.15706621]

>>15705076
>The left believes in evolution, or is congruent with it at all

[Anonymous No.15706659]

>And concerning that abject and ignoble saying, "If there were not a God it would be necessary to invent Him," we shall say nothing. It is the expression of the unclean scepticism of those conservatives who look upon religion merely as a means of government and whose interest it is that in the other life there shall be a hell for those who oppose their worldly interests in this life. This repugnant and Sadducean phrase is worthy of the time-serving sceptic to whom it is attributed.

>No, with all this the deep vital sense has nothing to do. It has nothing to do with a transcendental police regimen, or with securing order—and what an order!—upon earth by means of promises and threats of eternal rewards and punishments after death. All this belongs to a lower plane—that is to say, it is merely politics, or if you like, ethics. The vital sense has to do with living.

[Anonymous No.15707831]

>>15705086
>>15705103
>>15706621
>pretending creationists don't exist because hurr durr libtards won't admit niggers are stoopid
embarrassing

[Anonymous No.15708289]

>>15694293
Foeurbach fucked us all, big sorry

[Anonymous No.15708361]

>>15707831
creationism is not incompatible with evolutionary theory you dumb fuck

[Anonymous No.15708378]

>>15694305
fpbp

[pada No.15708384]

>>15708289
recommend feuerbach literature?? i'd love to get started with him :)

[Anonymous No.15708388]

>>15694293
Culturally the right is oriented toward the past, while the left is oriented toward the future. The right wants to preserve the past, while the left wants to emancipate itself from the past.

[Anonymous No.15708408]

>>15700725
When I said Buddhism was right-wing, I didn't mean it in a political sense, although you are right, he does speak of "wheel turning monarchs", but that's probably more of a product of his time period than a political view. By saying it was right-wing I only meant to suggest that there is a reason Mahayana appeals to left types whereas Theravada appeals to right types. The way I see it right and left represent ways of conceptualizing, and this conceptualization effects everything to political views and religious views

[Anonymous No.15708410]

>>15694293
Marxism covers like 90% of leftist ideologies and is strictly materialistic. It's not that the right wing is inherently spiritual, its that the left wing is inherently materialistic. If anything i think the amount of spirituality in right wing ideology is completely normal and proportionate with the fact that its controlled by human beings (a naturally spiritualistic animal). Yes you could say that the right wing is "more spiritual" but i would argue it is simply more human.

[Anonymous No.15708506]

>>15702926
by that standard any taxation is wrong which means any actual nation can't exist, which is absurd
and we do have a duty to the poor, check your Bible again

[Anonymous No.15708518]

>>15701280
that's nice but it doesn't address the what a charity is supposed to do about an adult with the mind of a child or someone who is paralyzed
clearly they should be taken care of by family but not all families are equipped to do so and some don't have any family

[Anonymous No.15708565]

>>15708361
as a former creationist who still doesn't discount it entirely, you're wrong, the Biblical story would have to be stretched massively to comport with the big bang and evolution

[Anonymous No.15708576]

>>15708518
Survival of the fittest. If it weren't for bleeding heart faggots like you we wouldn't have genetic defectives anymore.

[Anonymous No.15708584]

>>15708408
would you stop mixing up right and left with conservative and liberal? right and left are economic philosophies, conservatism and liberalism are cultural

[Anonymous No.15708747]

>>15708565
Ok retard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_creation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution

[Anonymous No.15708760]

>>15708584
You're retarded

[Anonymous No.15710161]

>>15708760
Nice rebuttal, wank stain.

[Anonymous No.15710178]

>>15708584
>right and left are economic philosophies,
according to marxists and nobody else. The terms were not created to refer to economics, and the majority of people in the world don't use them to refer only to economics.

[Anonymous No.15710260]

>>15708410
>the left wing is inherently materialistic.
jesus was an ancap confirmed

[Anonymous No.15710287]

>>15710260
jesus was apolitical

[Anonymous No.15710308]

>>15710287
He was definitely lefty

[Anonymous No.15710314]

>>15710308
He was a magic man

[Anonymous No.15710315]

>>15710308
he definitely did not advocate for seizing the means of production so no he was not

[Anonymous No.15710328]

>>15710315
but he hated the rich, so he is pretty much a comrade

[Anonymous No.15710332]

>>15710328
he is not your comrade, because he explicitly tells you not to seek power, to give up what is yours, not to enact your political will.

charity is not welfare or communism

[Anonymous No.15710348]

>>15710328
and he did not hate the rich, he said it was hard for them to get into heaven. he forgives anyone who believes in him

[Anonymous No.15710389]

>>15710348
What economic system do you think better aligns with caring for the poor, fiscal conservatism?

