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/lit/ - Literature

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15657395 No.15657395 [Reply] [Original]

>zero bible verses that explain what hell is
>zero bible verses that explain who goes to hell
>whenever you see the word "hell" in an English translation, it's either from Sheol (meaning "grave"), Hades (that's a deity), Gehenna (Jerusalem's trash pit), and Tartarus (actually means "hell," but is only used for fallen angels)
funny that protestants get so horny about the Catholics making up the idea of purgatory when they too believe in the false concept of hell. in a twist of irony, the most well known denomination to get this right (JW) is a literal cult. defend yourselves

>> No.15657586

>>15657395
Cult is just a snarl-word used against small religious groups

>> No.15657612

>>15657395
Jesus preached about Hell. Besides, I know it exists, because I'm already in it.

>> No.15657628

>>15657395
The modern conception of Hell was invented by Dante, not by the Bible. Dante didn't write a "fan-fic" like faggots here tend to say. He wrote an original visionary work.

>> No.15657660

this is probably the best version of the bible to get if you’re interested in literary studies at all

>> No.15657668

>>15657586
which is why I used it. if I don't use it, I get fewer (You)'s
>>15657612
Jesus didn't preach about hell, he preached about Gehenna. also say hi to Lucifer for me
>>15657628
>one of the cornerstones of my religion was invented by a fanfic writer, and I'm okay with this
holy shit

>> No.15658191

>>15657660
It’s great, the pages are like tissue-paper though

>> No.15658199

>>15657668
1) Not my religion. 2) Dante wasn't a fan-fic writer. 3) And Hell isn't what you think.

>> No.15658227

>>15657612
"Hell" describes Jesus' mental state while he was in a coma between the crucifixion and the resurrection.

>> No.15658234

>>15658227
Jesus was actually an avatar of Vishnu and taught the same idea as the Upanishads, but because we are in the Kali Yuga, the spiritual insights he taught have largely been lost to modern Christianity and have been replaced with moralism and sentimentalism

>> No.15658263

>>15657395
What do you think Luke 13:28 was about? Or the parable of the net? "This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.". Obviously the word hell was adopted afterwards (as much as the words deus and god were themselves adopted from non-abrahamic origins to relay meaning to pagan audiences). Of course the specifics of hell can be debated and weren't static from the early church to christendom now, but the basic idea of an adterlife where the wicked were punished isn't unbiblical.

>> No.15658286

>>15657668
>Jesus didn't preach about hell, he preached about Gehenna
You’re missing the point. Jesus preached about what would happen to you after death if you did not believe in trust in him. That being, separation from him in heaven after death. It doesn’t matter what you call it. Eternal separation from God is hell no matter how you slice it.

>> No.15658416

Prove that any educated Christian believes in literal Hell, like a fiery dimension, or has ever done so. Christianity is not dualistic to begin with.

But that leads onto another point, general culture and folklore exists in addition to one's religion. Imagine the near-Heathen stuff non clergymen believed and practised in the Middle-ages. Only when overintellectualised and overly normative does some 'true Christian' exist, otherwise they believe in all sorts of apparent superstitions, forces, otherworldly creatures, rituals, magic, etc. depending on their culture.

>> No.15658430

>>15657395
Can't believe tradcaths and most prots actually believe in this soul bullshit.

>> No.15658457

>>15658430
>soul bullshit.
???

>> No.15658467

>>15658430
ok bugman

>> No.15658473

>>15658227
>>15658234
Morons

>> No.15658477

Oh, another religious thread in a literature board. What a fucking surprise.

>> No.15658481

Who exactly were the witnesses to the Harrowing of Hell? Or did someone decades later have a "vision" that that's what happened?

>> No.15658485

>>15658477
Where’s the religion board?

>> No.15658490

>>15658473
You are not a Christian.

>> No.15658491
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15658491

>>15658473

>> No.15658497

>>15658485
>>>/x/

>> No.15658518

>>15658490
I’m very Christian, and I’m getting baptized tomorrow!

Why are you so quick to attack brothers?

