/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15682863]

The most important writers of the last century were fascists.

Explain this, antifags.

[Anonymous No.15682875]

>mfw the greatest philosophers were either virgins or homosexuals

[Anonymous No.15683967]

>>15682863
None of the writers you think are important are. I guarantee all of the writers you claim are the most important of the last century are only influential to contrarian facist virgins like you.

[Anonymous No.15683993]

>>15683967
Ok. You're wrong though.

[Anonymous No.15684010]

>Pound
>Hamsun
>Yeats
>Celine
>La Rochelle
>Cioran
>Eliade
>Heidegger
>Schmitt

[Anonymous No.15684030]

>>15683967
>contrarian facist
nice

[Anonymous No.15684058]

>>15683967
Fascist ideology isn't even offensive and they were not any more violent, racist, or opressive as other ideologies of the time i.e communism and democracy

[Anonymous No.15684063]

>>15682875
Sure, generally if you have a wife and kids then you tend to be too busy taking care of the practical responsibilities of family life to step back and really reflect on existence.

[Anonymous No.15684113]

>>15683967
This >>15684010
plus:

>Jorge Luis Borges
>Miguel de Unamuno
>José Ortega y Gasset
>Gabriele d'Annunzio
>Curzio Malaparte
...

[Anonymous No.15684127]

>>15682863
>Miguel Serrano

[Anonymous No.15684525]

>>15684010
>>15684113
So Yeats and Heidegger.

[Anonymous No.15684786]

>>15684525
Based retard

[Anonymous No.15684820]

>>15684113
>Borges
>Fascist
Lol

[Anonymous No.15685027]

>>15682863
Real ballers never sweat

[Anonymous No.15685163]

>>15684820
How do you call someone that travels to Chile to suck Pinochet's dick, then?

[Anonymous No.15685212]

>>15683967
Pound changed the whole course of Western literature. Everything from Eliot to Joyce to Hemingway to Frost to Ginsberg is in one way or another indebted - and often heavily indebted - to Ezra Pound.

Furthermore, he was immensely influential outside of the U.S. too.

[Anonymous No.15685227]

>>15684010
Pessoa apparently died as something of a classical liberal, but during his early 20's and maybe for some time after he held views which would definitely be considered fascistic nowadays.

[Anonymous No.15685240]

>>15685212
Pound disavowed fascism, antisemitism and his facist works later in life.

[Anonymous No.15685258]

>>15682863
What is fascism and what is fascism as leftists say? Honest question.

[Anonymous No.15685271]

>>15685163
Borges was more of a classical liberal in the Anglo tradition, but he was also definitely very anti-communist.

He seems to have accepted democracy in principle, but in his interview with Buckley he said he believed that his country wasn't really ready for it.
More than 30 years since the redemocratization of Argentina, and beholding what has become of that once great nation, we can say that yes, Borges was indeed not wrong at all. Argentines don't know how to vote.

[Anonymous No.15685278]

>>15682863
i don't much care for pound, but i must say that this is quite based.

[Anonymous No.15685291]

>>15685240
You mean after he was tortured, humiliated, and unlawfully imprisoned until he had a psychological breakdown, while various poets laureate were campaigning for his release from this cruel and unusual punishment?

[Anonymous No.15685301]

>>15685240
That picture in the OP *is* from his "later" life.

But yes, there are a bunch of quotes in which he seems to have disavowed all that during his final years. How much of it is true, how much made-up; how much of it is genuine, how much just said in order to be left alone... I'm afraid no one can tell.

[Anonymous No.15685347]

>>15685291
No, he kept being a fascist even after that. The picture in the OP is from after his sanatorium days in the U.S., taken when he arrived in Italy for the first time since the war.
During his trial he claimed insanity in order to not be put to death for treason.

That other anon is probably referring to his quotes about not being an antisemite (using his friendship with Zukofsky as an argument), and to the one that he reportedly gave to Ginsberg.
At any rate, Pound was certainly not an antisemite in the sense of hating all Jews, and certainly not a racist against blacks (having being greatly interested in their speech, as well as in African culture through Frobenius), Asians (whom he immensely admired), and other such groups.
It seems, however, that he held very clear views which could be characterized as antisemite in the politico-ideological sense.

I am very skeptical about his change of views, because he talked in detail about all that stuff during the 30's and during the war.

Just seems to me that he went from fascist to crypto-fascist, following the tides of the days.

[Anonymous No.15685405]

>>15685291
>>15685301
>>15685347
Cope.

[Anonymous No.15685415]

>>15685347
Interesting post, thanks.

[Anonymous No.15685416]

>>15685405
Any definitive proof?

I am not fascist at all. I just don't believe that the man just changed the views he had held for decades just because American journalists and parasitic poetasters asked him to.

[Anonymous No.15685451]

>>15685416
By the way, Pound asked for forgiveness a lot in his last years, including in the Cantos, but this could be interpreted in more personal ways.
I may be wrong, but I am not familiar with any documental proof that he actually changed his views and his general political outlook. I mean, did he ever praise the FED in later life?

[Anonymous No.15685458]

>>15685405
Seething

[Anonymous No.15685481]

>>15685347
he was probably bipolar though, even before the cage stuff which explains a lot if you think about it

[Anonymous No.15685498]

>>15685458
About what? >>15684525
Yeats and Heidegger? You can have them.

[Anonymous No.15685510]

>>15685481
>posthumous psychological diagnosis

You can do better than that.

[Anonymous No.15685527]

>>15685510
lmao just read the cantos and it becomes apparent, no need for any psychological diagnosis.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.15685552]

>>15682863
Not a one.

Cheap thread

[Anonymous No.15685554]

>>15685498
read heidegger

[Anonymous No.15685567]

>>15685552
You're probably monolingual if you say that.
In Italy alone...

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.15685588]

>>15685271
>Voting
>Democracy

Borges doesn't know politics. He was a young socialist but later soured on the authoritarians that ran the place. Who wouldn't? Like Bloom opposing Trump. Who wouldn't?

>>15685567
Who are the "Great Fascist Authors" of Italy?

[Anonymous No.15685603]

>>15685588
>Who are the "Great Fascist Authors" of Italy?
Based retard

[Anonymous No.15685616]

>>15685588
Mussolini himself...

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15685622]

>>15685616

[Anonymous No.15685644]

>>15685616
ok start naming the good authors

[Anonymous No.15685655]

>>15685622
>meme cope
Mussolini was considered the biggest intellectual in Italian socialism by the time of the First World War. Until he stopped being a socialist. Curious!

Even if Mussolini wasn't one, there were literally hundreds of intellectuals in Italy who aligned with fascism. Gabriele d'Annunzio was a national figure on that time period, for example.

tl;dr: Dilate, antifaggot.

[Anonymous No.15685663]

>>15685588
>Who are the "Great Fascist Authors" of Italy?
A simple google search will suffice.
>>15685616
Gentile ghost wrote his shit.

[Anonymous No.15685664]

>>15684010
Gertrude Stein was a fascist sympathizer too.
>>15683967
You’re probably right when it comes down to it, but that’s more because contemporary literature has been so homogenized by the MFA machine that the numbers of influential authors is probably quite small and are probably very similar to one another.

[Anonymous No.15685668]

>>15685644
You have 240 here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_the_Fascist_Intellectuals

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15685680]

>Hundreds
>Here’s a random two off the top of my head
There aren’t any more are there.

[Anonymous No.15685685]

>>15685668
>bunch of literally whos

[Anonymous No.15685692]

>>15685588
Papini, Macchioro, D'Annunzio are all good. "Mussolini's Intellectuals" is a good book about some interesting philosophers and social theorists. Some protofascist fellow travelers like Mosca and Pareto are interesting too.