[Anonymous No.15710398]

>>15710389
It doesn't matter, it doesn't concern you. You can give away what you have yourself to the poor, you can't try to seek political power and force people to do stuff.

[Anonymous No.15710403]

>>15710348
>said it was hard for them
That's quite the understatement.

[Anonymous No.15710438]

>>15710398
Surely it does, if you actually want to make real change in the world politics is the way to do it, charity is just virtue signaling

[Anonymous No.15710554]

>>15710315
left doesnt mean far left

[Anonymous No.15710878]

>>15710348
He said it would be easier for a camel to be shoved through the eye of a needle (an impossible task).
The rich guy then gave up all his possession to follow Him.
You conservative Christian cunts are just completely full of shit huh?

[Anonymous No.15711116]

>>15707831
>Because your side has a disagreement on science my side is 100% correct in all its scientific presuppositions
Yeah, sure, creationists exist, does that make the left somehow not in denial of evolution?

[Anonymous No.15711128]

>>15710438
>this is the guy who was just telling everyone what Jesus' political position was, despite clearly having no idea what he's talking about, with an undeservedly self-righteous tone

[Anonymous No.15711136]

>>15694625
/pol/ was a mistake, I clearly remember the great stormfront migration. White nationalists have always targetted troubled young males, 4chan was unfortunately a perfect breeding ground to poz incels minds and ruin an entire generation

[Anonymous No.15711140]

>>15704386
You probably thought that was profound but it genuinely makes no sense at all

[pada No.15711350]

>>15711136
what a retarded way to think. is this how you rationalize every ideology that's inconvenient for you?

[Anonymous No.15711406]

>>15711350
Nope, I'm specifically talking about a single ideology and how it's been spread on this site through years of shilling. In the 2000s stormfront was mostly comprised of retarded hick boomers and schizos, somewhere down the line they realized that 4chan was a good way to spread their ideas

[pada No.15711448]

>>15711406
very nuanced take. do you dress yourself?

[Anonymous No.15712057]

>>15708576
Based. There's nothing wrong with charity to those who by life circumstances find themselves unable to care for themselves , being an otherwise able bodied and minded person beforehand. But those who are born or predisposed to defects should not exist, or at the very least allowed to reproduce. Without a filter the weak and defective will proliferate and burden society immensely. Allowing them to exist is allowing them and by extension their supporters to suffer

[Anonymous No.15712494]

>>15710878
>an impossible task
Incorrect, read the book again and stop using Jesus as a political tool if you don't know the first thing about Christian theology.

[Anonymous No.15712528]

>>15712494
not an argument

[Anonymous No.15712537]

>>15712528
Compared to the grade 9 mad at your father reddit tier anti christian talking points you are pulling out? Literally every 12 year old on facebook is saying the same shit and its not even true. Literally just read the fucking book before you talk about it you midwit.

[Anonymous No.15712551]

>>15712537
>durr the book says the opposite of what it says cuz theology!!
If you had a rebuttal you would have presented it already, faggot. Stop embarrassing yourself.

[Anonymous No.15712562]

>>15712537
Also I didn't say anything anti-Christian, just anti-Christian conservative. Your delusional belief about Jesus as some pro-materialistic nationalist goon has nothing to do with all that armchair psychology you just vomited out either.

[Anonymous No.15712569]

>>15712551
>>15712562
Yeesh just read the bible bro its not as long as you think it is

[Anonymous No.15712595]

>>15712569
Thanks for your concession of defeat.

[Anonymous No.15712606]

>>15712595
Keep seething 12 year old, i'm sure daddy will love you one day.