>> No.15658569

>>15657586
Cult is just the succession of the letters c, u, l, t; which doesn't mean n-[cult]

>> No.15658681

>>15658477
If the Bible isn't literature, then what do you propose it is?

>> No.15658725

>>15658518
Read the gospels, son. Christians don't call people morons. Apropos of the original topic of this thread: "Whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of HELL fire." (Matthew 5:22)

>> No.15658874

>>15658725
The context it to other brothers of Christ. The two I responded to obviously don’t have a pure belief of Christ

>> No.15658882

>>15658874
anon, there is neither Jew nor Gentile; we are all one in Christ. please be kind like Jesus was

>> No.15658895

>>15658874
You are not yet baptized and yet you dare to judge others? You are far from the kingdom of god.

>> No.15658979

Is there anywhere I can read how the discrepancies between Jesus and OT prophecy can be reconciled? I keep finding stuff on how he fulfilled 300 prophecies and mathematical improbability of that if it were just coincidence, but I don't know how they figure that probability and they fail to answer the prophecies he didn't fulfill.

>> No.15659031

The Bible speaks of the reality of hell in the same terms as the reality of heaven (Revelation 20:14–15; 21:1–2). In fact, Jesus spent more time warning people about the dangers of hell than He did in comforting them with the hope of heaven. The concept of a real, conscious, forever-and-ever existence in hell is just as biblical as a real, conscious, forever-and-ever existence in heaven. Trying to separate them is simply not possible from a biblical standpoint.

Despite the Bible’s clear teaching of both heaven and hell, it is not unusual for people to believe in the reality of heaven while rejecting the reality of hell. In part, this is due to wishful thinking. It’s easier to accept the idea of a “nice” afterlife, but damnation isn’t quite so appealing. This is the same mistake human beings often make when it comes to substance abuse, dangerous behaviors, and so forth. The assumption that we will get what we want overrides the unpleasant (but rational) view that things might not end well.

Rejection of the existence of hell can also be blamed on inaccurate assumptions about what hell is. Hell is frequently imagined as a burning wasteland, a dungeon full of cauldrons and pitchforks, or an underground city filled with ghosts and goblins. Popular depictions of hell often involve a flaming torture chamber or a spiritual jail where evil things reside—and where good things travel to battle evil. This version of hell does not exist. There is a real place called hell, but it is not the Dante’s Inferno image most people think of. Certain details about hell are given in the Bible, but those details do not match the popular myths.

The Bible actually gives very few particulars about hell. We know that it was originally intended for demonic spiritual beings, not people (Matthew 25:41). The experience of being in hell is compared to burning (Mark 9:43; 9:48; Matthew 18:9; Luke 16:24). At the same time, hell is compared to darkness (Matthew 22:13) and associated with intense grief (Matthew 8:12) and horror (Mark 9:44).

In short, the Bible tells us only what being in hell is “like”; it does not explicitly say what hell is or how exactly it functions. What the Bible does make clear is that hell is real, eternal, and to be avoided at all costs (Matthew 5:29–30).

>> No.15659037

The different terms used in the Bible for heaven and hell—sheol, hades, gehenna, the lake of fire, paradise, and Abraham’s bosom—are the subject of much debate and can be confusing.

The word paradise is used as a synonym for heaven (2 Corinthians 12:3–4; Revelation 2:7). When Jesus was dying on the cross and one of the thieves being crucified with Him asked Him for mercy, Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Jesus knew that His death was imminent and that He would soon be in heaven with His Father. Therefore, Jesus used paradise as a synonym for heaven, and the word has come to be associated with any place of ideal loveliness and delight.

Abraham’s bosom is referred to only once in the Bible—in the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19–31). Abraham’s bosom was used in the Talmud as a synonym for heaven. The image in the story is of Lazarus reclining at a table leaning on Abraham’s breast—as John leaned on Jesus’ breast at the Last Supper—at the heavenly banquet. The point of the story is that wicked men will see the righteous in a happy state, while they themselves are in torment, and that a “great gulf” that can never be spanned exists between them (Luke 16:26). Abraham’s bosom is obviously a place of peace, rest, and joy—in other words, paradise.