>>15685655
I can't believe I'm even saying this but calling Butterfly "antifa" is actually flattering her. She's a 50 year old trust fund baby and failed art student who has lived off parental money for decades in California. She has never contributed anything to a political cause or discussion other than posting Max Stirner in a few 4chan threads, 5 years after the meme was dead.

[Anonymous No.15685695]

>>15685685
>Luigi Pirandello
>Curzio Malaparte
>Marinetti
>literally whos

You need to go back.

[Anonymous No.15685707]

>>15685692
>>15685668
OP said the most important writers of the last century, not interesting theorists only relevant in the short lived context of fascist Italy.

[Anonymous No.15685719]

>>15685707
Pound, Stein, and Hamsun probably contributed more to literary modernism than anyone else.

[Anonymous No.15685721]

>>15685695
Luigi Pirandello
>He had continuous conflicts with famous fascist leaders. In 1927 he tore his fascist membership card to pieces in front of the startled secretary-general of the Fascist Party. For the remainder of his life, Pirandello was always under close surveillance by the secret fascist police OVRA.
Curzio Malaparte
>Malaparte had a complex relationship with the National Fascist Party and was stripped of membership in 1933 for his independent streak. Arrested numerous times, he had Casa Malaparte created in Capri where he lived under house arrest. After the Second World War, he became a film maker and moved closer to both Togliatti's Italian Communist Party and the Catholic Church (though once a staunch atheist), reputedly becoming members of both before his death.
Marinetti
>He opposed Fascism's later exaltation of existing institutions, terming them "reactionary," and, after walking out of the 1920 Fascist party congress in disgust, withdrew from politics for three years.

Go back to /pol/

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15685732]

>>15685695
To the 21st century? To the non-Italian speaking world. We’re pretty much there already. What part of Italy you in?

[Anonymous No.15685748]

>>15685721
>they stopped supporting fascism after a decade
>that means they were never fascists haha owned lol lmao gotem

[Anonymous No.15685751]

>>15684010
Are you a Romanian nigger by any chance?
Eliade might have been fascist all his life, but he isn’t important. Maybe in the academic world of history of religions.
Cioran actually disavowed (not overtly, he just said it is a young man’s game) fascism later in life, and he didn’t like Nazis.

[Anonymous No.15685757]

>>15685732
>a fucking boomer roastie NEET

[Anonymous No.15685762]

>>15685748
Fascism itself changed pretty drastically. I could easily see someone supporting the movement in its early days and abandoning it after seeing the fascist party in power.

[Anonymous No.15685765]

>>15685748
>that means they were never fascists
haha owned lol lmao gotem
That's clearly not what I said and this strawman shows how immature you are.

[Anonymous No.15685771]

>>15685762
>Fascism itself changed pretty drastically. I could easily see someone supporting the movement in its early days and abandoning it after seeing the fascist party in power.
Care to give a QRD or recommend some books?
Did Mussolini kill fascism?

[Anonymous No.15685774]

>>15685721
Yet they signed the manifesto.

And they weren't young, easily-persuaded kids either. They were fascists at a relevant point in their lives, around which they did produce relevant works.

Anthony Flew doesn't stop being a relevant atheist philosopher just because he later became a theist.

[Anonymous No.15685788]

>>15685771
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto
Just look at the goals listed here and compare them to the policies pursued by the fascist party when it was in power.

[Anonymous No.15685802]

>>15685788
>policies pursued by the fascist party when it was in power.
Where can I find those?
Why didn't Mussolini stay true to the doctrine of fascism?
If fascism changed so much during the regime, why even call it that?

[Anonymous No.15685808]

>>15685732
I am Brazilian and know all the authors he mentioned. Marinetti and Pirandello, specially, are extremely well-known. Indeed, we learn about Marinetti in high school, and Pirandello's plays are sometimes represented in our theaters.

Other people are not to blame for your outrageous lack of culture, Butterfly. You are very narrowly-read, and probably don't read books in other languages.

[Anonymous No.15685812]

>>15685802
its the same as with communism, power breeds retardation

[Anonymous No.15685830]

>>15685788
>Contents of the Fascist Manifesto
>Universal suffrage
Why? I thought they hated democracy

[Anonymous No.15685846]

>>15685802
>>15685830
Fascism was originally conceived as having no set doctrine in order to be flexible enough to face the issues of the day. As they gained power they tried to formalize their position with things like the manifesto and doctrine. Eventually it settled on what it became.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15685850]

>>15685808
>Fascism
>culture
Your country has a fascist problem, and probably due to the CIA, so it’s no wonder it’s taught there. But props for being multilingual. They discourage it here. OPs claims are still nonsense.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15685853]

>>15685830
Voting isn’t democracy

[Anonymous No.15685855]

>>15685830
Damn, the italians too? I thought that was just an anecdote with Mosley?

What was the reasoning behind getting women to vote, because today's Fascists sorta wanna get rid of that.

Did women just get massively psyopped in the past 70 years?

[Anonymous No.15685872]

>>15685855
larping amerimutts are not fascists

[Anonymous No.15685874]

>>15685850
>retarded pretentious babble
>woman

Checks out

[Anonymous No.15685875]

>>15685850
>the cia wants to establish a regime that seeks to abolish it

[Anonymous No.15685877]

>>15682863
Explains why the last century in lit has been pretty dogshit

[Anonymous No.15685884]

>>15685872
You want to give these things the vote?

[Anonymous No.15685885]

>>15685850
I'm not that anon, but it's quite the contrary: Brazilian education is fully dominated by the left wing. YET, we still learn about Marinetti and others.

You're either retarded or had very poor education.

[Anonymous No.15685904]

>>15685884
sure, you can only vote for one party

[Anonymous No.15685909]

Holy shit butters is getting rekt in this fucking thread
Step up your game girl!

[Anonymous No.15685911]

>>15685855
Women’s rights were drastically reduced during the fascist regime, and they were live domestic lives and have children. It’s one of the difference between the early claims of the movement and what it ended up being in practice.

[Anonymous No.15685922]

>>15684113
>Miguel de Unamuno
>fascist
fucking hell, man who virulently criticise everything fascist and reactionary is fascist? cool

[Anonymous No.15685926]

>>15685911
>It’s one of the difference between the early claims of the movement and what it ended up being in practice.
Were they better or worse off doing that?

[Anonymous No.15685934]

>>15685850
Are you with dementia already, Butterfly?
Marinetti is studied as one of the founders of futurism - by the way, a seminal influence on Álvaro de Campos. I went to high school deep in the Worker's Party's days, and learned about Marinetti in... 2010 or so. He's studied in any country where actual literature is studied.

And Bolsonaro isn't a "fascist" anymore. In fact, he's never been. At any rate, he's now allied to the corrupt center, and became yet another example of "velha política" (old politics), just like Temer, Dilma, and Lula. Essentially, he's trying to survive, and likely won't.
And none of that has anything to do with the CIA. Brazilians are extremely conservative and have been so since forever, due to Portuguese Catholic influence and the new Evangelical churches. Your brain feeds itself on conspiracy theories.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15685946]

>>15685875
The State Department got their Brazilian Trump in office, didn’t they?

>>15685885
There’s a class division there, that’s what I know. I’m not “retarded” for not knowing the intricacies of their education system. Yes, I know there’s quite a lot of leftists too.

>>15685909
Where? The OP has been proven wrong. Now we’re haggling over how famous Italians are in Brazil

[Anonymous No.15685986]

>>15685946
The OP hasn't been proven wrong.
The only thing that's been proven in this thread is that you have a very poor literary education. Not that anyone would assume otherwise.