[Anonymous No.15712632]

>>15712606
>Keep seething
>literally throws temper tantrum when proven wrong with his own sacred tome
SAD

[Anonymous No.15712642]

>>15712632
Lol seething child projecting
18+ site buddy

[Anonymous No.15712782]

>>15694485
This is actually a fascinating analyses, applied to Christians it suggest they claim pagans are larping, because they themselves lack any sense of the religious and spiritual.

[Anonymous No.15712788]

>>15694293
yikes! what a retarded question

[Anonymous No.15713634]

>>15694293
Communism

[Anonymous No.15713646]

>>15710878
>The rich guy then gave up all his possession to follow Him.
That's exactly what I said. I said charity is what he taught, giving up what you own.
>You conservative Christian cunts are just completely full of shit huh?
I am neither Christian nor conservative, I simply respect Jesus and I despise when people politicize a man who explicitly taught not to seek power. You cannot engage in politics without seeking power.

[Anonymous No.15713660]

>>15710438
Unbelievable.
>charity is just virtue signalling
Charity is the highest virtue in Christianity.
>if you want to make a real change in the world
This is a euphemism for grabbing power. You want to be in charge of other people and tell them what to do. You make a real change in the world by helping others, by personally giving to them. Jesus said nothing about trying to overthrow Caesar did he? He said to leave it be.

[Anonymous No.15713952]

Both the left and the right are evil Saturnian cults. Yes, Turd Positionists, this includes you guys too

[Anonymous No.15713956]

>>15694293
Satanism which is objectively material, is the closest thing to spiritual the left are capable of.

[Anonymous No.15714100]

The best left-wing is that which is Satanist in the Luciferian sense, in the sense of the bringer of illumination and autonomy. Sadly most of the left are just a bunch of collectivist cucks

>>15708576
>>15712057
Psychopathic social darwinist scum

[Anonymous No.15714103]

>>15695010
Surely this is bait

[Anonymous No.15714571]

>>15713660
this

[Anonymous No.15714779]

>>15713660
>This is a euphemism for grabbing power. You want to be in charge of other people and tell them what to do. You make a real change in the world by helping others, by personally giving to them. Jesus said nothing about trying to overthrow Caesar did he? He said to leave it be.
By that logic no one should ever engage in politics, since it is all corrupt power grabbing. If everyone followed that logic there wouldn't be any political institutions and the world would be run by mob gangs. Is that the Christian utopia you want?
Or maybe you can acknowledge the fact that politics are a part of human life, and you can pose the question of what type of politics better align witth your values.

[Anonymous No.15714793]

>>15697566
This. Marx killed socialism. Marx killed the left.

[Anonymous No.15714820]

>>15714779
>the world would be run by mob gangs.
It literally is, always has been, and always will be. Even if you start with the best of intentions, which very few politically inclined people do, you will just become a monster in that world. If you're born into power then you are forced to do what you can or abandon it if you feel there is nothing to be done, but if you're not then there is no justification for seeking it. You will always do more good on a local scale being good to those around you however you can, than by agitating to get power and institute political programs which literally never accomplish what they were ostensibly supposed to anyway, even when they aren't dishonest masks for other motives.

[Anonymous No.15714825]

No. Much of South American leftism is heavily Christian. The old school socialist Zionist movement back in the 10s-30s was also pretty religious.

[Anonymous No.15714892]

>>15714825
>spiritual = religious

[Anonymous No.15714939]

>>15714820
>It literally is, always has been, and always will be.
That's a cop out. It is obviously true that the world could be a lot worse than it is now if there was no law enforcement for example, so your argument fails. If every person who was involved in politics were to follow your advice and abandon his position to focus on donating to charity or whatever society would crumble to dust the next day. Hence politics are unavoidable, and the only question is what system favours better compared to the rest.

[Anonymous No.15714955]

>>15714939
You can do what you like but you can't call your political goals Christian. He formed a community of powerless, propertyless peasants, and told them to obey Caesar and the law.

[Anonymous No.15714969]

>>15714779
>By that logic no one should ever engage in politics, since it is all corrupt power grabbing.
Yes.

[Anonymous No.15715003]

>>15714969
The only thing you would achieve is everyone's quality of like sinking to shit.

[Anonymous No.15715023]

>>15714955
>You can do what you like but you can't call your political goals Christian.
Sure I can, since it best aligns with the Christian ideals. And I would also call your anti-political stance profoundly anti-christian, since if it were to be realized in practice it would maximize misery.