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word used to describe the realm of the dead is sheol. It simply means “the place of the dead” or “the place of departed souls/spirits.” The New Testament Greek equivalent to sheol is hades, which is also a general reference to “the place of the dead.” The Greek word gehenna is used in the New Testament for “hell” and is derived from the Hebrew word hinnom. Other Scriptures in the New Testament indicated that sheol/hades is a temporary place where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection. The souls of the righteous, at death, go directly into the presence of God—the part of sheol called “heaven,” “paradise,” or “Abraham’s bosom” (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23).

The lake of fire, mentioned only in Revelation 19:20 and 20:10, 14-15, is the final hell, the place of eternal punishment for all unrepentant rebels, both angelic and human (Matthew 25:41). It is described as a place of burning sulfur, and those in it experience eternal, unspeakable agony of an unrelenting nature (Luke 16:24; Mark 9:45-46). Those who have rejected Christ and are in the temporary abode of the dead in hades/sheol have the lake of fire as their final destination.

But those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life should have no fear of this terrible fate. By faith in Christ and His blood shed on the cross for our sins, we are destined to live eternally in the presence of God.

>> No.15659054

>>15659031
>In fact, Jesus spent more time warning people about the dangers of hell than He did in comforting them with the hope of heaven.
Absolutely false.

>> No.15659328

>>15658485
/b/

>> No.15660628

>>15657395
>he doesn't know Hades and Gehenna are both Hell, but Hades is pre-resurrection and ethereal in nature while Gehenna is increasingly painful where the damned have physical bodies to suffer in

>> No.15660940

>>15658263
>Of course the specifics of hell can be debated and weren't static from the early church to christendom now
God changed his mind?

>> No.15660992

>>15657395
*ahem*

Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

2 Samuel 22:6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me

Job 11:8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?

Job 26:6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalm 18:5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.

Psalm 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them

Psalm 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

Psalm 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.

Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Proverbs 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.

Proverbs 7:27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

Proverbs 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

Proverbs 15:11 Hell and destruction are before the Lord: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

Proverbs 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

Proverbs 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.

(cont)

>> No.15661002

>>15660992
Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Isaiah 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Isaiah 57:9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.

Ezekiel 31:16
I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

Ezekiel 31:17 They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.

Ezekiel 32:21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword

(cont)

>> No.15661016

>>15661002
Ezekiel 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.

Amos 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down

Jonah 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

Habakkuk 2:5 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

(cont)

>> No.15661019

>>15658416
Hell is real.

>> No.15661025

>>15658518
Congrats brother

>> No.15661031

>>15658725
Jesus is talking about brothers and sisters in Christ. Not nihilist morons.

>> No.15661032

>>15661016
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched

Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire

Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

(cont)

>> No.15661038

>>15661032
James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

>>15657395
You paying attention?
Not that it matters. You'll have plenty of time to acquaint yourself with the meaning behind all of these verses.

>> No.15661041

>>15661038
>You paying attention?
These people kill me. They watch some youtube video or something that tells them "the bible doesn't talk about hell" or "the bible was rewritten over and over and isn't reliable" or some bullshit, with no evidence at all, and they believe it and then go regurgitate it here. It's the same shit you'd see from fedora tippers a decade ago.

>> No.15661055

>>15661041
Ignorant reprobates. What else can you expect?

>> No.15661059

>>15658491
the guy in that ben garrison pic can't even beat the wimp. pathetic. name calling is based

>> No.15661070

>>15657395
>whenever you see the word "hell" in an English translation, it's either from Sheol (meaning "grave"), Hades (that's a deity), Gehenna (Jerusalem's trash pit), and Tartarus (actually means "hell," but is only used for fallen angels)
The Bible was written in multiple languages by people exposed to multiple cultures. These terms are borrowed from various contexts, but they refer to the same thing. For example, Psalm 16:10, written in Hebrew, says, "You shall not abandon my soul to Sheol," while Acts 2:27, written in Greek, restates, "You shall not abandon my soul to Hades." Hades and Sheol are therefore equivalent. Both refer to the grave, or death. Gehenna and Tartarus refer to a place of fire, which is elsewhere described as an eternal fire, or a lake of fire, or an outer darkness. The KJV conflates death and hell, and theologically, they're not that distinct. Eternal death is eternal hell, and eternal hell is eternal death.