[Anonymous No.15686003]

>>15685946
Trump isn't a fascist in any sense of the word.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15686013]

>>15685934
>Your brain feeds itself on conspiracy theories.
You underestimate the sneaks that run nations.
Nice background information though. I do like learning new things

>>15685986
There’s a handful of Italian fascists. And a poet or two. The OP is obliterated

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15686029]

>>15686003
I didn’t call him, or Bolsonaro, one. They are “alt-lite” playing to nationalist fervor. Still part of neoliberalism. A game they’re playing .

[Anonymous No.15686037]

>>15686013
Pound is undeniably the figurehead of modernism though, even if faggots like you are trying to retcon him out of the picture

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.15686051]

>>15686037
Is that like the Hemingway thing?
Who else is big in Modernism? I forget

[Anonymous No.15686057]

>>15686051
no its not like the hemingway thing, Pound is modernism.

[Anonymous No.15686082]

>>15686051
Joyce, Pound, Stein, Hamsun, Eliot, Kafka, Brecht, Faulkner, Mann, Woolf, etc. Hemingway was one of them.

[Anonymous No.15686090]

>>15684113
>Gabriele d'Annunzio
he is definetly fascist, but "fascist" in a way that for your raight-wing kind he will be more "leftist degenerate"
>extremely lewd
>fiercly libertarian
>pro-Jews
>pro-LGBT

[Anonymous No.15686103]

>>15686090
Fascism was always a little homoerotic. I think they kind of reveled in the absurdity of it.

[Anonymous No.15686115]

>>15686057
Indeed.

Pound is arguably - and probably - the most influential poet of the past century. Here in Brazil alone his influence was absolutely enormous: many of our different poetic aesthetics found their cradle in Ezra Pound's critical work, specially his ABC of Reading. The basic "Anglo quartet" is: Yeats, Pound, Eliot, Joyce.

And most of our poets were far from sympathizing with Pound's politics. The concretists, for instance, were politically aligned with the left, but saw in Mallarmé, Pound and Maiakovsky their three main predecessors.

Mallarmé and Pound were the ones who really took poetry to the 20th century. You can't understand contemporary literature without studying these two great innovators.

[Anonymous No.15686116]

>>15682863
a lot of people were fascists, some were really good at writing. dont make it right

[Anonymous No.15686118]

>>15686090
>>extremely lewd
>>fiercly libertarian
>>pro-Jews
>>pro-LGBT
These qualities unironically apply to some fascists

[Anonymous No.15686139]

>>15686090
>fiercely libertarian
lmao. That's why he put guards in Fiume to beat up the people that didn't like his speeches?

[Anonymous No.15686150]

>>15686090
Fascism is a revolutionary movement that, at least historically, sprang from socialism. It has little to do with real conservatism (whether British or fundamentalist), and is truly reactionary only in part.
I don't know why people keep making these associations. Mussolini himself had a very open life style.
It's no wonder that it offered an attractive aesthetics to some modernist artists.

That's one of the reasons why Bolsonaro can't be a fascist, by the way. His morality is that of the current Evangelical churches, not that of fascism.

[Anonymous No.15686171]

>>15686139
Fiume was in kind of psychosis and because of that D`Annunzio didn`t need "guard" to beat someone. Where you read that bullshit?

Also, he embrace all insane kind of leftists, liberals and free thinkers - lurk into YOGA society for example, and magazine "Testa di Ferro".
Also, mandatory Charter of Carnaro - it is too much liberal for fascist constitution.

[Anonymous No.15686172]

Can any Fascist make a reading list to understand fascism in spirit starting from the Syndicalists in France to the modern era?

Or is that really just unnecessary, and must I just channel the spirit of my people?

[Anonymous No.15686183]

>>15686150
because almost nobody knows what the ideology behind fascism is yet they view it as the arch enemy of everything.

[Anonymous No.15686221]

>>15686150
>truly reactionary only in part
Because basically there were two kinds of italian fascism - early (1919-1920) and "mature".
Early was pretty much mix of everything but with sauce of nat-syndicalism. And it was extremely "revolutionary". There were even guys who literally argue for dismantling state, moral and society.
Mature fascism is much, much more conservative and reactionary. "Everything for the State", "New Roman Empire", friendship with Church etc. Even their "fascist art" is mostly something neo-Roman. Yes, Futurists were the case but they were as much liked as frowned.

[Anonymous No.15686242]

>>15686221
>There were even guys who literally argue for dismantling state, moral and society.
Names?
And if the state is only a means to an end- can the end be anarchy?

[Anonymous No.15686272]

>>15686221
It was/is quite a varied movement, but people don't see that, because they frequently call its name while refusing to look at its face. Yet, if they were to do so, they would find many expressions which are quite dissimilar to what they would have expected.

It's incredible how fast words can lose their meaning.

[Anonymous No.15686303]

>>15686272
If fascism can vary and change so much two the point where it contradicts eachother why even call it that?
What is fascism?

[Anonymous No.15686312]

>>15686272
If fascism can vary and change so much to the point where it contradicts eachother why even call it that?
What is even is "fascism" anymore?

[Anonymous No.15686317]

>>15686272
Also pls recommend readings. I just want to learn, thank you.

[Anonymous No.15686420]

>>15686317
I am by no means an expert, and not a fascist at all. I just read a few of Mussolini's writings, besides some books on the history of Italy, as well as many classics of Italian literature.
I haven't even read Gentile yet (his books are very expensive in my country), and he's often considered the foremost fascist intellectual, a sort of anti-Benedetto Croce, although philosophically they seemed to have had some things in common, and were initially friends.

But you don't need to go very deep to see how superficial is the current state of public knowledge on these issues.

In fact, the current state of public discussion in the Western world is absurdly poor. It's a great intellectual tragedy.

[Anonymous No.15686459]

>>15685212
He was a very well-connected literary agent, but his poetry never lived up to his ideas. The Cantos are for the most part garbage. Pound's only reedming qualities are his political coherence and the fact that he recognized authors who were better than him.

[Anonymous No.15686471]

>>15684010
Almost all these guys had their specific brand of fascism which was barely aligned with the public ideology of fascism. This is like calling "communist" every left leaning author of the last 80 years

[Anonymous No.15686509]

>>15682863

[Anonymous No.15686515]

>>15686459
That's your subjective judgement. I could cite many famous writers - T. S. Eliot, Allen Ginsberg, Hugh Kenner, Pasolini, Haroldo de Campos - from different countries and political persuasions, who would disagree with it.

[Anonymous No.15686567]

>>15686172
Rohkramer, Eine Andere Moderne
Mohler, Conservative Revolution
Woods, Conservative Revolution in Weimar
Griffin, Fascism and Modernism
George Mosse, Zeev Sternhell, A. James Gregor for overviews and history

Read these first
https://www.counter-currents.com/2011/08/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest-a-right-answer-to-usury-part-1/
https://www.counter-currents.com/2011/08/breaking-the-bondage-of-interesta-right-answer-to-usury-part-2/
https://www.counter-currents.com/2011/08/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest-a-right-answer-to-usury-part/
https://www.counter-currents.com/2011/08/breaking-the-bondage-of-interesta-right-answer-to-usury-part-4/

https://www.counter-currents.com/2012/11/two-volumes-by-gottfried-feder/

Then read things that interest you. Try reading about Primo de Rivera or Codreanu, see the real threats they faced and how close they got. Fascism is eclectic because it's metapolitical. It's about identifying what's real and vital in history and politics, and defending it against real threats. Fascists invariably agree with eachother (and with many leftists) that the current threat is totalitarian systems that tend or try to make men into meaningless drones, whether to serve capital or to serve mindless imperialist Bolshevism. Many fascists, and many leftists express, mean the same thing when they say their target is capitalism, consumerism, usury.