[Anonymous No.15715028]

>>15715003
You frame even your hypotheticals in an illusion of dictatorial power. Your own actions are practically superfluous, you can't change the world. You can change the small environment you live in, you can be kind to those around you.

You can't impact what everyone does. The phrase 'if everyone acted like you' is a confusion, everyone will not act like you. You can enter their world of politics and attempt to force people to be good if you want. Good luck.

If everyone truly acted according to Christ the world would have no violence at all. That will never happen.

[Anonymous No.15715037]

>>15715023
No revolutionary has ever gotten rid of evil and violence and they never will. They often do much more harm than good.

[Anonymous No.15715065]

Typically right-wingers are more traditionally religious, but I would say that both right and left wingers are both very spiritual. They may conceive of their philosophies and ideals in materialistic terms but ultimately the vision of the ideal and the movement toward it is spiritual, if you accept there is such a thing as spiritual

[Anonymous No.15715132]

>>15715028
No I am not, I am framing it in term of political governance. And the fact that an individual alone can't change much is irrelevant, because political action is collective action.

[Anonymous No.15715162]

>>15715037
Godd thing I never said that it is feasible goal to want to amke the world completely perfect. What I said is that it is perfectly justified to call political action christian if said political action aligns well with christian principles, and self-righteous proposals to abstain for politics are entirely anti-christian and would lead to chaos if they were to be collectively adopted.

[Anonymous No.15715184]

>>15715162
>>15715132
>if they were to be collectively adopted.
Again they will not be, and if they were truly universally adopted they would lead the world to peace.

Im curious in what part of the New Testament do you see literally anything about trying to enter politics?

[Anonymous No.15715695]

>>15715184
>Again they will not be, and if they were truly universally adopted they would lead the world to peace.
That's completely irrelevant, you can't give a positive ethical prescription and when confronted with the disastrous consequences it would bring respond with "well, people aren't going to follow my prescriptions anyway". So when you say "You can give away what you have yourself to the poor, you can't try to seek political power and force people to do stuff", I am pointing out that this is in fact an absurd and immoral prescription, whether people are going to fall for it or not.
>Im curious in what part of the New Testament do you see literally anything about trying to enter politics?
Christianity has its own values and principles, and using these principles actions can be evaluated, and political actions do not differ from any other actions in their capacity to be virtuous or vicious. Since political systems can be morally evaluated according to these principles, it follows that there is such a thing as Christian and anti-Christian politics. For example, the suggestion that we should refrain from politics is anti-Christian, since it would result in a law of the jungle state of affairs, which is obviously immoral.

[Anonymous No.15715733]

>>15715695
>the disastrous consequences
I already pointed out that in your dream scenario of everyone listening to what you say, it would have beneficial consequences, not disastrous ones.

So when Christ says give unto Caesar what is Caesar's what does that mean to you? Because I fail to see how it means that you should usurp Caesar's power.

[Anonymous No.15715794]

>>15715695
also you seem more concerned with material gain than your soul being saved. Your soul is not saved by getting more stuff, you aren't helping anyone get into heaven by giving them wealth or power.

[Anonymous No.15715818]

>>15695010
This.

[Anonymous No.15715976]

>>15700746
Bruh, least of all the nazis made a great deal of research towards jet and rocket technology, if that ain't progress I don't know what is.

[Anonymous No.15716034]

>>15704802
Yes returning back to anarchy/tribalistic collective societies is such an acceleration. Or in the statist alternative killing your own people/starving them to death. I guess it's all futile guys, let's just shut up finally.

[Anonymous No.15716090]

>>15708388
Spirituality isn't the past, unless you truly believe materialism is the future.

[Anonymous No.15716397]

The only way the left and the right can come together is via spirituality. Otherwise they will fight like crazy. Just look at the death-toll on the eastern front in WW2. HUUUGE casualties on both the Nazi and Soviet sides. We're talking monumental numbers of casualties. Truly a nightmare scenario.

[Anonymous No.15716474]

>>15714100
Bleeding heart moron.