>> No.15661169
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15661169

>>15658457
>>15658467

Not him but show me a verse in the Bible that explicitly states 1) you got a soul and 2) you get to go to heaven when you die if you're a good boy

The references to Sheol are murky at best. Jesus saying "my father's house has many rooms" probably refers to the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. All of Paul's letters seem to indicate that 1st century Christian's believed that believing in Jesus meant you sprang up out of the ground with a reformed body and got a special place in the Earthly Kingdom of Heaven. No indication whatsoever that your "soul" left your body then came back into a new one.

Jewish and Christian theologians worked Platonism into their religion using a few scant ambiguous lines of scripture. It's painfully obvious if you take a fresh looks at the Bible like OP did.

P.S. [find and replace ] Shoel [with] hell is not an argument and completely changes the context of the text.

>> No.15661210

>>15661169
>Not him but show me a verse in the Bible that explicitly states 1) you got a soul and
Matt. 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
>2) you get to go to heaven when you die if you're a good boy
This is a distortion of what Christians believe.

>> No.15662015

Matthew 25:41
Depart from me, you accursed, into that eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

https://www.catholic.com/bible-navigator/hell
If you click on the verses it gives the Catholic perspective and answers to some common objections.

https://www.catholic.com/bible-navigator
This should be useful for any other topics you are interested in.

>> No.15662056

>>15657395
Hades also meant the underworld, and it was the standard translation of Sheol in the Greek Old Testament.

>>15658263
Ah but that's about the final judgement when God will destroy all the wicked angels and sinners. It's not the later idea of Hell as a place you go immediately after death.

>> No.15662072

>>15662056
>Ah but that's about the final judgement when God will destroy all the wicked angels and sinners.
The reprobate go to hell for eternity after the judgment. No one is erased from existence.

>> No.15662086

>>15657395
what is hell in german?

>> No.15662107

>>15662086
Hölle

>> No.15662130

Jesus never mentions heaven or hell as a state after death. Jesus is talking about the apocalyptic end of the world which he thought was imminent and if you do not understand Isaiah Daniel and jewish apocalypticism in the 2nd temple period you cannot understand the teachings of jesus as they were ment to be understood. "The kingdom of god" is not heaven as a state after death

>> No.15662137

>>15662107
hell
bright {adj}
light {adj} [bright]
fair {adj} [of skin]
radiant {adj}
brightly {adv}
lucid {adj}
clear {adj} [bright]
radiantly {adv}
light-toned {adj} [color, shade]

hell is a nice place.

>> No.15662143

>>15662130
>If you can't understand the beliefs of the Jews which Jesus continually condemns over and over then you can't understand Jesus.

>> No.15662148

>>15660992
>>15661002
>>15661016
>>15661032
>>15661038
>Using the KJV which translates many different concepts as 'Hell'
You are working on many unexamined assumptions. Doing a google search for "Bible verses that mention hell" and copy and pasting from pastor Jimbob's website doesn't undo the need for exegesis. One example from your copypasta: Ezekiel 32:27

ESV translation
>And they do not lie with the mighty, the fallen from among the uncircumcised, who went down to Sheol with their weapons of war, whose swords were laid under their heads, and whose iniquities are upon their bones; for the terror of the mighty men was in the land of the living.

In context, the passage is clearly referring to death, Sheol simply means the grave or at most an inert underworld that holds the souls of the departed. The passage says their iniquities are upon their bones, clearly referring to death and the grave as the punishment of the oppressors. There is nothing to connect this to the later concept of eternal conscious torment.

>> No.15662176

>>15662072
People who end up in the lake of fire will be destroyed once their sin has been payed. The only beings who will suffer forever in hell will be the devil, his minions, and those who commit the eternal sin.