But fascists disagree amongst themselves about what's real and vital. For some nations it was understood along ethnic lines, for others ethnolinguistic or purely historical and traditional lines, for others as the restoration or rebirth of the national soul or true religion. What matters is that a people doesn't just "exist" passively, but actively takes a stand about what it really is, and then decides who its friends and who its enemies are.

Fascists also begin to disagree with leftists when they get to this point because the majority of leftists are not true leftists, they ultimately justify their activism with bourgeois liberal humanism and "individualism" (trojan horses for consumerism and hedonism). Their only goal is to make a "nicer" world where people are free to "do what they want." Most fascists don't dispute the need for individualism, autonomy, liberty, and so forth. But they know that these exist within the context of a culture and a nation that knows what it is, and what its friends and enemies are. That's why most fascist political economists claimed that fascist anticapitalism was the obvious completion of socialism and marxism. Even anarchists are basically volkisch nationalists at heart if they aren't selfish bohemian hippies.

[Anonymous No.15687013]

>>15683967
*fascist

[Anonymous No.15687223]

Can I get a quick rundown on essential fash lit? I want to do some reading.

[Anonymous No.15687258]

>>15686090
>>pro-LGBT
LGBT didn't exist during that time, you fucking moron. how deluded one can be?

[Anonymous No.15688590]

>>15687258
You know what he meant.

[Anonymous No.15688666]

>>15684010
>thinking pound is an important writer, he wrote dogshit

[Anonymous No.15688680]

>>15685510
pound was a pussy fag who realised his ways were wrong and disavowed them

[Anonymous No.15688716]

>>15688680
Wrong. Pound said what he said so he wouldn't be sent back to the insane asylum for another 10 years. Can you blame him?

[Anonymous No.15688749]

>>15688716
lol the fag was mentally ill and obviously the asylum broke it cus he couldnt handle it, and it makes sense, as his facist tendencies were to keep his pussy-self at bay, it was always inside of him, but being coped with by outwardly being less of a fagg than he actually was

[Anonymous No.15688816]

>>15685721
you fucking retard. they (especially marinetti) were the very inventors of fascism. marinetti wrote dozens of poems praising fascism.

other fascist/very far right major writers NOT MENTIONED in the thread:

- nietzsche (the father of 20th century anti-democraticism).

- konservative revolution: sefan george, hofmannsthal, kraus, strindberg, rilke, benn, ernst and friedrich georg jünger, spengler, huizinga, kantorowicz,toynbee.

- action francaise and their followers: barrès, maurras, t.s. eliot,

- elitist school: pareto, etc

- fascism: gentile, ungaretti, papini

- haeckel (social darwinist)

[Anonymous No.15688829]

>>15688590
he's wrong anyway, fascism is not the same thing as hitlerism, even early NS were full of homos.but he needs to be called a retard for equating a political movement with sexuality.

[Anonymous No.15688845]

>>15684113
Borges, Unamuno and Ortega? The absolute state of lit.

[Anonymous No.15688881]

>>15688845
borges wasn't a "fascist" but he has nothing to do with democracy, let alone socialsm/left wing/etc.
ortega was 100% a fascist.
unamuno was a catholic liberal like chesterton.

[Anonymous No.15688904]

>>15684525
yeet

[Anonymous No.15688969]

>>15688666
Fucking kys

[Anonymous No.15688993]

>>15684113
>Unamuno
>Ortega y Gasset
Way to out yourself as a retard

[Anonymous No.15689000]

>good at literature equals valid politic viewpoints
no

[Anonymous No.15689004]

>>15689000
fascists are blessed with both, praise god

[Anonymous No.15689007]

>>15688969
are you mad that the faggot couldnt hold up his facist pride under some pressure? lol

[Anonymous No.15689067]

>>15688881
>ortega was 100% fascist
no

[Anonymous No.15689076]

>>15689000
post some jünger-tier names of left winged (not conservative liberals like t. mann, i mean left winged) writers in the 20th century, please.

[Anonymous No.15689091]

>>15683967
Nice projection at the end, faggot

[Anonymous No.15689093]

>>15689076
william gass

[Anonymous No.15689112]

>>15689067
please stop shit posting and start reading, moron. he was a falangist, a racist, a mysoginist, a pro-slavery thinker, a mocker of democracy and egalitarianism, his magnum opus is called "the rebellion of the masses" in which is basically suggests the only way to deal with the plebs, especially prostesting plebs, is whipping them until they calm down.

[Anonymous No.15689118]

>>15689112
also hung out with schmitt and other fascists in paris in the '40s

[Anonymous No.15689120]

>>15689093
lmao

[Anonymous No.15689129]

>>15689118
of course he did.

[Anonymous No.15689140]

>>15684113

Calling Borges a fascist is like calling Thatcher a fascist, he was just a very anticommunist conservative.

[Anonymous No.15689192]

>>15689140
thatcher was a right wing democratic politician. borges had many doubts about democracy as a concept, let alone its application. borges is further to the right than thatcher.
quick reminder that today centre-right politicians like trump get called fascist unironically.

[Anonymous No.15689236]

>>15689112
Nah I think you should start to read. Ortega y Gasset was very much a liberal thinker, he was critical of Franco and other fascist leaders

[Anonymous No.15689286]

>>15689236
Not the guy you're replying to but it's clear you just google searched "ortega gasset fascist" and went to the first book you found, which is an apologetic. You can even still see the yellow highlighting that google books highlights when you search for keywords. This would be a zoomer enough thing to do if it wasn't for the fact that the chapter you are screenshotting from, including the paragraph you cropped out just above your google searched passage, says frankly that Ortega y Gasset is generally considered to have contributed to fascist discourse and that he has major similarities with leading fascist thinkers.

The author you spent 2 seconds google searching wouldn't have to devote an entire chapter to defending him against this association if it wasn't the standard assumption.

[Anonymous No.15689297]

>>15689286
You shouldn't say "you should start to read" if your google search term is highlighted in your own screenshot, showing you haven't read the book yourself, and on top of that you crop out the immediately preceding paragraph because it goes against your narrative.

[Anonymous No.15689316]

>>15689236
lmao who the fuck wrote that shit? some american feminist CS scholar? imagine writing that "the rebellion of the masses" was a "defence of the achievements of democracy". a book whose incipit is :
>Hay un hecho que, para bien o para mal, es el más importante en la vida pública europea de la hora presente. Este hecho es el advenimiento de las masas al pleno poderío social. Como las masas, por definición, no deben ni pueden dirigir su propia existencia, y menos regentar la sociedad, quiere decirse que Europa sufre ahora la más grave crisis que a pueblos, naciones, culturas, cabe padecer. Esta crisis ha sobrevenido más de una vez en la historia. Su fisonomía y sus consecuencias son conocidas. También se conoce su nombre. Se llama la rebelión de las masas.

ortega was not a fascist because fasism was a pro-masses movement to him.

[Anonymous No.15689336]

>>15689316
and as i said above ortega thought more or less the masses should just be enslaved by their elites (again: "las masas, por definición, no deben ni pueden dirigir su propia existencia, y menos regentar la sociedad" at the very beginnig of his book)

[Anonymous No.15689344]

>>15682863
Nobody reads books anymore.
I ain't Antifa, just stating the fucking obvious... Boomer.

[Anonymous No.15689346]

>>15682863
>Pound
>Who thought HD was the better poet even when she cut him off for being a fascist
I can prove you don't even read the people you claim to like.

[Anonymous No.15689355]

>>15685212
Nobody is seriously stylistically indebted to pound. He just helped a lot of people out and became the face of a literary movement by being a phony.