[Anonymous No.15716643]

>>15715733
>I already pointed out that in your dream scenario of everyone listening to what you say
This is the same dumb strawman you used in your previous post and I already addressed it. When I criticize your ethical prescriptions, it is no good to reply the unlikelihood of everyone adopting your stance. Of course this is not going to happen. What I am criticizing is the morality of the prescription - simply put, if people where to take your stance of denouncing politics as power games the world would become demonstrably worse. Also, notice that I am not claiming that everyone has a moral obligation to be actively involved in politics in his day to day life - what I am claiming is that 1) discounting all political action as always corrupt and insisting that no one should ever engage in them is morally preposterous and 2) there is such a thing as Christian and anti-Christian politics, naturally reflecting Christian and anti-Christian ethics.
>So when Christ says give unto Caesar what is Caesar's what does that mean to you? Because I fail to see how it means that you should usurp Caesar's power.
Are there any actual arguments that support your position besides strawmaning and idly throwing quotations around? I already made the case that Christianity has certain values and principles that can be used to morally evaluate actions, including political actions, which demonstrates that there is such a thing as christian and anti-christian politics. No one is talking about usurping the Caesar, address the actual argument.

[Anonymous No.15716704]

>>15716643
>What I am criticizing is the morality of the prescription - simply put, if people where to take your stance of denouncing politics as power games the world would become demonstrably worse.
good god you're illiterate. I've said like 3 times now that if everyone took my stance of denouncing politics the world would massively improve, since nobody would seek power over anyone else. Everyone would act christlike.

And I think looking at what Jesus actually did(form an apolitical community based around giving away your possessions) and said(don't bother fucking with the government, just do what they say) is highly relevant to the subject.

[Anonymous No.15716814]

>>15714100
pussy beta numale cuck

[Anonymous No.15716974]

>>15714100
You're exactly the type of person that's putting forth the destruction of the west.

[Anonymous No.15717031]

>>15716974
>the west is built on greed and disregard of human life
maybe it shouldn't survive

[Anonymous No.15717893]

>>15716704
>good god you're illiterate. I've said like 3 times now that if everyone took my stance of denouncing politics the world would massively improve, since nobody would seek power over anyone else. Everyone would act christlike.
You can't possibly be that naive. Do you think that there aren't other incentives to seek power besides politics? If no one cared about politics there wouldn't be a law enforcement system and you could literally get away with any kind of atrocity. How would you even secure access to water and electricity to people without some body of government taking care of it. Please consider thinking for more than 5 minutes your radical postpolitical ideology before unleashing it to the world to see.

[Anonymous No.15717902]

>>15717893
If everyone emulated Christ, ie. pacifism, not seeking power, charity, etc. then there would be no problem. this way of being is also apolitical

[Anonymous No.15717906]

>>15717902
I thought you liked realistic proposals

[Anonymous No.15717918]

>>15717906
>What I am criticizing is the morality of the prescription - simply put, if people where to take your stance of denouncing politics as power games the world would become demonstrably worse.

[Anonymous No.15717942]

>>15716974
Except that "The West" was never build on social darwinist principles. You don't get to claim the western intellectual tradition for meme ideologies no one ever took seriously before the 20th century.

[Anonymous No.15718000]

>>15717918
Are you unable to grasp any kind of subtlety or just pretending for the lulz? I can perfectly well criticize an ideology for its flawed premises even if it is never in fact adopted by people. I can also simultaneously criticize ridiculous proposals like "let's just stop caring about power and live our lives following the dictum of universal brotherly love".

[Anonymous No.15718014]

>>15718000
You will have about as much success with whatever political goal you have in mind as someone would trying to create universal harmony. Look at all of human history.

Again look at what Christ actually did. Consider why you care more about material gain than saving your soul and the souls of others.

[Anonymous No.15718441]

>>15718014
>You will have about as much success with whatever political goal you have in mind as someone would trying to create universal harmony. Look at all of human history.
That's just empirically false, there are innumerable examples of political reforms during history, but the universal love ideal is obviously utopian and unattainable.
Also, you originally claimed that there is something deeply wrong with engaging in politics and that there is no such thing as Christian politics, now it seems you are backing off to more modest claims.
>Consider why you care more about material gain than saving your soul and the souls of others.
What kind of absurd moral system doesn't include mental and physical well being in its conception of the good, I don't think even you believe that.

[Anonymous No.15719258]

>>15695010
No there is not.