>> No.15662182

>>15662143
Do you think Jeremiah wasnt a jew because he condemns the jews around him? Or elijah or ezekiel or elisha or isaiah or ezra?

>> No.15662209

>>15658286
This is completely wrong. Jesus himself teaches the rich man that the way to get to heaven is to follow the commandments and love your neighbor and give money to the poor. This is from jesus's own mouth and a direct answer to the question of heaven.
Believing in jesus tp get your good boy reward after death was invented by Paul. Otherwise this is what jesus would have told the rich man when asked.

>> No.15662215

>>15662072
Just stating that doesn't make it true. It's actually a bit ambiguous, the lake of fire being eternal could easily refer to eternal destruction, compare it to the eternal destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah

2 Peter 2:6
>If by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly

Obviously cities of Sodom and Gomorrah don't exist anymore, they were destroyed. It's entirely possible the New Testament view is of the wicked being annihilated. But of course eternal torment is also possible.

>> No.15662233

>>15662176
>the eternal sin
What's that? Bracing for a stupid answer like blasphemy

>> No.15662252

>>15662209
Why do you think Jesus told the rich man to give away his wealth? Because Jesus knew where the man's heart really was, not because being rich in itself is sinful.

Read the Bible.

>> No.15662262

>>15662233
If you witness a powerful miracle done in the name of Christ, and call it the work of the devil, you will go to hell forever.

>> No.15662301

>>15662252
Because the rich man asked him how to get to heaven and thats the answer? I don't think jesus is a manipulative word twister with hidden agendas. Maybe you do but i dont. I believe when jesus is asked a question he answers truthfully

>> No.15662327

>>15662262
So is everyone immune to that sin because miracles dont happen? I mean whens the last time anyone witnessed a powerful miracle done in the name of christ? I certainly never have in my life

>> No.15662475

>>15662262
Give scriptural citations or gtfo

>> No.15662590

>>15662233
From the Catechism, specifically 1864.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6C.HTM

1864 "Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin." There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

>> No.15663021

>>15661031
That is incorrect. A few verses later:

>You have heard how it is said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies. Bless those who curse you. Do good to those who hate you. Pray for those who do you wrong and persecute you, so that you may be the children of your Father that is in heaven. For he makes his sun to arise on the evil and on the good, and sends his rain on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward should you have? Do not the publicans do the same? And if you are friendly to your brethren only, what singular thing are you doing? Do not the publicans do likewise? You must therefore be perfect, even as your Father who is in heaven is perfect. -- Matthew: 43-48

>> No.15663033

>>15662590
Fuckin knew it

>> No.15663037

>>15661059
You are not a Christian.

>> No.15663383

>>15662252
Jesus essentially taught not to have attachments, doubts.

>> No.15663433

>>15662327
No, everyone is not immune. There were many people in Jesus's day who witnessed Jesus do miracles, and they committed the eternal sin.

There will also be people in the future who will commit the eternal sin by witnessing powerful miracles of Christ, yet they will take the mark of the beast and will worship the beast despite the clear miraculous signs of God. Read Revelation.

>>15662475
Mark 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

There are other references I can provide if you are more interested.

>> No.15663444

>>15663433
>2000 years and counting
...k-k-keep waiting guys! Jesus is coming back any moment now!

>> No.15663447

>>15663433
"Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit" and "seeing a miracle of God and saying it comes from the Devil" aren't the same thing

>> No.15663451

>>15663433
Holy Spirit is stupid pederast, moron and dumbfuck.

>> No.15663484

>>15657628
The divine comedy builds on the “fictional” worlds created by the Bible and the Aeneid and is filled with characters Dante knew personally. How is this not a fan fic? But I’m with you, it’s a visionary work of art.

>> No.15663615

>>15662301
Read the Bible.

The man may have been righteous in his life, (and that is exactly why the man came to follow Jesus), but the man was lacking in one thing. There was one thing stopping the man from following Jesus. Jesus pierced straight into the man's heart and saw he was a slave to money. And Jesus said, you cannot serve two masters. You cannot serve both God and money.

Jesus said For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, will not perish but have eternal life.