[Anonymous No.15689356]

>>15689297

[Anonymous No.15689370]

>>15689356
I searched for those exact keywords to look for a quick secondary on Ortega and fascism, since my idea of him was a very liberal thinking anti populist

[Anonymous No.15689372]

>>15686515
Eliot is middlebrow trash.

[Anonymous No.15689392]

>>15689316
>>15689336
I don't take issue with fascists claiming his ideas, I take issue with fascists claiming the man as one of them. I could go as far as calling him a corporatist but even then...

[Anonymous No.15689437]

im a phd student and instructor at an R1 university

ezra pounds writing sucks and he was a worm

[Anonymous No.15689447]

>>15689437
I'm the president of Harvard and Ezra Pound is my favorite writer

[Anonymous No.15689462]

>>15689392
he wasn't a fascist because he was what eco calls an "ur-fascist". fascist , being pro-masses, was too left-winged for him.
but ortega believed in all that you don't like about fascism

[Anonymous No.15689473]

>>15689447

okay, that makes you a lawyer and economist, not a paid scholar of american literature like myself

get fucked dork

[Anonymous No.15689502]

>>15689437
Im God and Ezra Pound

[Anonymous No.15689520]

>>15689502

im the cage that held ezra pound outdoors after he was captured for being a radio-broadcasting Italian state fascist shit

dumpstered

[Anonymous No.15689535]

>>15689473
dont speak to me peasant

[Anonymous No.15689554]

>>15689520
I'm the poet you leech onto to forge a sock.puppet of a career

[Anonymous No.15689597]

>>15685227
Evidence?

[Anonymous No.15689607]

>>15689437
>>15689447
>>15689502
>>15689520
>>15689554
/lit/ goes weird places in its epic /pol/ roleplays.

[Anonymous No.15689673]

>>15689437
>im a phd student and instructor at an R1 university

doesn't mean shit...universities are at an all-time low in terms of education and research

[Anonymous No.15689681]

Sigmund Freud praised Mussolini.

Sartre and de Beauvoir were collaborationists who entertained literal Nazis.

[Anonymous No.15689759]

>>15689673

nice performative utterance (thanks eliade) or speech-act (thanks cassirer); i'll enjoy your sentiments while i continue working on my fully funded phd with grant funding for pedagogical and curricular research myself, thanks.

[Anonymous No.15689767]

>>15689759
it's clear you don't enjoy anything lol

[Anonymous No.15689786]

>>15689767

oh sorry, allow me to correct my enjoyment of things for the taste of an anonymous disembodied voice on 4chan

[Anonymous No.15689790]

>>15689759
Where does Eliade mention performative utterances? Why are you associating speech acts with Cassirer? Have you read either?

What period of Cassirer are you working with? The myth-thinking parts of Symbolic Forms, if you are reading Eliade? Eliade is out of vogue nowadays though, what are you studying?

[Anonymous No.15689792]

>>15689786
I accept your apology

[Anonymous No.15689823]

>>15689790

mistake, meant to say austin from doing things with words. larger project is on the relationship between rhetoric, composing, and frame of mind (in the same vein of research as j. pennebaker on how thinking and writing reveal and alter our mental state in poorly understood ways)

[Anonymous No.15689920]

>>15687223
A lot of it is online
Try The Doctrine of Fascism, Fascism for the Million, Fascism: 100 Questions Asked and Answered, Six Starting Points by Primo de Rivera

[Anonymous No.15689967]

>>15689920

I think I will buy the actual books. God bless Oswlad Mosley, may he rest in peace.

[Anonymous No.15690053]

>>15689823
Sounds cool

[Anonymous No.15690677]

>>15682875
I am both.

[Anonymous No.15690715]

>>15689759
>eliade and cassirer

even less impressive than the husserl phd

[Anonymous No.15690722]

>>15689823
>mistake, meant to say austin from doing things with words.

dumbass retard

[Anonymous No.15691038]

>>15687223
https://www.reddit.com/r/The3rdPosition/comments/c871si/third_positionist_reading_list/

[Anonymous No.15691078]

>>15682863
literally who

[Anonymous No.15691189]

>>15683967
lol you got filtered cocksucker

[Anonymous No.15692178]

>>15691078
>>>/r/eddit

[Anonymous No.15692471]

>>15691189
>>15689091
Triggered.

[Anonymous No.15692493]

>>15685212
Yeah, he is likely the most important writer, poet, intellectual artist of the last 100+ years. No doubt. His industriousness alone is admirable, but coupled with his intellect and wit, he is one of the greatest minds of all time.

[Anonymous No.15692498]

>>15685240
yeah, nah. there's no way he was convince of demoliberal ideologies AFTER his torture and decades of slander.

[Anonymous No.15692527]

>>15688749
sit the next couple of plays out.

[Anonymous No.15692537]

>>15692498
Go ahead and beleive that if you need to anon, I know how important representation is for young fascists.

[Anonymous No.15692539]

>>15689437
congrats on at least six years of cultural marxist indoctrination.

[Anonymous No.15692550]

>>15692537
okay, child.

[Anonymous No.15692553]

>>15689437
CEO or racism here. Pound was fucking great.

[Anonymous No.15692612]

>>15692498
Reminds me of William Joyce (Lord Haw Haw)'s last radio broadcast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe-THrWu_4I

He's noticeably drunk because he knows it's over. Despite becoming a legal citizen of Germany in 1940, he was illegally hanged for "treason" in England in 1946 purely for revenge and as a spectacle for the public.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtUcGR0Og6c

WWII was a war of national interests and for the Allies that meant financial interests, nothing more. There was no nobility or idealism in going to war against the Axis, purely a balance of (economic) power thing. The real idealists were humiliated tortured and executed for daring to try to destroy international capital.

> A new thing, called the Conservative Party, rose in the nineteenth century, representing the pitifully faint effort of the landlords and the more patriotic people to suggest that the state had claims no less than those of the individual. This forlorn band of idealists wandered along through the drab decades of the nineteenth century, till Benjamin Disraeli found it and quite cleverly led it into the outer courts of the Palace of High Finance. There it waited until, at the turn of the century, the recreant Liberal, Joe Chamberlain, bought it lock, stock and barrel, leaders, members, and hangers-on. From that time onwards, the Conservative Party was only a more respectable, a more delicate, in fact, a nicer medium for the expression of acquisitive commercialism.

>Thus, Mr. Churchill in the early days of his ill-starred career, was able, with a clear conscience, to ask his experienced friends whether he should give, or sell, his services to the Liberal or the Conservative Party. It mattered little which. If a man were a Methodist and a foreign importer, he would naturally be a Liberal. If a fellow were a soldier, and a member of the Church of England, he would probably be a Conservative. Both would pay their respects to dividends from foreign investments, and both would probably shudder at the thought of being stopped by a self-contained Empire. On the whole, the Conservatives were a little cleaner, a little less greedy, than the Liberals. But they existed only as a sort of foil to the Liberal Policy. Whether in office or not, the poor Conservatives were the perpetual opposition. The ruthless financiers of the City of London did not wish it to appear that there was only one party in the state.

[Anonymous No.15692939]

>>15682863
I'm sorry but which writers are you speaking of? The only generally recognized one I know of is Pound, and even Pound isn't simply a fascist. He supported fascist causes for other reasons, he wasn't fundamentally a fascist. He was fundamentally an individualist and a Confucian (to my understanding). What I'm getting at is that just because Pound supported fascists doesn't mean that fascists can appreciate or understand his poetry any better than non-fascists. (Though they'll feel gratified by the anti-Semitic sections of the Cantos, but gratification isn't what Pound wanted his poems to give people.)