[Anonymous No.15719555]

>>15712782
Not really analogous given that everyone agrees that neo pagans (emphasis on neo) are larpers.
I'm not a Christian, but the state of affairs is blatantly obvious.

[Anonymous No.15719564]

>>15694509
Good post mate.

[Anonymous No.15719585]

>>15694639
And yet, despite the fact that all these current conditions seem blatantly orchestrated, they will still all function exactly as intended.
Top down subversion.

[Anonymous No.15719777]

Socialism wasn't always materialist, it was only after Marxism monopolized it that materialism and atheism became the mainstream socialist positions

Here's a very interesting read: http://www.thethinkersgarden.com/2018/06/the-socialist-roots-and-utopian-dreams-of-eliphas-levi/

[Anonymous No.15719985]

>>15694912
>>15694934
>"read this book"
>well maybe, what's it about?
>"some stuff, i dunno i haven't finished"

/lit/

[Anonymous No.15721245]

>>15694435
>be fair, there is a brand of conservative that says "Look how cheap clock radios are, the modern political system is a huge success", while
Everything you said I agree with. The conservatives though arent right wing. That's part of it. The conservatives are still part of a left wing capitalist/materialist system of which they support. Fascism is not materialist I would argue because as you said its focused on a "health" and "vitality" of a people, which a physical thing is also not objects that can be produced in a factory.

[Anonymous No.15721282]

>>15718441
No I stand by my claim that Christianity is apolitical because Christ was. I am also claiming that your plans will not work, politics is just power struggles and doesn't care about morality. I only brought up the universal love concept because you made this weird argument about 'if everyone were to listen to you it would be a disaster' when that is clearly not true, if everyone acted like Christ there would be no problems.

And the absurd moral system you're referring to is Christianity, reread the New Testament because you seem to not have a clue what they actually did. There is literally nothing in it about engaging in politics, and the system then was obviously unjust. There is nothing in it about trying to eradicate inequality or poverty. There is nothing about seeking power or attacking the evil. There is just a commandment to be kind yourself and to give what you have.

[Anonymous No.15721292]

>>15694293
Unpack all those definitions and state what you really mean to state instead of weaselling them into a question

[Anonymous No.15721298]

>>15696652
Better version

[Anonymous No.15721325]

>>15694293
Depends, the trad shit, yes, but conservative revolution stuff, no.

[Anonymous No.15721356]

>>15694293
>if I word my opinion as a question, then I can't be held accountable for it!
What church did your mother go to?

[Anonymous No.15721815]

>>15694293
Far right no.
Center-right yes.

Far left no.
Center-left ... there are left Christian Democrats and a minority of Christian social democrats... but overall this area is covered by atheists, not necessarily bad guys tho.

There's also lots of left in Islam.

I don't think any salvation will come in this fallen world, there's no perfect system - we can look over the span of history and reason what each did good... and then I trust smart people to react to issues at hand... but enforcing ideological stuff, ain't working anon, bullshit I call it.

[Anonymous No.15722709]

>>15721282
>And the absurd moral system you're referring to is Christianity, reread the New Testament because you seem to not have a clue what they actually did. There is literally nothing in it about engaging in politics, and the system then was obviously unjust. There is nothing in it about trying to eradicate inequality or poverty. There is nothing about seeking power or attacking the evil. There is just a commandment to be kind yourself and to give what you have.
Right, so I guess if a thief gets inside your house you just stand by because use of force is always wrong.
If that's what Christianity is then it is completely useless as a moral guide since it is psychologically impossible to be followed.

[Anonymous No.15722734]

>>15722709
this has been a persistent problem in Christianity for its entire existence, the question of self-defense. The Christian martyrs did not defend themselves and neither did Christ.

[Anonymous No.15722747]

>>15694395

Ethno nationalism is spiritual. Cant reincarnate as a nigger can we? That way we never escape the demiurge.

[Anonymous No.15722748]

>>15694293
Isn't it obvious? The left is obsessed with viewing everything in terms of economics. The right at least pretends to have other kinds of values.

[Anonymous No.15722759]

>>15722734
And how do you reconcile your pacifist absolutism with your view about submitting to Caesar and the law? Caesar may send you to fight in a war. Besides, your taxes may be used to fund said wars.