>> No.15663660

>>15663021
>13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Jesus had plenty of salty words to give around if you actually read the Bible.

A fool is a fool, and the only way to wake someone up is to give them a good shake and pray to God for their soul.

>> No.15663664

>>15663447
Read the whole passage in Mark 3.

>> No.15664061

>>15663660
It appears you do not understand that verse at all.

>> No.15664092

>>15662252
A rich person cannot enter the kingdom of God. It's really that simple.

>> No.15664719

>>15664061
You think Jesus was nice to everyone? Read the passage where Jesus clears the temple with a whip and then get back to me.

>> No.15664810

>>15661059
>name calling is based
Never being taken seriously is based.

>> No.15664838

Doesnt the new testament say that human souls would be cast into tartarus and the flames prepared for the fallen angels

>> No.15664861

>>15658416
I dont think hell necessitates dualism

>> No.15664875

>>15661169
>show me a verse in the Bible that explicitly states 1) you got a soul
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of Godisquick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, andisa discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

>> No.15664972
File: 59 KB, 408x408, 1592609385408.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15664972

>>15662148
>esv
along with NIV, NWT, ASV, among other modern versions, are all new age corrupt, apostate versions. Within omitted, shortened and edited verses. What they do is change a word here and there, omit a verse here and there, and no one notices. Next revision, another changed word. Ultimately changing the meaning and corrupting scripture. A mere single link to insight on the subject, which has been common knowledge for some time now:
http://www.paulbenson.me/bible-corruption.html

>death, Sheol, grave, underworld
eh, sometimes? However, Jesus certainly, spoke of hell as in hell, so OP is refuted is he not?

>pastor Jimbob
Top notch bant. Very funny.

>> No.15665037

>>15663033
If you created a farm of ant sized peoples and provided for them everything that they should live happily and prosperously and required nothing outside of what you have given them, with the single purpose of their happiness, a testament to your glorious creative ability. Wouldn't a revolt against you be the biggest crime they could every commit?

>> No.15665093

>>15665037
Not if i also gave them more horrors than good things.
I'd kind of expect it.

>> No.15665150

>>15663660
>pray to God for their soul
Yes
>give them a good shake
Only if its a loving and respectable shake with a hope that they improve. However, I don't see who is convinced by posts like "Morons" from an anonymous online basket-weaver. Really, when was the last time you read a post that only contained "have sex" and you were immediately convinced of the opposing position? Its not very Christ-like, is all.

>> No.15665194

>>15665093
>you gave them
Maybe if you never gave them the freedom to willfully choose to follow your commandments, which result in them living under the best conditions possible.

>> No.15665201

>>15665037
This only works with Adam and Eve, and thus only applies today through inheritance of original sin, which iirc is based on the idea that a father's sperm (they didn't know about ovum, only sperm) passes some metaphysical essence into his offspring which carried sin with it, and so you could literally inherit your father's sin. Moderns just use sophistry to explain it. All of it seems to contradict free-will (you get to choose Good or Evil, but just to make things fun you were born with a predisposition for Evil, lol!)
Now, the world after Adam and Eve isn't at all like a happy ant farm, of course. Its much more like a livestock farm, where you get feed food everyday to be grateful for, and then slaughtered after a life of toil and suffering. Yeah, I wouldn't expect livestock to be too happy with their farmers if they understood what was up.

>> No.15665252

nrsv was here
all other translations can suck it
(kjv can still hang because most allusions in literature use its langage)

>> No.15665256

>>15664972
"Who are being saved" is the correct translation. That website is batshit insane.

>> No.15665259

>>15665201
>cynicism
the post
Are you even trying anon?

The original sin, is defying God's one and only commandment he had for Adam and Eve. Hence the first commandment out of the 10 is:
>I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
>why
God's ways are not our ways.

Therefor we can deduce, that since you start off with a false premise as a foundation, the rest of argument is equally false.

>> No.15665276

>>15665256
Speak for yourself reprobate.

>> No.15665315

>>15665276
It's what the Greek literally means.