Other great writers were perhaps reactionary and elitist (like Eliot or Yeats) but not fascist. I do not think Stevens was a fascist either, but I'm not familiar with his politics. I'm sure you'll say DH Lawrence was a fascist because of some quotes off his Wikipedia article, but those are likely "pansies." He certainly entertained fascist thoughts but he was by no means a fascist thinker.

From what I hear, Joyce was certainly not a fascist, and Proust was also not a fascist at all. Kafka wasn't a fascist either. Thomas Mann was obviously not a fascist, either.

Which writers? Roy Campbell? Even he wasn't a serious fascist. He supported the fascists in Spain because he hated communism and their hatred of Christianity. I think you're confusing people with conservative, elitist, or reactionary notions with fascists.

Ultimately I think that few if any of the great writers of the 20th century would want to try fascism again at the current moment.

[Anonymous No.15692960]

>>15692939
>Ultimately I think that few if any of the great writers of the 20th century would want to try fascism again at the current moment.

Fascism will be vindicated. Current events are showing that democracy is untenable.

[Anonymous No.15693020]

>>15692960
"Fascism will be vindicated" on what time scale? If fascist regimes last a few hundred years then they'll be as vindicated as Republican governments/parliamentary monarchies are. Do you think fascist governments would really hold very long? How long?

[Anonymous No.15693050]

>>15693020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B5xS_qk0ko

[Anonymous No.15693077]

>>15693020
>How long?

Soon, and forever.

[Anonymous No.15693164]

>>15689192
Look the fuck up what a neoliberal is and then fucking kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.15693186]

When you think about the great American writers, Hemingway and Steinbeck, the last thing you think about is fascism.

[Anonymous No.15693315]

>>15693186
Steinkike is the most insufferably boring shit that most people will be forced to suffer through. What an atrocious pile of pseud horse shit.

If I had a time machine, I'd have joined McCarthy's riders, gone to Steinbeck's house, and shot him in the fucking face.

[Anonymous No.15693365]

>>15685240
According to some Jew. Imagine believing them.

[Anonymous No.15693922]

>>15692939
God, I can see the cogs in your head spinning like mad, smoking and rattling as they are about to break down due to the sheer mental gymnastics you're putting them through.

[Anonymous No.15693992]

>>15685884
Absolutely not.

[Anonymous No.15694272]

>>15682863
>inb4 muh Joyce

We all know Pound wrote Ulysses

[Anonymous No.15694656]

>>15693922
Explain how any of these writers but Pound were fascists?

Joyce, Yeats, Eliot, Mann, Proust, Kafka, Stevens.

How are these men fascists? Being on the right isn't equal to being a fascist. Hating whiggery doesn't make you a fascist.

[Anonymous No.15694677]

>>15694656
>Joyce
>Mann
> Kafka
Socialists
>Yeats
>Eliot
Conservative/Reactionary. Yeats was a bit of a fascist sympathizer early on. Don't know if maintained that position after Italy invaded Ethiopia.

[Anonymous No.15694682]

>>15694677
Oh Yeah, Proust was a centrist.

[Anonymous No.15694707]

>>15694656
>Joyce, Yeats, Eliot, Mann, Proust, Kafka, Stevens.
all were white, male, and implicit upholders of white supremacy and colonialism. that's the definition of fascist.

[Anonymous No.15694717]

>>15694677
>Mann
>Socialist

Uhh.....

[Anonymous No.15694741]

>>15694677
If you read Yeats's memoirs (at least in early life) he seems unable to wholeheartedly back any political movement. I don't think Yeats's politics is easily categorized, as he was also an actual politician and not a political theorist. What I'm getting at is that most writers are too original to just jump on a train conducted by someone else (like fascism). I think that Pound thought that fascism would do what he wanted it to because he was pretty megalomaniacal. When he lived in Rapallo he was putting up posters for the young Italian men with Confucian phrases about conducting yourself ethically and not placing the blame for your failings on others etc. From reading the Cantos, Confucius was clearly the thinker who shaped his political views the most. This combined with his economic thought lead him to throw his weight behind fascism. This doesn't "make him a fascist" in the way the fascists in this thread want him to be. Your favorite writer will not also follow your vague political attitudes. The question of "is Pound (or any great writer) a fascist" is utterly irrelevant to anybody with serious interest in their work, not because an author's political are unimportant, but because the question deals in a word as vague and arbitrary as "fascism." Seek to understand their politics by reading their work, don't seek to categorize them so you can claim them like a fucking child grabbing a doll. The fascists in this thread hate reading, and they hate all good writers no matter how much they read and pretend to enjoy the works of great writers on the internet.

[Anonymous No.15694766]

>>15694741
Ideological leanings are "vague" and "arbitrary" when it's concerning artists backing your ideological opposites; the slightest hint of a socialist take in a particular matter is taken as the crystal clear mark of that author being "one of yours". I'm sure you could convince yourself that even a guy like Céline was just "kidding" and "satirizing", and was a crypto-socialist at heart.

Come on. Who do you think you're fooling?

[Anonymous No.15694793]

>>15694741
>The fascists in this thread hate reading, and they hate all good writers no matter how much they read and pretend to enjoy the works of great writers on the internet.

>The fascists in this thread hate reading

>they hate all good writers no matter how much they read

>pretend to enjoy the works of great writers on the internet

[Anonymous No.15694815]

>>15694656
yeats was a full fascist. eliot was an hyper-fascist, his political reference is the action francaise, you learn it in your 2nd lesson on eliot in high school. joyce and wallace were ouright fascist sympathizers (joyce's fascism is well known, while wallace stated: "i'm pro-mussolini, personally").
mann was a conservative liberal, an old style republican in american terms.

proust is the most impolitical writer ever exited, today he would be completely indifferent to either the immigration crisis in europe or the george floyd protests in america.

about kafka, his most ""sociological"" work is the trial (this perspevtive is redictive though) grounded on the opposition between the individual and society, which is seen as the place where the individual loses his freedom/dignity. it surely is not a left wing oriented novel, i would say he would be just another conservative liberal, like mann.

so, out of 7 authors you mentioned only 2 were non-fascists. good job, retard.

[Anonymous No.15694821]

>>15694741
>b-believe me! That man doing a fascist salute on camera is not a fascist111!!!1!

[Anonymous No.15694897]

>>15694766
I'm not a socialist. Furthermore, I can't remember ever reading a poem or novel that made me immediately think that whoever wrote it must belong to "socialism" except Lob des Kommunismus by Brecht.

I haven't read Celine so I can't say.

I don't have a political identity because I don't need to have one at the moment. Maybe when the situation in my country calls for it I'll need to pick a side, and I'll try to choose wisely when it does happen. But I don't think the choice can be made wisely. Especially not now. Who are the fascists I'm supporting when I call myself a fascist? I don't see any competent public fascist figures in my country who have any influence at all. It doesn't matter what you call yourself if your politicians don't exist or are incompetent.

But back to the original point. I haven't seen anyone on the fascist side try to either seriously cut back on OP's original statement or acknowledge that it's flat out wrong. Why is this? I also haven't seen any arguments supporting that "all the important writers of the 20th century were fascists." It's all just memes. Also, I stand by what I say. What do you care that you can claim an author as belonging to your imagined camp? Just fucking read them. The OP could have tried to have a much better discussion about general trends in political thinking amongst important writers in the 20th century, but instead he posted something anybody who can read would know is wrong, and is something fascist larpers smugly assume is true. It's because this board is a safe space for fascist idiots because fascism is currently an impotent meme.

Back to back to the original point. List all of the important authors of the 20th century. It's clear as day they weren't all fascists.