[Anonymous No.15722776]

>>15722748
That's patently absurd, the concept of intersectionality is precisely about the fact that not all struggles the left care about can be reduced to economics

[Anonymous No.15722779]

>>15722759
>Caesar may send you to fight in a war.
You would have to refuse. This is still a negative action though, you aren't imposing yourself on anyone. Taxation is more like Caesar robbing you and you letting him

[Anonymous No.15722785]

>>15722776
Privilege is an economic consequence.

[Anonymous No.15722808]

>>15722785
Not completely according to the left. LGBT rights have nothing to do with economics. And even the economic policies are not ends in themselves, but a means to achieve certain standards of living.

[Anonymous No.15722825]

>>15722808
>LGBT rights have nothing to do with economics.
Normative people have seized the cultural and political edifices by generation economic advantage. Go away, you are wrong.

[Anonymous No.15722826]

>>15722779
>Taxation is more like Caesar robbing you and you letting him
If you are willingly filling your bills it is not a negative action. By your standard you should refuse to pay taxes and get to prison if they are being used to fund wars.

[Anonymous No.15722832]

>>15722808
>. And even the economic policies are not ends in themselves, but a means to achieve certain standards of living.
You mean like...economic parity?

[Anonymous No.15722843]

>>15722826
If you are living in poverty like the early Christians the point is kind of moot, but maybe you are correct that you'd have to, idk, give away all your money instead of paying taxes, and then go to jail, or not work at all or something. Interesting question really

[Anonymous No.15722853]

>>15722825
>Normative people have seized the cultural and political edifices by generation economic advantage. Go away, you are wrong.
That's a red herring of numbing grossness. In the context of this dicussion the point is that the lgbt struggles are no reducible to economic struggles. No one is saying that there is literally no relation between the lgbt and money.

[Anonymous No.15722881]

>>15694485
Midwits will always reduce the intentions of right wing metaphysics to
>they just want an excuse to think they're superior race!
Rather silly and probably says more about them than the reader their criticizing

[Anonymous No.15722947]

>>15722843
I am not sure if even giving your money to the poor is a good thing under your system given your previous insistence that I care too much about material well being

[Anonymous No.15722968]

>>15719777
Eliphas Levi was never an influence on socialism, or was even taken seriously in general, so I don't know why you think this is relevant.

[Anonymous No.15722969]

>>15715976
Wrong, primordial society was perfect and if you disagree you're an elitist soiboi.

[Anonymous No.15722987]

>>15722947
there is a difference between bare necessities and focusing on material gain. The Buddhists distinguish between the two as well.

Idk you're acting as though it's surprising that the religion has extreme consequences when it is an extreme religion. You can be Christian and have a more normal life, I just don't think you can claim those other things are themselves Christian. The actual behavior of Christ and his followers was extremely atypical. You are not expected to perfectly emulate him, but that is the point in asking forgiveness for your failures.

[Anonymous No.15723000]

>>15722947
to add, look at the difference in Islam, which is explicitly political, and whose prophet was a political figure.

[Anonymous No.15723003]

>>15722832
No, individual well being. Economic parity is a means to that.

[Anonymous No.15723005]

>>15694293
The left generally favors the materialism and reality, the right generally favors dogmatic mental illness and delusion so it really depends on how you are defining spirituality

[Anonymous No.15723027]

>>15694293
Todays difference between left and right is the exact same difference that was in 1830s between Young and Old Hegelians (with the left being young hegelians and right being the old). Only escape is MAX STIRNER, that is, his overcoming of Hegelian spirit and theology (to which even the "materialist" left belongs) by means of ceasing of seeking and just being

[Anonymous No.15723040]

>>15694485
Fascists do this all the time too, if they don't like what a writer says they put the triple parenthesis besides his name and lo and behold, argument refuted. They actually do this more than any other political faction. You don't get to only complain when the other camp is doing it unless you like being a partisan.

[Anonymous No.15723048]

>>15694485
Also, look up what dogwhistle means

[Anonymous No.15723049]

>>15723040
Fascists are leftists, so what's your point?