>> No.15665327

>>15664972
Jesus never "spoke of hell as in Hell" because the New Testament is in Greek. You are just assuming the KJV using the word "Hell" to translate Gehenna, Hades, and Tartatos, means the original must refer to the concept of Hell you happen to believe in.

>> No.15665339

The NRSV is what the vast majority of biblical scholars use, so I’m going with whatever that says.

>> No.15665341

>>15665327
>Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

>> No.15665359

>>15665341
Just proving my point there

>> No.15665389

>>15657586
Traditionally yes, but now it is levied against any successful religion where people practice it seriously.
>dude they're a cult

>> No.15665417
File: 111 KB, 618x1000, 1586392286723.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15665417

*blows OP the fuck out of orbit*

https://youtube.com/watch?v=_FzUJl-wB1s

>> No.15665428

>>15665359
No. I successfully refuted your blasphemous 'point'.

>> No.15665451

>>15665339
Apart from the gender-cucked language, I find that the NRSV pretty much nails it every time. That's why I think RSV2CE is the best of all worlds.

>> No.15665463

Sheol is just a sort of neutral zone where you go in the corner and 'think about what you did'.

>> No.15665747

>>15665150
Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

Desiring to show his attainment, he said: "The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no relaization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received."

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.

"If nothing exists," inquired Dokuon, "where did this anger come from?"

Be grateful I'm not a violent person, otherwise believe me, I'd be bashing heads left and right.

>> No.15665833

>>15665417
the fuck??

>> No.15665895

>>15658234
based

>> No.15665965

>>15658725
Except is says gehenna of fire, "fire" being in the genetive case.

https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/5-22.htm

>>15661169
>P.S. [find and replace ] Shoel [with] hell is not an argument and completely changes the context of the text.
Hades is consitently translated into Sheol in historical Aramaic versions of NT scripture. It's largely understood that both pretty much equivalent concepts of the murky underworld as with the original Germanic Hel.

http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Matthew+16:18&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25

>> No.15666015

>>15665259
>The original sin, is defying God's one and only commandment he had for Adam and Eve
Yes, but the punishment of Adam and Eve's sin is taken out on their children.
>God's ways are not our ways.
"Listen and believe", huh?

>> No.15666076

>>15665965
>Except is says gehenna of fire, "fire" being in the genetive case.
A literal translation would be something like:

"And whoever says ‘Raca!’ shall be subject to fiery Gehenna."

>> No.15666086

>>15666015
By one man's sin (Adam) mankind is condemned. By one man's sin (Jesus) mankind is redeemed.

>listen and believe
Listen to your heart anon

>> No.15666088

>>15665339
>The NRSV is what the vast majority of biblical scholars use, so I’m going with whatever that says.
Unfortunately such thinking represents a fallacious appeal to authority and the only way any translation can be justly vouched for is by truthfully demonstrating it's superior general translation accuracy throughout the entirety of the text compared to other translations.

>> No.15666125

>>15666076
Not really since it's an noun and not an an adjective which both have their distinctive forms.

>> No.15666135

>>15657660
>gender-neutral "inclusive" language
No.

>> No.15666271

>>15666086
>inb4 hurr durr sins of the fathers.
Watch him completely miss the nuance of sin nature entering through Adam.

>> No.15666744

>>15658199
Then what is hell?

>> No.15666783

>>15666135
it’s literally the original intent of the text, English is too biased towards the male gender and therefore corrupts those intents

>> No.15666806

>>15666783
thats bs as certain puns (eg fisher of men) and psalms only work if using male pronouns

>> No.15666814

>>15666125
"τὴν γέενναν τοῦ πυρός" means the Gehenna characterized by fire, aka fiery Gehenna.

>> No.15666855

>>15666783
Wrong. "ἀδελφοὺς" literally means "brothers". When referring to brothers and sisters, "ἀδελφοὺς καὶ ἀδελφὰς" is used.