[Anonymous No.15694922]

i love seeing how woke bugmen on here are freaking out after realizing that it was not exactely true what bill maher (their intellectual pole star) said them, that fascists are either sadistic schizos or dumb rednecks. and even more: all the best writers in the last century were fascist/anti-democratic.

[Anonymous No.15694950]

>>15694897
> I don't have a political identity because I don't need to have one at the moment.
EVERYTHING in the world is getting more and more politicized, to levels never previously seen in history and on multiple sides. if you have no political ideas, it means you are just being hypo-critical and passive.

[Anonymous No.15694956]

>>15694950
(im not him btw)

[Anonymous No.15694985]

>>15694897
>Lob des Kommunismus by Brecht

God, I hate that retard so much.

>I don't have a political identity because I don't need to have one at the moment. Maybe when the situation in my country calls for it I'll need to pick a side, and I'll try to choose wisely when it does happen. But I don't think the choice can be made wisely. Especially not now. Who are the fascists I'm supporting when I call myself a fascist? I don't see any competent public fascist figures in my country who have any influence at all. It doesn't matter what you call yourself if your politicians don't exist or are incompetent.

If you actually, wholeheartedly meant this, and didn't shitpost for the fun of it, I'm both impressed and horrified by how sophomoric your understanding of politics is.

>I haven't seen anyone on the fascist side try to either seriously cut back on OP's original statement or acknowledge that it's flat out wrong.

I don't agree with OP.

>What do you care that you can claim an author as belonging to your imagined camp?

I don't think it's as much about treating artists like football players as it is about combating the phenomenon that you embody yourself, the denial that an artist can be both good and represent an actually revolutionary, non-mainstream movement. Arguing that actually radical authors ( in the 20th century, this means pre-1933 fascists, while the international finance conglomerates and their useful idiots do all they can to preserve the status quo) were totally harboring lukewarm pseudo-humanistic views all along has started as a thing in post-WW2 academia, as a predictable step in the process of memory holing the undesirable elements of the past.

>The OP could have tried to have a much better discussion about general trends in political thinking amongst important writers in the 20th century, but instead he posted something anybody who can read would know is wrong, and is something fascist larpers smugly assume is true.

You simply don't understand memes.

>It's because this board is a safe space for fascist idiots because fascism is currently an impotent meme.

Ask me how I know you're a tourist.

[Anonymous No.15694999]

>>>15694656 (You)
>yeats was a full fascist.

Yeats was not "full" any political leaning. He was uncomfortable with such things.


>eliot was an hyper-fascist,

This seems like an enormous overstatement. Please cite his love of the action francaise as well. It would be interesting to read.

>joyce and wallace were ouright fascist sympathizers (joyce's fascism is well known, while wallace stated: "i'm pro-mussolini, personally").

Never read Joyce, but I believe I've heard almost the opposite and that his work is almost humanistic. I'm not surprised Stevens sympathized with fascists at all. Doesn't make him a fascist.

>proust is the most impolitical writer ever exited

Absolutely not true. In Search of Lost Time is full of political commentary in the form of it's depictions of interactions between classes.

>about kafka, his most ""sociological"" work is the trial (this perspevtive is redictive though)

Many of Kafka's works have sociological themes. The Penal Colony and The Castle are obvious examples of this.

>i would say he would be just another conservative liberal, like mann.

This really can't be deduced, and your extremely trite analysis of the trial and apparent ignorance of Kafka's other work implies you wouldn't be a good person to deduce it.

>so, out of 7 authors you mentioned only 2 were non-fascists.

If being a fascist is that reductive then yes. By that same logic they also probably belonged to ten different political labels, many of them disagreeing with fascist ideas.

[Anonymous No.15695012]

>>15694985
PS.: I'm not even a fascist, I'm just not as quick and uncritical about downing the kool-aid put in front of me as you tourists seem to be.

[Anonymous No.15695085]

>>15694985
>If you actually, wholeheartedly meant this, and didn't shitpost for the fun of it, I'm both impressed and horrified by how sophomoric your understanding of politics is.

This means nothing.

>I don't agree with OP.

Thank God.

>I don't think it's as much about treating artists like football players as it is about combating the phenomenon that you embody yourself, the denial that an artist can be both good and represent an actually revolutionary, non-mainstream movement. Arguing that actually radical authors ( in the 20th century, this means pre-1933 fascists, while the international finance conglomerates and their useful idiots do all they can to preserve the status quo) were totally harboring lukewarm pseudo-humanistic views all along has started as a thing in post-WW2 academia, as a predictable step in the process of memory holing the undesirable elements of the past.

That's a decent point and quite well said. I don't think any of their views were lukewarm. I think they cared much more about politics than almost anybody. I think the strength of their feelings gave them some trepidation before being capable of jumping in line with any group, though. Because their political beliefs come from wanting to deal with the situations and systems they were facing at the moment, attaching a political label to them and then attaching that label to yourself does not bring you closer to their perspective. The best way to get an understanding of "how they would feel" or "who they would support" comes from reading their most important works, then analysing the current situation with your altered eyes. Trying to see with the perspectives they bestow upon us with their art onto our current political situation is difficult, but it seems like the most honest way to digest their work politically, though it will lead to different results for different people. I'm trying to say that attaching any label like this to a great writer is utterly unproductive to getting at their politics in a way that's relevant to anything beyond arguments that generally boil down to semantics. Furthermore, I'll add that by the standards of some of these posters, I think I'd be a fascist as well.

>Ask me how I know you're a tourist

It's better not to be a "resident" of any internet "community."

[Anonymous No.15695092]

>>15694999
> Please cite his love of the action francaise as well
his adhesion to the action francaise's ideal tracks back to 1923 (probably even earlier), with his letter to maurras (the founder of AF) dating october the 4th.
> Dear Sir, I hope you will forgive my boldness in writing to you in connection with the English quarterly review, The Criterion. We wish to urge you to let us have some unpublished text by you for this review. Until now, I believe, your very remarkable work has remained unknown, or has even been suppressed, in England. Of this the sufficient cause is that the greater part of the literary press is controlled by Liberals, in effect by groups belonging to the political Left and almost openly republican. I would even say that the contemporary French writer who is best known to, and most appreciated by, London intellectuals is – André Gide. This will give you some idea of the present situation. It is this attitude that The Criterion wishes to reverse. Here, even the so-called Conservative papers lack boldness and profess rather indefinite opinions. Only The Criterion frankly proclaims a philosophy which ‘democrassery’ is bound to find reactionary, although, in our view, it is the only philosophy which offers the slightest hope of progress at the present time. I am certain that the Criterion group represents the body of opinion nearest to l’Action Française. There are, naturally, certain reservations to be made, because of the differing circumstances of the two nations; but mutatis mutandis, I think that the basis of our philosophy, an Aristotelian philosophy, is the same as yours. We wish therefore to establish friendly relations. In our April number, we propose to publish a long article about you by Charles Whibley, an eminent writer whose name is no doubt known to you. This article would, of course, be more effective if we could bring out some previously unpublished text by you in the same number. We could offer payment at the rate of 700 francs per 5,000 words – a fee not at all commensurate with the capital importance of such a contribution. The text should not greatly exceed the length indicated. I must add a practical qualification to the description I have given you of our review. The Criterion is not a review of a directly political character.We do not deal with political activity. We stand completely aloof from the futile games of the parties; we do not lend support to any government.We do not discuss politics.We do not seek elected representation.We are solely engaged in working out a general philosophy which will exert a gradual influence on politics, theology and literature. .... [1/2]

[Anonymous No.15695101]

>>15695092
Thanks

[Anonymous No.15695108]

>>15695092
> .... [2/2] The Criterion presents itself solely as a literary review. It follows, therefore, that if you do us the great honour of contributing to our review, your article should concern itself with general criticism, or rather literary criticism. In you, we salute a great literary critic as well as an eminent political authority. Hoping for a favourable reply, I assure you, Sir, of my great admiration and most respectful regards.
(the original letter is in french, this the translation in the valerie eliot 7voll. edition of his letters).

from the then onwards, he kept his collaboration with the action francaise and his intellectual milieu: not only maurras, but also lasserre etc.