[Anonymous No.15723053]

>>15723005
>The left generally favors the materialism and reality
72 Genders
Men can be pregnant and have periods
Race isn't real, but it is when criticizing europeans or asking for reparations
Climate change will destroy the world probably tomorrow
Humans have inherent rights, but those definitions are based on nothing objective, and can change depending on our consensus, also killing babies is fine because Stacey needs economic mobility
The poor are poor because the rich are rich, slow cars are slow because of fast cars
Black criminality can be explained by systemic racism, not their fault
Male criminality is explained by male aggression and violence

[Anonymous No.15723055]

>>15723049
No fascists are authoritarian capitalists that use metaphysics as a justification for suffering

[Anonymous No.15723073]

>>15723049
Then why did you said that leftists engage in bad faith with Evola, the phrasing implies that Evola is not a leftist.
It's almost like you are some random clown who jumped on the discussion without following what was said earlier.

[Anonymous No.15723085]

>>15723053
I would consider all of these things to be liberal and inherently right wing since they seek to distract the proletariat from class warfare, feminism and identify politics are a tool to subvert workers movements. There is a reason why large companies support social justice. Your notion of left and right is based on autistic YouTube video culture and not on economics. Read capital if you actually wish to gain and understanding of what the left is.

[Anonymous No.15723093]

>>15723053
>72 Genders
source?
>Men can be pregnant and have periods
agree transgenderism is retarded
>Race isn't real
not in the sense you think it is
>but it is when criticizing europeans or asking for reparations
just because it is a social construct doesn't mean it doesn't affect people
for example just because black people aren't a separate subspecies and phrenology is bullshit doesn't mean that they haven't been treated differently for being perceived as "black"
>Climate change will destroy the world probably tomorrow
source?
>Humans have inherent rights, but those definitions are based on nothing objective, and can change depending on our consensus
anyone who talks about "rights" stumbles into this contradiction
>also killing babies is fine
embryos literally aren't babies
>because Stacey needs economic mobility
what?
The poor are poor because the rich are rich, slow cars are slow because of fast cars
what?
>Black criminality can be explained by systemic racism
on average true
>not their fault
no one says this
>Male criminality is explained by male aggression and violence
are you saying this is false?

[Anonymous No.15723108]

>>15723053
>72 Genders
strawman
>Men can be pregnant and have periods
they can if you define a man as someone who identifies with the masculine gender identity
>Race isn't real
strawman
>Climate change will destroy the world probably tomorrow
strawman, but climate change is obviously real and the accepted scientific consensus
>Humans have inherent rights, but those definitions are based on nothing objective, and can change depending on our consensus, also killing babies is fine because Stacey needs economic mobility
strawman
>The poor are poor because the rich are rich, slow cars are slow because of fast cars
strawman
>Black criminality can be explained by systemic racism, not their fault
false dichotomy, explanations are not excuses
>Male criminality is explained by male aggression and violence
that's a tautology not an explanation

solid 2/10 post

[Anonymous No.15723117]

>>15723093
>Black criminality can be explained by systemic racism
>on average true
anon I...

[Anonymous No.15723118]

>>15723053
this truth pill is causing levels of seething we've never seen before on c/lit/

[Anonymous No.15723141]

>>15723085
marxists and fascists are just liberals who tolerate violence explicitly, while the liberal pretends to be pluralistic and non-violent.

>but i privilege economic class over other classes
still a libshit

[Anonymous No.15723143]

>>15723117
>>15723118
>no argument

[Anonymous No.15723164]

>>15723053
hey I got ninja'd
didn't know we had terfs around here, must be a lolcow migration

[Anonymous No.15723168]

>>15723093
hey I got ninja'd
didn't know we had terfs around here, must be a lolcow migration

[Anonymous No.15723171]

>>15723141
This is one of the lowest IQ posts I have ever seen. They need to ban American IPs from this website.

[Anonymous No.15723176]

>>15723168
>still no argument

[Anonymous No.15723236]

>>15723171
>im not a libshit! I'm a marxist!
>I just believe everything liberals believed from the french revolution up to the modern era, except I sprinkle some class warfare into my economics and don't like private ownership
-----

>im not a libshit! I'm a fascist!
>I just believe everything liberals believed from the french revolution up to the modern era, except I sprinkle some hierarchy and tribalism into my politics also 1488!!!

[Anonymous No.15724018]

>>15723176
what argument