>> No.15667156

>>15666814
But there's nothing mentioning anything about a "characterization" there. I don't see what's wrong with the "gehenna of fire" other than possibly not being as aesthetically pleasing, but you can also consult with other translations of scripture of Syriac and the Vulgate.

http://dukhrana.com/peshitta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Matthew+5:22&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25

Ego autem dico vobis: quia omnis qui irascitur fratri suo, reus erit judicio. Qui autem dixerit fratri suo, raca: reus erit concilio. Qui autem dixerit, fatue: reus erit gehennæ ignis.

>> No.15667194

>>15666783
No you have it backwards as it's rather that the patriarchal culture of classical antiquity is biased toward grammatically masculine language and the NRSV committee even admitted to such even if for some reason they chose not to cohere with it.

>> No.15667213

>>15666855
There's also 'brethren' but if they wanted to be gender-neutral maybe they should have used 'siblings' instead.

>> No.15667270

>>15657395
>zero bible verses that explain who goes to hell
That point at least is false.
>Hades (that's a deity)
Hades is how the Greeks translated Sheol in the Septuagint.

>> No.15667278

And btw, the system of heaven, hell and purgatory were invented by Plato.

>> No.15667326

>>15667194
I get why they did it. They want to be 'inclusive' so as not to alienate contemporary female believers. It's a purely practical decision. As my only interest in the Bible is scholarly, I'd rather have a translation that I trust will be reflective of the original text. Apart from this gender-inclusive issue, I find the NRSV to be excellent overall.

>> No.15667353

>>15658725
The point is to not be angry. "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement." There's nothing bad about calling a fool a fool; it's like telling a drowning man he's drowning. The point is to not do so in a spirit of anger, but rather one of good intention (i.e., you are trying to show him the error of his ways; perhaps calling someone a fool isn't the best way, but the same can be applied for any other words of admonishment that may serve to wake someone up).

>> No.15667359

>>15660940
Not God, theology. The specifics of Hell aren't important. If you go there, you deserve to

>> No.15667370

>>15667353
I hope you like lakes of fire.

>> No.15667388

>a book with long, theological discourses in polished greek
>jesus was an illiterate manual labourer who spoke aramaic as his first language
You're reading a propaganda booklet either way

>> No.15667559

>>15667388
Ignore the theological discourses and just read the words of Jesus. He presents a very simple, coherent ethical philosophy that anyone can understand.

>> No.15667622

You're too worried about what Hell is and not worried about why Hell is

>> No.15667974
File: 57 KB, 805x453, Chesterton.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15667974

>>15657395
There is no coherent theology of a literal hell in the Bible where people are tortured for not believing in God.

Don't forget that God is likened to bread and wine, and His life-giving power is likened to water. So God is something to be experienced, like food is to be eaten. Religion is about bringing a person into contact with that Ultimate thing. The direct experience of God is truly incommunicable, but washes away all self-importance, so it seems like it's about morality, when it's often just about reality, and a level of maturity that only that experience of God can give.

So it's important to understand that hell is just basically zero. Paul says that "sin leads to death," not "to hell" because death, zero, hell etc. are basically the same. It's not where you go for never having sought God or never having known Him, hell, zero, or death is simply what you actually are without Him.

>> No.15668238

Is there any doctrine more annoying than Sola Scriptura? This thread is a prime example of why it fails.

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

>> No.15668360

>>15657395
Hades was used as a place and deity interchangeably. Kinda like saying ‘i’m sending you to mom’s/dad’s’

>> No.15668378

>>15668238
How the fuck did the authors know any of that? Sounds like they pulled it out of their fat asses.

>> No.15668407

>>15668378
You mean besides all of the Scripture verses and historical tradition and guidance of the Holy Spirit and public revelation?

>> No.15668410

>>15667974
Anon, do you have any texts that are along these lines theologically? I've read Orthodoxy and the New Testament, but am constantly riddle by doubt. I have felt, ever so briefly, the warm embrace and challenging confrontation of the divine, but I slip into a place of atheism and doubt almost immediately. I don't know if you came across this in conversation as a catachumen or came up with it yourself, but it's a profound, beautiful notion and definition of God.

>> No.15668548

>>15668407
The relevant verses from throughout the OT and NT do not exactly form a coherent doctrine. John Paul II & co were pretty active 'interpreters'.