[Anonymous No.15695119]

>>15695092
>Of this the sufficient cause is that the greater part of the literary press is controlled by Liberals, in effect by groups belonging to the political Left
> Here, even the so-called Conservative papers lack boldness and profess rather indefinite opinions

Not much has changed in a century huh

[Anonymous No.15695134]

>>15695119
Sadly yes, "Conservatism" is mostly a rump permitted to exist by neoliberals which is why we need fascism. Eliot tried to tell Kirk, Meyer, and Buckley this but we wound up with neocons anyway.

Luckily this LARP red scare is playing right into populism and nativism.

[Anonymous No.15695147]

>>15695085
I'm glad that we could find common ground on at least this matter, if not entirely.

I think it's worth noting that treating artists and various historical figures as football players for your team is hardly a phenomenon that only happens with fascists. I grew up in an ex-communist state; the historical books my parents learned from included a shit ton of ahistorical readings from a marxist standpoint, such as the revolt of Spartacus being a revolution of the proletariat against the bourgeois slave owners, medieval rebellions being a revolt against the bourgeois nobility, completely ignoring the reign of terror after the French revolution, just insufferable sanctimoniousness and readings that really stretched things to fit them to a premade narrative.

People above room temperature IQ here learned not to trust the mainstream media, ever. I think people who grew up in first world countries are generally too comfortable to care about such techniques being employed or haven't been put through experiences that redpill you on just how fickle the state, academia, law enforcement, and the media can be depending on who's in charge.

[Anonymous No.15695153]

>>15695147
*history books
*medieval rebellions being revolts against
*just insufferable sanctimoniousness in general

[Anonymous No.15695166]

>>15695119
yes. eliot and this letter in particular was one of the things which opened my eyes on our present day condition.

[Anonymous No.15695216]

>>15695147
It's true that it goes both ways. I was annoyed to see it happening in this thread in a specifically obnoxious way... That people were treating it as a foregone conclusion that these writers could easily be categorized as fascists.

I'll also say, as an aside, that I do think things need to change very fundamentally in my country (the USA) politically speaking. I just don't see fascism or these "isms" being THE way. I do think that learning about them could help the country, though. But I see a lot of the problems coming from the perspectives of the population at large and the way that our structure panders to that population in what seems to be an extremely poisonous way. The way this changes is probably through "working out a general philosophy which will exert a gradual influence on politics" as well as on culture.

[Anonymous No.15695282]

>>15695216
I think 4chan fascists are not fascists by choice, but by necessity, especially European ones. You'd have to be really masochistic to go along with the liberal status quo and simp for a system that denies and hates every aspect of your being if you're a white heterosexual male. You can watch neighborhoods get destroyed by subhuman vermin infesting them only so many times before you want them and the ones who made it possible for them to be there gone. That's besides the obvious, such as the death of healthy romance and male-female relations breaking down, unashamed media control and propaganda, the death of organic, unaffiliated art scenes in favor of industry plants and quota fillers, and so on.

Very few people on 4chan would feel the need to adopt otherwise outlandish ideologies like fascism if modernity didn't insist on forcing its diseased dick down their throats harder and harder by the minute. Extreme in-group bias and extreme negative bias against out-group communities become a question of survival and necessity rather than anything else when a community is backed into a corner like contemporary native European males are.

[Anonymous No.15696221]

>>15694897
>I'm not a socialist.

Wrong, and I stopped reading here.

[Anonymous No.15696225]

>>15694897
>this board is a safe space for fascist idiots
/lit/ is so full of communists it's painful. if you really believe this, you need your fucking head examined

[Anonymous No.15696433]

>>15690677
Based

[Anonymous No.15697314]

>>15690677
Neck ys

[Anonymous No.15697332]

>>15694897
>It's because this board is a safe space for fascist idiot

You're free to leave and I encourage it.

[Anonymous No.15697355]

>>15695282
Most of my fascist or fascist leaning friends are liberal by nature and very concerned with social justice. Many are religious and sick of a world where injustice can't be fought and we're stuck in a perpetual delusion that our crumbling society is "progressive" as judged by the retard coastal elites in their gated communities, with their business criminal families.

If you deny vigorous conservatism for long enough you get fascism. What's funny is that fascists didn't even start the race war, their opponents did by being such sore winners. Now the same people I know who begrudgingly aligned themselves with fascism to combat widespread immorality or late capitalism are less and less begrudging about it, and more and more see it as a complete necessity to defend against what's coming.

[Anonymous No.15697539]

>>15695282
At this point I'm wondering what you mean by fascists? In your case do the fascists support a dictatorship? Who is the dictator you hope for? I wonder because you can't just have a dictatorship without a dictator. Having Mussolini as a dictator is much different from having Hitler as a dictator etc. And there are people who would support one and not the other, so the same person would be supporting the fascists in one country but not the other, perhaps.

I believe that democracy is highly overrated by the mainstream for no good reason, and has destroyed politics in many ways in the US for example (not sure how it's playing out in other countries) but I also don't think that an immediate turning to the exact opposite would fix these issues and not create other despicable situations.

There are two things I'm getting at. First, supporting fascist causes in one political situation doesn't mean you support them in all situations or would support them in our current situation. Second, having fascist sympathies, (as I guess I do) does not make you a fascist. I agree with some of the negative aspects of fascism, but am highly diffident about the positive aspects. In certain ways I believe in elitism and the basic idea of an aristocracy, (that the best rule), but achieving a situation where the best rule is not straightforward, and when deciding if a dictatorship would bring us there I would have to consider who the dictator is.

The first thing I'm saying means that figuring out whether or not these writers were fascists is an irrelevant task. The second thing I'm saying means that I'm still not sure I'd call Eliot or Stevens fascists just because they saw a lot of the issues fascism tried to address.

[Anonymous No.15697625]

>>15682863
>Pound on getting out of the insane asylum apparently stated in his southern accent to journalists "Ladies and Gentlemen, I have been in a insane asylum".

Very based.

[Anonymous No.15698523]

>>15682863
Well that's because fascists or people with conservative values elevate aesthetics over anything and they right. The leftoids think ethics are more important than aesthetics and that's the reason a lot of their works is so boring and unappealing.

[Anonymous No.15698594]

>>15684010
>>15684113
"fascist" authors lists are always like

>conservative
>liberal
>liberal
>some racist schizo
>trad larper
>nationalist

[Anonymous No.15698606]

>>15698594
you should explain these nuances to antifa

[Anonymous No.15698650]

>>15698606
brb calling ceo of antifa

[Anonymous No.15698869]

>>15698523
And that's why leftoids will get the rope.

[Anonymous No.15699325]

>>15685163
Borges went to Chile and sucked the pinocock in order to get Luisa Bombal some 'gimmedats' literary award.
It was less of a political stance than a 'lets get my dirt-poor friend some shekels'
He even said that in hindsight it was a mistake to do so, since it cost him a lot of cred to do so and Luisa Bombal spent all that award money in booze and died of Cirrosis soon after.
You /lit/erally should read som Bombal literature also: is good enough to ponder the option of sucking up to a dictator in order to get her to write some more instead of watching her starve.